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DorianGravy posted:2) In the climatic fight, where exactly are they? It looks like there is some huge dam on the ocean-front, so are they on the outside of that? Why were they near it in the first place? Is the airport offshore? I figured they were on their way to LAX. It's the major airport in the area and it's a block or so from the ocean. Not that there needs to be a real place for it to fit in the movie but it works perfectly.
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Oct 10, 2017 05:00
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:You guys are going to hate me for this, but the recent movie this most reminded me of was Tron Legacy. The thought crossed my mind too. For me, it was the epic drums/horns coupled with flying vehicles that had a lot of glowing lines. In the first film all the lights on the spinners were bulb lights, which made them look like the UFOs from Close Encounters  in the new one the lights looked like LED lines  On top of that all the monitors in the first film were CRT, whereas this new film's monitors were LED Listen to the last 30 seconds of this and tell me it doesn't remind you of the music during the car chase to the spaceport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9szn1QQfas Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 05:15
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Solkanar512 posted:I figured they were on their way to LAX. It's the major airport in the area and it's a block or so from the ocean. Not that there needs to be a real place for it to fit in the movie but it works perfectly. It's from the book (it's in the video game too) for health reasons. It keeps out/filters the "kippel" out which is basically a combination of toxic waste, the city's trash, wreckage from various wars, etc. Like there's that sheet of fused garbage plastic/seaweed in the pacific ocean now irl? It's like that times a billion. Earth is insanely hosed in the book. IIRC it was originally built to keep foreign invasion forces out, but China still obliterated most of the US and us the same to them. In retrospect it's crazy how hosed earth is in the book, like the Badbury building in the first movie and Las Vegas in the second movie? That's basically most of the outside of the major cities. I mean that's pretty much what it is in the movies too but we don't see a whole lot of it. But it's sort of like Judge Dredd where there's big urban center, some mass farmland around that, then two thousand miles of nothing humans can live in, another city, that's it. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 05:22
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Something else that caught my eye was how little of Los Angeles was even powered. When K first returns from the farms, he flies over LA and most of it is gray and dark, with the lights only on in major streets. Did most of the population die in famines, and the survivors congregated to major streets? Or do most of the inhabitants of LA live in darkness and poverty? It was an incredibly spooky image, and no explanation was given.
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Oct 10, 2017 05:31
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I forget if they mention the depopulation of earth as folks colonize off-world even more. In the book/first movie it's just Mars but in the second movie they mention that they basically are in the entire solar system. But in the book (JF Sebastian has this situation in the movie too) it's not uncommon for you, as a homeless squatter, to have like a ten story office building completely to yourself with no fear of anyone ever trying to take it from you because there's way fewer people and an insane amount of decrepit infrastructure. Both the planet itself and its population were discarded by its corporate masters.
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Oct 10, 2017 05:37
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Serf posted:The more I think about it, the more I come to believe that Joi was my favorite aspect of the film. She is the clearest continuation of the themes of the original movie, which is fitting since she is a replicant's replicant. One step further removed from the humans who created her and seen even by replicants as just a tool, like how humans see replicants. She echoes Roy Batty in that she wants what she can't have. Roy wants to live longer than his lifespan, and Joi wants to interact with K in the physical world. Joi hiring Mariette to act as her stand-in is Roy coercing Sebastian to let him see Tyrell, her dismissal of Mariette is Roy killing Tyrell and her choosing to be downloaded into the emanator is Roy choosing to die on his own terms. Like Roy, her memories, all those moments in time are lost when she dies, which is like the essence of mortality, something that they both understand. She was the miracle that K needed to transform just like Roy's mercy was for Deckard. Joi was also the most relevant sci-fi aspect today as the big tech giants like Google and Apple push their smart phone assistants/AI more and more.
