Dreddout posted:But I'm arguing that if the USSR or USA hadn't intervened the war would have likely stalled out eventually. Britain and Germany were in a weird situation where a land invasion by either party was infeasible. Hitler was so heavily invested into the idea of lebensraum that it's impossible for me to see how, once he was finished up in the west, that he wouldn't turn his eye towards Poland, even without the issue of Danzig. As was illustrated at the outbreak of hostilities, Poland was in no position to single-handedly resist Germany militarily and given that, I'm struggling to come up with a reason why Hitler wouldn't invade at the first opportunity. Hitler didn't want or need a buffer state in Poland, and he certainly didn't fear a military conflict with the Soviet Union. Now, you do have a point about the Poles potentially surrendering Danzig peacefully and this changing the timetable of the war, but I don't see how that doesn't just push back the conflict between Germany and the Soviet Union. In that scenario, whether the U.S. and England back the Soviets could be an open question. There definitely was a school of thought in both countries to let those two slug it out alone, then attack the "winner" fresh, but I think that we would have come in much as we did anyways, because the fundamental reasons haven't changed in the new scenario: Germany is still coming after Britain after they're done with the Soviet Union, and that doesn't go anywhere good for the U.S., and it's better for the U.S. to make Germany fight a war on two fronts. If anything, it might put U.S. troops in France faster, since by that reckoning, the U.S. then wouldn't be fighting a war against Japan and could devote full resources to defeating Germany.
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 21:47 |
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# ? May 14, 2024 17:53 |
Matthew Heimbach looks like he'd get winded trying to tie his shoes
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 21:54 |
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:this whole thing about idiots flopping around on the dirty-rear end floor of mcdonalds is excellent actually. we need a left-wing milo to go around triggering these people Is it at UNT? If this is at UTD, I might need to pm you to ask about some details.
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 21:57 |
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https://twitter.com/krangtnelson/status/917862115339264000 https://twitter.com/krangtnelson/status/917861386994245633
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 22:36 |
BrutalistMcDonalds posted:The German Nazis were really the worst-case scenario (kinda making a no-poo poo statement but hear me out) because they were extremely murderous -- even to each other -- while also being not *so* murderous that it derailed their attempts at taking power. I had never heard of this. Chilling
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 22:47 |
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ww2 hypotheticals about "what if the nazis did X" are dumb to peruse though because there was no way the nazis wouldn't always follow the same path they historically took since the reason why they took those paths were because they were nazis which you can't change imo the only ww2 hypothetical worth pursuing is the one where japan attacks russia and not the us since that one is at least plausible since japan schooled them a few decades before hand along with there being fairly sizable oil fields in siberia that weren't that if they got through a few pacific russian cities were ripe for the taking
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 22:49 |
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Gringostar posted:ww2 hypotheticals about "what if the nazis did X" are dumb to peruse though because there was no way the nazis wouldn't always follow the same path they historically took since the reason why they took those paths were because they were nazis which you can't change they did try it at Khalkin Gol and Zhukov wrecked them with combined arms. the Japanese realized they were way outclassed by the Red Army and pursued SE Asian expansion instead.
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:06 |
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Japan did attack the Soviets, and they hosed it up in 1939 and decided against expanding North. Not like the 5000km of Siberia is exactly easy to get through.
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:08 |
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Gringostar posted:ww2 hypotheticals about "what if the nazis did X" are dumb to peruse though because there was no way the nazis wouldn't always follow the same path they historically took since the reason why they took those paths were because they were nazis which you can't change Yeah, but then they tried again in 39 and Zhukov kicked their rear end up one wall and down the other, cementing a deep-seated fear of the Red Army well within Japan's high command (which correspondingly they didn't have for the US), and which was one of the (though certainly not the only) driving forces behind the 1941 neutrality pact.
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:11 |
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Japan did attack the Soviets, and they hosed it up in 1939 and decided against expanding North. plus if they did take Siberian territory there wasn't a labor force to exploit any of it, without having to ship up scores of Chinese.
