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Frobbe posted:In your haste to write this, Did you ever stop to consider that you wouldn't be able to see any difference once there's helmets involved? That's such a weak loving excuse. They openly bragged on social media about having more female representation. Do you really expect your sad sack of poo poo of an excuse to fly?
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Oct 9, 2017 13:27
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Phyresis posted:IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE, even the black space marines are white Did you ever hear the one about the black and white space marine on a black and white bike?
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Oct 9, 2017 13:29
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chutche2 posted:Yes. That is one of the two I saw in the codex, as I stated. Do they want a medal for two whole drawings? Not even part of any if the full page art scenes that I saw, just two small female drawings as part of some of the alternate regiments. That's two more than the last codex. Progress!  On a serious note, at least there are signs of them trying now. If the progress they made on social media in the last year is any indication then I think there is a bright future for hopefully cool women miniatures in games workshop's future.
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Oct 9, 2017 13:30
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chutche2 posted:That's such a weak loving excuse. serious post: there's no need to be so hostile, even though this is a touchy subject.   these don't seem ambiguous to me, no right-thinking person can claim these are women
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Oct 9, 2017 13:34
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There's also been more female characters lately. With the celestine remake, greyfax and yvraine. The only armies that have gotten new models since then are space marines and death guard, 2 armies unambiguously male and while i agree the space marines being all male was some bullshit to protect the boys club in the early 90s, I doubt itll change. Wed have to see a more gender neutral army like IG or Eldar get new units I think.
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Oct 9, 2017 13:34
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More representation means more people in the hobby, a greater variety of miniatures being produced and it makes grogs super loving mad to boot. It's a win/win.
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Oct 9, 2017 13:35
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Phyresis posted:serious post: there's no need to be so hostile, even though this is a touchy subject. The models (heads) are a stickling point. The fluff has had female guardsmen since forever and some model ranges have vastly better representation than others. EDIT: These are all female 
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Oct 9, 2017 13:39
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SteelMentor posted:it makes grogs super loving mad This guy knows whats up.
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Oct 9, 2017 13:39
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No lie, my Deathwatch now double as a grog detector. While I've been pleasantly surprised that they've mostly got a "Oh neat" at worst, I've still tallied a lot of salty neckbeard tears just from them hitting the table.
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Oct 9, 2017 13:40
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SteelMentor posted:More representation means more people in the hobby, a greater variety of miniatures being produced and it makes grogs super loving mad to boot. It's a win/win. These are all the reasons I await Leanna Russ. Especially the making grogs super loving pissed part but all the rest of it too.
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Oct 9, 2017 13:43
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SteelMentor posted:No lie, my Deathwatch now double as a grog detector. While I've been pleasantly surprised that they've mostly got a "Oh neat" at worst, I've still tallied a lot of salty neckbeard tears just from them hitting the table. Were pics of them posted recently? if not, share!
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Oct 9, 2017 13:43
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Frobbe posted:The models (heads) are a stickling point. The fluff has had female guardsmen since forever and some model ranges have vastly better representation than others. This is a very ironic post. IIRC the Death Korps of Krieg cannot spare women for their ranks because of their breeding problem. You're probably a troll
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Oct 9, 2017 13:45
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Frobbe posted:Were pics of them posted recently? if not, share! I'll take some pics later on, hopefully if I can find decent lighting somewhere.
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Oct 9, 2017 13:46
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SteelMentor posted:No lie, my Deathwatch now double as a grog detector. While I've been pleasantly surprised that they've mostly got a "Oh neat" at worst, I've still tallied a lot of salty neckbeard tears just from them hitting the table. My wifes female Sigmarines that I'm working on will never get to experience the lovely aroma of a game store, but I like to think they'd elicit a small amount of rage from the inhabitants (one of them has a head swap and the rest are all completely standard and boring helmeted Stormcast)
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Oct 9, 2017 13:47
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chutche2 posted:Too many goony fucks make arguments about the ~history~ of fictional settings like this, and that's primarily what I was commenting on since the discussion was about female representation. Sorry if we're not on the same page. I get the argument, personally I just don't agree with it. If GW decided to make female Space Marines I would shrug and probably not change a thing (I prefer everyone in helmets anyway), but my preference would be for the lore and range to stay as they are. Personally I would like to see more diverse Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle/Silence that aren't so hypersexualized with battle heels and bullet catching boob contoured armor. I would love to see GW embrace Guardsman from a wide variety of races as well, since the Guard is supposed to include people from every corner of humanity. It would also make for some awesome expansion packs.
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Oct 9, 2017 13:50
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Phyresis posted:This is a very ironic post. IIRC the Death Korps of Krieg cannot spare women for their ranks because of their breeding problem. You're probably a troll those are armageddon steel legion  Here is a better solution than femmarines: more female characters in imperial guard and gayer space marines. I mean, Horus Heresy already has more angst and repressed feelings than a CW drama fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 13:58
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Corrode posted:In the grim darkness of the far future, only palefaces will survive due to low levels of vitamin D. Reaper makes some good skin triads that go beyond "pasty white dude", I love the ridiculous Hispanic names the Crimson Fists have, it's one of the main draws for me. I even get to name my Captain after myself and actually fit in.
