|
captainblastum posted:To be clear, I'm not in any way saying that people shouldn't be able to hunt, but "I want to do this" and "I must do this or I will starve to death" are very different things. "People need to hunt to live" is not a truthful reason to oppose gun control. Okay let's just skip to the end of a tedious back and forth: if it were demonstrated that there are in fact some people in the United States who need to be able to hunt in order to not go hungry, would you allow that as a concession that they should be allowed to own guns and hunt, or would you argue that they should be relocated to a place where they would no longer need hunt for food (and instead struggle to make rent because the urban housing market is hosed)?
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 05:58 |
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Okay let's just skip to the end of a tedious back and forth: if it were demonstrated that there are in fact some people in the United States who need to be able to hunt in order to not go hungry, would you allow that as a concession that they should be allowed to own guns and hunt, or would you argue that they should be relocated to a place where they would no longer need hunt for food (and instead struggle to make rent because the urban housing market is hosed)? Or third option, some way of making sure they get fed where they are via food subsidies or direct government food assistance. As a bonus, a nationwide anti-hunger program could target all sorts of people and not just hunters. Plus enable hunters not to die if they are injured or unable to hunt.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:34
|
|
|
Sure, and national healthcare would be awesome too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:35
|
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Sure, and national healthcare would be awesome too. Yeah but between a national gun ban and a national anti-hunger program, the anti-hunger program is far more politicially feasible. If politics change enough we're honestly worried about poor hunters starving to death because of gun laws, we'll probably be able to squeeze through food assistance too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:37
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:Or third option, some way of making sure they get fed where they are via food subsidies or direct government food assistance. i've been looking for statistics on subsistence hunting since i'd like to know as well how common it is, and one of the first things i've noticed is that especially in alaska, subsistence hunting correlates strongly with being way the gently caress out in the wilderness. the problem there isn't primarily poverty, but literal distance from civilization. you could have a basic universal income and people in those communities would still hunt because the next walmart isn't exactly around the corner. another thing is tribal culture and native communities, where hunting is both common for, again, remoteness reasons, but also part of traditional identity. basically i'd be okay with giving hunting and weapons permits to those communities and just banning anyone who does not qualify as a subsistence hunter from owning guns.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:39
|
|
|
botany posted:i've been looking for statistics on subsistence hunting since i'd like to know as well how common it is, and one of the first things i've noticed is that especially in alaska, subsistence hunting correlates strongly with being way the gently caress out in the wilderness. the problem there isn't primarily poverty, but literal distance from civilization. you could have a basic universal income and people in those communities would still hunt because the next walmart isn't exactly around the corner. Fresh venison is much tastier than tinned beef.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
as a compromise maybe hide canned meats and other non-perishables out in the wilderness and the poor can search for them easter-egg-hunt style. so no deer get shot but the poor still have to hustle a bit
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:41
|
|
|
BarbarianElephant posted:Fresh venison is much tastier than tinned beef. ... and?
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:42
|
|
|
Calibanibal posted:Just leave the deer alone g*ddamn. Just out in the woods eating sticks and salt or w/e. Leave em be I mean, more humane to painlessly kill bambi's mom with guns than for her to slowly starve to death from overpopulation
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:46
|
|
|
botany posted:... and? It's healthier?
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:49
|
|
|
C2C - 2.0 posted:It's healthier? no i mean, how does that have anything to do with what i said?
