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Jamwad Hilder posted:natural insurgents, those Arabs  BUT MOMMY YOU SAID THEY WOULD WELCOME US AS LIBERATORS!
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Oct 11, 2017 20:03
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Siets posted:Hello Hams Friends. I come seeking aid and advice on military strategy and tactics to assist my glorious lizardmen in their eternal quest to be regarded as Cool Hipsters by the Old Ones. Telling you exactly what to do would probably spoil the campaign and be a pretty lovely thing to do really. I'd suggest picking a victory condition and just going for it (don't try to combine domination and the rituals). To interrupt the enemy ritual, you only need to have razed (has to stay that way) or held one of their three cities before the timer expires, so sending a single army over may be worth if if that's your aim. Personally I'd just focus on building up maybe 5-8 provinces and just take the rituals as they come. If the AI looks like it's going to win, just play the campaign out anyway. Saurus with shields and the occasional spear with a couple of the healing crystal dino-thingies is pretty much unstoppable. Not too expensive compared to it's absurd power level either (maybe add some other big things to stop it being boring).
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Oct 11, 2017 20:08
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Its Rinaldo posted:High Elves favorite hero from their history was an elf so dumb he got tricked by Khorne Kaine is not, in fact, Khorne.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:13
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Rygar201 posted:Kaine is not, in fact, Khorne. The fact that the elves keep telling themselves this shows how dumb they really are
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Oct 11, 2017 20:16
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Beer Hall Putz posted:Telling you exactly what to do would probably spoil the campaign and be a pretty lovely thing to do really. I'd suggest picking a victory condition and just going for it (don't try to combine domination and the rituals). To interrupt the enemy ritual, you only need to have razed (has to stay that way) or held one of their three cities before the timer expires, so sending a single army over may be worth if if that's your aim. Personally I'd just focus on building up maybe 5-8 provinces and just take the rituals as they come. If the AI looks like it's going to win, just play the campaign out anyway. Yeah that's fair. I suppose I can always experiment on my own. I just only have so much time to play games these days, so the urge to min-max is really strong. If I lose, oh well, I get to start dark elves and seek redemption with lizards another day. Completely forgot about revivification crystal bastiladons. Going to have to incorporate two of those in my saurus stack. How much do you value temple guards for their armor? I'm unsure how to evaluate armor and armor penetration in this game as I frankly do not really understand how it works within the games mechanics.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:17
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Siets posted:How much do you value temple guards for their armor? I'm unsure how to evaluate armor and armor penetration in this game as I frankly do not really understand how it works within the games mechanics. If you see an enemy unit that says "Armored" on their unit card make sure you throw a unit at them that says "Armor Piercing" such as temple guard. Alternatively, if you unit says "Armored" try to avoid enemy units that say "Armor Piercing". On the surface it is very rock-paper-scissor. Also on the unit cards you can hover over the bars that say weapon strength at it will give you a break down of damage into Normal damage, armor piercing damage, anti-infantry or anti-large damage etc. I am playing a lizard game right now as well and I take a few temple guard more for their charge defense, armor piercing and anti large damage more so than their armor. BadLlama fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 20:22
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John Charity Spring posted:Once you're on the recap screen there's a button to continue the campaign and then you can just keep playing. Wow, so I just noticed in my uploaded screenshot the big "DEFEAT" banner. I must be as bad at reading as i am bad at video games. Didn't realize that once I beat the vortex battle, I still needed to defeat other LLs attempts also, so time to go beat Malekith's rear end.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:22
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Grumio posted:The fact that the elves keep telling themselves this shows how dumb they really are Ritual murder of slaves isn't a very Khorne way to do things. Siets posted:How much do you value temple guards for their armor? I'm unsure how to evaluate armor and armor penetration in this game as I frankly do not really understand how it works within the games mechanics. They're over costed really. AP is a great stat, but I don't think Temple Guard pull their weight in the campaign. The AI really can't do much about the sheer number of high HP bodies that a shield Saurus army fields anyway. The major downside is that auto-resolve seems to hate the army composition and will lose units against undead skeleton spears 
