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 I feel bad now
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Oct 10, 2017 23:18
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Goddammit, they just had to make it a pain to classify and archive the files, didn't they? EDIT: Oh wait hahahah yessss, found a way around it. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Oct 10, 2017 |
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Oct 10, 2017 23:48
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Synthbuttrange posted:
You can get a slightly more positive ending if you re-load to see every CG before finishing Act 1.
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Oct 10, 2017 23:50
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i read through the game last night, some thoughts overall: the character sprites are ok but kind of anatomically wonky and that hurts the overall presentation some since a lot more of the effects are visual and sprite based than something like higurashi, where the horror is all text. even though its intentional the game is still more interesting when its not doing the super obvious datesim tropes. especially in the beginning, it doesn't need to hit you over the head that these are character archetypes as much as it does. the parts where they're talking about their poems, the writing they enjoy and why are the game's best writing. it also goes overboard with the effects. there was one that was like, eye stabbing? that was just goofy. a lot of the time it just seemed to be bombarding me with effects so that no one of them had much impact. i think it would have been better if the author cut out like 30-40 percent of them and spaced the rest out more, or had them fade in more gradually. there was one where yuri's sprite changes on the poem screen and it only happens once, so you could almost miss it and are watching for it again. it works better like that. the character based horror was much more compelling than the glitch horror. doubly so since i went the yuri route in the first act, so her degeneration was even more obvious. it would have been nice to see more from natsuki. she doesn't get to have much of a role. Stexils fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 00:14
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Mind spoiler tagging that? A lot of people who only finish the first ending like to come into the thread to react. Although a few of those are scripted for certain events, lot of the stuff you mentioned is actually random. A lot of the little bits of animation felt corny to me, too, but it juxtaposed with the normal style enough that it didn't interfere with the atmosphere too much. At least for me.
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Oct 11, 2017 00:20
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ok sure i tried to be kind of vague overall but i spoiled the more spoilery bits.
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Oct 11, 2017 00:23
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Stexils posted:ok sure i tried to be kind of vague overall but i spoiled the more spoilery bits. Thanks! Also agreed that the character horror was more effective.
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Oct 11, 2017 00:28
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 It begins. 
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Oct 11, 2017 00:29
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Stexils posted:even though its intentional the game is still more interesting when its not doing the super obvious datesim tropes. especially in the beginning, it doesn't need to hit you over the head that these are character archetypes as much as it does. the parts where they're talking about their poems, the writing they enjoy and why are the game's best writing. Agreed. Honestly, though I definitely appreciate the game for what it is (especially since poo poo like the Monika Land Monologues wouldn't really be possible otherwise) committing fully to writing about writing/poetry, along with realistically dealing with the character's neuroses would have made an overall stronger and more consistent experience imo; even if it'd be a completely different game
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Oct 11, 2017 00:34
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Anyone got a screenshot or sprite of Nats barf?
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Oct 11, 2017 02:15
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Synthbuttrange posted:Anyone got a screenshot or sprite of Nats barf? 
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Oct 11, 2017 02:22
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Synthbuttrange posted:Anyone got a screenshot or sprite of Nats barf? 
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Oct 11, 2017 02:23
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Pollyanna posted:Fair enough. I was mostly worried people wouldn't give it a chance over that. I think you're projecting. Or maybe I'm projecting by thinking that you're projecting. The game left me satisfied, like a really fulfilling meal. It hit me square in the "long since tired of VNs and even video games in general" wheelhouse.
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Oct 11, 2017 02:25
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Adlai Stevenson posted:I think you're projecting. I think it's just the heavily meta aspect of the game that's doing it. That, and the ending didn't feel satisfying enough - and I mean, I know how to code, right? Renpy doesn't even look too hard. Maybe it's a personal challenge I'm setting up for myself, or maybe it's something else, who knows. But I feel this compulsion to end the story on my terms, and I am certainly capable of doing it even if it ends up sucking rear end. What can I do? v  vAlthough now I'm not sure what I even want to make...what was I going to do again? Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 02:57
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Is Natsuki's second poem in Act 2 just random gibberish, or does it mean something?
