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RaySmuckles posted:its not going to happen anytime soon As opposed to the topics we discuss in here that are going to happen anytime soon?
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Oct 7, 2017 22:40
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WampaLord posted:As opposed to the topics we discuss in here that are going to happen anytime soon? Neo-lib spotted.
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Oct 7, 2017 22:50
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WampaLord posted:As opposed to the topics we discuss in here that are going to happen anytime soon? I mean, not too long ago California was a single vote from a M4A program.
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Oct 7, 2017 22:54
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RaySmuckles posted:all of this chat about banning guns or making them single shot only or whatever is as masturbatory as the people thinking they're going to use their guns to fight the government Something not happening anytime soon does not negate the fact that its still probably the most effective or correct choice
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Oct 7, 2017 22:59
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I mean it could be decades before I get my brain placed in an immortal robot tiger body but like hell I'm gonna let that stop me from talking about it
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Oct 7, 2017 23:02
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Calibanibal posted:I mean it could be decades before I get my brain placed in an immortal robot tiger body but like hell I'm gonna let that stop me from talking about it Does it have the strength of 10 gorillas
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Oct 7, 2017 23:12
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WampaLord posted:As opposed to the topics we discuss in here that are going to happen anytime soon? Sometimes small quantitative changes precede large qualitative change.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:23
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The New York Times is a waste. https://twitter.com/loisbeckett/status/916743232003936256 The New York Times is a mess.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:59
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would we lose anything of value if all major papers just removed opinion columns entirely
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Oct 8, 2017 00:04
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quote:This summer, I spent an hour on the phone with Richard Spencer. It was an exchange that left me feeling physically sickened. Toward the end of the interview, he said one thing that I still think about often. He referred to the all-encompassing sense of white power so many liberals now also attribute to whiteness as a profound opportunity. “This is the photographic negative of a white supremacist,” he told me gleefully. “This is why I’m actually very confident, because maybe those leftists will be the easiest ones to flip.” 
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Oct 8, 2017 00:07
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Office Pig posted:The New York Times is a waste. Holy loving god
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Oct 8, 2017 00:25
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In fairness, the article in its entirety isn't quite as bad as the snippet suggests, but those ending paragraphs were, uh... they weren't very wise in the context of what Williams was writing about.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:31
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Oxxidation posted:would we lose anything of value if all major papers were just removed
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Oct 8, 2017 01:17
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The nazis staged another short protest (it's already over) in Charlottesville, Virginia this evening: https://twitter.com/MattTalhelm/status/916814844610924544 Fortunately, they didn't murder anyone this time.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:21
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I think the one nice thing about them having to resort to this is it isn't intimidating its rather pathetically comedix..
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Oct 8, 2017 01:25
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Also it was so small because they had to keep it secret because they knew if they talked about it 10,000 counter protestors would show up.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:26
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That's an inflammatory snippet quoted but the article's' thesis is that Ta-Nehisi Coates is a reactionary who views every thing in society through the prism of race, which leaves him almost as blind as the white supremacist he combats. That sounds pretty accurate to me. Coates has a valuable perspective for the national dialogue but if you actually let him run poo poo we'd be only a little bit better off than we are with Trump. Besides, Coates' crappy poetic prose is irritating.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:38
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The Puppy Bowl posted:That's an inflammatory snippet quoted but the article's' thesis is that Ta-Nehisi Coates is a reactionary who views every thing in society through the prism of race, which leaves him almost as blind as the white supremacist he combats. That sounds pretty accurate to me. Coates has a valuable perspective for the national dialogue but if you actually let him run poo poo we'd be only a little bit better off than we are with Trump.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:43
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Dead Reckoning posted:While Coates writes about race a lot, (and that seems pretty reasonable, given that to be a black man in America is to be constantly reminded of your race,) I'm preeeeety sure he doesn't want to expel while people or make America a "black nation", which is more than you can say for Spencer & Co. This is a straw man though.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:47
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For sure. Let me back track to say that Coates and white supremacy are in no way comparable in terms of toxicity and awfulness. White Supremacy is evil, full stop. I just think that Ta'Neshi Coates' focus on race leads to him outlining it as the only real social ill in America. He often disregards, or only grants lip service to, any other factors that have made the modern world. I do appreciate the secular perspective he brings to the subject of race relations. Detaching past African American experiences from the hope of heavenly reward really highlights the true despair those generations of people suffered under.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:51
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I just think that Ta'Neshi Coates' focus on race leads to him outlining it as the only real social ill in America. He often disregards, or only grants lip service to, any other factors that have made the modern world.
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Oct 8, 2017 01:55
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DACK FAYDEN posted:So FYI, and this is probably just me, this post comes off like you are racist as hell. It's absolutely not just you, that was racist as hell.
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Oct 8, 2017 02:00
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I am exactly the sort of leftist Spencer wants to flip there. He should perhaps be less optimistic. Or maybe he shouldn't, I do quite enjoy seeing Nazis sob.
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Oct 8, 2017 02:05
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That article is the text version of the Kelly "America when we don't/do talk about race" cartoon
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Oct 8, 2017 02:12
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The Puppy Bowl posted:For sure. Let me back track to say that Coates and white supremacy are in no way comparable in terms of toxicity and awfulness. White Supremacy is evil, full stop. I just think that Ta'Neshi Coates' focus on race leads to him outlining it as the only real social ill in America. He often disregards, or only grants lip service to, any other factors that have made the modern world. I'd argue something slightly different: TNC leaves non-race-related issues for other people to cover, because he wants to provide a coherent and focused set of analyses on race-related issues. And that's what he does, very well indeed. The article writer assumes that focusing on a certain batch of concerns means discarding all the others. To me TNC is obviously a specialist working on his specialty.
