Rise to me: The Bread Thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Goons with Spoons > Rise to me: The Bread Thread

Submarine Sandpaper: May 27, 2007

I tried it, I prefer the boil. 5% is the most you can use. I don't know if I didn't let it sit or what but not nearly the same browning as a boil.

# ? Sep 29, 2017 03:41

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# ? May 9, 2024 18:12

SymmetryrtemmyS: Jul 13, 2013; I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

Boiling is easier and they come out the same. Make sure to spray liberally. YMMV.

# ? Sep 29, 2017 07:55

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

My pre ferment dried out some I think? It like developed a crust on top... How bad is that?

# ? Oct 1, 2017 17:27

Cymbal Monkey: Apr 16, 2009; Lift Your Little Paws Like Antennas to Heaven!

big black turnout posted:

My pre ferment dried out some I think? It like developed a crust on top... How bad is that?

It can be really hard to reincorporate a crust, you'd be surprised how waterproof they can become. I would try to remove as much as possible and continue on.

# ? Oct 1, 2017 17:30

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

Cymbal Monkey posted:

It can be really hard to reincorporate a crust, you'd be surprised how waterproof they can become. I would try to remove as much as possible and continue on.

Ok, that was my thought but it's impossible to find anything about it online because every page that talks about bread says the word "crust" haha

Thanks!

# ? Oct 1, 2017 17:32

big black turnout: Jan 13, 2009; Fallen Rib

I made these rather anemic looking "ciabatta" loaves today

from this recipe: https://leitesculinaria.com/79221/recipes-ciabatta.html

I'm not sure what I did wrong, but the dough didn't seem nearly as wet as it sounds like it was supposed to be maybe? And I didn't get much oven spring at all, which led to the underwhelming crumb I think? It tastes decent, but I was hoping for a little more tang and an airier crumb. Any ideas?

Edit: for what it's worth I've baked bread quite a few times but I tend to just follow the directions and things come out okay, but I can't figure out how to get that nice oven spring

big black turnout fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Oct 2, 2017

# ? Oct 2, 2017 01:01

SymmetryrtemmyS: Jul 13, 2013; I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

big black turnout posted:

I made these rather anemic looking "ciabatta" loaves today

from this recipe: https://leitesculinaria.com/79221/recipes-ciabatta.html

I'm not sure what I did wrong, but the dough didn't seem nearly as wet as it sounds like it was supposed to be maybe? And I didn't get much oven spring at all, which led to the underwhelming crumb I think? It tastes decent, but I was hoping for a little more tang and an airier crumb. Any ideas?

Edit: for what it's worth I've baked bread quite a few times but I tend to just follow the directions and things come out okay, but I can't figure out how to get that nice oven spring

I'm not sure why they would add milk to a ciabatta recipe. They don't specify to scald the milk either, which is an essential step - you want to bring it to lightly simmering then kill the heat, let it cool, and then use. Or just use milk powder. Rather, don't do any of that because ciabatta is a lean dough, but in recipes that should use milk, those are necessary steps.

Hydration is fine, though. Are you weighing your ingredients?

Try this instead, I've personally had success with it:

Rose Levy Beranbaum posted:

Time Schedule
Dough Starter (Biga): minimum 6 hours, maximum 3 days
Minimum rising time: about 2.75 hours
Oven Temperature: 475�, then 450�
Baking Time: 30 minutes

Makes an 11-by-5-by-2 to 2.5 inch high loaf, about 10.5 ounces/300 grams

Equipment:
A heavy duty stand mixer with paddle attachment
A half sheet pan lined with a nonstick liner such as silpain(not silpat) or parchment, or sprinkled with flour or cornmeal
A baking stone or baking sheet

Dough Starter (Biga)
Makes: scant 1/2 cup/4.7oz/134 grams

unbleached all-purpose flour (use only Gold Medal, King Arthur, or Pillsbury) 1/2 c plus 1/2 tbsp 2.6 oz 75 g
instant yeast (see Ingredients for brands) 1/16 tsp -- 0.2 g
Optional: malt powder 1/2 tsp -- 1.6 g
water, at room temperature (70� to 90�F) 1/4 liquid c 2 oz 59 g

