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Poking fun at TV Tropes is most entertaining when it's going after stuff that's on the site rather than the people on its forum. The notoriously small reference pools, for instance. I remember there was a TV Tropes page about feminism, for instance, which very earnestly said something like (probably long since changed, obviously), "Famous feminists include Joss Whedon, Linkara and Dr Eggman from Sonic the Hedgehog".
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Oct 6, 2017 12:47
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Don't you mean Small Reference Pools?
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Oct 6, 2017 12:54
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I must say, after reading that article I am goddamn petrified of someone presenting me with poetry and asking my opinion of it; I'd not recognize something good if it bit me on the nose. I'll just be reading my schlock over here thank you, leave the philistine alone...
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Oct 6, 2017 13:00
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Don't you mean Small Reference Pools? Please don't press my Berserk Button.
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Oct 6, 2017 13:45
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[quote="“Wheat Loaf”" post="“477109695”"] “Famous feminists include Joss Whedon, Linkara and Dr Eggman from Sonic the Hedgehog”. [/quote] I don't know about Linkara, but I think Eggman is safely the most feminist of the bunch.
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Oct 6, 2017 13:50
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Serephina posted:I must say, after reading that article I am goddamn petrified of someone presenting me with poetry and asking my opinion of it; I'd not recognize something good if it bit me on the nose. I'll just be reading my schlock over here thank you, leave the philistine alone... I mean, I'm sort of in the same boat - rhyme/meter/phonetics aside, poetry largely comes down to personal taste. I like Stephen Crane and T.S. Eliot along with more recent/unpolished authors like Denis Johnson, Joshua Beckman and Bukowski, but at the minimum all those people at least had something to say (though in Bukowski's case that something was "I am angry and drunk, often simultaneously"). Like many privileged college-educated writers, Kaur has absolutely nothing to say, but has spent years carefully positioning herself to convince people that her lack of talent or message is indicative of some universality of the human experience. Vapidity as virtue. She exists mostly on social media, she writes entirely in vagaries that let people impress whatever personal message they want onto her little tweet-sized poems, she cadges off others' tragedies while insisting she shares their oppression, and her little hands are covered in shiny, shiny gold. She's the Donald Trump of authors.
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Oct 6, 2017 14:06
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She's the Eat Pray Love Sign Sold at Target of poetry.
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Oct 6, 2017 15:23
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Oxxidation posted:I mean, I'm sort of in the same boat - rhyme/meter/phonetics aside, poetry largely comes down to personal taste. I like Stephen Crane and T.S. Eliot along with more recent/unpolished authors like Denis Johnson, Joshua Beckman and Bukowski, but at the minimum all those people at least had something to say (though in Bukowski's case that something was "I am angry and drunk, often simultaneously"). Like many privileged college-educated writers, Kaur has absolutely nothing to say, but has spent years carefully positioning herself to convince people that her lack of talent or message is indicative of some universality of the human experience. Vapidity as virtue. drat, you're making me really like Rupi Kaur
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Oct 6, 2017 15:28
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She is truly a remarkable author.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:03
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Anyway, for content, let me say that Iain M. Banks's Culture books are absolute tripe. The idea of an all-powerful liberal utopia is fairly interesting, but Banks is mostly interested in recounting various perversities in very dull prose. There's an evil empire - and they make musical instruments out of people! The action scenes are the most revealing part - namely, that despite all these mind-bending technologies and scientific phenomena, people still throw punches and shoot at each other. It's such a relief to read Jack Vance afterwards.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:14
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:people still throw punches and shoot at each other. It's such a relief to read Jack Vance afterwards. The first book has a dude make poo poo go terribly sideways by not thinking through the consequences of using a laser rifle in a monastery made of crystals, and the book that has a bug up your rear end ends with (Player of Games spoilers) a person that was quite possibly set up from birth by Special Circumstances to topple a backwards empire nearly dying when his opponent decides to rig up the board game they're playing against each other to be a trap to kill the protagonist in a sea of fire. The series literally has weapons made to pull the quantum energy field underlying reality they use for hyperspace into reality. I'm not really sure where that complaint came from.