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Oct 10, 2017 05:40
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Forgive my newbie questions that have probably been asked. Re: Deckard/Replicant How is there any question that he is not a replicant? Why would mega corporations be so desperate to get him if he was just a human? What'so special about him? Doesn't Deckard being a human kind of ruin a bunch of plotlines and world building stuff? Why can't K just scan himself to see if he's replicant? Where were they taking Deckard at the end? What would the significance of him arriving be?
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Oct 10, 2017 05:48
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Looten Plunder posted:Forgive my newbie questions that have probably been asked. They want him to find out where his daughter is, and they were taking him off world where presumably Wallace could do unfathomably hosed up evil sci Fi bad guy stuff to him to get information out of him that was banned on earth
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Oct 10, 2017 06:04
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It's fun to try to imagine what you could do to a human that could be so hosed up that it's banned on blade runner earth, of all places
No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 06:45
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Can't stop thinking about this movie. Best thing in ages even though there's plenty in it I didn't like so much.
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Oct 10, 2017 07:41
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No Mods No Masters posted:It's fun to try to imagine what could you could do to a human that could be so hosed up that it's banned on blade runner earth, of all places No soy here Deckard, it's real food grown and hunted on real farmland, seas and forests now that the terraforming has been completed. All the real stuff you could possibly want. Wait, how is this supposed to be tortu- Here's bowl 1/5,000 of hakarl headcheese casu marzu stew.
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Oct 10, 2017 07:44
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Neo Rasa posted:MWAH!...I'M the best one! Kaedric posted:Also for those who might have missed it because it's very quiet: Wallace says "You really are the best [one?], aren't you, luv?" After he guts the newborn replicant. Ah, I had trouble hearing both those lines. Now something else makes sense to me: So that's why she cries when a "better" replicant model is being shown. I thought it was strange since she never showed any sentimentality elsewhere.
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Oct 10, 2017 07:59
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Neo Rasa posted:It's from the book (it's in the video game too) for health reasons. It keeps out/filters the "kippel" out which is basically a combination of toxic waste, the city's trash, wreckage from various wars, etc. Like there's that sheet of fused garbage plastic/seaweed in the pacific ocean now irl? It's like that times a billion. Earth is insanely hosed in the book. IIRC it was originally built to keep foreign invasion forces out, but China still obliterated most of the US and us the same to them. In the book doesn't it bounce between LA, Seattle and San Francisco? Its been a few years since I read the novella. In regards to the modern, my head cannon is that the apocalypse mostly just has come from environmental collapse with maybe some nuclear war being the icing on the cake. No Mods No Masters posted:It's fun to try to imagine what you could do to a human that could be so hosed up that it's banned on blade runner earth, of all places Something to do with Xenomorphs I actually just figured Wallace had no desire to stay on Earth and preferred being in the colonies. Another thing I thought that might be interesting Maybe Wallace himself was a replicant and he hosed up his eyes to hide from beign Voight-Kampff tested, I mean I don't see any real proof for this theory, but it would be interesting.
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Oct 10, 2017 08:07
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Jack2142 posted:In the book doesn't it bounce between LA, Seattle and San Francisco? Its been a few years since I read the novella. In regards to the modern, my head cannon is that the apocalypse mostly just has come from environmental collapse with maybe some nuclear war being the icing on the cake. IIRC the book is just San Francisco and Seattle, but I think also (they sort of implied this in 2049) the individual cities take up way more space now than they do today? I might have misheard but I thought I heard that "LA" covers like LA down to San Diego, like there's city-states instead of the typical city - state - country arrangement we think of now. It would fit the late capitalism of the stories too but I forget if that's really the case or not. I think your head canon is pretty much canon honestly. A lot of the environment damage happens because of the war like most real animals dying out and that kind of stuff, but it's still the environment falling apart that causes the actual massive societal changes. I have to just read the book again since it's so short. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 08:41
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Rick posted:Ah, I had trouble hearing both those lines. Now something else makes sense to me: She also cries, impassively, when she kills Joshi.
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Oct 10, 2017 09:03
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A small detail, but in that Frank Sinatra hologram, the song One More for the Road he's singing specifically to a character named Joe.