1)Six Hours or up to 3 days ahead, make the dough starter (biga). In a small bowl, combine all the ingredients for the biga an stir the mixture with a wooden spoon for 3 to 5 minutes or until it is very smooth and comes away from the sides of the bowl. It will be slightly sticky to the touch. Cover the bowl tightly with oiled plastic wrap (or place the biga in a 2 cup food storage container with a lid) and set it aside until tripled and filled with bubbles. At room temperature, this will take about 6 hours. Stir it down and use it or refrigerate it for up to 3 days before baking. (Remove it to room temperature for 1 hour before mixing the dough.)

unbleached all-purpose flour (use only Gold Medal, King Arthur, or Pillsbury) scant 1 c
(plus flour for shaping) 4.75 oz 136 g
instant yeast 1/4 tsp -- 0.8 g
salt 1/2 tsp -- 3.3 g
water 1/2 liquid c about 4 oz 118 g
biga (from above) ��scant 1/2 c ��4.7 oz ��134 g

2)Mix the dough. In the mixer bowl, whisk together the flour and yeast. Then whisk in the salt (this keeps the yeast from coming in direct contact with the salt, which would kill it). Add the water and biga. Using the paddle attachment, mix on low speed (#2 if using a KitchenAid) for a few seconds, just until all the flour is moistened. Raise the speed to medium-high (#6 KitchenAid) for another 2 minutes. If it still doesn�t pull away from the bowl, beat in a little flour 1 teaspoon at a time on low speed (#2 KitchenAid). The dough should cling to your fingers if touched.

3)Let the dough rise. Using an oiled spatula or dough scraper, scrape the dough into a 2-quart food storage container, lightly greased with cooking spray or oil (I detach the paddle from the machine and use it to lift out the dough, as it usually clings to the paddle in a long elastic strand). (The dough will weigh about 13.6 ounces/386 grams.) Push down the dough and lightly spray or oil the top. Cover the container with a lid or plastic wrap. WIth a piece of tape, mark the side of the container at approximately where triple the height of the dough would be. Allow the dough to rise (ideally at 75�- 80�) until tripled, 1.25 � 2 hours.

4)Shape the dough and let it rise. Sift a generous amount of flour onto a counter in a rectangle at least 10 inches by 8 inches. With an oiled spatula, gently scrape the dough onto the flour, and sift more flour on top. Handle the dough gently at all times to maintain as much air in it as possible. Using the palms of your hands against the sides of the dough, push it together slightly. Using your fingertips, make large deep dimples in the dough about 1 inch apart, elongating it. Push the sides together a second time. (This process wrinkles the bottom of the dough, which will become the top when inverted, and creates the classic lines in the crust.)
Carefully list up the dough and invert it onto the prepared baking sheet. It will be 10-11 inches in length. Push in the sides so that the dough is about 4.5inches wide. It will be between 1/2 inch and 1 inch high. Sift flour over the top and cover the dough with a large container, or cover loosely with plastic wrap. Allow it to rise in a warm spot until 1 to 1.5� high, 1.5-2 hours.

5) Preheat the oven. Preheat the oven to 475� 1 hour before baking. Have an oven shelf at the lowest level and place a baking stone or baking sheet on it, and a cast-iron skillet or sheet pan on the floor of the oven, before preheating.

6) Bake the bread. Remove the container or plastic wrap and quickly but gently set the baking sheet on the hot baking stone or hot baking sheet. Toss 1/2 cup of ice cubes into the pan beneath and immediately shut the door. Bake for 5 minutes. Lower the temperature to 450� and continue baking for 20 minutes or until the bread is deep golden brown (an instant read thermometer inserted in the center of the loaf will read about 214�). Halfway through baking, turn the pan around for even baking. Turn of the oven, prop the door open with a wooden spoon wrapped in foil, and allow the bread to sit for 5 minutes.

7) Cool the bread. Remove the bread from the oven and transfer it to a wire rack to cool completely. Brush off the flour from the surface.

Ratios:
Flour: 100%
Water: 83.9%
Yeast: 0.53%
Salt: 2%

# ? Oct 2, 2017 02:17

theHUNGERian: Feb 23, 2006

I was in Sweden recently, and it made me realize how much I miss the dark breads I used to eat when I was growing up in Germany. The local grocery store here only sell the super-thinly sliced kind, and there are only two options, so I would like to try making my own.

I don't have an oven. Is there a thread-approved bread maker?

Per the OP I need a scale (Are they all the same?), and yeast (where do I buy this?). Anything else? It's fair to assume that I only have measuring cups, a power outlet, running water, flour, salt, and basic utensils.