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Oct 6, 2017 17:51
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His ship and robot action is vastly more interesting than his human stuff - the opening of Excession has a drone escaping from a hacked ship, bouncing of pressure waves, rerouting forcefields, jettisoning memory cores, all takes place over a matter of seconds. It's pretty great.
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Oct 6, 2017 17:57
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Botl tried this argument about Banks in the Book Barn and didn't really pan out so I guess he's trying it here. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3833655&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=6
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Oct 6, 2017 19:15
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Is "genre" just science-fiction and fantasy or is stuff like detective novels and thrillers "genre" as well?
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Oct 6, 2017 19:23
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Wheat Loaf posted:Is "genre" just science-fiction and fantasy or is stuff like detective novels and thrillers "genre" as well?
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Oct 6, 2017 19:26
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Ugly In The Morning posted:The first book has a dude make poo poo go terribly sideways by not thinking through the consequences of using a laser rifle in a monastery made of crystals, and the book that has a bug up your rear end ends with (Player of Games spoilers) a person that was quite possibly set up from birth by Special Circumstances to topple a backwards empire nearly dying when his opponent decides to rig up the board game they're playing against each other to be a trap to kill the protagonist in a sea of fire. The series literally has weapons made to pull the quantum energy field underlying reality they use for hyperspace into reality. I'm not really sure where that complaint came from. You seem to be the easily impressed by Yu-Gi-Oh! tier antics. Banks presents none of that in any interesting form because his prose is utterly forgettable. His writing has a hint of Vancian ambition, but none of Vance's lightness, buoyancy, and cleverness. The last part is important, because Banks simply could not write anything truly clever (his ending twists are just shlock). The likely reason why the game of Azad is so vague in The Player of Games is that it freed him from the burden of describing some intelligent strategies. Vance in contrast managed to produce pop picaresques because he is actually able to write about clever things, and make stories where the heroes in the end have no refuge but their wits and force of will. Like in his Killing Machine, where the protagonist uses a handicrafts centre and avant-garde photography to simultaneously free himself from prison, rescue a princess, humiliate a crime lord of mythic stature, and con an interstellar blackmail organization to the point of bankruptcy. BravestOfTheLamps has a new favorite as of 20:21 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 19:40
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FMguru posted:"Genre" is everything that's not "literary" - SF, Fantasy, Horror, Romance, Mystery, Thriller, Western, Historical Fiction, Chick Lit, etc.
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Oct 6, 2017 20:07
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Basically, literature that follows genre conventions. Science fiction involves speculation about science and technology. Mysteries revolve around the solution of mysteries. Westerns take place in the Old West. The idea is that there's a type that you're specifically writing to. Of course, "literary" fiction always develops its own insipid genre conventions (there's a hilarious takedown of Jonathan Safran Foer's Here I Am that's just a list of all the things you have to include in your 21st-century Great American Novel; I wish to God that I could find it right now), but following them is a mark of redundancy in a way that, say, including spies in a thriller isn't. This one from Washington Post?
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Oct 6, 2017 20:11
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Yes, thank you!
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Oct 6, 2017 20:14
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You seem to be the easily impressed by Yu-Gi-Oh! tier antics. Banks presents none of that in any interesting form because his prose is utterly forgettable. His writing has a hint of Vancian ambition, but none of Vance's lightness, buoyancy, and cleverness. The last part is important, because Banks simply could not write anything truly clever (his ending twists are just shlock). The likely reason why the game of Azad is so vague in The Player of Games is that it freed him from the burden of actually describing some intelligent strategies. Vance in contrast managed to produce pop picaresques because he is actually able to write about clever things, and make stories where the heroes in the end have no refuge but their wits and force of will. Like in his Killing Machine, where the protagonist uses a handicrafts centre and avant-garde photography to simultaneously free himself from prison, rescue a princess, humiliate a crime lord of mythic stature, and con an interstellar blackmail organization to the point of bankruptcy. FYI, I appreciate you balancing your posts by talking about more poo poo you Ike and why it works. It makes them significantly more interesting and pleasant.
