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That assumes there's a neutral in the box. Depending on how crappy the construction is, it's not a sure thing.
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Sep 30, 2017 04:36
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My electrician friend came over and poked around. He says he can add 3 new outlets no problem because of the way things are wired and the places we want outlets are all directly below light switches. Some fun facts though: -Unit is entirely on 4 circuits, 4 fuses, but they're 30a fuses which he says is a huge overkill which defeats the point of fuses in the first place. The landlord was saying there's nothing wrong with the electrical because no one blows the fuses, but of course not when they've got 3 30's and a 35 in there. He was saying they should probably be in the 15-20 range. -The building is mostly knob and tube, which he says is perfectly safe, IF you have the right fuses to protect the wires, which we most likely don't but he's going to research the exact code stuff. -The grounds on all the outlets are of course just for show. -The panel in the basement for the building is very nice and well organized and totally up to code, but each unit only has what he's guessing a 40a service inside a conduit too small to ever be upgraded. But no one ever trips the breakers down there so it seems to be working. -Doing anything more than adding a couple extra outlets on the existing circuits would require a massive upgrade to the building and all the knob and tube replaced and a new city connection and all sorts of poo poo, basically gutting the electrical in the building. Which is something his company does, he just got off a 16 man 16 hour day gutting a house of knob and tube. -The new outlets will all be GFCI regardless of location because of the lack of a ground. His company charges about $100 an hour for his time plus 50% mark up on materials but he can install the outlets at $30 an hour (what they pay him) and will get us the materials through his warehouse for their discounted cost. So what would have been in his estimate about a $1200 job will be in the 200-300 range depending on what he finds in the walls. It's really really really nice to be friends with an electrician.
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Sep 30, 2017 20:33
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Hola DIY goons. I was about to install a dimmer switch for the dining room, and I didn't get what I expected after the plate came off. I pulled the fuse for the switch, and got the faceplate off, and pulled out the box. I was expecting 3 wires, but what I found was 2 wires that looked... kinda fabric-y?  Not sure what to do with this. Consult electrician?
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Sep 30, 2017 21:13
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The Zombie Guy posted:Hola DIY goons. I was about to install a dimmer switch for the dining room, and I didn't get what I expected after the plate came off. Normal 1950's(?) NM wire. As long as you don't need a neutral for your switch (and you shouldn't), you're fine-ish. It's not great having an non-grounded metal box/device but isn't correctable without running new wires. In general I'm less worried about possibly getting shocked than starting a fire via nails/screws into a stud. If power for this circuit goes to an outlet first, you could GFI protect that and ground the switch to the metal box with a bit of bare #14 or #12. If you can't easily replace the wire between light and switch (assuming there is a ground in the light jbox) or GFI protect the circuit I'd probably just replace the switch. It's not like it's less safe than before. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Sep 30, 2017 |
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Sep 30, 2017 22:18
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Blackbeer posted:Normal 1950's(?) NM wire. As long as you don't need a neutral for your switch (and you shouldn't), you're fine-ish. It's not great having an non-grounded metal box/device but isn't correctable without running new wires. In general I'm less worried about possibly getting shocked than starting a fire via nails/screws into a stud. If power for this circuit goes to an outlet first, you could GFI protect that and ground the switch to the metal box with a bit of bare #14 or #12. If you can't easily replace the wire between light and switch (assuming there is a ground in the light jbox) or GFI protect the circuit I'd probably just replace the switch. It's not like it's less safe than before. OK, you lost me with some of that, I'm an electrical noob. This is an apartment I rent, so rewiring the place isn't an option. The gist I got from your post is that swapping the switch won't be any worse than what's there now? (Assuming I don't gently caress up too badly.)
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Sep 30, 2017 23:16
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Yeah, it won't be any worse than what it was.
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Sep 30, 2017 23:57
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The Zombie Guy posted:OK, you lost me with some of that, I'm an electrical noob. This is an apartment I rent, so rewiring the place isn't an option. Will a dimmer fit? It looks like a shallow box from this angle. Personally, I always say not to touch things when you rent because if you mess up you aren't just dealing with your own property. If you don't have express permission of the landlord that can also cause a problem.
