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Kokoro Wish posted:Any truth to the rumors that Bezos took $600 Million from the intelligence agencies while head of WaPo and that this might have some distinct conflict of interest issues? WaPo opinion writers fellate the American security apparatus because they fear and hate anyone who is critical of the status quo and that apparatus gives them comfort, not because they're being paid off
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Oct 13, 2017 10:55
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7c Nickel posted:KM is setting up a thing to help out black goons. After initially doing it as a patreon thing, she pulled that because there were problems with using that format. I'm not even sure it was even up long enough to receive any money, but that won't stop certain parties from trying to scream fraud. I'll only address this once but: No money was exchanged through patreon and I was trying to work with some BFC posters (with the help of Moneyball) to figure out a better way to get it done, until my irl exploded this week. Also cause of everything going on in my life right now, my mental health has taken a serious beating and I had/have been taking a break. For the record it wasn't just black posters, but TGRS posters who are poc, lgbt+, etc. Aka vulnerable minorities who are more likely to experience poverty. It was not supposed to be a charity, but like a benefit society/rainy day fund/take a penny leave a penny community thing, specifically by and for TGRs. We actually managed to help one of users, and I'm proud of that. Koalas March fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 12:22
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I’m looking over ballot issues for next month’s election here in Ohio and found myself wanting to discuss them here on SA with other Ohio goons. Do we have a thread somewhere for state and local issues? Do you guys think such a thread would succeed? Should this discussion happen in this thread? What do you think? Specifically I’m interested in more knowledgeable opinions on Ohio Issue 1. All I can find are he said/she said articles in newspapers with little actual details on the impact. I’d love some law goon opinions. The bit I don’t like is giving victims the right to deny discovery requests. Seems antithetical to our system of law in general.
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Oct 13, 2017 12:41
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Coates not "believing" (whatever that means) in racial reconciliation is both stupid and reactionary.
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Oct 13, 2017 12:43
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The Kingfish posted:Coates not "believing" (whatever that means) in racial reconciliation is both stupid and reactionary. What does "racial reconciliation" mean to you?
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Oct 13, 2017 12:51
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Let's not start attacking a strawman here, link an article if you want to disagree with it. People misinterpret Coates all the time.
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Oct 13, 2017 12:57
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Black people not being brutally repressed by the police state; isolated and targeted for economic exploitation; disrespected by society and culture. America no longer a deeply racist nation.
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Oct 13, 2017 12:58
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The Kingfish posted:Black people not being brutally repressed by the police state; isolated and targeted for economic exploitation; disrespected by society and culture. So do you believe this is a thing that exists now, or thing that is possible? If you believe it's possible, What steps do you think the country would have to take to get there?
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Oct 13, 2017 13:00
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In all honesty, my issue with Coates seems to be a general disregard of class in his last Atlantic article. There isn't simply one form of power but multiple ones and when someone working for the Atlantic decides to completely disregard a form of power (especially class), people have a right to be a bit skeptical. Let's be honest, if the Atlantic isn't a form of rich white power, what is? If you want to change anything in this country you need leverage, and part of that has be honestly looking past the electoral process. I actually don't think you can "defeat" racism on a structural level through the system itself, the system has to be challenged and possibly dismantled. (I think if anything it behooves an article like Atlantic to promote the idea that 1. class isn't important and 2. there isn't any way to stop racism.) Ardennes fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 13:03
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Obviously it doesn't exist now. And obviously I haven't memorized a twelve step plan to eliminate racism.
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Oct 13, 2017 13:04
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The Kingfish posted:Obviously it doesn't exist now. And obviously I haven't memorized a twelve step plan to eliminate racism. If you have no ideas, vision or such for the path to racial reconciliation, why would you fault a black man (who is a victim of racism by default) for not believing it is possible? I am genuinely curious.