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Oct 9, 2017 13:59
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Phyresis posted:This is a very ironic post. IIRC the Death Korps of Krieg cannot spare women for their ranks because of their breeding problem. You're probably a troll Steel Legion?
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Oct 9, 2017 13:59
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fatherboxx posted:those are armageddon steel legion Lord_Hambrose posted:Steel Legion? My bad, the Goffs should have been an obvious tell if nothing else. Phone posting owns Also they're not women anyway
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Oct 9, 2017 14:01
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bonds0097 posted:Reaper makes some good skin triads that go beyond "pasty white dude", I love the ridiculous Hispanic names the Crimson Fists have, it's one of the main draws for me. I even get to name my Captain after myself and actually fit in. This is something I really wish GW would embrace and emphasize. It would be a relatively small up-front cost and would go a long way to diversifying the product base.
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Oct 9, 2017 14:03
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Phyresis posted:My bad, the Goffs should have been an obvious tell if nothing else. Phone posting owns How can you tell? That's the entire idea of women in full armour or fatigues. when done properly, you really, really can't tell. This is also why boobplate is mocked.
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Oct 9, 2017 14:04
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Frobbe posted:How can you tell? That's the entire idea of women in full armour or fatigues. when done properly, you really, really can't tell. This is also why boobplate is mocked. Primarily because of statistics. 99% of Warhammer 40,000 pictures depict male soldiers. Secondarily because of their physiques. Those are male bodies, and definitely male hands. This is only a secondary consideration because that picture is rather ugly. The officer is certainly not a woman because none of them are, apparently. There might be a couple mentioned in the books, particularly in the Navy and high command but no one notable, iirc. you are proffering a very weak defense for a widely-recognized problem. but if you ask me, the lack of female models is probably one of the smallest factors making this hobby unappealing to women. Phyresis fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 14:10
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"Boob plate and combat heels are sexist!" "I want female models that are distinguishable from 3 feet away! I dont just want a female head on a male body!" "It is so sexist to think that women warriors wouldn't wear helmets!" They basically can't win. Buy what you want to see on the table and people will make it. There are niche providers of these things. Support the hell out of them! I think its a very difficult line to walk. They need to accentuate the female form to make them feminine, but not so feminine that it becomes overtly sexualized.
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Oct 9, 2017 14:16
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Phyresis posted:This is a very ironic post. IIRC the Death Korps of Krieg cannot spare women for their ranks because of their breeding problem. You're probably a troll Those are Armageddon Steel Legion... E: Too slow Phyresis posted:The officer is certainly not a woman because none of them are, apparently. There might be a couple mentioned in the books, particularly in the Navy and high command but no one notable, iirc. Granted, she's in the Navy, but Admiral Athene DuCade who is captain of the Red Tear, flagship of the Blood Angels' fleet, features pretty prominently in Fear to Tread, and is a noted badass. She suffers no fools, not even Space Marines. Second Lieutenant Miranda 'Mira' Nero, from the Space Marine game, is another. She's THE main Astra Militarum character in the game, and is very prominently featured. There here might not be an appropriate amount of female characters, but there are some there, and most are pretty cool. Broken Record Talk fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 14:16
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dexefiend posted:"Boob plate and combat heels are sexist!" nice straw women dexefiend posted:Buy what you want to see on the table and people will make it. There are niche providers of these things. Support the hell out of them! this is patently false and not how this industry operates dexefiend posted:I think its a very difficult line to walk. They need to accentuate the female form to make them feminine, but not so feminine that it becomes overtly sexualized. they dont even try
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Oct 9, 2017 14:24
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dexefiend posted:"Boob plate and combat heels are sexist!" - YAH quote:They basically can't win. Buy what you want to see on the table and people will make it. There are niche providers of these things. Support the hell out of them! I think most people arguing for more diversities are saying that the bodies should be the same due to these ladies and gents would be buff as gently caress and would likely wear the same armour as each other. So need need for the narrowed waists and stuck out chests. As for helmets, all GW need to do is to provide a mix of heads, closed helmet/gas masks = could be male/female/other so no change there, open faced ones would need to be tweaked for variety, and helmet-less is just heads anyway so stick a mix on the sprue. I do think GW are working on this though, and like someone posted earlier their plans several years ahead of release. Fingers crossed (in completely generic gloves of course)
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Oct 9, 2017 14:25
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My experience is that the primary reason women don't want to get into 40k or other nerd hobbies is the community and the models don't get a chance to factor in at all. If we want a more inclusive hobby the first thing we need to do is make sure our FLGS is a place where women feel comfortable spending time. On the model front I'd personally be ok with head swaps, but this is a topic where it would be important to have woman voices. I'm not sure what the demographics at GWs design studio look like but if we want more representative models making sure the staff aren't just a bunch of pasty white dudes would go a long way.
