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sanchez posted:Apparently some Bolts have an issue where the seat padding is wrong causing crippling pain for drivers. How do you gently caress up seat padding. 
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Oct 3, 2017 17:09
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:I dont know about that - the poo poo he promises does tend to be delivered. sanchez posted:Apparently some Bolts have an issue where the seat padding is wrong causing crippling pain for drivers. How do you gently caress up seat padding.
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Oct 3, 2017 17:09
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Ola posted:Not 100% EV on the market right now, no. There's a PHEV, the Mitsubishi Outlander and the Peugeot 3008, a non-plug hybrid (PHEV is coming) where the rear motor is driven electrically. The Toyota Highlander is the same, rear wheels electrically driven. But it probably doesn't count because the fronts are gas only.
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Oct 3, 2017 17:13
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There's this 4WD electric offroad truck: http://bollingermotors.com
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Oct 3, 2017 19:23
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VideoGameVet posted:There's this 4WD electric offroad truck: Lol this thing is great What is the price of this box o powwuh
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Oct 3, 2017 19:36
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McStephenson posted:Lol this thing is great Jalopnik reports that the base model is expected to cost $60,000 Specs: All Wheel Drive (AWD) 0-60 in 4.5 sec Top Speed 127 mph 360 Horsepower 472 lb-ft Torque Dual Front/ Rear Motor 60 kWh or 100 kWh Energy Storage 120 Mile or 200 Mile Range https://jalopnik.com/bollingers-200-mile-electric-truck-is-fantastically-rug-1797333580 The interior reminds me of classic Land Rovers. 
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Oct 3, 2017 19:51
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VideoGameVet posted:
I'm not going to judge them on interior and other performance indicators until they have sold as many as Land Rover.
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Oct 3, 2017 20:28
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Subjunctive posted:Snow triggers the sensors on my S, at least. I don't think I've had sleet or hail yet. Me and you have the same V1 autopilot model S and the rain sensors do work on ours too. edit: People who bought V2 autopilots are the ones are are still hosed and the model 3 as well. Also my delivery date still says october to december for my model 3 but still haven't gotten the email to pick my options. silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 20:36
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The Sicilian posted:I'm not going to judge them on interior and other performance indicators until they have sold as many as Land Rover. Off topic, but it was a sad day when Land Rover killed the Defender line.
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Oct 3, 2017 20:42
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silicone thrills posted:edit: People who bought V2 autopilots are the ones are are still hosed and the model 3 as well. That's pretty ridiculous.
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Oct 3, 2017 20:55
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VideoGameVet posted:Jalopnik reports that the base model is expected to cost $60,000 How does that adhere to any NHS crash standard? I cant see how this could be even close to being street legal.
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Oct 3, 2017 21:25
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VideoGameVet posted:Jalopnik reports that the base model is expected to cost $60,000 Look at that big ol' face smasher.
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Oct 3, 2017 21:33
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The Sicilian posted:I'm not going to judge them on interior and other performance indicators until they have sold as many as Land Rover. And yet Tesla gets your approval?
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Oct 3, 2017 21:33
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Goober Peas posted:And yet Tesla gets your approval? It's a callback.
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Oct 3, 2017 21:38
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In other news, here are some hilariously bad takes on the original iPhone.TechCrunch posted:That virtual keyboard will be about as useful for tapping out emails and text messages as a rotary phone. Don’t be surprised if a sizable contingent of iPhone buyers express some remorse at ditching their BlackBerry when they spend an extra hour each day pumping out emails on the road. David Platt posted:Instead, the iPhone is going to fail because its design is fundamentally flawed. The designers and technophiles who encouraged development of the iPhone have fallen into the trap of all overreaching hardware and software designers; thinking that their users are like themselves... Engadget posted:Apparently none of you guys realize how bad of an idea a touch-screen is on a phone. I foresee some pretty obvious and pretty major problems here. Bloomberg posted:The big competitors in the mobile-phone industry such as Nokia Oyj and Motorola Inc. won’t be whispering nervously into their clamshells over a new threat to their business….The iPhone is nothing more than a luxury bauble that will appeal to a few gadget freaks. In terms of its impact on the industry, the iPhone is less relevant. Man that Model 3 is going to suck.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:09
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Does Costco sell survivorship bias now? That's a big serving.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:10
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Subjunctive posted:Does Costco sell survivorship bias now? That's a big serving. I don't think Tesla has any contemporaries in the market that provide a direct, credible possibility of comparison. That being said, Apple is probably one of the only to do so with. I don't think AI realizes this may be a product you just have to use to "get" or appreciate; or alternatively, affirm your hate for it. 