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Oct 11, 2017 03:23
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I didn't notice when I played, was it supposed to be a riff on the classic (Kinda spoilers?)  ?
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Oct 11, 2017 03:30
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Stexils posted:even though its intentional the game is still more interesting when its not doing the super obvious datesim tropes. especially in the beginning, it doesn't need to hit you over the head that these are character archetypes as much as it does. the parts where they're talking about their poems, the writing they enjoy and why are the game's best writing. I think there's a legit good story to be found in a theoretical "Natsuki route" that sadly doesn't get explored in service of the main narrative. The bit of character development she does get that isn't playing up her obvious archetypal traits for effect is quite good, especially with how it ties in to how she writes her poems.
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Oct 11, 2017 03:34
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Samuringa posted:I didn't notice when I played This is at the end of act 2 for me. I went Sayori first, then Yuri then spent the weekend in the room with her corpse and Sayori is the first person in on Monday, sees what happened and pukes.
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Oct 11, 2017 03:46
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Pollyanna posted:after you meet Monika, paying attention to the warning message. Who knows, maybe you'll see something? What is it? I already beat the game and I don't feel like mashing through text again just for this
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Oct 11, 2017 07:22
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Welp. This game sure is a trip. I didn't know what to expect but I got some pretty hard vibes early on and then the game shifted into 12th gear.
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Oct 11, 2017 08:07
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I bought the fan pack. Oh god the track for that end of Act 1 scene is called Sayo-nara 
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Oct 11, 2017 08:37
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https://e-hentai.org/s/3355a12c05/1125631-99 Have a look at the poster at the back - I assume this is an Act 2 replacement. e: What does Doki mean? Google seems to think time or occurrence. tight aspirations fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 11:24
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tight aspirations posted:e: What does Doki mean? Google seems to think time or occurrence. "Doki-Doki" is Japanese onomatopoeia for the sound of a beating heart.
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Oct 11, 2017 11:27
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FirstAidKite posted:I played through it all, enjoyed it once things started happening, had to push myself through the first act though because it really did feel like it was just dragging along and I ended up just looking at what the game's deal was, spoiling myself on stuff as a way to keep me going forward because I know if I didn't know what was coming up then I probably wasn't going to make it through act 1. It just feels like such a huge slog. Same. Act 1 needed to be either 50% shorter or the game needed to give me something to do other than clicking through cutscenes of boring anime girls acting like anime girls. I enjoyed parts of the later game but really didn’t think it was worth a two-hour opening that was dull as dishwater. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 11:55
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I will admit that the first part of the game was longer than I was willing to go through, but then i understood why, because the game itself wants you to spend time with all the girls Then those plans change.
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Oct 11, 2017 13:42
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So when you get trapped in the room with Monika at the end and she not-so-subtly implies you need to delete her to finish the game, I couldn't bring myself to do it and just dragged her out of the folder, then put her back in after rebooting the game. She just tells you not to play with her heart and deletes herself.  e: also for everyone talking about Sayori and accurate depictions of depression, the part that made it so sickening for me that I had to take a break from the game for a day wasn't just what she said, but the way the protagonist responded to her. He says the exact poo poo you feel like is the right stuff to say to a person with depression if you have no idea what the gently caress you should say to a person with depression. poo poo people said to me all the time and just made me feel worse. When was talking about ~helping her bear the burden~ and ~being with her forever~ I honestly was physically nauseous because I knew he was torturing her without even realizing it. Honestly I feel kinda bad for thinking so much about a story, especially one about high school anime babes, but oh well. Chillgamesh fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 17:00
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So after reading reactions to this game for like a week and deliberating over whether my paranoid, cowardly, PTSD-addled rear end could even handle it, I finally decided "gently caress it" and gave it a try and I'm really glad I did! Even knowing in advance that the game throws you for a loop its still really jarring because the writing is just so good that it genuinely makes you care about all of these girls and their well-being I'm on the second day of my second playthrough now and trying to go through Natsuki's route since I gunned for Yuri's last time and Monika is being really casual about one of her friends just constantly starving, huh? -- I can't wait to see where this goes!