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Oct 1, 2017 01:58
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I just want to confirm something - I've got a stereo system. I am getting crazy kinds of interference from literally every source I plug in. If I plug in my turntable, I get a low pitched buzz. If I plug in my PC I get stuttering and buzzing when I play videos/games. If I plug in my guitar amplifier I get what sounds like radio interference (with nothing plugged in). Is it just a lovely stereo or are these lots of separate problems? EDIT: to confirm I thought it might be a grounding problem in the house, but I just ran an extension cable from a different spur to the stereo and the same issue. Southern Heel fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 18:28
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Thought you guys would get a kick out of this:quote:The InPower Docu-Series illustrates a powerful new method to restore social justice and accountability. Episode #1 focuses on solving the ‘smart’ meter problem: how we can prevent and reverse the installation of this dangerous technology, through holding corporate executives and government actors financially accountable — for the first time ever. And in so doing, we can restore safety in our homes, and bring balance to our world. The intro to the video is especially hilarious https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtIYFCjUTSo
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Oct 2, 2017 20:08
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Southern Heel posted:I just want to confirm something - I've got a stereo system. I am getting crazy kinds of interference from literally every source I plug in. If I plug in my turntable, I get a low pitched buzz. If I plug in my PC I get stuttering and buzzing when I play videos/games. If I plug in my guitar amplifier I get what sounds like radio interference (with nothing plugged in). Is it just a lovely stereo or are these lots of separate problems? That sounds like a grounding problem, specifically a ground loop.
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Oct 2, 2017 20:43
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kid sinister posted:That sounds like a grounding problem, specifically a ground loop. start pulling other ground sources until it stops (or make them no longer grounded, ie, if your laptop's plugged in, run it on battery, etc)
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Oct 2, 2017 20:50
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Agreed that it sounds like a ground loop. Does it roughly sound like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnd57eOyesk or this if you're in a 50Hz area: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmXI8ivfJZo If so, that's definitely a ground issue.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:38
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Southern Heel posted:I just want to confirm something - I've got a stereo system. I am getting crazy kinds of interference from literally every source I plug in. If I plug in my turntable, I get a low pitched buzz. If I plug in my PC I get stuttering and buzzing when I play videos/games. If I plug in my guitar amplifier I get what sounds like radio interference (with nothing plugged in). Is it just a lovely stereo or are these lots of separate problems? "Ground Loop" is a bit of a misnomer -- it's referring to the "ground" in the actual circuit diagram, which is used as a reference for the voltage signal representing the audio. This usually has nothing to do with the "ground" prong of your receptacle -- this should never touch your signal path. Instead the reference is the Neutral connection. Check the power cable on the stereo system itself -- there could be a weak connection in there that causes the same issues as the anything in your wall circuits.
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Oct 3, 2017 01:58
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Hubis posted:Thought you guys would get a kick out of this: So their biggest argument against smart meters is the supposed emf radiation that they emit? ....What about all the appliances plugged up in these same houses, and in all their neighbor's houses? Those are OK I suppose. Oh and time of use metering is treated like a scam by the utilities. Lol. That's the most fair way to bill, and would have been billed like that from the start if the technology had existed.
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Oct 3, 2017 03:32
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Hubis posted:Thought you guys would get a kick out of this: I'd be hanging on every word if it was about "energy companies are trying to legislate against net metering to hamper the solar power industry" but instead it seems to be "power meter radiation is mind control" or something instead?
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Oct 5, 2017 02:24
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angryrobots posted:So their biggest argument against smart meters is the supposed emf radiation that they emit? ....What about all the appliances plugged up in these same houses, and in all their neighbor's houses? Those are OK I suppose. Appliances? These are the kind of people that are worried about the transformers in 5VDC wall warts. Zero VGS posted:I'd be hanging on every word if it was about "energy companies are trying to legislate against net metering to hamper the solar power industry" but instead it seems to be "power meter radiation is mind control" or something instead? I was having a hard time figuring out the grift here. It seems to be a cross between taking advantage of the functional mentally ill (  ) and Sovereign Citizen promises of power through pseudo-legal mumbo-jumbo except with more of a leftist bent rather than the usual survivalist/libertarian flavor. I'm betting this guy charges for speaking appearances and follow-up "guides" (in addition to just accepting direct donations from people with more money than sense).Aaanyways..... e: actually, this might also interest people here. It's notable in that it seems like there's actually at least *some* degree of real engineering (and  ) put into it:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOJKcvFzJU8 The worthwhileness of the goal notwithstanding, it at least *seems* like a well thought-out way of going about it? I kind of wonder how much of this technology could be (or already is) deployed in a counter signal-intelligence capacity... Hubis fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 18:33
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I put in a (used) dimmer switch for the bathroom lights. The old regular switch had a green screw for the ground wire to be wrapped around -- which it was -- but the dimmer switch has no place to connect to the ground wire. Like I said, the dimmer is used and could be 25 years old for all I know so maybe it was made before those green screws were required. So having said that, what do I do with the loose ground wire? Just stuff it in the back of the outlet box and pretend it never existed?
