|
Xand_Man posted:That's my point actually. The political rhetoric (some of which is in this very thread) that conflates small-scale property holders with large scale developers/property managers is pointlessly divisive. A single mother working in a warehouse doesn't become a class traitor because she makes some income off her old condo.
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 17:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 05:59 |
|
|
twodot posted:I mean the single mother is apparently profiting other her old condo, so I presume she's offering rents near the market rate. If she's offering a similar product for a similar price, how is she any different from large scale developers? Like if there's some class of property owner out there that doesn't care about profits and is charging like half the market rate, because all they want out of their spare property is beer money, then I'm cool with them, but I'm guessing there's not a lot of them. Really? Can't see how she's different? There is a material difference between those two situations (the single mother and the corporation.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 17:55
|
|
|
[quote="“therobit”" post="“477167964”"] Mid to high five figures loss on a single property in a single year. [/quote] Man I wish I was so poor that I could "lose" five figures and still have a property that I can sell for six figures (or if multi-tenant easily 7 figures) ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Oct 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 18:30
|
|
|
[quote="“Xand_Man”" post="“477172830”"] That’s my point actually. The political rhetoric (some of which is in this very thread) that conflates small-scale property holders with large scale developers/property managers is pointlessly divisive. A single mother working in a warehouse doesn’t become a class traitor because she makes some income off her old condo. [/quote] Struggling single mothers don't have "an old condo".
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 18:33
|
|
|
ElCondemn posted:Struggling single mothers don't have "an old condo". A divorce could put one in that situation pretty easily. Edit it's a situation people falling could end up in. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Oct 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 18:34
|
|
|
Sounds like an opportunity to fail upwards.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 18:47
|
|
|
George posted:Sounds like an opportunity to fail upwards. Tell that to an ex house wife with a kid. Can't get poo poo for a job without a work history.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 18:58
|
|
|
Couldn't the strawman single mother just sell the property, in order to have the cash to allow her to ease back into the workforce?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 19:00
|
|
|
If you are struggling enough that you have to leave your house/condo because you can no longer afford the mortgage, my bet is that you are either going to sell and downsize, or more likely, sell and leave town to somewhere with a housing economy that isn't (as) hosed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 19:05
|
|
|
Peachfart posted:Couldn't the strawman single mother just sell the property, in order to have the cash to allow her to ease back into the workforce? Why you almost sound Republican, gotta lose everything before one is deserving of a safety net? Mortgages exist, might not be any equity.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 19:07
|
|
|
BrandorKP posted:Why you almost sound Republican, gotta lose everything before one is deserving of a safety net?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 20:24
|
|
|
Wow, um, that's a lot of things that nobody in this thread said.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 20:31
|
|
|
Thanatosian posted:Truly, the struggling freshly-divorced non-working housewife whose ex-husband makes enough to support both of them but doesn't have to pay alimony or child support who is somehow left with a piece of freshly-purchased property in Seattle with zero equity as the only thing she got out of the divorce is the invisible minority, here. Quickly, we must remake all of our housing policy to benefit this woman!
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 20:31
|
|
|
Xand_Man posted:Wow, um, that's a lot of things that nobody in this thread said. BrandorKP posted:Why you almost sound Republican, gotta lose everything before one is deserving of a safety net? BrandorKP posted:Tell that to an ex house wife with a kid. Can't get poo poo for a job without a work history. BrandorKP posted:A divorce could put one in that situation pretty easily. That is, in fact, exactly the person he's talking about.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 20:32
|
|
|
Actually he's an abusive piece of poo poo that would absolutely try and take her to the cleaners/ take custody of their kids if she tried to sell their jointly owned property. I'm real uncomfortable discussing the potentially identifying personal history of a friend with strangers over the internet. My main point is these people exist, and I think that's been made. If you want to discuss it further let's go to PMs.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
Poor woman being throw to the wolves of capitalism. We should let the wolves off the chain by lowering property taxes and removing tenant protections, that should help her. It is obviously a better solution than providing public services to help someone exactly in her position.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