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Oct 6, 2017 20:18
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You seem to be the easily impressed by Yu-Gi-Oh! tier antics. Banks presents none of that in any interesting form because his prose is utterly forgettable. His writing has a hint of Vancian ambition, but none of Vance's lightness, buoyancy, and cleverness. The last part is important, because Banks simply could not write anything truly clever (his ending twists are just shlock). The likely reason why the game of Azad is so vague in The Player of Games is that it freed him from the burden of describing some intelligent strategies. Vance in contrast managed to produce pop picaresques because he is actually able to write about clever things, and make stories where the heroes in the end have no refuge but their wits and force of will. Like in his Killing Machine, where the protagonist uses a handicrafts centre and avant-garde photography to simultaneously free himself from prison, rescue a princess, humiliate a crime lord of mythic stature, and con an interstellar blackmail organization to the point of bankruptcy. What would you recommend as a good starting point for someone interested in Vance?
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Oct 7, 2017 00:51
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The Vosgian Beast posted:What would you recommend as a good starting point for someone interested in Vance? 
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Oct 7, 2017 00:54
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The Vosgian Beast posted:What would you recommend as a good starting point for someone interested in Vance? A Dying Earth omnibus is a good start, but Demon Princes is good if you want a more straight-forwardly heroic but still uniquely off-kilter adventure.
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Oct 7, 2017 01:04
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Saw Blade Runner 2049, had a trailer for Ready Player One before it. I just realized why it bugs me even more than the previous discussion about the book. The trailer looks like those Playstation commercials. That's literally all this movie will be about.
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Oct 7, 2017 18:09
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Having read nothing of RPO except this thread and a few internet takedowns, I suspect that the move will be better than the book, or at least less obnoxious. 'Cause the book seems to go "This was a Firelfly class spaceship, based on the design of the Serenity from hit TV series Firefly by cult director Joss Whedon (who, did I mention, also happens to be president of the world)" at every other turn, but in the move it's just gonna be a spaceship unless you know where it's from. ...unless of course they're gonna have the protagonist go "This is a Firefly blahrgablaa etc ad infinitum" every time some piece of nerd culture shows up.
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Oct 7, 2017 21:23
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Mr. Sunshine posted:Having read nothing of RPO except this thread and a few internet takedowns, I suspect that the move will be better than the book, or at least less obnoxious. 'Cause the book seems to go "This was a Firelfly class spaceship, based on the design of the Serenity from hit TV series Firefly by cult director Joss Whedon (who, did I mention, also happens to be president of the world)" at every other turn, but in the move it's just gonna be a spaceship unless you know where it's from. Spielberg's best days are behind him, but he's a fundamentally competent, experienced director with a solid track record of improving on shaky source material (hi, Jurassic Park). I would be extremely surprised if he can match the original book's ineptitude, although he may well manage the greater crime of taking it from 'interestingly terrible' to 'tediously mediocre'. Darth Walrus has a new favorite as of 21:40 on Oct 7, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 21:38
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Darth Walrus posted:Spielberg's best days are behind him, but he's a fundamentally competent, experienced director with a solid track record of improving on shaky source material (hi, Jurassic Park). I would be extremely surprised if he can match the original book's ineptitude, although he may well manage the greater crime of taking it from 'interestingly terrible' to 'tediously mediocre'. There's only so much polish you can put on a turd, though.
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Oct 7, 2017 21:48
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When I read RPO (the first third or so) Cline's lifeless prose was one of the most egregious things to me. So the movie, if it's competently directed, probably won't be as painful as the book solely on that merit--even if the plot and characters and setting are still garbage.
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Oct 7, 2017 21:57
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Well, going by the trailer, there's going to be another protagonist voiceover to narrate things. So Cline's awful prose may still show up.
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Oct 7, 2017 22:20
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Darth Walrus posted:Spielberg's best days are behind him, but he's a fundamentally competent, experienced director with a solid track record of improving on shaky source material (hi, Jurassic Park). I would be extremely surprised if he can match the original book's ineptitude, although he may well manage the greater crime of taking it from 'interestingly terrible' to 'tediously mediocre'.  He's paying bills, figures enough incels will shuffle into RPO showings to turn a profit.