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Oct 7, 2017 22:42
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Ballz posted:I put in a (used) dimmer switch for the bathroom lights. The old regular switch had a green screw for the ground wire to be wrapped around -- which it was -- but the dimmer switch has no place to connect to the ground wire. Like I said, the dimmer is used and could be 25 years old for all I know so maybe it was made before those green screws were required. Buy a new dimmer that is compatible with your new led lights and modern code.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:06
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H110Hawk posted:Buy a new dimmer that is compatible with your new led lights and modern code. Well the lights aren't LED, they're three incandescent globe bulbs for the bathroom fixture. Not really cutting edge stuff. I do have a spare modern dimmer switch with the green grounding screw, but there's just one problem with it:  A piece of old wire is stuck in the connector hole. Is there a way I can pull it out? I never could figure out how to use those tiny "push to release" holes on these switches, as I'm not sure what I should be inserting into them and then when I do push them, nothing ever happens (except for maybe the wire breaking as seen in the above pic). Alternatively, if I can't get that little piece of wire out, would wrapping the live wire to the screw next to it work just as good?
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Oct 7, 2017 23:26
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The screw terminal is generally considered the better way. The backstab is garbage, for the reason you can see there: strain on the wire makes it snap off way too readily.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:31
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Ballz posted:Well the lights aren't LED, they're three incandescent globe bulbs for the bathroom fixture. Not really cutting edge stuff. You generally use a small flat head. It should just pull out but as you are seeing their failure modes are fun for the hole. I personally would not want to give up grounding in the bathroom.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:42
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H110Hawk posted:You generally use a small flat head. It should just pull out but as you are seeing their failure modes are fun for the hole. I personally would not want to give up grounding in the bathroom. Yeah, I went ahead and used the screw terminals on the dimmer that had the wires broken off in the back, so it's back to using a grounded switch. Good to know those still work fine even when the wire breaks in the back, for future reference. Unrelated wiring anecdote from a few days ago: I was going around replacing the switch plates with some nice new decorative plates when I noticed that when I applied pressure for one particular light switch, it would short the power out for its circuit. I cut the power and took a peek behind the switch and saw that the wiring was held in place with electrical tape instead of twist on caps and it was rubbing up against another wire. 
Ballz fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Oct 8, 2017 |
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Oct 8, 2017 01:46
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Hubis posted:The worthwhileness of the goal notwithstanding, it at least *seems* like a well thought-out way of going about it? I kind of wonder how much of this technology could be (or already is) deployed in a counter signal-intelligence capacity... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(codename)
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Oct 8, 2017 13:35
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Hey, I've got some OC for ya. I've been renovating my basement and the previous owner's work ranges from utter poo poo to total disaster. While removing an outlet I found that the junction box feeding it had the hot/neutrals flipped. (The outlet was headed out to the left, feed coming from top...) 
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Oct 9, 2017 15:02
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Pulled a light fixture down this weekend to replace it, and found that the box in the ceiling appears to be too small for the new fixture. The holes for the mounting screws are 3" apart, while the new fixture needs them to be 3.25". I've replaced a lot of lights, in older homes than this, and never had this issue. Ideas?