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:I mean, more humane to painlessly kill bambi's mom with guns than for her to slowly starve to death from overpopulation Unless we're willing to pull up stakes and do everything in our power to return wildlife to it's pre-human balance of predators taking care of deer it's more than just the humane way to manage population. It's truly a necessity. Yeah yeah bambi's cute, whatever. Real deer with unmanaged populations are an ecological disaster. They're not called hoofed rats for the fun of it. They absolutely will over populate and destroy things around them if unmanaged.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:53
|
|
|
botany posted:no i mean, how does that have anything to do with what i said? I wasn't bagging on you; just adding another pro-venison point
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
Ban guns, restore wild wolf populations, lift gun ban to protect from the wolves
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 20:04
|
|
|
Calibanibal posted:as a compromise maybe hide canned meats and other non-perishables out in the wilderness and the poor can search for them easter-egg-hunt style. so no deer get shot but the poor still have to hustle a bit Thought you were supposed to meme, not give good suggestions.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 20:14
|
|
|
botany posted:i've been looking for statistics on subsistence hunting since i'd like to know as well how common it is, and one of the first things i've noticed is that especially in alaska, subsistence hunting correlates strongly with being way the gently caress out in the wilderness. the problem there isn't primarily poverty, but literal distance from civilization. you could have a basic universal income and people in those communities would still hunt because the next walmart isn't exactly around the corner. i thought this would've been real obvious to anyone arguing about this, which is why the "food subsidies and relief" ideas being pushed around have left me scratching my head  like what's the plan for those people in the "all guns are banned" scenario? literal spam delivered by usps?
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 20:18
|
|
|
Rastor posted:Ban guns, restore wild wolf populations, lift gun ban to protect from the wolves better yet market all the houses most exposed to wolf predation as primo real estate for very wealthy people and let nature take its course
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 20:21
|
|
|
Syenite posted:better yet market all the houses most exposed to wolf predation as primo real estate for very wealthy people and let nature take its course Acceptable so long as they can't own dogs.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 20:51
|
|
|
Mustached Demon posted:Acceptable so long as they can't own dogs. The rich will breed Maine Coons into some kind of giant home defense cat.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 20:58
|
|
|
Not understanding why rural poor would often rather hunt and fish for protein sources other than literally be given food or money for food, is pretty dumb politically.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:02
|
|
|
BrandorKP posted:Not understanding why rural poor would often rather hunt and fish for protein sources othan than literally be given food or money for food, is pretty dumb politically. I can also understand why a coal mining community wants to reopen the coal mine rather than receive public assistance. Doesn't make it sound policy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:I can also understand why a coal mining community wants to reopen the coal mine rather than receive public assistance. Doesn't make it sound policy. except hunting is sound policy cause there is wildlife that needs its population controlled thanks to us nearly wiping out their natural predators?
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/jbendery/status/915300694399307777
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
Nasgate posted:The rich will breed Maine Coons into some kind of giant home defense cat. I've heard the argument that the bourgeois are good for us proles because without them there would be no drive to create luxury brands and expensive consumables. The idea that the 1% is good for us because iPhones makes me want to vomit. But if we get new kittehs...
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:I can also understand why a coal mining community wants to reopen the coal mine rather than receive public assistance. Doesn't make it sound policy. Apparently it makes pretty good campaign policy though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
BrandorKP posted:Not understanding why rural poor would often rather hunt and fish for protein sources other than literally be given food or money for food, is pretty dumb politically. Let them hunt for as much food as they want As long as they do so responsibly And as long as they don't pretend they need 100 round drum magazine bumpfire AR15s with dual sights and a suppressor to shoot a deer.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
Condiv posted:except hunting is sound policy cause there is wildlife that needs its population controlled thanks to us nearly wiping out their natural predators? Subsistence hunting doesn't achieve population control unless we're going to force more people to hunt to survive. Meanwhile, those stuck in a "hunt or die" situation are at extreme risk to climate change, injury or anything that disrupts their ability to hunt for food in the long term.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:12
|
|
|
You liberal freaks will never take away our right to hunt and fish. And its absolutely not about the money.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:12