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Oct 9, 2017 14:34
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Eldar are touted as woman-friendly but here's what we're looking at: the one female Craftworld Eldar character with a model and rules is Jain Zar, whose cohort is literally called "Howling Banshees." The Dark Eldar have Lelith Hesperax, who is a Succubus, which also has a generic representation. Her cohort is literally called witches, spelled Wyches for extra edge. The Drukhari also have an all-male unit known as "Incubi," which is also creepy and weird, along with the BDSM doms and gimps. But Dark Eldar are supposed to be creepy and weird, right? So it's ok, right? The Ynnari have a literal soul-sucking sorceress named Yvraine Phyresis fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 14:35
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Phyresis posted:Eldar are touted as woman-friendly but here's what we're looking at: Dark Eldar were brought up a few pages ago along with Slaanesh which started the topic in the first place  Also aren't the Wyches a mix male and female models? (They look crap either way)
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Oct 9, 2017 14:39
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Broken Record Talk posted:Those are Armageddon Steel Legion... And Lt. Mira is like the only competent imperial character in the game. The space marines sure as hell aren't. Captain "Whoops I accidentally started a chaos invasion.  " Titus.
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Oct 9, 2017 14:39
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Groetgaffel posted:There's also the captain of Angron's flagship, Lotara who is an absolute loving badass. She shoots a World Eaters captain in the face for dereliction of duty with her laspistol. That's badass. Which book is that from?
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Oct 9, 2017 14:40
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richyp posted:Dark Eldar were brought up a few pages ago along with Slaanesh which started the topic in the first place Yeah, iirc the kit comes with 6 female and 4 male torso fronts. The heads are, of course, ambiguous. I believe every "current" Banshee model is female. I don't think the other Aspect Warriors have any females at all but I could be wrong, as I so often am. 1 in 4 Guardian torsos are female. All of the vehicle pilots are male, but some of those are ancient. I disagree that GW is trying very hard. Token efforts at best. Cargo cult behavior e: i'm comfortable with calling Eldars "female" as they are not humans but Xenos scum
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Oct 9, 2017 14:43
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You've never read a gaunts ghosts book? Or most of the drat guard oriented books
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Oct 9, 2017 14:48
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Broken Record Talk posted:That's badass. Which book is that from? I believe it's Betrayer. The World Eaters Horus Heresy book at any rate. It's good. Written by ADB, so that's no surprise. E: Frobbe posted:You've never read a gaunts ghosts book? Or most of the drat guard oriented books Like you have people who read Ciaphas Cain or Gaunt's Ghosts, think that hell yeah, Tona Criid, or Colonel Kasteen or whoever, is badass, so they want to play guard, and there's not even a single female face in the entire model range, your only options being either headswaps via kitbashing or 3rd party, or the getting either steel legion or death korps. For the models you can easily claim that as many as you want are women, between greatcoats and full face covering you can't tell. Neither of those are particularly good options. Groetgaffel fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 14:49
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Frobbe posted:You've never read a gaunts ghosts book? Or most of the drat guard oriented books I still refuse to believe that you are arguing in good faith. I don't know much about Dan Abnett but I have read every Gaunt's Ghosts book and he seems to make an effort in this matter and even then his depictions are somewhat creepy. IIRC he makes sure to mention the civilians that support the Tanith First-and-Only, particularly in "stress relief" matters. On top of that, he takes enough creative liberties that I don't consider most of his writing to be strictly canon. Loosely the characters exist but some of the stuff he writes does not fit correctly into the overall lore of this universe.
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Oct 9, 2017 14:52
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Edit: nm, i dont need to participate in this argument. There are more people saying what I want to say better than I can. Vvvvv you quoted me too soon! I realized the kind of garbage the market has been deciding on about 15 seconds after I posted. 
dexefiend fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 14:53
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dexefiend posted:let the market decide. 
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Oct 9, 2017 14:56
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Warmachine have been 'pretty' good at this, although they have admitted in the past they found it hard to make it obvious that a model was a woman without resorting to them having readable boobs or combat heels, but I think their sculpting process has come on since then both in terms of ability and perception. They do tend to at least favour the combat heels of the two, but you'll also have seen from Saalkin's av that they have a warcaster with huge obvious tits who has a weapon called 'Great rack', they're by no means paragons. They do have an army of essentially all women, but it's not like their especially themed around it, nor is it particularly lampshaded. You could possibly collect the army without noticing, because it's pretty common for armies to be lead by and contain multiple / a majority of female warriors. I think its easier for them though, because the Warjacks and Warbeasts are by and large gender neutral, and then most of the humanoid figures are characters, so they get to give them a bit more personality, which I imagine helps get around the mental roadblock issue of designing troops where you get "they ARE women they just look excactly like the men".
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Oct 9, 2017 14:58
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imo it's hard for PP to make good-looking models in general. one of their sculptors in particular is not great. nominally i play cryx and the satyxis are pretty uh... yeah. they're getting a bunch of new models for their theme list in a couple of months, including Skarre 3 with new-and-improved Great Rack. but i happen to like my little murderwomen anything's better than Infinity e: Infinitits Phyresis fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Oct 9, 2017 |
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Oct 9, 2017 15:02
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Phyresis posted:serious post: there's no need to be so hostile, even though this is a touchy subject. Sorry those women don't match your misogynistic standards of beauty.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:05
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