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BiggerBoat posted:Seinfeld has aged really well for the most part.
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Sep 30, 2017 23:03
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Alhazred posted:And yet Jesse was one of the few characters Walter really cared about. Yes, the show really is a masterpiece. Lots of layers. Absolutely worth a second watch. There's a scene where Jane, jesses drug-addict girlfriend begs her father to let her go to treatment the next day and watching it now as a parent was really hard. Krysten Ritter was great in that role
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Sep 30, 2017 23:13
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Trauma Dog 3000 posted:honestly, people just like hating on popular media. It doesn't matter if it's a good criticism That's kind of how I take it too but am reluctant to say it because it sounds like...reverse snobbery or something. I'm aware of the tendency to hate on poo poo that becomes popular but I wouldn't put critiques of Seinfeld or Breaking Bad alongside legit criticism of crap like Two and a Half Men or The Big Bang Theory which have always sucked and whose popularity I never understood. The backlash feels different to me somehow if the show was popular but was never good. As I understand the intent of the thread, it's to isolate and single out show that were once considered good and were popular but haven't stood the test of time. BB and Seinfeld are fine. Not sure where to slot the ones I listed or poo poo like Friends because I never thought they were any good to start with and I'm not sure where to draw the line. It's like saying Three's Company hasn't "held up" when it was always garbage even though it was popular and somewhat of a cultural benchmark. I'd put MASH in the category of "not holding up" while still being a pretty good show. Hope that made sense.
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Sep 30, 2017 23:18
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kinda tangential to aging poorly but in general i give most shows a bit of wiggle room for comedic and/or dramatic exaggeration, like actors ridiculously playing up their reaction to something not being a real reflection of how we're meant to perceive them as a person from our perspective as the audience - at least so long as the show's not genuinely trying to make a serious point about something lovely even shows like fraiser, which have aged somewhat but not as poorly as most, have kelsey grammer marching around and explosively berating friends and family over tedious matters and if we took that completely straight we'd infer that he'd be absolutely horrible to deal with day-to-day since he's so consistently, unambiguously abusive but since these reactions are all exaggerated for comedic effect the show's really just conveying that fraiser is sometimes a chore to deal with but it's no biggie because his friends, family and acquaintances still love him; seinfeld was one of the first shows to admit everyone's an rear end in a top hat and none of their over-the-top reactions to anything were just exaggerations for comedic effect and boy did a lot of people hate that finale, i remember newspaper articles saying it was an outright insult to audiences to paint the cast as such villains since we've enjoyed their antics on such a light level for all these years
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Oct 1, 2017 01:18
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Keep in mind with Breaking Bad many of Walt’s problems are unexpected consequences of his previous solutions.
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Oct 1, 2017 01:33
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Aesop Poprock posted:Holy poo poo he legitimately is Ugh.  I've never seen The IT Crowd, but I have enjoyed other Linehan shows, and it saddens me to think that Linehan is the kind of pseudo-progressive creep who thinks men have any business lecturing women on misogyny and feminism, or that they have any business "protecting" the delicate flower of "real women" from the fearsome trans menace. In my capacity as a "woman born woman", I would rather be in the company of a thousand trans women than one over-invested man who thinks I or anyone else wants and needs his protection. maybe not literally a thousand, I'm not good at crowds Anyway, just needed to get that off my chest. I wish I could think of an on-topic post, but I can't think of one that hasn't been said already.
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Oct 1, 2017 03:06
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The fact that any of us feel passionately about these shows, good or bad - is a good indicator of their quality. No one loving cares about the motives or characters of Two & a Half Men or NCIS. Although I'll fight the guy IRL who disses Friends. That writing was tight and the comic timing like a Swiss watch.
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Oct 1, 2017 03:32
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I remember liking the first few seasons of NCIS. Not in any kind of critical way, but it was inoffensive and sometimes that's all I'm looking for.
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Oct 1, 2017 05:10
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Ein cooler Typ posted:Elaine was one of the main cast and she was Hispanic "Her ethnicity is incorrectly assumed to be Hispanic in 'The Wizard'."
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Oct 1, 2017 05:25
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This episode had a pretty short shelf life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEtjaZ8ZuNU
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Oct 1, 2017 20:01
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There's an interesting early Cheers episode that provides a lot of insight into LGBT acceptance in the early '80s. The guys in the bar find out that two of the guys sitting in there are a gay couple, so they spend most of the episode trying to figure out who the two offending gay guys to be, all the while trying to persuade Sam to kick them out. To his credit, Sam doesn't really give a poo poo and is pretty much of the opinion that a customer is a customer. It's finally revealed at the end of the episode that the guys the bar patrons thought were gay are actually straight, and two of the patrons who had joined the gaggle of "real men" accusing each other of being gay were the couple they so feared. They were just average guys who blended into the rest of the bar crowd, but it was a bit too much for Cheers regulars to handle in 1983. I don't know that I would necessarily call it dated, because even though there was a lot of casual stereotyping of gay men, the actual message of the episode - that gay people are normal, everyday folks - was fairly forward-looking for its time.