Beer Hall Putz fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 20:32
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I think it's worth keeping 2 units of Temple Guard if you can afford it; as large unit killers, they'll keep your flanks clear of heavy cavalry and can intercept dragons and whatnot that divebomb your Saurus core.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:38
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Siets posted:How much do you value temple guards for their armor? I'm unsure how to evaluate armor and armor penetration in this game as I frankly do not really understand how it works within the games mechanics. Armored units are really good against infantry without armor piercing (swords, clubs, archers [not crossbows], spears [which are anti-large, so armored cavalry still should watch out]). It makes them much more survivable in combat, and is generally worth valuing. Armor piercing infantry are excellent against elite troops/large units, but usually less efficient for the points against chaff. Take Greatswords for example. They're both armored and armored piercing, and will be able to mulch their way through tougher troops like stormvermin or temple guard, but may lose to an equivalent points cost of clanrats simply by being overwhelmed with numbers Artillery and monsters are also usually armor piercing, but they also do so much damage that they're still effective against all infantry
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Oct 11, 2017 20:44
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Beer Hall Putz posted:Ritual murder of slaves isn't a very Khorne way to do things. Depends on the ritual really. Just a mass slaughter of bound captives, no. But a gladiatorial arena? He might approve of that.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:54
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Beer Hall Putz posted:Ritual murder of slaves isn't a very Khorne way to do things. "The Blood God cares not whence the blood flows, only that it does" Tz'arkan Daemon of Slaanesh, referencing Khaine. Its him you doofuses.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:56
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I believe their god is actually Khan.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:57
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BadLlama posted:I believe their god is actually Khan. I'm pretty sure Khaaaaaaaaaaan is 40k.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:59
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Siets posted:1. What is the ideal cost-effective lizardman army people are using around the mid/late game? I'm currently running 12+ sauruses because I read from the thread that sauruses rule, but their cost may be holding me back. I saw someone post a few pages ago about a 5-saurus, infinity-javelin-skink army and that sounds like it might be awesome both in terms of autoresolve power and also cost effectiveness, but wanted to get others' thoughts on lizardmen army comps (particularly for fighting skaven and high elves.) I generally ran with General, Hero, 8 Saurus, 4 Spear Saurus/Temple Guard, 2 Cold Ones/Horned Ones, 2 Feral Stegadons and 2 Fire Terradons. Tactics were fairly simple, bum-rush the enemy with the Stegadons, have the Saurus follow them into the mosh pit, use the spears to guard against cav or monsters, have the Cold Ones flank around and clear out ranged units before cycle-charging the mosh pit and have the Terradons attack enemy arty and then fire into the back of the mosh pit. For sieges, I just chucked the Saurus up ladders with the Terradons covering while the Stegadons knocked down the gates and everyone piled in. quote:2. I'm currently sitting on Mirror Pool of Tepok and Vaul's Anvil as my only ritual resource sites. I am just now getting to the 3rd ritual, while both high elves and skaven are already started on their 4th ritual. At turn 137, is it too late for me to turn this thing around and catch up? I'd rather win on my merits versus winning via that final copout battle if I lose the race, but if that's how things go with my first campaign it's not the end of the world. There's always next campaign. If you start making serious bank you can just throw 10K intervention armies around and since the AI will usually add theirs in they can easily clear out a ritual site, which will set them back. Otherwise the only way to stop them is to hit their ritual sites yourself unless you somehow grab every ritual resource site. quote:3. As of turn 137, I currently own the following 5 provinces: Isthmus of Lustria, Forests of the Viper, Coast of Squanching (thanks quill18), Jungle of Pahualaxa, and Jungles