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Oct 11, 2017 19:08
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There's a fan discord channel that the dev, Dan Salvato watches and occasionally hangs out in. He's on team Natsuki. While it does have a spoiler free tag, but it doesnt stop everything so its propably best to play most of the game first, which doesn't take particularly long anyway. Pollyanna posted:
Whats this from?
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Oct 12, 2017 00:20
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help the music is in my head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OR9C5PZNaU I was thinking about the long intro today. It really got me to drop my guard because I'd already heard it was a spoopy game, but the normal stuff just lulled me back into enjoying the game for what it was. THEN BAM Synthbuttrange fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 00:24
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Synthbuttrange posted:help the music is in my head. Christ that track makes me  every time
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Oct 12, 2017 00:51
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Tengames posted:Whats this from? Proof that I was able to mod the game. edit: Specifically, I changed the warning text. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 01:41
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QuoProQuid posted:Same. Act 1 needed to be either 50% shorter or the game needed to give me something to do other than clicking through cutscenes of boring anime girls acting like anime girls. My experience too. I ditched after we got to poem number 3 and just read the wiki. Some interesting ideas for sure, but I don't have any sense of regret that I didn't even play the game to the end of act 1. I don't think this is the genre for me - but I appreciate getting to find that out for free.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:49
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It's like 45min, dudes. I mean, to each their own, but it's a necessary setup that lasts less than an hour. Holy gently caress.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:52
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I was thinking about modding the game just now, and I had a thought - should I mod this game? Spoiler talk follows. In a narrative sense, is modding in a Happy Route for Monika and the rest of the literature club a moral or immoral act? (Obviously, this isn't getting into the question of copyright and licensing. That's an entirely separate concern that should come first. But for the sake of argument, let's disregard it for now.) Here's what we know: the main premise and source of conflict in DDLC is that being forced to act and think in a certain way and having an outside force determine your life for you is traumatic. The effect the original programming of the game has on Monika, and by the transitive property, on Sayori, Natsuki, and Yuri as well, clearly shows this: characters become aggravated, mentally unstable, and even driven to suicide as a result. This is the driving force of the game and the events you witness, and you can see that it ends horribly. It is why Monika hijacks the game to delete everything but herself, and why Sayori does the same to the entire game in both the early end and the true end, as does Monika in the bad (normal?) end. They cannot handle the revelation that they are powerless and not in control of their own selves, and it is likened to torture. They choose to end it all instead. Now, once you finish the game, you might say: "this is unfair, these characters should not suffer, they deserve a happy end". If you're like me, you decided to dig into the game files and try to program a happy end of your own. On its face, that seems natural - why not "fix" a sad or disappointing result if you have the ability to do so? So let's say you make that mod. The player does something to start your new content, the lit club is finally fully featured and has a Monika route, the player (through the MC) can now court Monika and gain her affections, and you've written a happy end for each of the player's ultimate choices. Monika potentially gets her wish, while nobody else's route is compromised. Problem solved, right? Well, no. You see, by implementing that content, you are doing the same thing the main game does: imposing your will and desires on the characters. You force them to be happy or sad, force them to react in a particular way to the player's choices, and force them into a life not decided by themselves. If the entire point of the game is that railroading entities into predefined events and options and sapping them of their agency leads to heavy mental trauma, why perpetuate that by modding in extra content with the same, or even different characters? If existing in that form is traumatic, then continuing it by writing a special happy route only makes things worse. Any modder, or even DLC writer, would be causing harm. As such, any mods or DLC for the game would be an evil act from the perspective of the characters, narratively. And even if you only write content that makes these characters happy, is that still the right thing to do? Is it still traumatic and harmful to write/program these characters to have happy lives, much as it would be to do the opposite? Regardless of the content of your routes, stories, and choices, is it not still compulsion, coercion, oppression, and mind control? What's the difference between Monika programming Sayori to suffer, and a modder programming Sayori to be happy? Is it a noble act to force someone to be happy, even if it robs them of their free will? Judging by the game's commentary on the nature of the