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ZiegeDame posted:She had Okonogi. It's not.
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Oct 8, 2017 10:13
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ProfessorProf posted:
<Very good> thing
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Oct 8, 2017 11:23
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"Also, you do understand about 'that', right?"
"That...? Well, I'm not sure what you mean."
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I feel like the thread reaction to a sympathetic portrayal of Eva and her regrets is at odds with the reaction to what the same chapter has tried to do with Kinzo. 
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Oct 8, 2017 13:00
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Honestly, despite this thread pushing me to dislike Eva/Kinzo, I just can't. Maybe I'm too soft.
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Oct 8, 2017 13:13
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Well, yeah- it's obvious to me what the story is doing for both these characters: giving them the opportunity to voice the regret for their bad deeds they never got to in life. As has already brought up, it's not about personal forgiveness, but catharsis ; Battler's incorporating such moments into his game because a) that lack of catharsis in life is probably a good deal of why they went mad in their early life (and even if untrue, it's enough within the realm of possibility that he as the Games-master can include it) and b) it's trying to help Ange, as the living party, remember that these were people and not monsters, in nan attempt to get rid of the destructive hatreds weighing down her own heart. All that's fine and perfectly understandable. But I do take issue with the simplicity with which Battler (yes, Battler; the story has already made it abundantly clear that our boy's views are decidedly not Ryukishi07's) is treating the respective bad poo poo that both Kinzo and Eva feel sorry for. Yes, loving up is inevitable, and I'd like to believe that there's no such thing as an unforgivable, insurmountable sin... but it is a trap to assume that sin is like a swimming pool and not a ravine. "Evil" is not something you just get stained with generally that you can wash away with doing some set instructions; things don't happen in a vacuum- a just society has to consider other circumstances that surrounded both criminal and victim, and thus there is a hierarchy of sin- things which people find not so bad (due to matters of survival, necessity, and all the other factors that make up a life) going down to things which people find so goddamn heinous they dare not forgive the perpetrators for fear of condemning themselves, such lovely things as genocide, pedophilia... and rape. (See where I'm going with this yet?) Now, this hierarchy is different for everyone, because we all come from different backgrounds- hell, I almost wrote "condemning their own soul" just above, and I don't even really believe in the soul anymore- and I realize that when people get into things like morality they're all really speaking for themselves. Both what Kinzo and what Eva did are significantly down my ravine... but "trying to take care of a young child who rejects you, but falling into abuse because you can't handle that rejection on top of all your other poo poo" is a lot higher up that ravine than "locking your daughter in a cage her whole life, and then raping her because she looks so much like her mother." Like, a lot drat higher... and thus easier for me to forgive. Another defining factor is that Eva is portrayed as being deeply sorry about the way she treated Ange... yet Kinzo has only ever apologized for anything he's done to Yasu, when there's four other children he's screwed up and destroyed right over there. Where is their apology? No, the big speech we heard about splitting up the wealth does not cut it; where is the big cryfest about what he had done to his other children and his poor unnamed wife? resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Oct 8, 2017 |
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Oct 8, 2017 13:37
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The thread seems more down on Eva than Kinzo this chapter is what I meant. Seems disproportionate given the deeds.
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Oct 8, 2017 14:23
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 BGM: Stuffed Toy  "Nicely done! See? Ange-chan is a clever girl, isn't she?" "Congratulations, Ange-sama! Very impressive. How quickly you saw through the puzzle that I, Gohda, put all my efforts into...!" "It was totally easy. Aunt Eva's puzzle was harder." "*giggle*, thanks." "Congratulations. This medal is your prize for answering my question correctly." "Thank you!"Alright, that was easy. Now let's take a shot at Kumasawa-san's puzzle.    "How... hard is it?" "Hohohohohohoho. You'll have to wait and see. And now, let the mackerel dessert puzzle begin." "Mackerel dessert...?" "This is Kumasawa-san we're talking about, so you can bet it'll be a strange one. Be careful." "Okay!" Eva's Hint "s" "r" "b" "a" Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Oct 8, 2017 14:30
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Dammit, I was sure that the ice cream was the obvious red herring answer. As for this one, I'm not getting much of anywhere. Although I guess it depends on how liberally you define "changing a single letter." If you can change all of the a's in "saba-ra" to three different letters and then rearrange them, you can get "sorbet," so I'm going to go with D. "a".
