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BigDave posted:Bad With Money: Wanting to purchasing a house within 200 miles of San Francisco AreWeDrunkYet posted:To be fair, good luck getting to ~$200k gross income for a couple anywhere else in the country outside a few other high COL areas. But yeah, it definitely sounds like they are better off renting unless there are significant quality of life benefits from buying a house. That's going to be a hard choice to justify financially at those numbers. With 10k combined income AFTER taxes and 401k, their income is more like 300k. https://www.adp.com/tools-and-resources/calculators-and-tools/payroll-calculators/salary-paycheck-calculator.aspx If 800k is about the bottom in the market, it's unlikely they can put 20% down (though they could after a year or two saving). If they bought a 900k house, that's a 750000 loan and at 4%, mortgage alone is 3600. But they'll also have to tack on property taxes, HOA, maintenance, etc. that they're not paying now, so well over 4000/mo and probably closer to 4500, depending strongly on the HOA. So I'd say they can't afford to buy a house, but it's kind of insane that you literally can't afford to buy a house on a 300k/yr gross income, even with no debts, etc. The views in SF are amazing but they need to get their act together and start building UP, because this kind of poo poo is ridiculous.
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Oct 7, 2017 16:52
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Ashcans posted:It's interesting that renting is often as good or better than buying a house, but almost all car lease options are just terrible. totalnewbie posted:So I'd say they can't afford to buy a house, but it's kind of insane that you literally can't afford to buy a house on a 300k/yr gross income, even with no debts, etc. The views in SF are amazing but they need to get their act together and start building UP, because this kind of poo poo is ridiculous.
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Oct 7, 2017 17:19
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theHUNGERian posted:I still don't understand how you guys get so triggered by a posts, that you have to put a user on ignore. Every single thing he says is deliberately designed to piss somebody off, and one response leads to another, and suddenly there's a pointless argument in the thread instead of content. You can't prevent everybody from taking the bait. It would probably be better at this point to probate people just for responding to him.
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Oct 7, 2017 17:23
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Haifisch posted:From what I've heard, the main problem is NIMBYs fighting against new housing stock because they want to "preserve the character of the neighborhood" or whatever bullshit excuse they're using that day to obscure the real reason("I want my house value to keep going insanely high, and building more housing throws a wrench in that").
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Oct 7, 2017 17:28
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totalnewbie posted:With 10k combined income AFTER taxes and 401k, their income is more like 300k. https://www.adp.com/tools-and-resources/calculators-and-tools/payroll-calculators/salary-paycheck-calculator.aspx Using your link I am seeing they make basically 200K (unless I am screwing something up, using 0 withholding as well). They have 200K already saved so they already have the 20% down payment. I still don't think it is a good idea, going from 2.6K in rent (pretty cheap in the bay) to a 4-4.5K mortgage doesn't seem like a great idea. Consider maxing out the 401K, back door ROTH, and just flat out investing for retirement would be better. According to the spend mentioned they can put away $4K minimum a month, do that for the next 10 years and with other investing move somewhere cheaper and retire.
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Oct 7, 2017 17:33
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uXs posted:Or maybe don't get an auto loan, ever? If you can't afford to buy car X with cash on hand, you have no business buying car X in the first place; get something cheaper instead. I was taught that you should generally only finance 1 car ever Finance a reasonable used economy car with a reasonable loan from the credit union. When you pay it off, keep making payments into a bank account just like you were still paying off the car. Your budget already accommodates this expense. At the end of each year, raise your insurance deductible to the amount you have in that account and review/increase your liability limit as appropriate. Pay the difference into your account. When that account gets large enough to cover the replacement cost of another reliable used economy car, drop your insurance to liability only. Pay the difference into your account. When the account is large enough to buy 2 appropriate cars, you are now self insured. You should never have to make another car payment unless you suffer some staggering loss. Keep putting money into the account to upgrade the quality of car you want to buy next. Of course, no financial plan survives contact with reality, but it's a pretty good framework. (And like uXs said, if you can find a way NOT to own a car, try that first.) Folly fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 17:56
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Folly posted:I was taught that you should generally only finance 1 car ever, your first one. The plan goes like this: Most Americans need their first car when they're really young and have no credit though. And how does the insurance side of the plan work as far as covering potential medical costs from an accident?
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Oct 7, 2017 18:26
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spwrozek posted:Using your link I am seeing they make basically 200K (unless I am screwing something up, using 0 withholding as well). They have 200K already saved so they already have the 20% down payment. I still don't think it is a good idea, going from 2.6K in rent (pretty cheap in the bay) to a 4-4.5K mortgage doesn't seem like a great idea. Consider maxing out the 401K, back door ROTH, and just flat out investing for retirement would be better. According to the spend mentioned they can put away $4K minimum a month, do that for the next 10 years and with other investing move somewhere cheaper and retire. Oops I was thinking they made 12k take home/mo, not 10. Regardless, the situation there is completely untenable.
