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Sinding Johansson posted:Well yeah I agree that's obviously all true, I think all that comes across pretty straightforwardly in the movie. What's unclear I think is the films conclusion. Why is birth so important? Is it because of its randomness? In conception there's unrealized potential, just as you were born perhaps a million other children could have just as easily been born in your stead had say a different sperm fertilized the egg that would have been you. Your very existence may be predicated on your mother having passed gas at just the right moment after coitus. The difference between having programming (humans) and being programmed (replicants) is significant. Hence the importance of there being a miracle. In capitalism there's is a central relationship between birthrates and profit. You need workers to produce the goods and work that you will exploit and you also need those same workers to make families that will replace them as they die out. You also need consumers, if your consumer base has diminished because of low birthrates then your potential profit is also diminished. Wallace says as much when he does his speech about how every great leap forwards needs a large slave force, and his company can't keep up with demand. So they need replicants that can reproduce via birth to augment the slave population (and the consumer base). This is, of course, pointing towards one of many horrors that lie at the heart of the capitalist engine, its consumption of life as a product. Actually i don't think replicants and humans (us in reality) are ''programmed'' differently, they are still manipulated and given direction by ideology. Even the desire for more life in the 1st movie is created by capitalist ideology. In other words to me there isn't any distinction between human and replicant.
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Oct 11, 2017 17:02
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Wallace does say that he needs the technology to help millions become trillions, which is both a reference to the population and his bank account.
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Oct 11, 2017 17:05
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I don't disagree but that doesn't explain the importance to the police sergeant woman or to the replicant rebellion who all themselves wish they were the miracle child
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Oct 11, 2017 17:40
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Sinding Johansson posted:I don't disagree but that doesn't explain the importance to the police sergeant woman or to the replicant rebellion who all themselves wish they were the miracle child It's the way an audience might desire being the revolutionary figure or the savior figure inside a story. Either in movies, books, video games and all other forms of narrative. Witch also extend to political narratives as well as they inform the type of world that is desired by either the storyteller or the person listening and injecting themselves into the story. To the police chief it was more that she knows that the dichotomy between human and replicant needs to be maintained for society to continue as it is. She only suspected that perhaps the child would rock that stability witch she was the assigned guardian of.
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Oct 11, 2017 17:50
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Tekopo posted:I was kind of hoping that the film had ended 10 seconds earlier, to be honest, although the friends I watched the film with disagreed. It was the only bit of full-on fan service in the movie. Like a much less egregious version of the ending to Rogue One: tack on an ending that has nothing to do with the film we've watched just to give closure for a different film.
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Oct 11, 2017 17:56
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feedmyleg posted:It was the only bit of full-on fan service in the movie. Like a much less egregious version of the ending to Rogue One: tack on an ending that has nothing to do with the film we've watched just to give closure for a different film.
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Oct 11, 2017 18:13
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Nail Rat posted:Apparently they did think it would do well financially. Ridley Scott was kicking around a bunch of different sequels for this one. I doubt any will happen now. I think we need to consider the rentier model here. I'd imagine a titanically wealthy arsehole like Wallace has effectively bought his way to a total monopoly on both the production of the replicants and authentication of their mental states via the baselining process. He probably gets to levy a charge for each time the replicants are baselined, and those that deviate from the baseline are retired. From his perspective he'll get the opportunity to continue with these rental fees for the intellectual property necessary to control his disposable people, even though he had nothing to do with their production. The base models can be born, custom and special advanced models he'll still produce. He's not a little like the gigantic arseholes who managed to successfully sue farmers for royalties regarding seeds that blew onto their land and were allowed to grow.
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Oct 11, 2017 18:27
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I can see an argument for swapping the shots around, but the last shot is super relevant to K's arc and I don't see why it should be cut.
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Oct 11, 2017 18:28
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Whats the consensus on Luv kissing K? It mirrors the earlier scene of Wallace kissing the replicant after gutting her. Is it just a show of superiority or something else?
Raccooon fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 19:12
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Ryan Gosling has a very pretty face, okay?
