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GaussianCopula posted:The separatist leaders need mediation to happen asap or they are royally hosed because they will have fallen in the same trap Cameron (and, to a lesser degree Tsipras) fell into, trying to blackmail the EU/Spain with the threat of a referendum/separation to get what you want, only to find out that the other side has all the cards and will watch you self-immolate and piss on your ashes. wow a fully true and good GC post :whoa: No matter who you think is right (or more wrong) between Spain and Catalonia, actual secession will only end up loving everyone after the brief victorious feelings of having successfully stuck it to the man wear off.
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Oct 5, 2017 08:42
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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"The business community and the stock market won't like it" isn't a really good reason for not doing something.
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Oct 5, 2017 10:30
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Kemper Boyd posted:"The business community and the stock market won't like it" isn't a really good reason for not doing something. On the other hand not everything the business community and the stock market doesn't like is a good thing for the people. A short term economic crash hurts almost everybody and there's no guarantee Catalonia would regain its prosperity at a later point. The separatist don't care about these worries and they shut down any doubts without debate, that's not a good sign.
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Oct 5, 2017 10:38
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Kemper Boyd posted:"The business community and the stock market won't like it" isn't a really good reason for not doing something. If one of your most important arguments is "Madrid takes too much money from us" and your actions result in most of your economy relocating to Madrid, I doubt those actions are very smart.
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Oct 5, 2017 10:41
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BabyFur Denny posted:Yes, let's send in the Germans again. Like in that famous painting Haha holy poo poo he specifically mentioned Germany and Italy There's no way he's not doing it on purpose at this point. I don't think he's a fascist, but he takes up fascist positions out of sheer contrarianism.
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Oct 5, 2017 10:46
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Phlegmish posted:Haha holy poo poo he specifically mentioned Germany and Italy 
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Oct 5, 2017 13:27
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Phlegmish posted:Haha holy poo poo he specifically mentioned Germany and Italy
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Oct 5, 2017 14:21
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https://twitter.com/YanniKouts/status/915929654292287490 this is gonna be fun.
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Oct 5, 2017 14:33
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GaussianCopula posted:https://twitter.com/YanniKouts/status/915929654292287490 Oh no, I guess the jig is up guys everybody go home.
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Oct 5, 2017 15:01
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I really wonder if Rajoy has any kind of long term plan. Sure, he wants to gain back conservtives who voted C's by being the nationalistic tough guy and he doesn't care whether the PP gets 3% or 8% in Catalonia but what does he want to do with the place? He can revoke autonomy, put in a Madrid controlled unelected government and literally put tanks in the streets, it's not like people would risk an actual civil war, but that would be the best thing that could ever happen to the independence movement. I mean, at some point he has to deal with 6 million people that he wants to keep in his country.
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Oct 5, 2017 15:20
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cebrail posted:I really wonder if Rajoy has any kind of long term plan I really wonder if anybody involved has any kind of plan Andrast fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 15:22
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Phlegmish posted:Haha holy poo poo he specifically mentioned Germany and Italy Remember that he's only doing this because his elementary school teacher was a leftist that tried to "brainwash" him, and now that he's an adult he became a fascist just to spite leftists and, by extension, his ex teacher. He really embodies the ideal of "politics of spite" that many populist parties have adopted, like Syriza.
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Oct 5, 2017 15:24
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cebrail posted:I really wonder if Rajoy has any kind of long term plan. Sure, he wants to gain back conservtives who voted C's by being the nationalistic tough guy and he doesn't care whether the PP gets 3% or 8% in Catalonia but what does he want to do with the place? He can revoke autonomy, put in a Madrid controlled unelected government and literally put tanks in the streets, it's not like people would risk an actual civil war, but that would be the best thing that could ever happen to the independence movement. I mean, at some point he has to deal with 6 million people that he wants to keep in his country. He probably doesn't actually think there is majority support for independence, and that if there is, it's only temporary and the fever will break.