Finally, can anybody recommend an easy recipe for a sunflower/flax seed bread? It looked something like this, perhaps a bit darker.

Edit: I read that the bread that comes out of a bread machine must be consumed within 2 days. True/False? Even refrigeration won't give me a 5 day shelf life? I need bread for 5 days (sandwiches for lunch), but I don't want to make bread every other day.

theHUNGERian fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Oct 2, 2017

# ? Oct 2, 2017 03:14

Olive!: Mar 16, 2015; It's not a ghost, but probably a 'living corpse'. The 'living dead' with a hell of a lot of bloodlust...

Brought my levain out of the fridge finally and revived it.

Forkish 'overnight country blonde', levain only, no added yeast.

Poorly lit crumb shot:

# ? Oct 3, 2017 21:38

Stringent: Dec 22, 2004; image text goes here

V nice.

# ? Oct 3, 2017 22:08

theHUNGERian: Feb 23, 2006

theHUNGERian posted:

I was in Sweden recently, and it made me realize how much I miss the dark breads I used to eat when I was growing up in Germany. The local grocery store here only sell the super-thinly sliced kind, and there are only two options, so I would like to try making my own.

I don't have an oven. Is there a thread-approved bread maker?

Per the OP I need a scale (Are they all the same?), and yeast (where do I buy this?). Anything else? It's fair to assume that I only have measuring cups, a power outlet, running water, flour, salt, and basic utensils.

Finally, can anybody recommend an easy recipe for a sunflower/flax seed bread? It looked something like this, perhaps a bit darker.

Edit: I read that the bread that comes out of a bread machine must be consumed within 2 days. True/False? Even refrigeration won't give me a 5 day shelf life? I need bread for 5 days (sandwiches for lunch), but I don't want to make bread every other day.

C'mon thread. Enlighten me.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 01:07

SymmetryrtemmyS: Jul 13, 2013; I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

Flour, water, salt, and yeast are the only tools you really need to make bread. You can buy yeast at any grocery store - but look for the jars, you save a ton of money.

Get a scale. I recommend the MyWeigh KD-8000, as it's more or less the perfect kitchen scale.

Bread machines aren't really worth using until you get up into the Zojirushi price range. Do you have a countertop oven or anything?

The bread you linked looks pretty unusual, more like a vollkornbrot than anything else. Tons of seeds, which will make it slightly harder to work with, and it looks like it has a pretty high hydration. Try something like this and modify to taste. Make it per the recipe at least once so you know what's going on and how it should feel and taste and smell and all that sensory input that words on a page can never truly convey.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 01:45

theHUNGERian: Feb 23, 2006

SymmetryrtemmyS posted:

Flour, water, salt, and yeast are the only tools you really need to make bread. You can buy yeast at any grocery store - but look for the jars, you save a ton of money.

Get a scale. I recommend the MyWeigh KD-8000, as it's more or less the perfect kitchen scale.

Bread machines aren't really worth using until you get up into the Zojirushi price range. Do you have a countertop oven or anything?

The bread you linked looks pretty unusual, more like a vollkornbrot than anything else. Tons of seeds, which will make it slightly harder to work with, and it looks like it has a pretty high hydration. Try something like this and modify to taste. Make it per the recipe at least once so you know what's going on and how it should feel and taste and smell and all that sensory input that words on a page can never truly convey.

Your bread looks pretty unusual. Yeah, it's probably Vollkornbrot.

I have a prehistoric countertop oven, this thing.

Re: price. I eat bread pretty much daily, so I am willing to spend a bit, whether it's a table top oven or a bread machine. But I would very much want that contraption to be able to make a decent Vollkornbrot among many others of course.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 02:46

SymmetryrtemmyS: Jul 13, 2013; I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

You can bake pretty much anything in a Smart Oven, but it doesn't come cheap. It's generally worth it to have an oven around though IMO, like I can't imagine living without one.

Vollkornbrot, especially one as seeded as that one is, isn't the easiest thing to make. Feel free to jump right in or work your way up; even your failures are edible, and at worst they're very cheap mistakes to make. Bread a bread.