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Oct 3, 2017 23:17
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MySpace was pretty big. Pebble too.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:19
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:How does that adhere to any NHS crash standard? I cant see how this could be even close to being street legal. I know there's a waiver for limited production 'replica' vehicles (but not for emissions). Not sure this qualifies for that. Originally introduced as the Low Volume Motor Vehicle Manufacturers Act of 2015, the law allows manufacturers to apply for an exemption from NHTSA safety and crash-test standards for up to 325 “replica motor vehicles” annually. Jaguar is using this for the 'new' XKE electrics.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:22
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Subjunctive posted:MySpace was pretty big. Pebble too. Neither of those companies made bold moves or went against the popular tides of their respective industries. Both suffered from their stagnation of innovation in comparison to competitors. This is akin to removing the tactile buttons from cell phones, some of which marketed themselves entirely on their keyboard building prowess, and replacing them with the iPhone's touchscreen. I'm not saying the Model 3 is perfection embodied, but it would be wise to use it and then pass judgment. The Sicilian fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 23:34
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[quote="“The Sicilian”" post="“477028162”"] Neither of those companies made bold moves or went against the popular tides of their respective industries. [/quote] You'd prefer Palm Pre and Nokia's latter efforts? You don't get to go back 10 years and cherrypick a generation-defining product release as evidence for the success of a $40K car that still can't tell if there's rain on its windshield. It's like proposing a lottery ticket winner be your retirement model. The car industry knows a lot more about evaluating vehicle ergonomics and performance than the sui generis smartphone pundits did a decade ago. Presenting it as evidence in favour of the Model S being an unappreciated gem is facile at best. (Early consumer reviews will likely be positive because all the buyers have spent ages psyching themselves up and evangelizing. The prospect of cognitive dissonance will make the vast majority of them very forgiving indeed.)
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Oct 3, 2017 23:43
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Subjunctive posted:(Early consumer reviews will likely be positive because all the buyers have spent ages psyching themselves up and evangelizing. The prospect of cognitive dissonance will make the vast majority of them very forgiving indeed.) I'm not talking about reviews, multiple times I said you should test drive or try it when it reaches full release. Does your hate for the mdoel render you unable to even consider doing so? I just can't think of a good argument against, "wait and see what it's like person before forming a final opinion," other than extreme cognitive dissonance in action If you hate it, you hate it. Right now you are being like the early iPhone pundits commenting after seeing the keynote and maybe some limited use in the weeks following. No harm in giving yourself some firsthand experience so you can definitively and authoritatively say, "it sucks."
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Oct 3, 2017 23:51
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I'm booked for a test drive. I just think your comparison is ridiculous at best.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:53
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The Sicilian posted:If you hate it, you hate it. Right now you are being like the early iPhone pundits commenting after seeing the keynote and maybe some limited use in the weeks following. No harm in giving yourself some firsthand experience so you can definitively and authoritatively say, "it sucks."
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Oct 3, 2017 23:56
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Subjunctive posted:I'm booked for a test drive.  Subjunctive posted:I just think your comparison is ridiculous at best. Yea totally, comparing a company that was panned in reviews for removing tactile buttons from a consumer product in favor of a touchscreen, to Tesla's design decisions for the model is out in loving left field. /s
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Oct 3, 2017 23:57
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I'd just like to say that my son played around with the sketch pad feature in my neighbor's model x the other day, and he's now a convert to bigass touchscreens in cars.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:59
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The Sicilian posted:Neither of those companies made bold moves or went against the popular tides of their respective industries. Both suffered from their stagnation of innovation in comparison to competitors. gently caress off. There is an enormous difference between phone - which already had touchscreens and was accepted and you are not in control of a two ton vehicle - and a car where a touchscreens have been roundly shat on for years as being an obviously stupid idea for a control interface. This has got to be one of the dumbest strawman arguments I have seen.
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Oct 4, 2017 00:48
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Subjunctive posted:You'd prefer Palm Pre and Nokia's latter efforts? You don't get to go back 10 years and cherrypick a generation-defining product release as evidence for the success of a $40K car that still can't tell if there's rain on its windshield. It's like proposing a lottery ticket winner be your retirement model. Have to share this. Prior to the iPhone App store the company I was at had the leading web-based games for the iPhone. Over 20 of them, including the first iPhone game ever released. Since the Palm Pre was web-app based, I wanted to jump on it. What's more, the person who was their chief evangelist was a former co-worker from decades ago. So we 'packaged' one the most popular titles for the launch. And ... Palm LOST THE APP. I poo poo you not. Their execution was that poor.