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Oct 9, 2017 15:48
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Slugworth posted:Pulled a light fixture down this weekend to replace it, and found that the box in the ceiling appears to be too small for the new fixture. The holes for the mounting screws are 3" apart, while the new fixture needs them to be 3.25". I've replaced a lot of lights, in older homes than this, and never had this issue. Ideas? It's happened to me a few times, I drill the bracket and file it until I have slots that can reach the threads in the box
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Oct 9, 2017 19:06
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The bigger white wire is something I wired up. The other stuff is... scary. I think it was an attempt to ground but man I have no loving idea how to fix this poo poo. 
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Oct 10, 2017 15:24
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Doctor Butts posted:The bigger white wire is something I wired up. The other stuff is... scary. Looks like you have some ancient knob and tube that someone has spliced slightly less ancient cloth covered wire into. The real fix would be replacing that wire that goes off to the right, and putting in a real function box there.
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Oct 10, 2017 23:39
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devicenull posted:Looks like you have some ancient knob and tube that someone has spliced slightly less ancient cloth covered wire into. The real fix would be replacing that wire that goes off to the right, and putting in a real function box there. That's 1950s NM. The outer sheath was woven, but it wasn't cloth. It was some tougher fibers. Sometimes it even had a ground wire. But you're right, no junctions outside of boxes. Move those into one and it should be fine. Or just replace the ancient knob and tube. Oh, and figure out why there's a neutral attached to the hot side.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:55
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Doctor Butts posted:The bigger white wire is something I wired up. The other stuff is... scary. That is a hot mess. Just awful, sorry man.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:09
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kid sinister posted:That's 1950s NM. The outer sheath was woven, but it wasn't cloth. It was some tougher fibers. Sometimes it even had a ground wire. But you're right, no junctions outside of boxes. Move those into one and it should be fine. Or just replace the ancient knob and tube. Yeah where do those two white wires off to the left go? Also what's with the left splice being (apparently) taped to what appears to be a water pipe? E: how do you bring knob and tube into a j box? I assume there is some specialized clamp?
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Oct 12, 2017 13:40
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I think you bring them in with 2 romex connectors, because a connector is only for 1 conductor. Here's one an old sparky told me about...a connector to transfer k&t to BX called a "monkey face". 
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Oct 12, 2017 16:34
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Hubis posted:E: how do you bring knob and tube into a j box? I assume there is some specialized clamp? You free up enough slack and run it into a J box just like with NM. Use NM clamps as necessary.
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Oct 13, 2017 01:06
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If you can't get slack, get a plastic box on each old romex and put new romex between the boxes. The most realistic answer is to probably leave it as those splices are probably about as safe as the rest of the knob and tube system (or upgrade your wiring to get rid off all k/t for the same reason). Getting everything on arc-fault breakers would also lessen my anxiety if it were my house, but I assume you have a fuse-box. Anything short of replacing the k/t is polishing a turd. For the record, you can have 2 conductors in a 1/2" nm connector, but they have to be 12/2 or 14/2. I've never seen any acceptable k/t connector other than the weather-head looking one angryrobots posted.
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Oct 13, 2017 03:12
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On an unrelated note, gently caress sewage push stations in general. Just replaced a float in one and the previous electrician had loose wires nutted together just inside the enclosure (power in, line voltage down to float and back, and power down to pump). The methane (i assume) had corroded the exposed wire and nuts. The homeowner said she had questioned the electrician about it when he fixed the corroded bits a few years back and was told there was nothing to do but replace the wirenuts and clean things up every few years. I assume he just couldn't be bothered to drill a hole in the cement enclosure and bring the wires out to a weatherproof jbox. After pulling the pump out and going to get supplies, the homeowner hosed the pump off so I got to work in poo poo-soaked grass. I'll take snakes and wolf spiders over poo poo any day.