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Oct 8, 2017 02:19
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The Kingfish posted:This is a straw man though. Can you clarify what you meant with this?
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Oct 8, 2017 02:20
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I am exactly the sort of leftist Spencer wants to flip there. Leftists don't seem to flip to Nazism as easily as moderate right wingers. In my experience of seeing people online changing their political views over time.
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Oct 8, 2017 02:20
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BarbarianElephant posted:Leftists don't seem to flip to Nazism as easily as moderate right wingers. In my experience of seeing people online changing their political views over time.
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Oct 8, 2017 02:28
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Dead Reckoning posted:I would be extremely surprised to learn that you've actually l had enough friends on Facebook or whatever flip to full throated swastika-and-lebensraum Nazism to reliably draw this conclusion, unless we're doing that thing again where we call anyone who disagrees with us and everyone we think is racist a Nazi. I hope you're not fishmeching about calling Richard Spencer a Nazi.
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Oct 8, 2017 02:33
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I forgot how readily the left swung for White Supremacy.... ....oh wait. That's not what happens.
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Oct 8, 2017 02:39
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BarbarianElephant posted:Leftists don't seem to flip to Nazism as easily as moderate right wingers. In my experience of seeing people online changing their political views over time. From my time as an active Antifa there is some overlap. Punching each other down by the train tracks necessarily means spending a lot of time together. Couple that with both being social outcasts, often listening to similar sounding music and . . . a strange sort of camaraderie can form. It's by no means common or normal but it happens. There is precedent in other areas too. It was a joke in Weimar Germany that all the super serious Nazis were former Communists. Likewise, Neoconservativism has its roots in the anti-Stalinist left. From a recruitment perspective what he's saying makes a lot of sense if they wanted to remain on the fringe. Since it's just fringe people swapping places around the periphery. But that isn't the approach that white nationalists have taken for obvious reasons. Converting an antiracist to a racist makes sense since they already fundamentally see everything through the lens of race. But why do that when you can just tap into the latent racist resentment that already exists?
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Oct 8, 2017 02:44
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I hope you're not fishmeching about calling Richard Spencer a Nazi. How can he be a Nazi when he doesn't want to be called a Nazi. 
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Oct 8, 2017 02:46
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Oxxidation posted:would we lose anything of value if all major papers just removed opinion columns entirely Alexandra Petri. 
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Oct 8, 2017 02:56
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Shbobdb posted:From a recruitment perspective what he's saying makes a lot of sense if they wanted to remain on the fringe. Since it's just fringe people swapping places around the periphery. But that isn't the approach that white nationalists have taken for obvious reasons. Converting an antiracist to a racist makes sense since they already fundamentally see everything through the lens of race. But why do that when you can just tap into the latent racist resentment that already exists? ...no it doesn't, and you are nuts. Ague Proof posted:How can he be a Nazi when he doesn't want to be called a Nazi. The Hail Victories and Nazi Salutes are just coincidental.
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Oct 8, 2017 02:57
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Ague Proof posted:How can he be a Nazi when he doesn't want to be called a Nazi. I mean, he's not a literal Nazi and not quite a literal neoNazi, but the second definition is Spencer himself fishmeching around the edges of hate speech and the edges of advocating for genocide. Presumably because he has spoken at some point to a lawyer about liability.
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Oct 8, 2017 03:01
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Te-Nihisi Coates is right and in ways so is Richard Spencer even if they do not realize the reasons why. America is a nation founded - esteeped in this sin - a generational one. That has been passed down from father to son - long since the 240 years of our founding. These sins are universal. Nations have formed and fallen along their lines. They are not only specific to nations. But to families and whole races. Just as the white American carries within his heart - within his very DNA the sin of hundreds of years of slavery, domination, murder, and discrimination against a hundred other peoples so does the African American carry within his DNA the sins of his ancestors. Just as Spain is now reliving the sins of Franco - embedded within their DNA so are all destined to relive the sins of their ancestors. This is why history forms in cycles. Every single wrong committed by mankind is imprinted upon us because of our inherently fallen nature. We are incapable of improving of our own free will. As one famous American has put it: Sex, Money, Murder. That is our DNA. As you have seen and will continue to see - there is no political remedy to our generational curses. There is no law that can stop the hate in the heart of Americans and no human action can heal us. Our sins will drive us further towards destruction and they are so massive and weigh so heavy that they are leading us to the very brink of total annihilation of mankind and its domain in entirety. All these things have long been foretold and the warnings long ignored.
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Oct 8, 2017 03:09
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I mean, he's not a literal Nazi and not quite a literal neoNazi, but the second definition is Spencer himself fishmeching around the edges of hate speech and the edges of advocating for genocide. Presumably because he has spoken at some point to a lawyer about liability. He associates with White Supremacists, gave the Nazi Salute multiple times captured on video, and openly said the English version of Sieg Heil. He marched with groups openly flying the Swastika. He's a Nazi. He's not even dancing around the edges of it. He's a literal Nazi.
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Oct 8, 2017 03:12
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gently caress off MIGF
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Oct 8, 2017 03:12
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CommieGIR posted:...no it doesn't, and you are nuts. Sure it does. My lived experience in meat space aside, you've got anti-cultural appropriation tumberites essentially arguing for radical racial separation. That's not hard to weaponize to ethnic nationalism.
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Oct 8, 2017 03:16
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Shbobdb posted:My lived experience in meat space aside, you've got anti-cultural appropriation tumberites essentially arguing for radical racial separation. That's not hard to weaponize to ethnic nationalism. You don't have a clue what Antifa is about, thanks for proving that.
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Oct 8, 2017 03:18
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