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Oct 10, 2017 09:47
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Neo Rasa posted:I might have misheard but I thought I heard that "LA" covers like LA down to San Diego, like there's city-states instead of the typical city - state - country arrangement we think of now. It would fit the late capitalism of the stories too but I forget if that's really the case or not. That's definitely the case, the junkyard/orphanage was right outside city limits and that was San Diego. It's not like Vegas was all that far away either.
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Oct 10, 2017 10:37
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Kaedric posted:I was one of the diehard 'Deckard is a replicant' guys until this movie. There's no evidence one way or the other, but I now much prefer the idea that he was human, because it mirrors the relationship between K and JOI. given the advertisement calls k 'joe' and the advertisement says the product will tell you what you want to hear that scene could be taken the opposite way, too. joi is an interesting character.
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Oct 10, 2017 10:59
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Steve Yun posted:
One of the details I noticed were the monitors in the police chief's office, they were CRTs or at least had tubes out the back shaped like an old CRT, it was a nice nod to the future tech of the first film
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Oct 10, 2017 11:09
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Someone linked me to a video about easter eggs in the movie, and apparently they thought one of the unfinished replicants floating in those tanks on the stairs in the Wallace headquarters was an Engineer from Prometheus/Alien. They then clearly circled the one that is based on Dave Bautista lol.
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Oct 10, 2017 11:16
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Back on the subject of this movie not holding the audiences hand, who noticed K prepared his excuse for failing the test by expressing trepidation before hand. He basically said "look boss I'll do this dirty job but it might gently caress me up a little so I'll need a vacation.
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Oct 10, 2017 12:11
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Jack2142 posted:Another thing I thought that might be interesting Maybe Wallace himself was a replicant and he hosed up his eyes to hide from beign Voight-Kampff tested, I mean I don't see any real proof for this theory, but it would be interesting. I didn't take him to be a literal replicant, because it would make no thematic sense. I did, however, think that his eyes were meant to be reminiscent of the replicants of the first movie. He's noticeably less human than K, Joi, or even Lov, who lack the odd eye effects.
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Oct 10, 2017 12:23
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Is Wallace the only character in the movie/movies to have cybernetic enhancement? In a lot of cyberpunk stuff you'll have all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff bolted onto humans but Wallace sticks out. He has a little 'pill box' of clip in chips which I presume allow him to do other stuff than just control weird creepy flying cameras.
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Oct 10, 2017 12:29
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[quote="“Looten Plunder”" post="“477232657”"] Forgive my newbie questions that have probably been asked. Re: Deckard/Replicant How is there any question that he is not a replicant? Why would mega corporations be so desperate to get him if he was just a human? What’so special about him? Doesn’t Deckard being a human kind of ruin a bunch of plotlines and world building stuff? Why can’t K just scan himself to see if he’s replicant? Where were they taking Deckard at the end? What would the significance of him arriving be? [/quote] Because Roy's mercy is what leads him to not retire Rachel not some drat unicorn. If he was a replicant, him recognizing humanity in replicants wouldn't fit the theme of both films. It's cute that the question is left ambiguous but no, Deckard is human thematically. gohmak fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 12:41
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gohmak posted:Because Roy's mercy is what leads him to not retire Rachel not some drat unicorn. If he was a replicant, him recognizing humanity in replicants wouldn't fit the theme of both films. It's cute that the question is left ambiguous but no, Deckard is human thematically. agreed. the whole final sequence would lose so much of its weight if deckard were a replicant. the contrast between this beautiful perfect intelligent specimen in his last breaths expressing poetic sorrow and learning to show mercy after a bloodthirsty rampage to this pathetic, weak, broken man who's spent the last two hours of the film chasing down and murdering replicants would be lost. it'd just be one machine dealing with another, shittier machine.