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Oct 11, 2017 19:18
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Mantis42 posted:Ryan Gosling has a very pretty face, okay?
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Oct 11, 2017 19:20
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That Perturbator video is pretty hilarious if you remember the actual 80s music they had in Terminator's nightclub scene.
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Oct 11, 2017 19:20
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pospysyl posted:There was a distinct lack of terrible saxophones in 2049. The scene where they're leaving LA for San Diego was some great / epic stuff akin to Vangelis
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Oct 11, 2017 19:26
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My Lovely Horse posted:That Perturbator video is pretty hilarious if you remember the actual 80s music they had in Terminator's nightclub scene. Burning In The Third Degree is horrifically catchy.
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Oct 11, 2017 19:33
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feedmyleg posted:It was the only bit of full-on fan service in the movie. Like a much less egregious version of the ending to Rogue One: tack on an ending that has nothing to do with the film we've watched just to give closure for a different film.
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Oct 11, 2017 19:35
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BarronsArtGallery posted:The scene where they're leaving LA for San Diego was some great / epic stuff akin to Vangelis It's a shame most of the movie goes for the large airhorn "Transformers farting" sound for it's entire soundtrack. 2049 music is nothing compared to Vangelis' work.
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Oct 11, 2017 19:36
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Well its budget was $150 million and worldwide it hasn't even cracked $100 million yet It'll pick up more a lot more cash if it does well at awards season. Streaming contracts and blu-ray sales after a movie wins a few awards are sometimes enough to push box-office disappointments into profitability. Plus, I don't think Warner Brothers ever assumed this was going to be a box office smash, I'm sure it's current performance is right alongside their expectations. They'll probably use some accounting tricks to make this do whatever they want financially, maybe bury some other losses along with it for tax purposes or what have you.
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Oct 11, 2017 19:40
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Deadulus posted:Whats the consensus on Luv kissing K? It mirrors the earlier scene of Wallace kissing the replicant after gutting her. Is it just a show of superiority or something else? I posted something regarding her state of mind earlier, but all her behaviour makes me suspect she's mentally and physically something closer to an old school nexus 6 combat model than one of the 2049 present generation, likely no implanted memories, and difficulties dealing with her emotions resulting in occasional childish behaviour. I think as implied by the records search scene that she finds K attractive but also sees him (and probably any other replicant) as a potential rival for Wallace's affections in a childishly competitive way. It's interesting that she certainly could have killed K at that point but instead runs off to stop Deckard from drowning whilst claiming to be the best. I see it as a minor echo of Batty's childish gameplay when hunting Deckard, as well as Wallace's rather more grim kiss, and it's sad that she does this only to end up dead at K's hands, necessary but sad.
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Oct 11, 2017 19:41
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Halloween Jack posted:That's not egregious. Jyn and Cassian had to openly defy the chickenshit leadership of the Rebel Alliance to accomplish their mission for the Rebellion. The end of the film is the fruit of their labour being handed over to a scion of said chickenshit leadership. It's deeply ambiguous even though you know what happens. What does following the plans all the way to Leia accomplish that has anything to do with Jyn or Cassian's stories? Their mission was to transmit the plans, which they did successfully. Following the plans from transmission through a series of unknown characters hands all the way to a character that is completely absent from the rest of the film is completely unnecessary and only there because it's "cool" that it links up with ANH. It screws up the pacing and it takes the focus away from the story that we've been following for the previous hour and a half. K's journey ends when he successfully delivers Deckard to his daughter. Seeing what happens after that is totally unnecessary to the story of the film and exists only to comment on a separate text. It's vestigial.