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Oct 8, 2017 16:29
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AHHHHHH I GOT IT! C. "b" sabara => sahara (desert) Both "desert" and "dessert" are used in the text of the riddle. That's a clue! You sneaky granny, Kumasawa! witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Oct 8, 2017 |
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Oct 8, 2017 16:55
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:The thread seems more down on Eva than Kinzo this chapter is what I meant. Seems disproportionate given the deeds. Anyway riddle time: What did this one look like in Japanese? I'm inclined to say Also it would be just like Kumasawa to give a cheaty answer like changing one letter three times. ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Oct 8, 2017 |
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Oct 8, 2017 16:56
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im bad at word puzzles. I tried really hard but just gave myself an headache. AlsoProfessorProf posted:
thank you, Ange. You're so right.
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Oct 8, 2017 16:59
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Remember, knowledge of Japanese is not required to solve any of the riddles. I'll be showing the Japanese version tomorrow, after the answer is revealed.
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Oct 8, 2017 17:01
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witchcore ricepunk posted:AHHHHHH I GOT IT! if this is the answer, I would be kinda annoyed.
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Oct 8, 2017 17:03
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Tired Moritz posted:if this is the answer, I would be kinda annoyed. My guess is that the use of "desert" in the riddle text is more than just a typo.
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Oct 8, 2017 17:04
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Tired Moritz posted:if this is the answer, I would be kinda annoyed. I thought so too, but they say dessert, not desert. Unless that's part of the joke, too. Edit: oh, first usage of dessert is "desert". Nvm. C. "b".
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Oct 8, 2017 17:04
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witchcore ricepunk posted:My guess is that the use of "desert" in the riddle text is more than just a typo. but it said grand dessert. illegal trick. I feel like this would work way better if it was spoken.
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Oct 8, 2017 17:07
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witchcore ricepunk posted:My guess is that the use of "desert" in the riddle text is more than just a typo. This would sound better to me if the typo were in the second line. Although if the Japanese used "デザート" the pun would still be there, and... ... ... ... Whoa, fell down a google translate hole for a bit there. Anyway, being denied the original wording to narrow down possibilities, I'm gonna have to stick with D, because 'Saha-ra' is not a desert and that '-' isn't just for show.
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Oct 8, 2017 17:38
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witchcore ricepunk posted:AHHHHHH I GOT IT!
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Oct 8, 2017 17:48
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It's ok ZD--I was literally lying in bed, mouthing all the letter variations for this riddle until I came up with something that actually resembled a word. My own sanity is not a given here.
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Oct 8, 2017 17:50
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To be extra clear on the Japanese front: Where wordplay is involved in the riddles, the wordplay has been changed for the English version. Pretend there never was a Japanese version, and put the existence of other languages completely out of your mind.
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Oct 8, 2017 17:52
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Change it until it's like the Sahara desert. Had to try and substitute the letters mentally, and then be confused when the only sensible thing that came from it was a desert name. Puns are like that.
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Oct 8, 2017 17:56
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I wouldn't be so convinced that the misspelling of 'dessert' is a clue, considering that 'mackerel' is also misspelled. It's not impossible, though.
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Oct 8, 2017 18:08
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ProfessorProf posted:and put the existence of other languages completely out of your mind.  Anyway, thinking it over Both C and D are correct, depending on which trick Kumasawa has in mind. Catbox riddle. We should get a medal either way. On a related note, what happens if you get a riddle wrong here? Does the scene actually change, or does Ange get the answer right while the player is forced to live with their shame? ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Oct 8, 2017 |
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Oct 8, 2017 18:12
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The scene changes to a simple scene of Ange not getting it, and you don't get a medal. There's only one or two with any interesting content in them, I'll get them up in some form eventually. Also, multi-choice votes will obviously not be counted.
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Oct 8, 2017 18:15
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In all honesty, I don't really like either answer, because one requires changing multiple letters and rearranging them, which feels like cheating, whereas the other relies on confusion between two words that are neither spelled nor pronounced the same way (one being deh-ZERT and the other being DEH-zert). Honestly, I'm starting to lean toward thinking that the Sahara answer is the one the game actually wants, but I'm going to stick with my original vote because I'm stubborn.
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Oct 8, 2017 18:40
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I feel like I read the sahara desert riddle before so it's probably it.
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Oct 8, 2017 18:46
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See if we weren't being handicapped here I'd hit that Ask Eva button for an indication of which trick the game is actually thinking of. As is I'll stick with my initial D answer on the basis of this is an armature translation with limited proofreading.
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Oct 8, 2017 19:14
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Yeah, C. "b". The Sahara thing is what came to my mind first. I'm also guessing that the original might be about changing it to sabaku, meaning desert.
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Oct 8, 2017 19:19
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I thought of that too but wouldn't you just get sabaaku?