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Oct 7, 2017 18:34
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Most Americans need their first car when they're really young and have no credit though. And how does the insurance side of the plan work as far as covering potential medical costs from an accident? You're self-insuring collision and comprehensive, not medical or liability. Not sure what you're point is about the credit. This plan isn't about how to get financing, it's about how to avoid financing a second car.
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Oct 7, 2017 18:35
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Folly posted:You're self-insuring collision and comprehensive, not medical or liability. If you can't figure out how being young and having no credit applies to a "just build upon what you started with" plan I don't think there's much help for you. Spoiler, guy whose parents obviously bought his first car: The financing options when you're young are usurious or nonexistent. That's why most young people pay cash for their very cheap first few cars and likely don't finance one for years.
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Oct 7, 2017 18:38
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Don't do it, Folly. 
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Oct 7, 2017 18:46
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Moneyball posted:Don't do it, Folly. Sorry you took it that way.
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Oct 7, 2017 18:46
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Fixed.
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Oct 7, 2017 18:49
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:If you can't figure out how being young and having no credit applies to a "just build upon what you started with" plan I don't think there's much help for you. Spoiler, guy whose parents obviously bought his first car: The financing options when you're young are usurious or nonexistent. That's why most young people pay cash for their very cheap first few cars and likely don't finance one for years. If you've got financially illiterate parents, that sucks and you'll be at a big disadvantage. Those with parents that know their financial rear end from their elbow can add their kids as authorized users and do other actions that will create a credit history and score for their kids.
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Oct 7, 2017 18:58
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baquerd posted:If you've got financially illiterate parents, that sucks and you'll be at a big disadvantage. Those with parents that know their financial rear end from their elbow can add their kids as authorized users and do other actions that will create a credit history and score for their kids. The sad part is some kids won't know for awhile that their parents are financially illiterate (i honestly didn't learn this till I was almost 20 when we were packing up on a foreclosure)
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Oct 7, 2017 19:03
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baquerd posted:If you've got financially illiterate parents, that sucks and you'll be at a big disadvantage. Those with parents that know their financial rear end from their elbow can add their kids as authorized users and do other actions that will create a credit history and score for their kids. You can be as smart as you want, if you're poor you still don't have money to buy things. But maybe you could skip back to one of the last thousand times this thread had to explain what banking options are like for low-income people.
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Oct 7, 2017 19:18
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totalnewbie posted:Oops I was thinking they made 12k take home/mo, not 10. We definitely agree there! If they made another 100K a year maybe it would be smart at some point...
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Oct 7, 2017 19:52
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spf3million posted:That plus prop 13 which limits the rate of property tax increase so you have houses that have been in the family for decades with artificially low property taxes. So high property values don't affect them. What makes Prop 13 even worse is that not only can kids inherit the Prop 13 benefits from their parents, it doesn't have to be from the same house. They can transfer it to a new property; sell their parent's house for a million+ or whatever and buy another property that they'll live in for another 50 years (or live off the rental income).
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Oct 7, 2017 20:26
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https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/74rkgw/boss_wont_allow_us_to_use_seatbelts_in_company/quote:Boss won't allow us to use seatbelts in company car [NH]
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Oct 7, 2017 22:27
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You can be as smart as you want, if you're poor you still don't have money to buy things. But maybe you could skip back to one of the last thousand times this thread had to explain what banking options are like for low-income people. Poors are almost universally BWM because they have failed to grasp the skills necessary to grab onto the income side of the income/savings/investing equation. Understanding the basics of how to live a non-poor life is going to be highly correlated with not living a poor life. Unfortunately, there are a ton of social cues and other things holding poors back from wider acceptance in white collar jobs. Being poor by itself is not a huge contributor, it's a lack of skills and understanding of societal roles. This is quite similar to the upper-middle class trying to break into the upper class. There is a fundamental mindset shift that is almost always required, namely to focus on building relationships that will build wealth (even if that is not the explicit intention), and delaying gratification while playing by the societal rules. I don't pretend to know all of the ins and outs myself, but it should be abundantly clear to any casual observer that there are different rules for different people, and the answer isn't just money, money, money.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:24
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/74rkgw/boss_wont_allow_us_to_use_seatbelts_in_company/ If your boss is a sovereign citizen you need to gtfo regardless of his views on seatbelts before the whole company goes down for tax evasion...