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Oct 11, 2017 19:54
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Ser Pounce posted:I posted something regarding her state of mind earlier, but all her behaviour makes me suspect she's mentally and physically something closer to an old school nexus 6 combat model than one of the 2049 present generation, likely no implanted memories, and difficulties dealing with her emotions resulting in occasional childish behaviour. Yeah the childishness angle makes sense. There is also the contrast between the chief's and Luv's attempts to hit on K. Luv has a very clumsy attempt with the some people show affection by asking personal questions statement then asking him a personal question. The Chief's attempt is just asking "What happens if I finish this drink?" The Chief's attempt is much smoother and shows she is an experienced adult while Luv is an inexperienced child. Raccooon fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 19:56
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feedmyleg posted:What does following the plans all the way to Leia accomplish that has anything to do with Jyn or Cassian's stories? Their mission was to transmit the plans, which they did successfully. Following the plans from transmission through a series of unknown characters hands all the way to a character that is completely absent from the rest of the film is completely unnecessary and only there because it's "cool" that it links up with ANH. It screws up the pacing and it takes the focus away from the story that we've been following for the previous hour and a half. K's journey ends when he successfully delivers Deckard to his daughter. Seeing what happens after that is totally unnecessary to the story of the film and exists only to comment on a separate text. It's vestigial. Like, why does Rorschach's story not end before his notebook winds up in the hands of a dopey intern at a wingnut newsletter?
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Oct 11, 2017 20:06
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s.i.r.e. posted:It's a shame most of the movie goes for the large airhorn "Transformers farting" sound for it's entire soundtrack. 2049 music is nothing compared to Vangelis' work. Vangelis' epic score would have been out of place in this film. Also you probably need to rewatch it because outside of the ending it never even sounded like Hans Zimmer. The vast majority of the music was a more disgruntled / foreboding version similar to Vangelis. But it gave that feeling of impending doom.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:24
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Ersatz posted:Yeah, I also thought it should have ended with K in the snow, since this was K's story. Hmm, however... I can't help but wonder if the immediate follow on scene implies that Stelline is somehow live streaming the snow flakes into poor K's dying brain, a profoundly disturbing thought.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:48
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Ersatz posted:Yeah, I also thought it should have ended with K in the snow, since this was K's story. I think this is an incorrect assumption. From my viewing, K is our main point of view of a story larger and ultimately more important than him. I think this is important to his character development. He goes from being a literal tool, to believing he's special, to realizing he is not special but he has his own part and his own way of effecting the story he's part of. I think that K's arc is important in how it correlates to JOI as well. She starts off very obviously artificial, matching K's almost robotic movements going through his day. Then she becomes seemingly more sentient while K becomes more special at the same time. Her death marks the begining of his realization of his actual part. All of this points to what I see as the movie changing its POV slightly. At first, it's a very third-person objective narrative of a Blade Runner doing their job. It eventually transfers to a more first person narrative in regards to K, this is why JOI becomes more "real". Because to K, JOIs love is the only love he's had and is therefore real from his perspective. After her death and his realization, it goes back to third person, but retains more emotion. This shows K's newfound self awareness that he isn't the main character or special, but that he is a part of a bigger story.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:51
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Ser Pounce posted:Hmm, however... I can't help but wonder if the immediate follow on scene implies that Stelline is somehow live streaming the snow flakes into poor K's dying brain, a profoundly disturbing thought. That's actually pretty interesting to ponder.