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Oct 5, 2017 15:25
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Pedro De Heredia posted:it's only temporary and the fever will break. Rajoy.txt Elman posted:Oh no, I guess the jig is up guys everybody go home. I don't think they expect it to work.
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Oct 5, 2017 15:29
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GaussianCopula posted:If one of your most important arguments is "Madrid takes too much money from us" and your actions result in most of your economy relocating to Madrid, I doubt those actions are very smart. No, you want it to be the most important argument because you think it somehow makes Catalonia stop existing or illegitemate or whatever. You keep harping on about greed because you're desperately short of any other arguments.
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Oct 5, 2017 15:30
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Andrast posted:I really wonder if anybody involved has any kind of plan My point is that the other side doesn't really need to, because Puigdemont knows that nothing that could come out of this would lead to increased support for the central government. If everything is hosed up the divide between catalans and the spanish state widens and the separatist movement profits. Rajoy, however, needs to have an at least superficially united and functional country at some point.
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Oct 5, 2017 15:44
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Fat Samurai posted:I don't think they expect it to work. Well no, but in seriousness this means they might send in the cops and try to prevent the parliament meeting. That should end well.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:08
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cebrail posted:My point is that the other side doesn't really need to, because Puigdemont knows that nothing that could come out of this would lead to increased support for the central government. If everything is hosed up the divide between catalans and the spanish state widens and the separatist movement profits. Rajoy, however, needs to have an at least superficially united and functional country at some point. Nothing might lead to increased support for the central government, but it absolutely can lead to decreased support for the coalition currently in power.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:09
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Funny - Venezuela's government also had the supreme court invalidate the sessions of it's legislature through ultra-quick supreme court rulings of judges put in place by the ruling party. Also hilarious seeing people go on and on about the greed of Catalonia and Catalonia officials. The party pushing them to the brink - their enemy - is the PP. They are conservatives. They cut back their government budgets and let people starve using austerity just to save rich people money. And you're talking about the loving greed of the Catalonians? Seriously? ThisIsWhyTrumpWon fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 16:10
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Funny - Venezuela's government also had the supreme court invalidate the sessions of it's legislature through ultra-quick supreme court rulings of judges put in place by the ruling party. It's better to just argue why the courts are wrong.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:17
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Elman posted:Well no, but in seriousness this means they might send in the cops and try to prevent the parliament meeting. That should end well. I hope they have learned their lesson and Puigdemont is still walking around giving speeches. Probably better to ignore it and wait for the corralito.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:22
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Also hilarious seeing people go on and on about the greed of Catalonia and Catalonia officials. The party pushing them to the brink - their enemy - is the PP. They are conservatives. They cut back their government budgets and let people starve using austerity just to save rich people money. And you're talking about the loving greed of the Catalonians? Seriously? The parties that Carles Puigdemont and Artur Mas belong/ed to are center/ center-right parties too. The founder of CDC was insanely corrupt too. The rallying cry of the modern-day push for independence was "Spain steals from us". Everyone knows Mariano Rajoy and the PP are conservatives. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 16:24
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What's the demographics on independence support? E.g., how does it depend on education, class ..?
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Oct 5, 2017 16:59
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Support for independence corresponds with higher education and with younger age. https://www.vilaweb.cat/noticies/el-si-a-la-independencia-simposaria-amb-claredat-en-un-referendum-segons-el-ceo/ https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estudis_del_suport_social_a_la_independ%C3%A8ncia_de_Catalunya (Sources in catalan)
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Oct 5, 2017 17:10
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Funny - Venezuela's government also had the supreme court invalidate the sessions of it's legislature through ultra-quick supreme court rulings of judges put in place by the ruling party. Can we PLEASE add a Venezuelan corollary to  ?