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:Subsistence hunting doesn't achieve population control unless we're going to force more people to hunt to survive. Meanwhile, those stuck in a "hunt or die" situation are at extreme risk to climate change, injury or anything that disrupts their ability to hunt for food in the long term. it doesn't wholly achieve it no. but it helps it. dunno why you're trying so hard to claim it's bad and that somehow we should just ship these people food somehow. i mean i'm not against giving food aid to rural people, but at the same time, banning them from hunting helps nothing and instead makes a problem we already have to deal with (population control) even harder to deal with
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:19
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:You liberal freaks will never take away our right to hunt and fish. And its absolutely not about the money. Oh bullshit no one has loving made it into a political dick-waving contest
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:20
|
|
|
Calibanibal posted:Just leave the deer alone g*ddamn. Just out in the woods eating sticks and salt or w/e. Leave em be I know you're shitposting but this is stupid and you are stupid.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
botany posted:i've been looking for statistics on subsistence hunting since i'd like to know as well how common it is, and one of the first things i've noticed is that especially in alaska, subsistence hunting correlates strongly with being way the gently caress out in the wilderness. the problem there isn't primarily poverty, but literal distance from civilization. you could have a basic universal income and people in those communities would still hunt because the next walmart isn't exactly around the corner. For exactly the same reason, those people are very rare and few in number, because we're talking mostly about very remote places with extremely low population density. Alaska has the lowest population density of any US state, and the 3rd lowest total population. Not only that, but half that population lives in the Anchorage Metropolitan Area; they're not exactly in deserted wastelands. Sure, if you're living in someplace like the Borough of Yakutay, which is a 10,000 square mile county with one city in it, you can't just run down to the grocery store. But on the flip side, there's only six hundred people in that entire area. It's a place the size of Massachusetts with a total population comparable to the number of people killed or injured in Sunday night's mass shooting. Or how about North Slope Borough, Alaska, a county the size of Utah with a total population of roughly 9,500 - which is less than the number of people killed by guns (not including suicides) so far in 2017. Sure, there are people whose lifestyle may depend on hunting. But there are people whose lifestyle depends on having a car, and that sure doesn't stop the government from yanking their license if they get into trouble. Actually, the same goes for guns. Alaska is one of the more generous states regarding gun rights, but it still bans felons from owning a gun for 10 years after their sentence (including probation) is complete. If Alaskans literally couldn't survive without guns, I'd expect to see a hardship exception or something for that law.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:23
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/PittsburghPG/status/915307960536109059
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:26
|
|
|
Lemming posted:Reducing easy access to a popular, easy suicide method in South Korea significantly reduced overall suicides almost immediately, as an example of how effective it can be Oh, they reduced access to indoor fans?
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:26
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Sure, there are people whose lifestyle may depend on hunting. But there are people whose lifestyle depends on having a car, and that sure doesn't stop the government from yanking their license if they get into trouble. Actually, the same goes for guns. Alaska is one of the more generous states regarding gun rights, but it still bans felons from owning a gun for 10 years after their sentence (including probation) is complete. If Alaskans literally couldn't survive without guns, I'd expect to see a hardship exception or something for that law. These guys need hunting guns, not handguns or military-style guns. You can ban them without banning hunting guns.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:28
|
|
|
BarbarianElephant posted:These guys need hunting guns, not handguns or military-style guns. You can ban them without banning hunting guns. Stop being a stereotype thanks in advance. Hunting gun isn't a thing. Although, I guess we could MAKE it a thing... 
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:30
|
|
|
Nevvy Z posted:Stop being a stereotype thanks in advance. Is your complaint they said "military style" instead of some specific term you'd prefer? Edit: oh lol it was about hunting gun instead of something else
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:31
|
|
|
So.... a prominent pro-life Republican in congress had an affair and then asked his mistress to get an abortion? lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:33
|
|
|
I'll admit its kinda hosed up people can buy guns with bullets that can only kill people and not aminals.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 05:58 |
|
|
Rigel posted:So.... a prominent pro-life Republican in congress had an affair and then asked his mistress to get an abortion? That's ok, he didn't get the abortion so is her sin not his.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2017 21:34
|
|