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Oct 7, 2017 23:37
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He needs to report that dude to the IRS and claim some of that sweet penalty money when the sov cit guy inevitably has failed to pay a cent in taxes.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:52
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You'd think OSHA would have a rule about this. If not this specifically, at least something general about banning the use of existing safety equipment.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:06
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baquerd posted:Poors are almost universally BWM because they have failed to grasp the skills necessary to grab onto the income side of the income/savings/investing equation. Understanding the basics of how to live a non-poor life is going to be highly correlated with not living a poor life. Unfortunately, there are a ton of social cues and other things holding poors back from wider acceptance in white collar jobs. Being poor by itself is not a huge contributor, it's a lack of skills and understanding of societal roles. So wait are you saying people are poor because they don't understand how to make money better
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Oct 8, 2017 00:09
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ate all the Oreos posted:So wait are you saying people are poor because they don't understand how to make money better If we define "poors" as those not making much money, then that's drat near a tautology, unless you want to claim that poors don't want to make more money.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:18
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Dude, don't call people "poors." It's a dehumanizing term. You might think that in light of the stupid arguments this thread has gotten into in the past that I'm being cheeky, but I'm not. Seriously, don't do that. We can talk about the factors that contribute to populations staying poor without doing it.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:20
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Hoodwinker posted:Dude, don't call people "poors." It's a dehumanizing term. You might think that in light of the stupid arguments this thread has gotten into in the past that I'm being cheeky, but I'm not. Seriously, don't do that. We can talk about the factors that contribute to populations staying poor without doing it. Could, but no, don't care. If SA wants to swing hard left, it (oh wait, is that the right pronoun?) can do it without me.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:25
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My dad is a felon, my mom is a drug addict, and I can't find a job because I am a visible minority without quality education. Hmmm, better hoist myself up from my bootstraps, and rise above my fellow poors. What a loving chump.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:26
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baquerd posted:Could, but no, don't care. If SA wants to swing hard left, it (oh wait, is that the right pronoun?) can do it without me. 
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Oct 8, 2017 00:26
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baquerd posted:If we define "poors" as those not making much money, then that's drat near a tautology, unless you want to claim that poors don't want to make more money. Yes it is a tautology that's why I pointed it out, to mock you cuz you're real dum
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Oct 8, 2017 00:34
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ate all the Oreos posted:So wait are you saying people are poor because they don't understand how to make money better I think the reasonable version of this is that "poor" people are sometimes poorer than they would otherwise be due to lack of financial education/role models. It's something that exacerbates the problem. We've already covered how expensive it is to be poor. Some more financial literacy would help with some but certainly not all of this.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:38
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I was "poor" while making decent money because I had no budgeting skills and went by the "if I have it in my account it's there to spend" line of thinking. Some people are legitimately poor. Other people just have poor money management skills and are poor for the lifestyle they are attempting to live. Being poor and being broke can be two totally different things but some people see them as the same thing.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:40
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Motronic posted:I think the reasonable version of this is that "poor" people are sometimes poorer than they would otherwise be due to lack of financial education/role models. It's something that exacerbates the problem. I don't think that's what he's saying though, because he explicitly mentioned "income" a bunch, to the exclusion of "savings and investment" and talked about skills to get more money
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Oct 8, 2017 00:43
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ate all the Oreos posted:I don't think that's what he's saying though, because he explicitly mentioned "income" a bunch, to the exclusion of "savings and investment" and talked about skills to get more money That's correct. The skills to pass interviews to better-paying jobs, namely presenting yourself as a personable problem-solver in whatever field that is in demand for the job, is the gateway to middle to upper-middle class life.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:54
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So like class signaling?
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Oct 8, 2017 00:56
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Folly posted:So like class signaling? Exactly, that's a huge part of success. It's not morally correct, but it's reality.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:59
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NUKES CURE NORKS posted:I was "poor" while making decent money because I had no budgeting skills and went by the "if I have it in my account it's there to spend" line of thinking. A lot of circumstances are out of peoples' control, and there are plenty of people out there who are making good money and don't know how to budget it as well as people who are making much less and can stretch it via good judgment. But it's not unreasonable to assume that personal factors like deferred gratification, ability to learn and synthesize information, etc can impact both income and judgment on spending outside of external factors in ways that are correlated.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:09
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Folly posted:You're self-insuring collision and comprehensive, not medical or liability. You skipped steps when you laid it out. Step one was "have parents build credit for you" and step two was "obtain first car using credit built by parents while you were a minor." It's not some "one crazy trick to never finance a car again" if the whole plan hinges on having parents with money. At that point all you're doing is not squandering an opportunity that you already had and you're making it out to be some kind of complicated operation.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:46
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Is this the "first car" thing again? Honestly that's not anywhere near the point I was trying to make. It was just the situation I was in when I was taught the lesson. The plan is about how to get out of the finance cycle and start your self insurance fund. You don't have to start it with your first car. Folly fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Oct 8, 2017 |
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Oct 8, 2017 02:24
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baquerd posted:Exactly, that's a huge part of success. It's not morally correct, but it's reality. Oh well as long as it's reality might as well suck it up since that's the way it's gotta be and there's no way to change it. Thanks for trying to educate an ignunt niggruh like myself, massa.
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Oct 8, 2017 02:27
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