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Oct 1, 2017 20:41
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Krispy Wafer posted:
It was a fun show about a fake New York that had three black people in it.
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Oct 2, 2017 02:33
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Tater Love 
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Is there a show about New York that isn't about a fake New York, though?
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Oct 2, 2017 02:35
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Girls on HBO
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Oct 2, 2017 02:48
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zakharov posted:It was a fun show about a fake New York that had three black people in it. https://youtu.be/oUc0vbSlanM
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Oct 2, 2017 03:00
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Is there a show about New York that isn't about a fake New York, though?
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Oct 2, 2017 04:03
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Mu Zeta posted:Girls on HBO This is probably the best answer which is also why people hate it so much. If you're talking about rich people at least Aesop Poprock has a new favorite as of 06:31 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 06:28
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Woke Lena Dunham forgot that POCs very much live in New York and that they don't even have to be filthy poors! Maybe she was just preemptively getting revenge on that meanie, fit, rich black jock who was too busy with his phone to gently caress her.
Sarcopenia has a new favorite as of 09:37 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 09:32
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Sarcopenia posted:Woke Lena Dunham forgot that POCs very much live in New York and that they don't even have to be filthy poors! Maybe she was just preemptively getting revenge on that meanie, fit, rich black jock who was too busy with his phone to gently caress her. hey now that's not true, there was that episode where Donald Glover was a black conservative who called Lena Dunham a racist for assuming he must be a liberal because he's black!
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Oct 2, 2017 10:53
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Alaois posted:hey now that's not true, there was that episode where Donald Glover was a black conservative who called Lena Dunham a racist for assuming he must be a liberal because he's black! I kind of liked that one because she gets her rear end handed to her for assuming things because of his race. Jessica Williams was a nothing character in one season.
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Oct 2, 2017 11:23
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Lord Hydronium posted:Fringe was about two fake New Yorks. I thought it was fake Bostons? Fake edit: I mean, obviously they're entire fake worlds, so fake New Yorks exist, too, but I think ti was set in and around Boston.
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Oct 2, 2017 19:28
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They constantly showed shots of the statue of liberty on Fringe so a fair bit of it took place in New York City
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Oct 2, 2017 19:41
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:There's an interesting early Cheers episode that provides a lot of insight into LGBT acceptance in the early '80s. The guys in the bar find out that two of the guys sitting in there are a gay couple, so they spend most of the episode trying to figure out who the two offending gay guys to be, all the while trying to persuade Sam to kick them out. To his credit, Sam doesn't really give a poo poo and is pretty much of the opinion that a customer is a customer. Also Sammy basically told the regulars at Cheers that if they were going to do a "it's them or us" thing then they weren't welcome in his bar. That may have been the same episode he was supporting his catcher (heh) friend who came out of the closet.
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Oct 2, 2017 19:58
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:There's an interesting early Cheers episode that provides a lot of insight into LGBT acceptance in the early '80s. The guys in the bar find out that two of the guys sitting in there are a gay couple, so they spend most of the episode trying to figure out who the two offending gay guys to be, all the while trying to persuade Sam to kick them out. To his credit, Sam doesn't really give a poo poo and is pretty much of the opinion that a customer is a customer. yea a lot of old tv around that time has at least one moment of 'actually it's very normal for an entire bar to demand the gays be kicked out for the crime of having a beer while gay' but almost always countered it with 'but the cool guy main character we're supposed to like tells them to chill out and we learn a gay guy can be a normal guy like everyone else'. Like, you could write pages about how the whole 'gay vs normal guy' thing is absurd and still regressive and how today 'kick the gay guys out' wouldn't be something the protagonists would ever rally behind at all, but it was a really good time capsule of the seeds of gay acceptance forming and they're genuinely interesting episodes to see from that perspective. It was clearly meant a s a pro-acceptance thing but it was still so heavily framed in the language of 'real men' and all just due to the time period. That kinda stuff can be fun to watch the edges of progressive views bucking the norms and all.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:08
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I've been watching Yes, Minister and in many way's it's aged incredibly well. It's from the 1980s but it had an episode about a Big Brother style database and it was amazing how similar it was to discussions around privacy and security around the time of the Snowden leaks and still now. However every now and then it has a drunk driving scene that's treated as funny and just a bit cheeky. Obviously that's something that was acceptable back then it just stands out all the more for how ahead of its time so many of its episodes are.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:51
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Sarcopenia posted:Woke Lena Dunham forgot that POCs very much live in New York and that they don't even have to be filthy poors! Maybe she was just preemptively getting revenge on that meanie, fit, rich black jock who was too busy with his phone to gently caress her. My aunt and her boyfriend are pretty rich and live in Manhattan and any time I've visited and hung out with them and their friends I've never seen a single black person in their social groups so it's probably fairly accurate
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Oct 2, 2017 21:13