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Oct 7, 2017 22:24
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ryonguy posted:
Oh poo poo, a bad movie retroactively takes away all the xp points you get from making good movies, poo poo I need to factor this into my calculations for which director has the highest power level
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Oct 7, 2017 22:55
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ryonguy posted:
I don't recognise the screenshot, but I don't think I've seen or heard of a Spielberg movie that totally discards even the most basic elements of cinematography, which you'd need to do to reach the visual equivalent of Ernest Cline's writing. Like, the guy can make a bad Hollywood movie sonetimes, but it remains a bad Hollywood movie. Not, like, The Room.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:02
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Darth Walrus posted:I don't recognise the screenshot, but I don't think I've seen or heard of a Spielberg movie that totally discards even the most basic elements of cinematography, which you'd need to do to reach the visual equivalent of Ernest Cline's writing. Like, the guy can make a bad Hollywood movie sonetimes, but it remains a bad Hollywood movie. Not, like, The Room. Have you not seen Kingdom of the Crystal Skull?
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Oct 7, 2017 23:05
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Dienes posted:Have you not seen Kingdom of the Crystal Skull? I chose to forget it, does that count?
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Oct 7, 2017 23:07
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Dienes posted:Have you not seen Kingdom of the Crystal Skull? I have, yeah, and it was at least functional as a movie. The writing was bad and disjointed, but they mostly knew what to do with a camera and soundtrack. You could at least generally parse what the point was supposed to be, both to individual scenes and to the movie as a whole. What I'm saying is that there's a pretty vast gap between Spielberg bad and Cline bad - one misapplied his tools, and the other doesn't even know they exist.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:11
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Haven't all the movies he's done since Kingdom of the Crystal Skull been reasonably good anyway? Maybe there's nothing groundbreaking about, say, Lincoln or Bridge of Spies or even that Tintin movie he did but I thought they were fine.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:19
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The nerdrage over Crystal Skull being "Not My Indiana Jones" is pretty overblown too. It isn't a good movie, but it also really isn't a terrible one either. Its a goofy cash-in sequel that goes for a very different aesthetic and feel than the earlier movies deliberately (50s pulp vs 30s pulp). It doesn't pull it off as well as it could, but its mostly just a mediocre blockbuster. Which is about what I expect RPO to end up as.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:37
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You seem to be the easily impressed by Yu-Gi-Oh! tier antics. Banks presents none of that in any interesting form because his prose is utterly forgettable. Or I enjoy seeing the way someone from that super-advanced, hyper lefty culture adapts to being dumped into a rigid empire. The game itself isn't a focus, because the scenes where he's playing are about how he thinks.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:50
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I like Kingdom of the Crystal Skull but I like all the Indiana Jones movies and also the tv series.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:08
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Gurgeh stared at the space chess. He considered moving the space king over to the space rook, but then he didn't. Instead, he moved it to the right. He nodded. The robot flew over, and said something bitchy. Gurgeh chuckled, then sighed. "Robot," he said, "please fly away." The robot made a light from his head and then he flew away. Gurgeh stared at the board. He reflected that the best games were the games that were so hard. And that what this game was. Where would he move the space piece next? "Well, Gurgeh!" harrumphed the space alien. "Perhaps now you see that the game is so hard?" Gurgeh nodded. The game was so hard. That night, he thought about the space board. He glanded a drug that made the game less hard, but even then, it was still so hard. Gurgeh was immortal and rich, but still he didn't want to lose, because it would be better to win. But the game was so hard. The robot flew over. "Gurgeh!" said the robot. If you don't win, there will be a space murder, and maybe a space rape!" Gurgeh was appalled. "I must win the space game," he said. He sighed. The next day, the alien bragged: "I will win the space game! I am the best at winning the space game!" Gurgeh sighed. But then Gurgeh saw what he would do: instead of moving the space piece to the left, he would move it forward. The alien was so surprised. "But... but the game is supposed to be so hard!" But Gurgeh was very smart. He moved the piece again, and in a way that was so smart. "NOOOOO," shouted the space alien. Gurgeh had made the best move. He had made the best space move. The robot congratulated him, and the girl wanted to have sex with him. "Well," thought Gurgeh, "I will have sex with her. I am, after all... THE PLAYER OF GAMES." the culture novels are good
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Oct 8, 2017 03:12
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