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Heathrow would like a word.
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Oct 7, 2017 20:05
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Godholio posted:Heathrow would like a word. Worked there for 6 years, that's where the idea really started to take hold with me. We had a couple of F350s with scissor lifts in the bed. They got an average of 1.9 MPG according to their computer. The engine has to be running to use the lift, so they just idle the entire day basically, apart from maybe a mile of driving. Renault at the time was offering electric Kangoos (transit connect competitor) with leased batteries. They would be the ideal fleet vehicle for airside operations. That airport basically shuts down at night, there's very little in the way of 24hr operation there, so you can easily get a good 4-6 hours of overnight charging every night.
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Oct 7, 2017 21:38
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Not related to EV but a fun anecdote about the airport job I'm doing right now. We couldn't do a hot tap tie in (connecting a new service without shutting down the existing) of a re-route of the natural gas feed into the main international terminal building, so we had to shut the gas service off for 2 hours at 2am. This required 262 pilot lights to be reignited in the concessions/maintenance/etc facilities, and it all had to happen within a 30 minute period. It cost us $70,000 just for the pilot lights. Airport work is a nightmare.
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Oct 7, 2017 21:47
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Bob Lutz is involved in a company that converts GM trucks and vans to ev s that sounds like a thing that might work for airports. But
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Oct 8, 2017 03:14
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wolrah posted:Since I was a kid in Ohio during the time the EV1 was available I obviously don't know what sort of marketing they may have done where it was actually offered for lease (California and I think Arizona maybe?) but I can definitely recall seeing it in all the normal car magazines, Popular Mechanics, and a few others, as well as on a lot of the comparable "TV magazine" format shows. They certainly didn't keep that thing a secret. I'm pretty sure that's what the critics meant - GM's PR department was all like "Look at us, we're saving the planet! Yay!", heavily advertising the fact that the EV1 was a thing, yet they weren't actually doing much to directly persuade people to come in and lease them. Plus I've heard it said that by focusing on the environmental angle, they failed to appeal to people who could actually afford it. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Puerto Rico. According to a recent article, over half their power came from burning oil, which at current prices is as expensive as it is environmentally ungood.
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Oct 8, 2017 03:25
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Finger Prince posted:Worked there for 6 years, that's where the idea really started to take hold with me. We had a couple of F350s with scissor lifts in the bed. They got an average of 1.9 MPG according to their computer. The engine has to be running to use the lift, so they just idle the entire day basically, apart from maybe a mile of driving. Renault at the time was offering electric Kangoos (transit connect competitor) with leased batteries. They would be the ideal fleet vehicle for airside operations. That airport basically shuts down at night, there's very little in the way of 24hr operation there, so you can easily get a good 4-6 hours of overnight charging every night. As a partial solution, it might work, and it might be more useful elsewhere, but I don't know if you'll really get enough sunlight to reliabily rely upon it.
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Oct 8, 2017 04:15
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Godholio posted:As a partial solution, it might work, and it might be more useful elsewhere, but I don't know if you'll really get enough sunlight to reliabily rely upon it. If only there was a way to generate electricity from moss!
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Oct 8, 2017 05:44
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Adiabatic posted:The Sicilian, Hahahahahahahahaha. What a bastion of discourse and intelligent discussion AI is. And you guys wonder why the people with interesting cars are quickly driven out (not me, but regulars will remember). Enjoy your club house. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 9, 2017 04:37
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfelqZpapZA
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Oct 9, 2017 04:44
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The Sicilian posted:What a bastion of discourse and intelligent discussion AI is It will certainly get better with your rear end out the door
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Oct 9, 2017 04:50
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The Sicilian posted:Hahahahahahahahaha. Don't stop posting. But also, take your own advice. The Sicilian posted:I'm not offended at any of the negative Tesla talk. Other than my dislike for GM's biggest booster, I try not to take the internet, and especially not this forum too seriously.
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Oct 9, 2017 05:03
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The Sicilian posted:Hahahahahahahahaha. If you'd like an interesting car to drive out with, I hear the new Chevy Bolt has some good features!