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Oct 4, 2017 01:02
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:gently caress off. There is an enormous difference between phone - which already had touchscreens and was accepted and you are not in control of a two ton vehicle - and a car where a touchscreens have been roundly shat on for years as being an obviously stupid idea for a control interface. Yea people really pan the Model S for its touchscreen. /s Other manufacturers have struggled in this arena. Also, all those pundit's early impressions were panning it for the touchscreen which wasn't accepted at the time due to other's poor implementation of the tech. Please refresh your memory.
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Oct 4, 2017 01:11
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The Sicilian posted:I don't think Tesla has any contemporaries in the market that provide a direct, credible possibility of comparison. I donno about that, I read a review about the bolt that compared it pretty favorably.
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Oct 4, 2017 01:45
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The Sicilian posted:In other news, here are some hilariously bad takes on the original iPhone. The thing is, those early reviewers weren't wrong. It took a generational upgrade and major advances in predictive text before the iPhone (and Android) could compete with BlackBerry for input interface. The fact that BlackBerry held on as long as it did with a hardware keyboard goes to show the strength of that design choice. And ultimately it wasn't the UI or design that sunk them. If you had two car companies, one with a flexible, upgradeable touch based UI, and one with traditional hardware, and the flexible UI one ends up dominating the market, it will be because the traditional one refused to develop an autodrive system or networked charging or God knows whatever future developments, not because of the UI. That would be a more apt lesson to take from your examples. Finger Prince fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 01:49
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The Sicilian posted:
 My brain wants to view your posts as a gimmick but I'm old enough to know better. A phone is not a car, and you can't touch-type on an iPhone in the same way you can't touch-AC on a screen like you could with a switch and a knob set up. The only downside to physical buttons and the only reason that the model 3 is lacking in them is cost. It is the exact same thing Maserati deals with when making cars, the same thing Lotus does and on down the line. If you were a small manufacture you used what parts you could in order to put HVAC controls and radios and things into your sweet ride. Ever see the inside of a Countach? The model 3 has to come under a certain cost and physical knobs and buttons are expensive. A flat screen that you can program around to make anything you want is cheap and easy to make your own because it only takes time. Since Teslas have a certain mystique about them it isn't good enough that they plop in the interior from something else made by someone else that a typical coach builder used to do, no, it would have to be custom to give that idea that it is special and unique and futuristic. A large touchscreen alone is not better than buttons, it's a bunch of compromises that exist because physical buttons are a cost item and Tesla wants to half-way convince everyone that they are doing it on purpose because 'future'. If cost wasn't an issue it would have that same screen but would also have buttons and knobs very much like the standard stuff you can find in normal cars. I suppose the other end of that is if Tesla can push driverless car tech fast enough they can get past this awkward phase because you wouldn't need to keep your eyes on the road and hands on the wheel and could instead tablet it up with your full attention. Isn't it a thing where Elon himself has said that Tesla making cars is temporary? Like the whole deal was to push EVs and the industry toward that and then Tesla would make other things instead?
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Oct 4, 2017 02:03
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KakerMix posted:Isn't it a thing where Elon himself has said that Tesla making cars is temporary? Like the whole deal was to push EVs and the industry toward that and then Tesla would make other things instead? Yes, but that's Mr. Musks way of PT Barnuming himself out of failure, i.e. even when Tesla goes broke the fact that the Bolt exists is "proof" that he was a "genius."
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Oct 4, 2017 02:26
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The Sicilian posted:If you hate it, you hate it. Right now you are being like the early iPhone pundits commenting after seeing the keynote and maybe some limited use in the weeks following. No harm in giving yourself some firsthand experience so you can definitively and authoritatively say, "it sucks." Early iPhone keyboards objectively sucked, really loving hard. This remains true today. I knew several people who stuck with their Blackberries until the iPhone 4 or later, and still complain about it because in fact yes, a physical keyboard is still to this day a better interface than a touchscreen replica of one. Otherwise we'd all have flat LCD panels on the bottom half of our laptops today instead of a bunch of buttons. We put up with soft keyboards because we like having a bigger screen on a smaller phone. The Model 3 interface objectively sucks, and people will put up with it because they want the rest of the car, but it's still worse than the alternative. This isn't even getting into the obvious differences between having a lovely slow interface on a phone and a lovely slow interface on a highway-capable motor vehicle.