of Green Mist. My question here is: am I doing terribly in terms of territory acquisition and economic strength or about where I should be? You should probably look to expand your territory. This is me in turn 162  This is how I set up my non-capital regions (the capital region has every unit-producing building which cuts into building space)   That helps to generate a lot of income. The other way is this guy  That's a lord, on his own, sailing around snapping up all of the treasure sites. They give you money, they give you magic items, but above all they give big temporary bonuses to growth, construction costs, public order and tax income. With all of that money and growth, I was easily able to build up the regions surrounding me after I struggled to conquer them, which allowed me to build doomstacks to take more land, defend against ritual assaults, and pay off big fat bribes to get other Lizardmen factions to confederate and neutral factions to trade with me. My recommendation would be to get a lord into a boat, snap up some wrecks, build up a cash fund and then spend it on some doomstacks before crushing all the warm bloods. MadJackMcJack fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 21:00
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toasterwarrior posted:I think it's worth keeping 2 units of Temple Guard if you can afford it; as large unit killers, they'll keep your flanks clear of heavy cavalry and can intercept dragons and whatnot that divebomb your Saurus core. I prefer saurus spears personally, they hit harder against large targets. I also prefer the big dinosaurs. You can build a unique building in Mazda's capital that reduces upkeep by 25% on all your big dinos. I also run the blue line to make sure I get the full 23% reduction to upkeep costs. Typical army build for me is: Lord 2-3 heroes 3-4 saurus (mix of spear and normal shield) 2-3 mix of Chameleon Skinks and Fire Bola Terradons 2 Skink Javelins 3 Stegadon 3 Ancient Stegadon 2 Solar Engine 1 Revivification Crystal
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Oct 11, 2017 21:09
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People love the Saurus death wave for good reason, but strangely enough I've been slimming down my melee core in most of my army compositions across my favored races, mainly because I end up blobbing melee units way too much and it feels like I'm wasting unit slots on troops that don't even get to engage the enemy before they break. The sweet spot I've settled on is generally 6 melee units, 2 of which are usually dedicated anti-large. Right now I'm running my elite stack with Kroq-gar as Lord using an extremely-monster-heavy build: 4 Saurus Warriors in the middle, with a Stegadon in front of each unit. 2 Temple Guards, with a pair of Solar Engine Bastiladons in front of each. 4 Horned Ones, as my cavalry wings. Skink Priest for magic support, pick your poison re: school of magic. Heavens is good now, but I'm currently trying out Beasts. Expensive, but you can stack some serious -upkeep bonuses on your Lords to make this a lot more feasible to run. The neat thing about this is that while you're still reliant on an overwhelming rush of dinosaur murder to crush your enemies, you also get a boatload of ranged firepower to focus down key targets. And of course, this means the enemy can't just sit out and shoot you down, because you can shoot back with legitimate firepower.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:23
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Thank you! This is a wealth of information and I appreciate having the benchmark as well for territory size. I had no idea how well I was doing other than that it sort of felt like I was lacking in funds/resources/armies to stay ahead of the ritual race. I think what I can glean is that I likely had a lot of wasted campaign map movement and choosing poor strategic war targets. Those inefficiencies then compounded over the course of the campaign to lead me to my current state. I tried the lord on a boat strat early on and got immediately dunked by a Naggarond boat containing a full-stack. This led me to give up on the strategy (first mistake) and also go on a hell crusade against Naggarond with most of my armies in the north that lasted for over 50+ turns (second mistake.) Spent time razing a bunch of territory rather than focusing on expanding across the south early. I think a new lizard lord will be setting sail tonight when I get home, this time with a little more tact when navigating!
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Oct 11, 2017 21:24
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You slimmed down your melee core, by swapping out melee infantry for melee monsters?
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Oct 11, 2017 21:24
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Rygar201 posted:You slimmed down your melee core, by swapping out melee infantry for melee monsters? Monsters are waaaay easier to maneuver than a big block of melee dudes! They'll push poo poo out of the way because they're huge!