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EmmyOk posted:However every now and then it has a drunk driving scene that's treated as funny and just a bit cheeky. Obviously that's something that was acceptable back then it just stands out all the more for how ahead of its time so many of its episodes are. I don't know if it's possible to fully conceptualize how accepted drunk driving was. MADD (Mother's Against Drunk Driving) was considered kind of radical at first. TV shows don't reflect it much because they were so prudish to begin with, but so many movies had characters who couldn't have gotten home without driving drunk. I'm afraid to look up when drunk driving was considered something different than say, reckless driving.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:38
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EmmyOk posted:I've been watching Yes, Minister and in many way's it's aged incredibly well. It's from the 1980s but it had an episode about a Big Brother style database and it was amazing how similar it was to discussions around privacy and security around the time of the Snowden leaks and still now. However every now and then it has a drunk driving scene that's treated as funny and just a bit cheeky. Obviously that's something that was acceptable back then it just stands out all the more for how ahead of its time so many of its episodes are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVYqB0uTKlE
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Oct 3, 2017 00:05
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EmmyOk posted:I've been watching Yes, Minister and in many way's it's aged incredibly well. It's from the 1980s but it had an episode about a Big Brother style database and it was amazing how similar it was to discussions around privacy and security around the time of the Snowden leaks and still now. However every now and then it has a drunk driving scene that's treated as funny and just a bit cheeky. Obviously that's something that was acceptable back then it just stands out all the more for how ahead of its time so many of its episodes are.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:47
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Tiggum posted:I'm not really sure that's changed all that much. I don't think it's a thing in general anymore but maybe it's more accepted where you're from. Here there are some very rural places where it's seen as more acceptable but for the most part it's seen as fairly terrible. However it has definitely disappeared as a thing from television. I'd be very surprised to see it on a show and not treated as an abjectly terrible thing in a drama.
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Oct 3, 2017 01:03
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Everyone in rural pennsylvania has a DUI conviction
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Oct 3, 2017 01:30
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sexpig by night posted:Like, you could write pages about how the whole 'gay vs normal guy' thing is absurd and still regressive and how today 'kick the gay guys out' wouldn't be something the protagonists would ever rally behind at all, but it was a really good time capsule of the seeds of gay acceptance forming and they're genuinely interesting episodes to see from that perspective. It was clearly meant a s a pro-acceptance thing but it was still so heavily framed in the language of 'real men' and all just due to the time period. That kinda stuff can be fun to watch the edges of progressive views bucking the norms and all. Wikipedia has a list of 1970s American shows that dealt with gay topics. Some of them are really cringey. The first All in the Family Episode mentioned, Judging Books by Covers, is a landmark in how it handled gay characters. Here is a good summary of the episode.
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Oct 3, 2017 02:12
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Dr. Video Games 0081 posted:Everyone in rural pennsylvania has a DUI conviction I have never been convicted
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Oct 3, 2017 04:41
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Aesop Poprock posted:My aunt and her boyfriend are pretty rich and live in Manhattan and any time I've visited and hung out with them and their friends I've never seen a single black person in their social groups so it's probably fairly accurate Maybe they think you'll embarrass them.
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Oct 3, 2017 04:43
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They can't get from point a to point b without going to jail in between!
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Oct 3, 2017 05:46
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Chrpno posted:This episode had a pretty short shelf life  ', not a good joke but still) if you removed the blackface but left the guy with the white makeup.
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Oct 3, 2017 08:53
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EmmyOk posted:I don't think it's a thing in general anymore but maybe it's more accepted where you're from. Here there are some very rural places where it's seen as more acceptable but for the most part it's seen as fairly terrible. However it has definitely disappeared as a thing from television. I'd be very surprised to see it on a show and not treated as an abjectly terrible thing in a drama. In Britain, the first anti-drink driving advertisement aired in 1964, but I don't think they really became the often-disturbing slow-mo-heavy productions we all dread seeing until the 1980s and the most famous public information films which came out around the time Yes, Minister/Prime Minister aired were more likely to be things like Apaches or Dark and Lonely Water, which were more focused on general safety for children (may not be completely right on that, though).
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Oct 3, 2017 09:49
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Aesop Poprock posted:My aunt and her boyfriend are pretty rich and live in Manhattan and any time I've visited and hung out with them and their friends I've never seen a single black person in their social groups so it's probably fairly accurate How old are they?
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Oct 3, 2017 10:36
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Wheat Loaf posted:In Britain, the first anti-drink driving advertisement aired in 1964, but I don't think they really became the often-disturbing slow-mo-heavy productions we all dread seeing until the 1980s and the most famous public information films which came out around the time Yes, Minister/Prime Minister aired were more likely to be things like Apaches or Dark and Lonely Water, which were more focused on general safety for children (may not be completely right on that, though). To be honest if more DD PSAs were like Apaches or Lonely Water they might be even more effective.
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Oct 3, 2017 11:44
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Croccers posted:I liked the part where even the audience knew it was bad idea. You even still could of had the same joke ('lol MJ chnaged colour The irony is that they were a bunch of Indian dudes in blackface.
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Oct 3, 2017 12:44
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