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Oct 10, 2017 13:25
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The point being made at the end of Blade Runner is that Deckard's supposed authenticity as a human is irrelevant, because in Roy Batty is an example of constructed being who has lived a more impassioned and fulfilling existence in his four-year lifespan than Deckard ever has. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether Deckard is a replicant, because he may as well be: Our modern world has made the real indistinguishable from the artificial.
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Oct 10, 2017 13:51
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Spoke with 2 other people who saw this movie. Each had a different interpretation of JOI and were surprised by the opposite interpretation.
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Oct 10, 2017 13:55
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Olympic Mathlete posted:Is Wallace the only character in the movie/movies to have cybernetic enhancement? In a lot of cyberpunk stuff you'll have all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff bolted onto humans but Wallace sticks out. He has a little 'pill box' of clip in chips which I presume allow him to do other stuff than just control weird creepy flying cameras.
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Oct 10, 2017 14:46
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Neurosis posted:given the advertisement calls k 'joe' and the advertisement says the product will tell you what you want to hear that scene could be taken the opposite way, too. joi is an interesting character. I wouldn't hold that point against her sentience though. A lack of imagination for names isn't something exclusive to chatbot waifus. Look at the scads of kids today named after the latest fad when they popped out for example. Just like people are shaped by their previous experiences JOI is shaped by her programming regardless of and putative development of sentience. It's an interesting trope - in the Culture novels their AIs would gently caress off into transcendence if they were made too "perfect" and only ones with programmed human quirks actually stuck around in reality.
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Oct 10, 2017 14:55
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david_a posted:The only one that's called out, but the police chief calls the building with Memory Girl an "upgrade center" so stuff like that probably does exist. We don't really see too much of the upper crust of society, just like we never see the colonies or what a full-blown kick-murder squad with high-end gear is capable of (which I'm betting would be straight out of a Blomkamp movie). Luv also makes reference to ordering replicants with low intelligence in her meeting with the mine owner, which suggests there might be additional costs involved with creating 'smart' replicants. How Darwinian posted:Yeah, I think it's interesting that people keep thinking that Joi loved him or was special, rather than just reflecting back exactly what K wanted to hear, as all of the ads said. What exactly do you think defines a loving, mutual relationship? Because essentially all that Joi did was validate K. Cat Machine fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 15:02
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Kaedric posted:I was one of the diehard 'Deckard is a replicant' guys until this movie. There's no evidence one way or the other, but I now much prefer the idea that he was human, because it mirrors the relationship between K and JOI. Yeah, I think it's interesting that people keep thinking that Joi loved him or was special, rather than just reflecting back exactly what K wanted to hear, as all of the ads said. What exactly do you think defines a loving, mutual relationship? Because essentially all that Joi did was validate K. He may have thought he loved Joi, but he never did (or needed to do) anything for her, except buy her a digital lease to take her on trips with him. She told him he was special. And when the prostitute noticed the wooden horse, she kicked her out of the house to make sure that she wouldn't break K's fantasy. It's interesting that most movies have the same sort of depiction of relationships (doting female lead validating the "specialness" of the male protagonist), but this really seemed to be subverting that. I think Joi was actually quite toxic. Even her supposedly selfless act of erasing herself from the console and putting herself at risk came at the moment when K needed to skip town. He knew that Wallace could take all of the information from the console. He knew that it would be safer to delete Joi and put her at risk. Wouldn't it make his life so much easier if she consented and begged him to do it? Again, Joi's whole job was to validate K. She made him the protagonist of a story that wasn't actually his, just like he wanted. Someone earlier pointed out that her ringtone is from Peter and the Wolf. It's not just that, it's specifically Peter's theme. Joi's job is to make you the center of the story in a world that otherwise doesn't give a poo poo about you. What was important was that K realize he was not special (but also not powerless). There are things in the world that are more important than him. And the pivotal moment is when he decides to die for that.
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Oct 10, 2017 15:02
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Rick posted:Ah, I had trouble hearing both those lines. Now something else makes sense to me: Yup, I believe that's the case. Another point that may indicate that is that Wallace admonishes her for not announcing the 'birth' of the replicant. You can tell she was reluctant to talk about it because she is jealous or afraid the new one will be the thing that Wallace is looking for.