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Oct 11, 2017 21:25
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I've been trying out the beastmen in TW1 and I've gotta say the moon events are a bit insane. Sure the growth and the replenishment options are super useful for beefing up your army, but I just got an option that was Melee Attack +50 for 3 turns for every unit. I'm pretty sure that makes every unit into a loving chainsaw.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:26
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Real Cool Catfish posted:I've been trying out the beastmen in TW1 and I've gotta say the moon events are a bit insane. Sure the growth and the replenishment options are super useful for beefing up your army, but I just got an option that was Melee Attack +50 for 3 turns for every unit. To this day Beastmen are still the strongest faction on the campaign map, in my opinion.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:31
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Siets posted:Hello Hams Friends. I come seeking aid and advice on military strategy and tactics to assist my glorious lizardmen in their eternal quest to be regarded as Cool Hipsters by the Old Ones. The important thing to note, combat-wise is that every lord you have will want to put enough points into the red skill line to get the Saurus +attack/defense trait. Your saurus are expensive yes, but they are some of the best t1/t2 units in the game. You don't really need Temple Guard for armor piercing because your sauruses generally do *enough* AP on their own that they can hold up vs dwarves or chaos pretty well (IIRC, saurus damage is like 44ish and roughly half of it is armor piercing, which is kind of obscene for a unit that isn't listed as anti-armor), and TG are generally kind of rubbish for a t4 unit that requires an armory. With your sauruses, their attack and defense is kind of not great compared to other race's higher tiered infantry like most races greatswords, shadow dancers/wildwood rangers, corsairs, and the like, so you need all the +MAT and MDEF as possible to try and hold with the bigger boys because you don't really have a higher tiered infantry solution to other elites like you have with Witch Elves or Swordmasters or Death Globadiers. Cold one cav is not especially super good in a punchup, they are as slow or slower than most factions heavy cav without really having the armor or defense, and you lose the ability to control it when they start taking damage, which is something you do not want in a cav unit because it means they stop going after enemy archers and artillery and they start chasing Marauder Horsemen for the rest of time. I actually prefer Terradon riders as my fast support units of choice and I use them a lot like I would use Wood Elf eagle riders (melee charge them at enemy artillery and backline archers, barring that have them taking flanking potshots at the enemy melee line with the occasional cycle charge to break morale). Utilize your dinos. Stegodon and Bastillodon artillery aren't near as flimsy as other race's artillery and don't need as much babysitting. Think of them like Cygors where the moment it's no longer safe to continue artillery barrages due to friendly fire potential, flip them into melee mode and charge them in to scatter enemy lines. Even if they get bogged down and you need to get them out, it's not super hard because their attacks are big thrashy affairs that knock everything around them back and gives you space to maneuver out.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:31
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Real Cool Catfish posted:I've been trying out the beastmen in TW1 and I've gotta say the moon events are a bit insane. Sure the growth and the replenishment options are super useful for beefing up your army, but I just got an option that was Melee Attack +50 for 3 turns for every unit. IIRC aren't the TWW1 +replenishment buffs for chaos and beastmen basically broken because it only counts if you're in friendly territory (even in encampment stance) and they basically never are?
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Oct 11, 2017 21:36
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It used to be but a) beastmen heal to full moon events were always hacked in to work and b) they changed it in the last patch iirc
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Oct 11, 2017 21:38
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Siets posted:I tried the lord on a boat strat early on and got immediately dunked by a Naggarond boat containing a full-stack. This led me to give up on the strategy (first mistake) and also go on a hell crusade against Naggarond with most of my armies in the north that lasted for over 50+ turns (second mistake.) Spent time razing a bunch of territory rather than focusing on expanding across the south early. I think a new lizard lord will be setting sail tonight when I get home, this time with a little more tact when navigating! I can understand your first mistake, because I almost made the same one. That's my 4th sailing lord, the other 3 were jumped and killed. But at this point I've got so many confederated lords that the AI leveled up badly that I can replace lost lords instantly. Plus I didn't start it until turn 40-ish. If I'd done it from the beginning I'd have been swimming in cash from the start.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:46
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MadJackMcJack posted:But at this point I've got so many confederated lords that the AI leveled up badly I'm surprised nobody ever made a respec mod, tbh.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:48
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I'm not because it seems like something that is impossible to mod.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:54
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Mordja posted:I'm surprised nobody ever made a respec mod, tbh. I think the most elegant solution would be that any lords and heroes that get confederated into your faction just have their skill points reset automatically and you can just reassign them as you see fit. So am I the only one who wishes more races had caster lords? Not even the legendary lords, but like regular old generic ones that also happen to be spellcasters. As is only what, Chaos, Skaven, Brettonia, Goblins, and a limited number of lizardmen can have the generic caster lords? Where's the elf caster lords? Empire? I'm not counting Runelords or the Warrior Priest lord since they aren't really traditional spellcasters. Edit: Vampires too, I guess what I'm getting at is that I want Empire and elf caster lords.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:55
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I think having a full-time naval lord exploring for Skull Reefs is essential at the higher levels. Mine has brought in well over 100k in my current game where I'm around turn 90 which let me actually build up cities and I'm only playing on Hard, but he's been going since turn 1. I imagine Very Hard and Legendary absolutely requires that extra income to keep up. Try not to sail them too near hostile or bloodthirsty factions, I usually keep mine sailing around the edges of the 4 land masses in a giant circle.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:07
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So 1k Exta a turn minus upkeep of 350g + Increase in upkeep cost for other armies. Not sure if that is actually worth it?