That said, you won't be able to bake that particular bread without either a pricey bread machine or an oven (not a toaster oven, but something that'll go to high heat and stay there with a decent amount of space inside). You can make some sort of loaf with even the cheapest bread machines on the market, and you'll still probably like their results better than storebought sandwich bread, but the resulting shape is weird and it's hard to deviate from a few particular types of loaves with those machines. If you're spending money anyway, I'd get an oven since that can do so much more.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 03:16

theHUNGERian: Feb 23, 2006

SymmetryrtemmyS posted:

You can bake pretty much anything in a Smart Oven, but it doesn't come cheap. It's generally worth it to have an oven around though IMO, like I can't imagine living without one.

Vollkornbrot, especially one as seeded as that one is, isn't the easiest thing to make. Feel free to jump right in or work your way up; even your failures are edible, and at worst they're very cheap mistakes to make. Bread a bread.

That said, you won't be able to bake that particular bread without either a pricey bread machine or an oven (not a toaster oven, but something that'll go to high heat and stay there with a decent amount of space inside). You can make some sort of loaf with even the cheapest bread machines on the market, and you'll still probably like their results better than storebought sandwich bread, but the resulting shape is weird and it's hard to deviate from a few particular types of loaves with those machines. If you're spending money anyway, I'd get an oven since that can do so much more.

An oven is out of the question because of space limitations in my apartment, and I'm not moving because of an oven.

So what does a pricey machine look like? $500 or $5000?

# ? Oct 4, 2017 03:42

Submarine Sandpaper: May 27, 2007

I honestly don't think many or any of us here use bread machines. Look for some manuals to see which can handle nutted breads etc. Google will be your friend.

# ? Oct 4, 2017 14:45

theHUNGERian: Feb 23, 2006

I have a question about 'bread of color' and the thread shits itself. Lol.

Just kidding. Google suggests that I find myself a machine with an automated 'fruit and nut hopper'. The Delonghi DBM450 has such a thing and the price is totally fair.

Thanks thread.

New tread title: The dark bread rises.

theHUNGERian fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Oct 4, 2017

# ? Oct 4, 2017 16:05

Tom Smykowski: Jan 27, 2005; What the hell is wrong with you people?

Any pita recipe recommendations? Ive been doing a basic 65% hydration deal and it's easy and good.

# ? Oct 8, 2017 16:18

SymmetryrtemmyS: Jul 13, 2013; I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

Tom Smykowski posted:

Any pita recipe recommendations? Ive been doing a basic 65% hydration deal and it's easy and good.

May I suggest Lebanese mountain bread instead?

# ? Oct 8, 2017 19:52

snyprmag: Oct 9, 2005

I finally got a banneton. Are you suppose to wash the liner in between bakes or just let the flour build up?
Here's the first sourdough loaf I did with it:

# ? Oct 9, 2017 18:58

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

Tom Smykowski posted:

Any pita recipe recommendations? Ive been doing a basic 65% hydration deal and it's easy and good.

I just made the Serious Eats pita recipe with the Serious Eats hummus.

Absolutely Delicious.

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2015/08/perfect-pita-bread-recipe.html

# ? Oct 9, 2017 19:08

SymmetryrtemmyS: Jul 13, 2013; I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

snyprmag posted:

I finally got a banneton. Are you suppose to wash the liner in between bakes or just let the flour build up?
Here's the first sourdough loaf I did with it:

I just kind of tap/shake it out, like lazily cleaning a carpet. A little bit of extra flour only makes it work better, and it's not going to go bad or anything.

# ? Oct 9, 2017 19:17

Thumposaurus: Jul 24, 2007

Just brush/knock the majority of it out.
Unless you're the crazy health inspector in WV that would come to the bakery that I used to work at and argue with us that we had to wash them between uses.

# ? Oct 9, 2017 22:26

Olive!: Mar 16, 2015; It's not a ghost, but probably a 'living corpse'. The 'living dead' with a hell of a lot of bloodlust...

I don't use a liner in my banneton.

# ? Oct 9, 2017 23:07

WhoIsYou: Jan 28, 2009

Heritage Radio Network is doing an eight part mini-series in anticipation of the release of Modernist Bread. Too bad the books are even more expensive than Modernist Cuisine.

# ? Oct 10, 2017 00:25

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; Can't post for 9 minutes!; Soiled Meat

WhoIsYou posted:

Heritage Radio Network is doing an eight part mini-series in anticipation of the release of Modernist Bread. Too bad the books are even more expensive than Modernist Cuisine.

SymmetryrtemmyS, all your time flogging Ankasarum mixers for bread has finally been vindicated!