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Oct 9, 2017 05:32
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The Sicilian posted:Hahahahahahahahaha. There are a ton of people here with interesting cars. You're not one of them, in case you were wondering. The ones who get driven out are the ones who get frustrated because they're not being constantly fellated for their ownership of expensive cars. They paid $100,000 for a car to get attention and someone with a $2,000 car is stealing all of it  . drgitlin contributes 10 times what you do, and you keep trying to drive him out because he didn't pay $100k to do it and also he liked a GM product that one time. I honestly hope that you loving off means he posts more because it leads to a discussion beyond "tesla good, everyone else bad"If you want an echo chamber to justify your lovely decisions, go find one. We'll enjoy our clubhouse that welcomes all lovely decisions as long as the people making them aren't complete dicks.
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Oct 9, 2017 06:38
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As a Nissan LEAF owner who bought one right before the next gen, i would like to say that I enjoy this echo chamber of people with bad opinions because they largely match mine I look forward to reading about interesting applications of EVs that I wish people would use more and looking at ridiculous concept cars that I shouldn't like as much as I do (Seriously, Tesla is cool but this is a fun place to talk about all sorta poo poo without holding anything over anything else like a smarmy deeyock)
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Oct 9, 2017 06:49
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There's a guy down the street from me with an electric conversion MR2 in his garage that I keep meaning to ask him about. The dude is kind of a hermit though and all I ever see of him is a glimpse once or twice a month as his car disappears around the corner.
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Oct 9, 2017 07:02
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Sagebrush posted:There's a guy down the street from me with an electric conversion MR2 in his garage that I keep meaning to ask him about. The dude is kind of a hermit though and all I ever see of him is a glimpse once or twice a month as his car disappears around the corner. I was just thinking about that. You can get whole nissan leafs with all the voltage converters and battery conditioners and motor and battery for peanuts. I'm surprised there aren't more people trying to stuff all the leaf stuff into more interesting packages.
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Oct 9, 2017 07:05
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If one were to build a new garage, and wire it up for an EV, how many amps at 230/400? Two-phase or three? No specific EV in mind, just to future proof.
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Oct 9, 2017 07:45
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bolind posted:If one were to build a new garage, and wire it up for an EV, how many amps at 230/400? Two-phase or three? No specific EV in mind, just to future proof. Long answer: No hard and fast rules, it depends on this and that etc, but for a start you can figure out what the main limitations are: The main fuses (considering other things you might like to use power for while charging), how much you can add to the fusebox, budget, regulation and sanity. As for what you actually need, many new EV owners in Norway went balls out and got 11 kW or 22 kW along with their Tesla, then found that while it was nice, it was a waste of money as the car finished charging long before they needed it. What matters is how much range you normally need. 200 Wh/km is a useful number, it's high consumption for most EVs (low for Model X) so it takes winter or charging losses into account. If you normally charge between 21:00 and 07:00 (10 hrs) and you need minimum 100 km range daily, you need to charge at 2 kW, which is less than 230V/10A. Which car you choose doesn't only affect consumption, but also AC charging options (if we rule out home DC chargers). Only Teslas can charge from 3-phase without a Mode 3 box, and without a Mode 3 box you're limited to 16A (more realistically 10A) anyway. Even with a Mode 3 box, many cars max out at 3.6 kW, while Leaf for instance has optional 7.2 kW. Short answer: 230V/16A in mode 3 charging station is fine, it typically gives you at least 16 km range per hour + get an optional regular 13A for power tools.
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Oct 9, 2017 11:00
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[quote="“bolind”" post="“477200766”"] If one were to build a new garage, and wire it up for an EV, how many amps at 230/400? Two-phase or three? No specific EV in mind, just to future proof. [/quote] A 220v/50a circuit is plenty to future proof at the moment. It's also a selling point for the home, since it's the outlet normally used for 50a circuits in the US (NEMA 14–50) is also the defacto standard shore-power circuit for RVs, etc, and can also be used for welders, machine tools, etc.. With the proper plug, lower amperage chargers can also use this circuit, which is another reason I recommend Clipper Creek charge units; They'll put whatever plug you like on, instead of only selling hard-wired units, or making you change the plug in the field. No EV I know of can charge on 480v three-phase, excepting through a Tesla Supercharger or CHAdeMO unit, which generally aren't available at the consumer level. From what I can read from Tesla's complete joke of a press release on the Model 3, the small battery model is going to be limited to 32a charging, while the large battery will charge at up to 40a, which is coincidentally the max continuous rating of a properly-installed 50a circuit.
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Oct 9, 2017 12:16
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US in Europe have different electrical systems. You will probably not find a single phase plug 220V/50A anywhere here. Teslas can charge at (not 480V) 400V/16A 3-phase = 11 kW with a red adapter on the UMC (the power brick that comes with the car). A Mode 3 wall box can take 400V/32A to provide 22 kW, or more likely 16.5 kW for the newer ones.