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:14 |
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If Japan kept up with it's Siberian aggression, it's quite likely Japan would have become a Soviet Puppet state, rather than an American puppet. Hell, if the Nukes hadn't been dropped, and a land war commenced. it's quite likely Japan would have been partitioned German style, between the Allies.
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:21 |
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The guarantee that Japan wouldn't attack Siberia again is what freed up the Soviets to ship their eastern divisions into the Battle of Moscow, which was arguably the most decisive point of the war.
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:36 |
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Look its ok if alt history is your kink but its very stupid
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:41 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:they did try it at Khalkin Gol and Zhukov wrecked them with combined arms. the Japanese realized they were way outclassed by the Red Army and pursued SE Asian expansion instead. russia outnumbered them 2:1 in men, artillery, and air power; 4:1 in trucks; and over 6:1 in tanks yet lost more in every one of those categories during the battle including a massive amount of tanks considering how much of an advantage russia had over them had japan matched the resources that russia had in mongolia (something japan was more than capable of doing in mid 39) and not literally telegraphed that they had no intention of escalating things along the border it probably would have ended up much like the russo-japanese war did the SE asia expansion was also what led to the US placing heavy sanctions on japan to the point to where it made war with the us inevitable the point being is that had japan actually sent more than like 2 divisions and not given away the game so that zhokov could move a much larger force of 5 divisions to counter them without fear of attack elsewhere that battle would have more than likely gone much differently which means no SE asia expansion, no us sanctions, and russia without a place to move their industry to once hitler invaded
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:44 |
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Worst derail. Make fun of Internet C.H.U.D.s please
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:45 |
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Look its ok if alt history is your kink but its very stupid Personally I can't reach orgasm without at least three hours spent theorycrafting WW2 European Theater what-ifs. Elephant Ambush posted:Worst derail. Make fun of Internet C.H.U.D.s please The CHUDs have evolved. Now they just edge-post pseudo-topical bullshit in hopes of derailing criticism!
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:45 |
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history is both cool and very good.
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:47 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The guarantee that Japan wouldn't attack Siberia again is what freed up the Soviets to ship their eastern divisions into the Battle of Moscow, which was arguably the most decisive point of the war. Barbarossa was unsustainable and losing at Moscow was the natural endpoint of their exhausted offensive. The majority soldiers at Moscow were just recently mobilized units from Central Russia, the Central Asian SSRs, and the Urals. Only a few divisions from the Far Eastern Front were transferred West, and a lot of them didn't go to Moscow.
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# ? Oct 10, 2017 23:53 |
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what if hitler seduced stalin and then they went to the nazi moon base for the honeymoon
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:03 |
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thats iron sky
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:06 |
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[quote="“tower time”" post="“477255105”"] what if hitler seduced stalin and then they went to the nazi moon base for the honeymoon [/quote] lol if you think this didn't actually happen they called it the molotov–ribbentrop trip
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:06 |
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Well in my version they are furries and there is mpreg. special guest writer Pick
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:09 |
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Gringostar posted:
Japan wouldn't have had the capability to match the Soviet Union's resources without telegraphing their movements, and there's no conceivable situation where they could have held territory taken from the Red Army. Khalkin Gol wasn't even approved by Tokyo, so there wasn't even any kind of opportunity for there to be a logistical plan to pull that off. The Russo-Japanese war ended up the way it did because Russia was humiliated by the loss at Tsushima Straits where the naval loss was so massive that it inflamed the 1905 revolution and forced the Russians to sue for peace. That wasn't going to happen to the Soviet Union in Siberia, where they could easily give and retake territory unlike the loss at Port Arthur and Mukden in 1905. They also wouldn't have had the logistical problems the Russian army had in 1905, or foolishly commit to a naval mission into Japanese waters from halfway around the world. If the Japanese had, hypothetically, overcommitted forces they still would have lost in the end.