Xand_Man posted:fixed income grandma who has a rental property. Xand_Man posted:Actually he's an abusive piece of poo poo that would absolutely try and take her to the cleaners/ take custody of their kids if she tried to sell their jointly owned property.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
It's super telling that people seemingly can't even conceive of poverty without throwing people well off enough to not only own property but owning enough that they can rent their extra houses out to people into the mix.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
Xand_Man posted:Actually he's an abusive piece of poo poo that would absolutely try and take her to the cleaners/ take custody of their kids if she tried to sell their jointly owned property.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 21:05
|
|
|
Some of you like to impose your class categories in an idealistic way when you think. That's almost always a mistake.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 22:17
|
|
|
lol @ considering a person that can rent out property being poor. Poor is having the electricity cut off for a week in winter because you didn't get enough hours at work. Poor is getting Christmas presents that were purchased by another family because your parent can't afford anything. Poor is not knowing what to do when they raise rent by 50 dollars. You have no concept of what the poor have to deal with.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 22:42
|
|
|
Peachfart posted:lol @ considering a person that can rent out property being poor. Yeah, but if the poor had to deal with bad tenants then they'd really know what struggle is, right guys?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2017 23:47
|
|
|
Peachfart posted:You have no concept of what the poor have to deal with. My childhood rooms were: the second floor of a closet in a one bedroom trailer (a literal statement there) and an exterior porch that occasionally flooded in South Florida. But lecture me on what it's like to have been poor. People can rise and fall in life and simplistic idealistic categories don't always capture reality.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 00:24
|
|
|
BrandorKP posted:My childhood rooms were: the second floor of a closet in a one bedroom trailer (a literal statement there) and an exterior porch that occasionally flooded in South Florida.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 00:30
|
|
|
BrandorKP posted:Why you almost sound Republican, gotta lose everything before one is deserving of a safety net? Structuring welfare as an inescapable gravity well is also Democrat policy. You get to choose between the party of rich white men and the party of rich white women, and both always seem to know what's best for poor people.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 00:35
|
|
|
anthonypants posted:What was the rent on the bottom floor of that closet? That was my younger sisters room. The bottom foot-ish was storage then a platform with a foam pad for her, then a platform / foam pad for me. We each had small 10" wide shelves on one end. Trailer rent was what gets called "work-camp"
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 01:18
|
|
|
BrandorKP posted:Really?
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 06:09
|
|
|
twodot posted:There is literally no difference between a person who owns real estate and rents it out at market prices for a profit and a group of people who have formed a corporation who own real estate and rent it out at market prices for a profit. Do you have a real argument or are you just going to ask incredulous questions? I find it absurd you see no difference between "a person who owns real estate and rents it out" and "a group of people who have formed a corporation who own real estate and rent it out". There is a world of difference between a individual (or even a small partnership) as a landlord and a large corporation that does property management . There is a world of difference between living in a trailer park owned by an individual and one owned by a large national corporation say Encore. That you are ignorant of that difference doesn't make it not exist. But you tend to be ignorant of a lot of things.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 06:32
|
|
|
BrandorKP posted:I find it absurd you see no difference between "a person who owns real estate and rents it out" and "a group of people who have formed a corporation who own real estate and rent it out". There is a world of difference between a individual (or even a small partnership) as a landlord and a large corporation that does property management . There is a world of difference between living in a trailer park owned by an individual and one owned by a large national corporation say Encore. edit: Like "Hey guys, A and B are so clearly different there exists no reason to bother to demonstrate they are different, even though it would be trivial for me to do so" seems obviously absurd. edit2: I'm realizing a made an error, are you arguing that independent owners are more likely to lack lawyers and insurance, and as a result are much more likely to violate local laws and be generally more dangerous? twodot fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Oct 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 06:34
|
|
|
gently caress this post I want a do over.