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Oct 9, 2017 12:28
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MrYenko posted:A 220v/50a circuit is plenty to future proof at the moment. It's also a selling point for the home, since it's the outlet normally used for 50a circuits in the US (NEMA 14–50) is also the defacto standard shore-power circuit for RVs, etc, and can also be used for welders, machine tools, etc.. With the proper plug, lower amperage chargers can also use this circuit, which is another reason I recommend Clipper Creek charge units; They'll put whatever plug you like on, instead of only selling hard-wired units, or making you change the plug in the field. This. 240 on a 50 amp circuit. NEMA 14-50 is the best option and would cost about the same to put in as a smaller circuit.
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Oct 9, 2017 14:03
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I think the biggest issue is there may not be enough current available from your homes panel to supply 50 amps to the garage. I know that if I were building I would plan to have two separate meters so my garage has a full 100 or 200 amps of service all to itself. It just gives you the flexibility to charge 2 cars at full rate while running a welder, air compressor, and paint booth. Typical activities for a lot of posters. (Not me because I can't do any of that stuff). My current house has 200 amp service and I don't have enough current to add anything to the garage. It is silly how much juice a full house uses.
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Oct 9, 2017 14:38
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[quote="“Elephanthead”" post="“477204970”"] I think the biggest issue is there may not be enough current available from your homes panel to supply 50 amps to the garage. I know that if I were building I would plan to have two separate meters so my garage has a full 100 or 200 amps of service all to itself. It just gives you the flexibility to charge 2 cars at full rate while running a welder, air compressor, and paint booth. Typical activities for a lot of posters. (Not me because I can’t do any of that stuff). My current house has 200 amp service and I don’t have enough current to add anything to the garage. It is silly how much juice a full house uses. [/quote] This is generally what happens. If it's allowed in your local code, you can get a separate, additional panel installed on the same meter, which is generally a bunch cheaper than swapping to a larger main panel to accommodate more powah.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:17
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So the 5 seat Model X may be an excellent choice for human trafficing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xje1N1nY0WM Disclaimer: I just got a Bolt 
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Oct 10, 2017 02:12
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Was hoping to get my Model 3 by year end 2017, and that is looking....very unlikely (my delivery estimate is still saying Nov 17-Jan 18). 1st quarter 2018 sounds like it may even be in jeopardy given the production follies. I'm also a little worried about the rushed production and the fact that the quality control might not be up to snuff given the deets in the WSJ article from Friday. This, for instance, is obviously not going to happen: quote:Most auto makers celebrate the start of production of a new vehicle to sell—so-called Job 1—after six months or so of running the assembly line to build a few hundred vehicles to work out the bugs, said Doug Betts, senior vice president of global automotive operations at consultancy J.D. Power and a former manufacturing executive for Toyota Motor Corp. , Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV and Apple Inc.
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Oct 10, 2017 02:27
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Long_Tine_Spork posted:So the 5 seat Model X may be an excellent choice for human trafficing: Never thought I'd be smuggling myself in them.
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Oct 10, 2017 02:28
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Dumb EV question: How much efficiency loss do you get by flooring an EV everywhere? I imagined its pretty low, because though you speed up fast get regen some/most of that energy when you slow down, but in practice it doesn't work that way I guess. In our Etron, with its 8.8 kwh battery and 75 kw motor, flooring it everywhere seems to empty the battery faster. I guess using more current from the battery heats it up, and thats where the extra energy goes? In a real EV with a bigger battery, does it matter as much? Is 100% power in the etron like 300 kw from a leaf battery? I noticed someone talking about not being able to get the amount of HP from a Leaf battery when we were discussing that CRX conversion, is that what they meant? Its not like Im going to stop flooring it everywhere in the car, especially when its around town and driving slowly burns 1/2 a battery, and fast uses 7/8 of one.
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Oct 10, 2017 17:39
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blindjoe posted:How much efficiency loss do you get by flooring an EV everywhere? I imagined its pretty low, because though you speed up fast get regen some/most of that energy when you slow down, but in practice it doesn't work that way I guess. No, it doesn't, although I wouldn't know any specific number. Accelerating quickly to 60 costs a lot more than accelerating slowly, but the regen potential will be the same once you are up to speed, assuming you regen brake the same. There is heat loss both in power and regen, then there are mechanical losses in going faster and higher acceleration. For instance, when you regen from high speed, you lose some potential energy by air and rolling resistance helping you slow down. When hypermiling EVs in hilly terrain, it's actually better to use no regen and just let the car roll down hill - turns, traffic and speed limits permitting. Storing the potential energy as kinetic energy (speed) to roll up the next hill instead of electric by regen means it isn't converted between energy forms and thus there's less loss.