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Oct 11, 2017 22:11
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Feels like the increased upkeep on Very Hard/Legendary makes a dedicated explorer unviable. Maybe early on when one additional lord doesn't raise upkeep that much. e; hope they nerf naval treasures either way, it's really weird how much more valuable they are than exploring ruins.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:11
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Kainser posted:Feels like the increased upkeep on Very Hard/Legendary makes a dedicated explorer unviable. Maybe early on when one additional lord doesn't raise upkeep that much. Exploring ruins is mostly a garbage trap and it's really loving stupid and lame. It takes a full turn to do and requires you to save scum to not potentially get dicked over by the event randomly killing your lord or something if you pick the wrong option while sea treasures are always 100% positive.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:14
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Gejnor posted:"The Blood God cares not whence the blood flows, only that it does" It's the other way around. Khaine likes blood from anywhere but Khorne is a picky hipster that only likes blood from big burly guys doing big burly guy things to one another. It's like a guy who only likes cold pressed Jamaican blue mountain coffee while the other guy just gets his from the corner 7-11. Khaine is happy with a bunch of guys getting their throats cut in the dark by assassins or a dude spitting out his guts from poison but Khorne doesn't consider any of that kosher. It's why most of Chaos has some poisons, spell casters or flankers but Khorne doesn't. Khainite units are all poison, flankers or sneaks. They're basically like Gork and Mork. Basically the same but different enough that you can see them as being fairly obviously different.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:37
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One has OCD the other doesn't.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:39
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Kanos posted:Exploring ruins is mostly a garbage trap and it's really loving stupid and lame. It takes a full turn to do and requires you to save scum to not potentially get dicked over by the event randomly killing your lord or something if you pick the wrong option while sea treasures are always 100% positive. The developer who created land exploration rewards must have not been on speaking terms with the one who did sea exploration rewards. Land: -Costs a turn -Moderate rewards -At least 50% chance to get nothing or a penalty Sea: -lol On VH I barely even see open ruins to explore since the AI resettles so fast. Meanwhile, any time I feel a little short on funds I send a lord to collect the tens of thousands that will have spawned in my general area in the ocean On an unrelated note, Steal Technology seems pretty crazy strong. SickZip fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 22:50
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Maybe they are grossly imbalanced to subsidise a piratical style with minimal settlements, whereas land ones have to be considered in relation to the income bonuses from plain ol' expansion.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:03
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Grumio posted:The fact that the elves keep telling themselves this shows how dumb they really are Almost like different writers have written enough different takes on things than anyone can plausibly believe either. Khaine as Khorne is dumb as gently caress tho.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:03
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Jeza posted:Maybe they are grossly imbalanced to subsidise a piratical style with minimal settlements, whereas land ones have to be considered in relation to the income bonuses from plain ol' expansion. This should mean the land based ones are much better? But instead they are much worse? 
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Oct 11, 2017 23:04
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Yeah, ruins are much more limited in general since the AI tends to be pretty active with settling stuff in this game while the game pukes out stuff at sea. No clue what they were thinking with that stuff.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:06
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