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Oct 11, 2017 20:51
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feedmyleg posted:It was the only bit of full-on fan service in the movie. Like a much less egregious version of the ending to Rogue One: tack on an ending that has nothing to do with the film we've watched just to give closure for a different film. If it were "fan service" then it would have been a hell of a lot more than an old dad putting his hand on the glass while his daughter that he's not able to touch cavorts in the holographic snow. Maybe think about the context of that last shot.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:02
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s.i.r.e. posted:It's a shame most of the movie goes for the large airhorn "Transformers farting" sound for it's entire soundtrack. 2049 music is nothing compared to Vangelis' work. I think the score works amazingly well, and while Vangelis is good I don't think a similar style to the original Blade Runner would have worked with this film. The originals score has a lot of sounds that are synthetic or actual versions of real people playing instruments. When the main character is a human in a harsh, mostly synthetic world, this makes sense. 2049 follows a Replicant though, the score correspondingly has less attributes of genuinely human created sounds. It's rather alienating and unnatural. This is useful for this movie because it forces you to focus on the harsh world that a skin job would see. This is why Dunkirk has a similar soundtrack, they're both trying to point out the alienation and lack of humanity in the world they're showing. And speaking of music, since it's October. Reminder that Ryan Gosling has a spooky album under the band name Dead Man's Bones
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Oct 11, 2017 21:13
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Another neat thing I just remembered: K is looking at a poor copy of JOI at the same time Deckard is looking at a poor copy of Rachel.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:23
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Kaedric posted:Another neat thing I just remembered: It's an interesting synchronicity. I think Deckard's 'I know what is real' response also applies to K's unspoken reaction.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:32
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Saw it again and loved it more. Thought Joi and Luv had some interesting development: The first time she goes outside she looks enchanted by the rain but then the camera reveals K is watching. He says she doesn't have to pretend and looks pained when she freezes because he has an incoming call. When K meets Mariette and Luv his phone chimes. It doesn't chime when the lieutenant propositions him but Joi later reveals she was listening and is jealous. The dialogue between her and Mariette is obviously very tense. In her next to last scene she's examining a filtration system while K sleeps. An individual expression of curiosity I guess but could be interpreted as her not only being able to act independently like when she hired Mariette but as having an internal existence apart from being programmed to love K. Maybe. Luv loves that being Wallace's assistant gives her status. The bald receptionist defers to her like K defers to the human cops. She gets twitchy when K reminds her she's a replicant and a slave. Thought about it and the protein farmer was probably farming protein to grow replicants. On further thought I really wish movies had intermissions.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:33
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Listened to some of the soundtrack on Youtube. I think maybe in hindsight I was being unfair to Zimmer. When he's mimicking Vangelis I tended to not notice, and when he did anything that wasn't like Vangelis I tended to notice a lot.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:34
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What is the canonical list of movies where people fight by throwing each other through walls? There's Blade Runner and this, the Terminator films and the two Hyams Universal Soldier films. There must be more.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:40
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Have you seen Steven Seagal's Marked for Death? This was back when his knees worked, and his body didn't need to be concealed under a Matrix suit.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:51
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I should clarify, in order to qualify there should be a diegetic reason for this type of action other than the hero being a gigantic rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:52
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I should clarify, in order to qualify there should be a diegetic reason for this type of action other than the hero being a gigantic rear end in a top hat. Man of Steel, Batman v Superman. Apparently that's what men of steel do to each other.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:00
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Man of Steel, Batman v Superman. Apparently that's what men of steel do to each other. Well, the one in BvS is an outright homage to Blade Runner.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:01
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Sinding Johansson posted:On further thought I really wish movies had intermissions. I remember when I saw The Hateful Eight with an intermission. There was something really refreshing about it. It'd only make sense for packed out opening weekend screenings though. Breaking a film for 15 minutes so the 10 people in the audience can go for a piss would be silly.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:05
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I should clarify, in order to qualify there should be a diegetic reason for this type of action other than the hero being a gigantic rear end in a top hat. Diegetic reason: trailer homes are small and there's not much room to fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPnv2NXMx8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xkoAGoOQi4 Daily Double Bonus: Kill Bill 2's trailer fight is not only an homage to Raising Arizona, it's also an homage to Blade Runner Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 22:10
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Steve2911 posted:I remember when I saw The Hateful Eight with an intermission. There was something really refreshing about it. Exactly what I was thinking and it ain't silly to the piss takers!
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Oct 11, 2017 22:13
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Nail Rat posted:I don't really see why replicants being able to reproduce will result in more slave labor faster. I mean yeah, there's not as much effort on Wallace's part, but a child needs to eat, be protected, taught, etc. It's almost certainly way less efficient. The factories/vats/whatever are only ever going to produce replicants at a specific rate. When you start talking about reproduction, you start talking about things like exponential growth. It's not the "doubling every generation" you find with asexual reproduction but it's still a massive and compounding increase in manufacturing capability.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:16
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