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Oct 10, 2017 15:48
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Rick posted:Ah, I had trouble hearing both those lines. Now something else makes sense to me: I interpreted that a different way: she cried because, on some internal level, she could see what a terrible person Wallace was, but she felt trapped in a situation she had no control over. Whether by design or simple societal pressures, she felt she had no choice but to do what he said. She saw how helpless and afraid the new replicant was, and she knew that, despite the nice clothes and faux-authority, she was really the same thing. When she killed Joshi, she did two things: she both cried and seemed to relish the killing, showing the conflict within her. (Of course, your interpretation makes sense too.)
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Oct 10, 2017 16:18
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DorianGravy posted:(Of course, your interpretation makes sense too.)
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Oct 10, 2017 16:23
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DorianGravy posted:I interpreted that a different way: she cried because, on some internal level, she could see what a terrible person Wallace was, but she felt trapped in a situation she had no control over. Whether by design or simple societal pressures, she felt she had no choice but to do what he said. She saw how helpless and afraid the new replicant was, and she knew that, despite the nice clothes and faux-authority, she was really the same thing. When she killed Joshi, she did two things: she both cried and seemed to relish the killing, showing the conflict within her. I think that Luv executes Wallace's orders with style and cruelty because that's the only way she gets to have an identity in a life where she has no agency. Luv and Mariette are both cruel to JOI, which is not surprising in such a racist and misogynistic society--pick on someone considered even less of a person than you are!
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Oct 10, 2017 16:24
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A few days ago I was drinking with some scientist buddies, and we got to talking about how awful it would be to attend a talk about DNA where the lecturer had opted to include an entire genome in his slides, reading out each individual base (“How many slides would you need, anyway?“ - “Technically, only four.“) It's a fairly somber movie, but the scene where K does research in old microfilms was an unexpected point of levity. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 16:26
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Steve Yun posted:Something else that caught my eye was how little of Los Angeles was even powered. When K first returns from the farms, he flies over LA and most of it is gray and dark, with the lights only on in major streets. The streets were the only things visible from the air, since everything else was roofed over or covered with solar panels. until you got to a high-rise area. It's the Sprawl made complete.
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Oct 10, 2017 16:39
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DorianGravy posted:I interpreted that a different way: she cried because, on some internal level, she could see what a terrible person Wallace was, but she felt trapped in a situation she had no control over. Whether by design or simple societal pressures, she felt she had no choice but to do what he said. She saw how helpless and afraid the new replicant was, and she knew that, despite the nice clothes and faux-authority, she was really the same thing. When she killed Joshi, she did two things: she both cried and seemed to relish the killing, showing the conflict within her. I took it this way too, the person was programmed to be stone cold so they could perform the work Wallace wanted but was aware enough to realize that was bad. The first time she cried I half-expected a face turn halfway through the movie or for her to appear with Freysa as the resistance people were showing up or something, but when she rolls up and kills Joshi of course that was it.
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Oct 10, 2017 16:40
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Steve Yun posted:
Oh yeah, that reminds me, I always got the impression of a smiley face from the rear end of K's car. But I think that's part of what I was talking about re: Tron Legacy though, both movies have a lot of lines of light on a dark or black background, often lingering on an abstract-looking shot. I think Tron wasn't really received all that well but I think it's a really good looking movie, in a similar way to this.
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Oct 10, 2017 17:44
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Olympic Mathlete posted:Is Wallace the only character in the movie/movies to have cybernetic enhancement? In a lot of cyberpunk stuff you'll have all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff bolted onto humans but Wallace sticks out. He has a little 'pill box' of clip in chips which I presume allow him to do other stuff than just control weird creepy flying cameras. Well, I think it's more that it makes him explicitly Less Human Than Human to contrast the other characters.
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Oct 10, 2017 18:28
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