FantasticExtrusion fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Oct 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 15:55
|
|
|
ElCondemn posted:The way we talk about them? We were responding to some dickbag who thought he deserves to live here more than someone else because he "worked hard" to get here. This has nothing to do with how immigrants and refugees are seen and everything to do with how entitled assholes think they deserve more than someone else because of their perceived "hard work". Dickbag with a learning disability here. Glad to see we're still harping on the literal retard who despite having an actual disability saved up thousands of dollars over thousands of hours while in tens of thousands of dollars of debt; while working two jobs below $9/hr and without medical care or medication dilligently saving to pay for a move. You know, because conservatives suck and their states are shitholes. That I expect respect makes me awful. Respect is free. $0. You have no problem paying someone's way, but someone pays their own way and they're cancer. Do you see how that is fundamentally douchebaggish. I'll leave and someone will paraphrase in a way that suits their narrative. Edit: man I should have just hosed off. You gotta understand, I am working hard, for a long time I wasn't because I was neglected to poo poo, part of why HERE matters to me is that we chose THIS place specifically so I could meet other people who do what I (do/ want to) do in person; and it was by far the much more difficult if 2 choices and we are making less. to be here. Just imagine I'm 16 even though I'm almost 30 and you're dissing the first car I bought myself, lol. It's like: it's an achievement. I'm proud of it. FantasticExtrusion fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Oct 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 16:30
|
|
|
I just don't know who to root for in the poverty purity olympics here. So many good participants trying their best.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 17:24
|
|
|
twodot posted:So, you're saying you don't actually possess a relevant argument? ? It's obvious you haven't experienced the difference. The larger a business is the more systematic it tends to be. Businesses are systems that spit out money as they cycle. Larger businesses tend to have tighter, more standardized cycles that have been fully developed. They also try to make them more easily repeatable. They tend to gravitate towards going after the highest margin customers. Big property managers follow a script. There is a model, a system that the company operates by. It does things like plan for maintenence, have lawyers etc. Individuals by contrast more often don't have fully developed systems. An individual could have the property and list it on Craigslist and that's the extent of the system. There is far more variability (good and bad) in how the rental is run. Usually there is more humanity in the operation (again this could be good or bad). Smaller partnerships and small companies often fall in bwtween the two extremes. Going: these things are the same because they both charge the market rate makes you look like an idiot. It also implies a lack of having experienced the difference between the two. But that's a reoccurring problem with you.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 17:28
|
|
|
You realize that half the people in this thread are communists that want to abolish private property, right?
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 17:36
|
|
|
Pander posted:I just don't know who to root for in the poverty purity olympics here. So many good participants trying their best. Yeah this is getting really sophistic and petty. It's like we're in D&D or something.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 17:38
|
|
|
"Capitalism is bad because of all the people who are made to suffer." "Capitalism is good because I got mine, gently caress you."
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 17:43
|
|
|
FantasticExtrusion posted:Dickbag with a learning disability here. You really should have just hosed off, saying you deserve more than a refugee/immigrant because you "worked hard" is different than saying "I'm proud of the hard work that I've done". Nobody deserves respect, everyone has struggles and/or perceived struggles, I don't deserve special treatment because I was poor and ended up here, certainly not any more than anyone else that got here through whatever path they took. BrandorKP posted:It's obvious you haven't experienced the difference. The larger a business is the more systematic it tends to be. Businesses are systems that spit out money as they cycle. Larger businesses tend to have tighter, more standardized cycles that have been fully developed. They also try to make them more easily repeatable. They tend to gravitate towards going after the highest margin customers. Big property managers follow a script. There is a model, a system that the company operates by. It does things like plan for maintenence, have lawyers etc. I think you're missing the point, regardless of how monied the individual or corporation is if they choose to invest money into becoming a landlord they have to adhere to the same laws. There is no difference between a large corporation and a individual in that regard, nobody should have to deal with a slumlord regardless of their slumlords pedigree. A "single mother" slumlord who's bad at business is not better for society than a company who purposefully fucks over renters and they deserve no special treatment. ElCondemn fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Oct 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 17:47
|
|
|
Can anyone who's on board with removing privately owned property/the rentier class point me in a good direction of some reading on how it could work, potentially? I'm all for doing away with scumbags who never have to work because they lucked into some capital and own property, but if we somehow did go "full communism now", how do we decide who gets to live where? There will still be more desirable places than others even if socialism can make everywhere equal in terms of access to education and other public services. Not an argumentative post, I'd just really like some reading recs on this, thanks. I've burned through a few books from D and D recommendations and really enjoyed them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 17:58
|
|
|
It's not quite full communism now, but I've heard good things about the widespread public housing in Vienna (social housing is used by 60% of the population). These articles look at Vienna's housing from a progressive, urbanist perspective: http://crosscut.com/2017/06/homelessness-housing-crisis-seattle-vienna-solution/ https://www.theurbanist.org/2017/08/14/housing-policy-lessons-vienna-part/
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 18:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 05:59 |
|
|
DevNull posted:You realize that half the people in this thread are communists that want to abolish private property, right? I also think worrying about how things ought to be in the world to come is also naively idealistic. Letting what ought to be prevent one from seeing something, that is almost always a mistake. It turns people who see the thing being ignored off of whatever you're saying.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2017 18:15
|
|