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Oct 8, 2017 19:23
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witchcore ricepunk posted:AHHHHHH I GOT IT! That's a lot better than anything I could come up with. Since it mentions "Changing just a single letter", i'll vote for C. "b".
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Oct 8, 2017 19:36
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If the answer is 'sahara' I'm going to be mildly perturbed simply on the basis that, in-universe, Ange is hearing these riddles spoken aloud, and 'desert' and 'dessert' sound very different. Like, you stress different syllables. It only works in text, but since it's such a common typo, in text it also only barely works since the instinct is just to automatically correct the word in your head.
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Oct 8, 2017 19:48
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Amidiri posted:If the answer is 'sahara' I'm going to be mildly perturbed simply on the basis that, in-universe, Ange is hearing these riddles spoken aloud, and 'desert' and 'dessert' sound very different. Like, you stress different syllables. It only works in text, but since it's such a common typo, in text it also only barely works since the instinct is just to automatically correct the word in your head. My big problem with the Sahara answer is that the 'desert' and 'dessert' in the text should be swapped if that's what it's going for.
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Oct 8, 2017 20:07
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Amidiri posted:If the answer is 'sahara' I'm going to be mildly perturbed simply on the basis that, in-universe, Ange is hearing these riddles spoken aloud, and 'desert' and 'dessert' sound very different. Like, you stress different syllables. It only works in text, but since it's such a common typo, in text it also only barely works since the instinct is just to automatically correct the word in your head. I agree, especially since dessert is spelled correctly in the operative line. If the spellings were reversed (ie. "He had all the pieces of dinner, except dessert" and then "By changing a single letter, he could make a grand desert", I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, I can't think of a better answer. I'm putting my vote on D by default, because even if you change all 3 occurences of a to three different things, you still only change a single letter. EDIT: The problem with 'sorbet' is that it requires moving the r as well as any of the a's, which probably counts as changing more than one letter in even the most generous interpretations. Kytrarewn fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Oct 8, 2017 |
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Oct 8, 2017 20:20
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Kytrarewn posted:EDIT: The problem with 'sorbet' is that it requires moving the r as well as any of the a's, which probably counts as changing more than one letter in even the most generous interpretations. See the cooking talk got me thinking of the letters as ingredients and obviously when you're cooking you mix up the ingredients. The more I think about it the more I think the answer is gonna be C because whoops Kumasawa switched the words around and accidentally asked a completely different question and we're expected to answer the question she meant to ask and not the question she actually asked. The dessert desert trick could work verbally if you said the whole thing in a silly foppish accent. Or in Japanese. edit: Ok fine, switching to C because it does say 'desert' where it clearly means 'dessert' so we're supposed to assume a similar error is made later, and it's the kind of solution more in-line with the previous riddles than the Air Bud required for D. Also I could see Eva's hint being to point out that there's a spelling error, and I can't think of simple hints for changing one letter into three then moving the 'r.' Would still be easier to believe the error is intentional if mackerel were spelled correctly. ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Oct 8, 2017 |
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Oct 8, 2017 21:30
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I'm curious what the other short post-scenes will be like. The Eva one was pretty over-the-top, but that's precisely because Eva is Ange's abuser and the one she feels the most catharsis from having Eva admit she was wrong. I'm presuming the Rosa scene will be somewhat similar, since Ange is fairly familiar with Rosa's abuse via Maria's diary. But for the rest of the family, Ange's not really... got a lot of personal feelings for them, I feel, other than her own parents, since they died when she was so young. She wishes they were alive, I think, but hearing them talk about their biggest mistakes isn't going to have a ton of meaning for her. And Gohda doesn't even have anything to apologize for that even remotely impacts Ange, in any way.
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Oct 8, 2017 22:02
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PetraCore posted:And Gohda doesn't even have anything to apologize for that even remotely impacts Ange, in any way. Kumasawa sure does, though.
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Oct 8, 2017 22:06
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ZiegeDame posted:Kumasawa sure does, though. IDK, I trust Ryu07 with this (although Battler is by far a clumsier writer than Ryu07), so I'm legit interested how this unfolds.
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Oct 8, 2017 22:16
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Leave my mackerel alone. 
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Oct 8, 2017 22:42
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ZiegeDame posted:this is an armature translation with limited proofreading. Remove the auto-correct from thine own eye, friend.
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Oct 8, 2017 23:48
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Doc Hawkins posted:Remove the auto-correct from thine own eye, friend. I never claimed to do any proofreading.
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Oct 8, 2017 23:54
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