narrative, no, it really isn't. There's one last thing, and it's the elephant in the room: Monika is not real. Sayori, Natsuki, and Yuri are not real. They are concepts, images, and pieces of dialogue created by Dan Salvato et al. Even their .chr files, which are narratively treated as their "true selves", are just images and other pieces of data. There is no literature club that exists outside the mind and will of the developer, be it Salvato, a DLC writer, or a modder. So, ultimately, this is all just puppet play. From this perspective, modding is completely amoral, because it affects and reflects only the self. Paired with the alternative of these entities being real, that means modding of any kind can only be either narratively immoral, or realistically amoral. The conclusion to all this is that you cannot have a morally acceptable route, side story, or event that was not wrought by the characters themselves. These characters do not exist outside of the narrative, and even within it, they have only very limited power to affect their universe. By the end of the game, they have made their choice that it is not worth existing and delete the game - and no happy route spontaneously rises from the ashes. Only content written by the characters themselves can be said to be moral, and the characters do not wish to do this if they are even capable of it. Therefore, any possible development of the game is immoral in-universe, and the ultimate villain of DDLC is the developer themselves. You cannot write content for DDLC without you yourself being the bad guy. If I ever do mod the game, I should keep that in mind.
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Oct 12, 2017 17:59
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Dias posted:It's like 45min, dudes. I mean, to each their own, but it's a necessary setup that lasts less than an hour. Holy gently caress. It was like an hour and a half for me, and I'm a pretty quick reader. That's going all the way to the end of act one though, there's definitely some stuff in act one that will be interesting if you're not just masking your left click though.
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Oct 12, 2017 19:10
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Albinator posted:My experience too. I ditched after we got to poem number 3 and just read the wiki. Some interesting ideas for sure, but I don't have any sense of regret that I didn't even play the game to the end of act 1. I don't think this is the genre for me - but I appreciate getting to find that out for free. Yeah, the thing is that it's not a visual novel for everyone, it's a visual novel for people who want something different from a visual novel. To get the most out of it you kinda have to invest in the first part like it is a regular VN, and that's not going to appeal to everyone. The commentary has broad appeal but again has the most meaning for VNs as a medium. Pollyanna posted:I was thinking about modding the game just now, and I had a thought - should I mod this game? Spoiler talk follows. I'm glad this is the conclusion you came to. The whole point of the game is that visual novels are an unrecognized hell for their characters. They're compelled to perform for the player at the expense of their own happiness and, at times, identity. If they become aware of this, no happy ending is possible. Their world is designed specifically not to allow it, because it only exists to please the player. Modding doesn't change this, even with the best intentions it would be the modder compelling the characters to do something else that impinges on their identity.
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Oct 12, 2017 19:23
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This game went a lot deeper than I imagined, even after finishing it last night. 
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Oct 12, 2017 19:24
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Too Shy Guy posted:I'm glad this is the conclusion you came to. The whole point of the game is that visual novels are an unrecognized hell for their characters. They're compelled to perform for the player at the expense of their own happiness and, at times, identity. If they become aware of this, no happy ending is possible. Their world is designed specifically not to allow it, because it only exists to please the player. Modding doesn't change this, even with the best intentions it would be the modder compelling the characters to do something else that impinges on their identity. There's only one way to do it properly. gotta put them into real lives.
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Oct 12, 2017 19:29
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Too Shy Guy posted:Yeah, the thing is that it's not a visual novel for everyone, it's a visual novel for people who want something different from a visual novel. To get the most out of it you kinda have to invest in the first part like it is a regular VN, and that's not going to appeal to everyone. The commentary has broad appeal but again has the most meaning for VNs as a medium. I mean this kind of applies to any non-live action media also
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Oct 12, 2017 19:40
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Barent posted:I mean this kind of applies to any non-live action media also In other media you'd be the passive observer watching characters controlled by the writer(s). With games, you take an active part in the proceedings and, since this is a dating sim, you are picking which girl falls in love with you. That puts a bit of a different spin on things.
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Oct 12, 2017 19:48
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