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Oct 13, 2017 03:31
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Hubis posted:Yeah where do those two white wires off to the left go? Also what's with the left splice being (apparently) taped to what appears to be a water pipe? I think it's all hidden above the ceiling in other parts of the basement that are more finished. There are a couple of circuit runs that are hidden up there that I'm going to need to get to eventually to sort out some things in the main panel. It's an old house and even though hot and neutral have been switched in an outlet or two, and even though that huge mess is up there, I so far have not seen any splices not contained in a box. But it is such a pain in the rear end to have to test, retest every outlet I want to do something with. Since moving here in early September, I've already run four brand new lines and I will have to run at least one or two more after that. If I knew how to pull wire through walls (especially in a slat and plaster house), I'd be replacing every friggin' line in here just so I know exactly what circuit powers what. The circuits in the basement are nuts and I can't even see all of them without tearing up these old rear end ceilings. Once I figure out how to ground the garage, that will be a relief, but I need to rewire parts of that anyway because that was wired up a bit strange too. From the line coming from the ground, it goes in the garage and then splits: one goes on conduit near the ground that has outlets all around it going around the garage. The other goes up, to a switch, that controls the conduit near the roof that has a dozen or so old junction box things that have wires come out of them that just go to screw in receptacles for lights. This goes all the way around just like the outlets. Unfortunately, it also goes to the motion detector light. So, if I shut off lights in the garage the motion light turns off. I have to split those up so I can turn lights on in the garage by one switch instead of a bunch of individual ones. So, here's a question: how do I make what I'm doing here safer? I know I need to get all these screw receptacles out and somehow cap off where they come from the junction for the sockets I'm not using. I also need to wire these LED's I put up directly instead of plugged in, but I don't exactly know how to make it more safe and permanent. Any ideas? Need to cap all of the unused junctions after I cut out the wire somehow:  Need to wire this directly to the junction without it looking like a mess/dangerous: 
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Oct 16, 2017 13:55
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Doctor Butts posted:
You could replace that conduit junction that feeds the light with a 4" or 4 11/16" metal box. It's probably going to throw off the spacing of the rest of the conduit, so you might have to replace things all the way to the next box in the first photo (which would maybe help with the first issue). Replace both junctions with metal boxes and reuse the conduit you have. It might not be long enough so you'd have to add on to it. If the wires aren't long enough, make new runs in the redone section and wirenut them in the new junction boxes. For the wires that aren't already wirenutted in those junctions, make sure you cut them off long enough to work with. After getting metal junction boxes in, you could come off of one to feed a ceiling outlet with MC cable or EMT (to plug the light in). Is this outside the US? Haven't seen those junction covers before.
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Oct 17, 2017 00:25
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It's in the US. This house is pretty old. Some owners past have gotten creative about reusing things- such as an unused shop light fixture as a junction box.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:22
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Doctor Butts posted:It's in the US. This house is pretty old. Some owners past have gotten creative about reusing things- such as an unused shop light fixture as a junction box. That's still probably legal, as long as it still closes tight and doesn't fray the cables entering.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:27
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| # ? May 10, 2024 02:55 |
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There are two outdoor outlets on my house, one is in front and the other is in back. They are protected by a GFCI breaker that trips randomly but constantly. When I reset the breaker, it will stay on for anywhere from 20 minutes to several hours; there doesn't seem to be any consistency except that it will always trip. How can I determine what causes the GFCI breaker to trip? This is what I know (and what I think I know): (1) Each outlet is wired to the breaker independently. It looks as if two black wires hook into the single GFCI breaker, two white wires are spliced into one that goes into the breaker, and the white wire that is a part of the breaker goes into the bar. (2) I had a string of decorative lights plugged into the front outdoor outlet. I unplugged it, thinking that there might be a defect in the light string that was causing the GFCI to pop, but it didn't make any difference. I don't know of any other continuous load on this circuit (which is labeled as "outdoor outlets" on the breaker box). (3) The outlet in the front has only two wires going to it. (4) The outlet in back has three wires spliced in the box. One set of wires goes to the outlet, and another continues from the outlet through a switch that is about a foot above it; I have no idea what the switch is for. I replaced the switch nonetheless and it remains in the "off" position. I don't know where the other wires go to. (5) Once there was an in-ground pool in the backyard, but it was covered up before we bought the house. I'm wondering if perhaps the useless switch was once used for pool lights. (6) I have replaced both front and back outlet receptacles, and the problem remains. (7) I tried replacing the GFCI breaker (it's about 25 years old, I assume) with a new one that included an arc sensor. It tripped immediately, so I returned the old GFCI breaker to the slot assuming the problem wasn't with the old unit. At this point I'm tempted to just replace the GFCI breaker with a regular breaker, because I don't know how else to proceed. Any suggestions? (This would be much easier if I could somehow trace the wiring, but much of it is hidden in walls.) Thanks!
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Oct 23, 2017 16:15
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