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:11 |
Gringostar posted:
While you're right that Japan certainly could have put more into Khalkin Gol, it's hard to imagine how opening that front would have gone well for them, even assuming that it somehow causes the Soviet Union to collapse sometime around the Battle of Moscow. By that point, the U.S. was going to be involved somewhere on the ground, and if not fighting across the Pacific, then definitely on the ground with the British in SE Asia. The whole SE Asia theater of WWII tends to get overlooked, but Britain, China, Korea, etc. tied up a significant portion of the Japanese Army and even with the resources they would otherwise be spending fighting the U.S. advance across the Pacific, it's difficult to see how they would have been significant enough to force a decisive end to war there, and that's assuming that they somehow tolerate the U.S. possession of the Philippines, which even without Pearl Harbor would have been a significant enough to spark war.
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:27 |
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Triangle Shirt Factotum posted:Is it at UNT? If this is at UTD, I might need to pm you to ask about some details. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 02:29 on Oct 11, 2017 |
# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:31 |
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Also i cant see any japans push into soviet terriotry that doesnt end in losses in china from the redirection of men and supplies, followed by the force starving in the middle of nowhere when guerillas inevitably cut their supply lines.
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:31 |
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tower time posted:Well in my version they are furries and there is mpreg. special guest writer Pick
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:33 |
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anyway, this should probably be moved to pyf history chat or something since it's about ww2 "what if's" and not about the alt right getting owned repeatedly Gringostar has issued a correction as of 00:47 on Oct 11, 2017 |
# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:38 |
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see above
Gringostar has issued a correction as of 00:51 on Oct 11, 2017 |
# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:45 |
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Gringostar posted:first bold: lol They wouldn't have even lasted a year, my dude. If the Japanese had committed to a full offensive in Siberia completely changes the calculus because - like I said - that kind of troop movement and mobilization would have been noticed and the Soviets would have mobilized a response. There isn't any reason to believe that any escalation by the Japanese of their commitment to Siberia wouldn't have been outmatched by the Soviets. If the 1:2 force strength at Khalkin Gol seems unfair, the entire Japanese Army was only 1/3 the size of the Red Army, and they were already committed to fighting a land war in China. Gringostar posted:anyway, this should probably be moved to pyf history chat or something since it's about ww2 "what if's" and not about the alt right getting owned repeatedly In all of these what-if scenarios, the alt-right gets owned.
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 00:53 |
Gringostar posted:SE asia campaign started like a year after and I doubt they would have invaded when they would have had siberias resources Japan and China had been fighting since 1937 and that war was already stretching their army. The manpower demands of that war were enough to mean that they couldn't muster the personnel for an invasion of the Hawaiian islands, and if they lacked the manpower for that, it's difficult to imagine how they could pull enough resources to invade, conquer, then hold enough of Siberia to be worth their while.
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 01:03 |
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there is a pretty good military history thread which could use some new posters in a/t https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3785167&perpage=40&pagenumber=652
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 02:21 |
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The Rumble in the Toxically Masculine Jungle http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/09/dan-bilzerian-dakota-meyer-feud-over-las-vegas-shooting-intensifies.html quote:Dakota Meyer, a Medal of Honor recipient, took to social media last week to slam a clip posted by Instagram celebrity Dan Bilzerian that showed the moments when a gunman attacked the crowd at a Las Vegas concert, killing 59 people and injuring more than 500. It's interesting to note here that Fox News edited the quote where Dan Bilzerian called Meyer "retarded" to stupid.
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 05:07 |
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dakota can be a mans name?
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 06:04 |
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I guess it should be here too.
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 06:06 |
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[quote="“pillsburysoldier”" post="“477265367”"] I guess it should be here too. [/quote] cutting white-man critique of rap coming all the way from 1993 through the time window, I see. Who is that?
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 06:08 |
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Mark Dice should be drowned in a truck stop toilet. e: https://twitter.com/iheartkipple/status/917935498169118722 Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 06:38 on Oct 11, 2017 |
# ? Oct 11, 2017 06:10 |
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pillsburysoldier posted:I guess it should be here too. lmao
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 08:32 |
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https://twitter.com/bakedalaska/sta...er%3D24%23pti33
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 08:56 |
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# ? May 14, 2024 17:53 |
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SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:dakota can be a mans name? Someone hasn't been paying attention to Disney cartoons, I see.
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# ? Oct 11, 2017 09:02 |