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Oct 5, 2017 17:18
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Elman posted:Oh no, I guess the jig is up guys everybody go home. Well we were going to declare unilateral independence but then the courts of the country we planned on seceding from forbade us from doing so so I guess we won't declare independence then. Said no one. Ever. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 18:32
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Orange Devil posted:Well we were going to declare unilateral independents but then the courts of the country we planned on seceding from forbade us from doing so so I guess we won't declare independence then. They don't want to declare independence. This is the Tsipras Gambit, where you call for an referendum in the hope that the other side gives in and makes major concessions to stop you from holding the referendum or respects the result of the referendum that they make major concessions after the referendum. Rajoy called their bluff and now it's just a question of time until they surrender.
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Oct 5, 2017 18:37
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GaussianCopula posted:They don't want to declare independence. This is the Tsipras Gambit, where you call for an referendum in the hope that the other side gives in and makes major concessions to stop you from holding the referendum or respects the result of the referendum that they make major concessions after the referendum. Rajoy called their bluff and now it's just a question of time until they surrender. I am so loving going to quote this post two months from now.
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Oct 5, 2017 18:41
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GaussianCopula posted:They don't want to declare independence. This is the Tsipras Gambit, where you call for an referendum in the hope that the other side gives in and makes major concessions to stop you from holding the referendum or respects the result of the referendum that they make major concessions after the referendum. Rajoy called their bluff and now it's just a question of time until they surrender. And what happens if they do not surrender?
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Oct 5, 2017 18:50
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GaussianCopula posted:They don't want to declare independence. This is the Tsipras Gambit, where you call for an referendum in the hope that the other side gives in and makes major concessions to stop you from holding the referendum or respects the result of the referendum that they make major concessions after the referendum. Rajoy called their bluff and now it's just a question of time until they surrender. Sending hundreds of cops to beat up voters is not calling a bluff, it's being a fascist shithead
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Oct 5, 2017 18:57
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Angry Lobster posted:And what happens if they do not surrender? You mean if they actually declare independence? Rajoy invokes Section 155 of the constitution taking over control in Catalonia and ordering new elections. In other news: https://twitter.com/YanniKouts/status/916001330824716288
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Oct 5, 2017 19:15
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GaussianCopula posted:You mean if they actually declare independence? Rajoy invokes Section 155 of the constitution taking over control in Catalonia and ordering new elections. Do you genuinely don't get it? What if the Catalonian government simply refuses to step down when disbanded, because that is where this is headed. Legality does not make magic passwords that enforce your will.
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Oct 5, 2017 20:17
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Namarrgon posted:Do you genuinely don't get it? What if the Catalonian government simply refuses to step down when disbanded, because that is where this is headed. Legality does not make magic passwords that enforce your will. They would get arrested.
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Oct 5, 2017 20:32
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GaussianCopula posted:They would get arrested.
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Oct 5, 2017 20:45
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GaussianCopula posted:They would get arrested. And what happens if they can't arrest them because, say, there's an army in the way?
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Oct 5, 2017 20:52
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Cingulate posted:And then, you'd gloat about it.  I Love Annie May posted:And what happens if they can't arrest them because, say, there's an army in the way? Which army would that be?
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Oct 5, 2017 21:00
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GaussianCopula posted:
Don't be so loving dense.
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Oct 5, 2017 21:18
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I Love Annie May posted:Don't be so loving dense. It seems a reasonable question.
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Oct 5, 2017 22:38
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GaussianCopula posted:
The Carlists, who have been sewing banners and stockpiling arms since well, forever, but the most conveniently ludicrous date is 1975. Apparently the current* Carlist candidate is pretender to the throne of Portugal, for bonus weirdness.
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Oct 5, 2017 22:53
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| # ? May 30, 2024 13:22 |
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Radio says Spaniards are cheering police and singing patriotic songs in the streets as they are deployed en masse to Catalonia  plz tell me this is an exaggeration because it makes it sound like things are going to get really bad
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Oct 6, 2017 01:05
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