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Oct 4, 2017 02:34
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blugu64 posted:Yes, but that's Mr. Musks way of PT Barnuming himself out of failure, i.e. even when Tesla goes broke the fact that the Bolt exists is "proof" that he was a "genius." I don't understand dudes like Sicilian that proselytize about an uncaring company that is not their friend in the same way that I don't understand why people just fuckin' HATE Elon Musk. Who gives a hot poo poo if Tesla fails? Is it all so people can scream "HA I TOLD YOU" when Tesla closes up shop? Did anyone do that when AMC was absorbed into Chrysler? When Studebaker closed shop? DeLorean? Nobody gives a gently caress if you were right in the same way that everyone suddenly forgot that everyone was poo poo talking Sony before Playstation came in a dominated both Sega and Nintendo. Musk is going to continue to be a billionaire and go to space or whatever the hell it is he will do because it doesn't matter if Tesla ultimately fails. Tesla is a wholly USA company that employs Americans to build an all-electric car within the United States and it weirds me the hell out that a bunch of patriots aren't saluting the gently caress out of Teslas. This should be right up their alley, no?
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Oct 4, 2017 02:38
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blugu64 posted:I donno about that, I read a review about the bolt that compared it pretty favorably. You know GM gets poo poo on for the EV1 situation, but how many other car manufacturers were putting out anything close to it at the time? Even now, outside of Tesla GM seems to be way ahead of every other manufacturer putting out solid EVs that you can actually buy today. I mean compare what GM has vs Ford, the difference is massive.
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Oct 4, 2017 02:38
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Jimong5 posted:You know GM gets poo poo on for the EV1 situation, but how many other car manufacturers were putting out anything close to it at the time? Even now, outside of Tesla GM seems to be way ahead of every other manufacturer putting out solid EVs that you can actually buy today. I mean compare what GM has vs Ford, the difference is massive. GM is one of those cases where they have some superbly brilliant people working there, but they never get noticed for it. I have a soft spot for the company in my heart because they were the ones stuffing quad-cam V-8 engines into mother-loving-FWD platforms and were at least trying to do weird poo poo in the past long before anyone else had the balls to try it (V-8-6-4, Cadillacs with night-vision screens, quadrasteer trucks, etc.). Also there's no way you can hate on folks who somehow keep an engine design pioneered in what, the 40's(?) still relevant today. Let's strap leaf springs in the back of a Corvette and make it fast anyways. Let's make an entire line of cars with body panels made out of cheap plastic. Let's make a hybrid with a huge lithium ion battery that can go 40 miles before kicking the gas motor on, and let's let people charge it externally. Also let's link up the system with a heat pump/cooling system to keep the batteries happy. It's honestly of no surprise to me that something chafed a GM engineer's rear end looking at the Model S, and when Tesla announced the Model 3 the engineer muttered under his/her breath "I'll show you, motherfucker". GM gets concepts and ideas right, they just kind of suck at packaging and reliability, and, well, design in general. Edit: At the National Drive Electric week meet-up I got to drive the Bolt and it is My Next Car™ so I'm looking forward to paying off the house for a bit and strapping a 50A charger in place. 
funeral home DJ fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 02:59
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Finger Prince posted:The thing is, those early reviewers weren't wrong. It took a generational upgrade and major advances in predictive text before the iPhone (and Android) could compete with BlackBerry for input interface. The fact that BlackBerry held on as long as it did with a hardware keyboard goes to show the strength of that design choice. And ultimately it wasn't the UI or design that sunk them. No, it's because the US government and the elderly move at the speed of molasses. The USAF was still issuing loving pagers to alert crews when I got out in 2012. Our commander had a blackberry at least as late as 2010.
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Oct 4, 2017 03:44
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sanchez posted:Apparently some Bolts have an issue where the seat padding is wrong causing crippling pain for drivers. How do you gently caress up seat padding. When the Cobalt came out certain parts of the interior were so hard that they were dangerous in a crash. The NHTSA actually forced GM to add softer interior materials.  Like this wasn't some one off track only kit car, this was going to be the new GM definitely-not-the-Cavalier compact car that was going to take the market back from the Corolla and Civic. Like there was a published federally mandated minimum requirement on how cheap the interior could be before it became too dangerous and GM failed to meet it. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Oct 4, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 04:05
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Godholio posted:No, it's because the US government and the elderly move at the speed of molasses. The USAF was still issuing loving pagers to alert crews when I got out in 2012. Our commander had a blackberry at least as late as 2010. It's probably more a uniquely Canadian thing, with our usurious cell phone plans and the economy-wide adoption of BlackBerry as the business phone of choice, but they're still fairly common, and many folk who had one for a work phone were loath to give it up until predictive text + haptic feedback got good. They're still the default company phone where I work. If they kept up to date with OS technology and opened up app development, RIM might still be relevant. Anyway my point is, they didn't die out because their interface was "old tech". They died out because they relied on corporate contracts and fleet sales  and didn't keep up with processor, screen, web and app trends. Like if Ford kept on selling the Panther platform, and also didn't sell anything but the Panther platform. And the fact that people are criticizing the Tesla UI right now has no relevancy on whether they will go on to be the next Apple.
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Oct 4, 2017 05:14
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