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Oct 10, 2017 17:58
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Power is energy expended over time. If the time is shorter, the power is greater. Accelerating to 60 mph in 3 seconds takes more power than accelerating to 60 in 30 seconds, even though you end up at the same speed.
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Oct 10, 2017 18:08
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Better answer is that you get a full battery every morning and use like 10-30% of it a day. Floor that sucker.
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Oct 10, 2017 18:15
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Ola posted:When hypermiling EVs in hilly terrain, it's actually better to use no regen and just let the car roll down hill - turns, traffic and speed limits permitting. Storing the potential energy as kinetic energy (speed) to roll up the next hill instead of electric by regen means it isn't converted between energy forms and thus there's less loss. For short hills. For long hills, if you can freewheel down the hill at 110 km/h, you could instead let the car reach say 70 km/h and siphon some of the potential energy into the battery instead of wasting it all moving air.
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Oct 10, 2017 18:27
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If you're talking about the Audi E-Tron, doesn't it also have a dual clutch transmission that has to slam through 7 gears every time you accelerate and slow down? That seems like it might have an effect.
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Oct 10, 2017 18:38
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Platystemon posted:For short hills. Really even that's dependent upon the size of the next hill and how much speed you need to get over it with zero throttle input. Quick somebody make a dynamic force equation for this poo poo.
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Oct 10, 2017 18:45
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But officer I needed to be going 150 mph to coast over the next hill.
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Oct 10, 2017 18:49
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I'M SAVING THE ENVIRONMENT.
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Oct 10, 2017 19:01
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Adiabatic posted:Really even that's dependent upon the size of the next hill and how much speed you need to get over it with zero throttle input. Really, you should regenerate to keep from going too fast but you are going to have conversion losses regenning and more losses to accelerate again. No system is 100% efficient. Somehow I doubt reduced wind resistance would make up for it.
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Oct 10, 2017 19:41
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Throatwarbler posted:If you're talking about the Audi E-Tron, doesn't it also have a dual clutch transmission that has to slam through 7 gears every time you accelerate and slow down? That seems like it might have an effect. It does shift, I don't know if it shifts less or more to get to the same speed though. I guess the power over time would be higher, but my basic physics understanding would be that my battery stores x joules, so if I use y energy to get to 50 mph in 5 seconds instead of 20, I should still have x-y joules left. Whats the max efficient rate of discharge of a battery? I guess the lithium ones are pretty good, but eventually they burst into flames, so there has to be some heat wasted in there at some rate of discharge. I could figure this out myself if they put an energy/km gauge in the car, but they only do l/100km. I only get to know I used 0 l of gas on this trip, not that I wasted all my charge. Do the volts/bolts/molts of the world have that? Maybe the fords have that gauge too? someone else with floor it everywhere and then do the same trip driving like a grandma and let me know how much it changes.
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Oct 10, 2017 19:48
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Adiabatic posted:Really even that's dependent upon the size of the next hill and how much speed you need to get over it with zero throttle input. Imagine that the hill is long and steep enough that you can either • Cruise at terminal velocity the whole way down or • Approach terminal velocity, scrub tens of km∕hr (squared times half mass) into the battery, and still have enough hill below you to approach terminal velocity once again. Approaching terminal velocity is itself wasteful and the energy‐optimal way to do it is probably to descend at a quite low speed, putting moderate pressure a few times a minute to main speed. At some point near the bottom of the hill, stop braking and freewheel up to some hard‐to‐calculate speed onto flat ground or up the next hill. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 20:15
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That's super true, with wind resistance being a second order function and all. Good points.
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Oct 10, 2017 20:18
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Sagebrush posted:Power is energy expended over time. If the time is shorter, the power is greater. Accelerating to 60 mph in 3 seconds takes more power than accelerating to 60 in 30 seconds, even though you end up at the same speed. Even though you're using that lower amount of power for ten times as long, in this scenario? Like, I know the kW peak would be higher over 3s vs 30s, but wouldn't the kWh expended be similar?
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Oct 10, 2017 20:25
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