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Oct 11, 2017

# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:53

SymmetryrtemmyS: Jul 13, 2013; I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

I can't read that, and I haven't finished saving for Modernist Bread yet. I hope it's a small footnote that says "For home bread bakers, don't gently caress around and just buy this thing."

# ? Oct 11, 2017 02:59

Submarine Sandpaper: May 27, 2007

It says that the stand mixer has limitations regarding tough dough i.e. bagel and large batches but is good for attachments and being "good enough". Ankasarum mixers are apparently great for 100% rye and gluten free though.

# ? Oct 11, 2017 15:07

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; Can't post for 9 minutes!; Soiled Meat

Link to big here:

# ? Oct 11, 2017 19:32

Radiation Cow: Oct 23, 2010

I'm thinking of making Hokkaido milk bread this weekend. Does anybody have any particular recipes they'd recommend?

# ? Oct 19, 2017 07:10

Kenshin: Jan 10, 2007

Radiation Cow posted:

I'm thinking of making Hokkaido milk bread this weekend. Does anybody have any particular recipes they'd recommend?

I think this is one of the good recipes that has gone around: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/32997/hokkaido-milk-bread-tangzhong

# ? Oct 19, 2017 08:13

Stringent: Dec 22, 2004; image text goes here

Yeah that one worked for me.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 09:11

iospace: Jan 19, 2038

So what's better, a ceramic baker or a cast iron dutch oven?

# ? Oct 19, 2017 17:10

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

iospace posted:

So what's better, a ceramic baker or a cast iron dutch oven?

You can make beautiful bread in a cast iron dutch oven. Personally, I think cast iron dutch ovens are pretty great in general. Super versatile, fry stuff in it, slow cook, bake, fill it with popcorn kernels and oil and throw it on your fire in your fireplace.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 17:13

iospace: Jan 19, 2038

The thing is, I have a ceramic baker already. Produces loaves like this:

The thing is, I can't pre-heat it like a cast iron dutch oven. My question is "is the pre-heating worth it?" at this point.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 18:13

Submarine Sandpaper: May 27, 2007

iospace posted:

The thing is, I have a ceramic baker already. Produces loaves like this:

The thing is, I can't pre-heat it like a cast iron dutch oven. My question is "is the pre-heating worth it?" at this point.

uh why can't you preheat?

but yes, preheating is important for spring but your bread looks pretty good in the ceramic. The 3.2 qt lodge combo cooker is something you should have regardless imo.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 19:08

iospace: Jan 19, 2038

Submarine Sandpaper posted:

uh why can't you preheat?

but yes, preheating is important for spring but your bread looks pretty good in the ceramic. The 3.2 qt lodge combo cooker is something you should have regardless imo.

Instructions for the cooker (which we've had for a while, so I had to look them up) said not to :shrug:

Rather not risk it.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 19:10

SymmetryrtemmyS: Jul 13, 2013; I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

I put my Romertopf in a cold oven and let it come to temp while I proof my bread. It keeps the steam inside, so I don't have to add water - and adding water to a hot clay cooker is tempting fate anyway, I think.

La Cloche cookers are designed to withstand sudden-ish temperature changes, like putting a cold cooker into a hot oven. Anything unglazed (Romertopf et al) is not, and will probably break in the process.

I finish the bake on a cold sheet pan just so the top and sides can get a little browner. I usually do that when the internal temperature is about 10-15 degrees short of where I want it. It still turns out well if you don't do that, but not quite as well.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 20:15

iospace: Jan 19, 2038

SymmetryrtemmyS posted:

I put my Romertopf in a cold oven and let it come to temp while I proof my bread. It keeps the steam inside, so I don't have to add water - and adding water to a hot clay cooker is tempting fate anyway, I think.

La Cloche cookers are designed to withstand sudden-ish temperature changes, like putting a cold cooker into a hot oven. Anything unglazed (Romertopf et al) is not, and will probably break in the process.

I finish the bake on a cold sheet pan just so the top and sides can get a little browner. I usually do that when the internal temperature is about 10-15 degrees short of where I want it. It still turns out well if you don't do that, but not quite as well.

This is glazed outside, unglazed inside. I'll get a pic sometime when I'm at home.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 20:40

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# ? May 9, 2024 18:12

Submarine Sandpaper: May 27, 2007

Iirc the breadtopia design is full glazed to help against thermal shock. You should probably get some cast iron.

# ? Oct 19, 2017 20:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Goons with Spoons > Rise to me: The Bread Thread

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