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Oct 13, 2017 13:11
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I have a plan to reduce racism in America: Interracial marriage, lots of it, over time
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Oct 13, 2017 13:12
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I have a plan to reduce racism in America: I know you are joking but being biracial and having interracial relationships myself.. I have seen first hand that it doesn't stop people from being racist. I have had to actually break up with someone (who I was living with!!) In the past because I found out he was casually dropping the n word in anger when I wasn't around. There was also a great post on Very Smart Brothas, about a biracial man and his toxic relationship with his white mother who became a Trump supporter that was heartbreaking. I wish I had it book marked. I've even had to check my own (white) mother, who thought it was hilarious to call one of my (black) cats a niglet.
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Oct 13, 2017 13:18
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Koalas March posted:
Oh I read the same article. The real answer is that we have to approach apparently insoluble problems as if they were soluble because 1) We don't know an answer will never be found and 2) incremental gains may be possible but nothing ventured etc. So even if Coates is correct that racism is a fundamentally insoluble problem, that doesn't mean we shouldn't work towards resolution anyway. It's the same logic as working on a cure for cancer -- we may never find one, and even if we did death is eventually certain for everyone anyway, but it's still worth working to seize whatever marginal improvements we can. It's Camus' Myth of Sisyphus as applied to race relations: we must believe Sisyphus is happy climbing to the mountaintop, even if he never reaches it. More concretely, we'll never "end racism" until we learn as a nation to stop fearing the Other, but "race" itself is a social construct and can change over time; a hundred years ago, the Irish weren't "white."
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Oct 13, 2017 13:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Oh I read the same article. Granted, I do think you won't solve the issue as long as the structures keeping the entire system in place stay in fact. I think part of the message is that "race isn't going to change unless we do something radical, and that should never happen."
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Oct 13, 2017 13:51
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Koalas March posted:I've even had to check my own (white) mother, who thought it was hilarious to call one of my (black) cats a niglet. 
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Oct 13, 2017 14:02
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Cheesus posted:JFC! If you want to add another crazy later he is named Walt, after the black kid on Lost.  And yes my 2nd cat has a name from a TV Show (The Mighty Boosh) as well
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Oct 13, 2017 14:08
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Koalas March posted:If you have no ideas, vision or such for the path to racial reconciliation, why would you fault a black man (who is a victim of racism by default) for not believing it is possible? I am genuinely curious. I didn't say I have no ideas. Police and prison reform coupled with massive government spending in black communities would go a long way—especially when implemented alongside universal healthcare and education reform. To flat out say it's impossible is to concede defeat not just to white supremacy but also to imperialism and nationalism. It's bad ideology.
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Oct 13, 2017 14:11
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Koalas March posted:If you want to add another crazy later he is named Walt, after the black kid on Lost. Oh god did you name your cat Mangina I watched Coates on Colbert the other night and Colbert was really thrown by Coates' statement that the problem of race may not be solvable. There's a general convention that public intellectuals offer some kind of hope; you can argue that that isn't Coates' job to do and that's fine and a valid argument, but Colbert's Catholic, and from a Catholic perspective, the alternative to hope is despair, and despair is a sin. On the other hand, it isn't the job of a black writer to offer white people hope if he doesn't want to or think it's justified.
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Oct 13, 2017 14:12
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Oh god did you name your cat Mangina quote:I watched Coates on Colbert the other night and Colbert was really thrown by Coates' statement that the problem of race may not be solvable. There's a general convention that public intellectuals offer some kind of hope; you can argue that that isn't Coates' job to do and that's fine and a valid argument, but Colbert's Catholic, and from a Catholic perspective, the alternative to hope is despair, and despair is a sin. On the other hand, it isn't the job of a black writer to offer white people hope if he doesn't want to or think it's justified. I do often try my best to help people slowly confront biases and such but holding white folks hands all the time is draining as gently caress and I'm not gonna judge or feel any type of way about a poc who just doesn't wanna do it.
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Oct 13, 2017 14:17
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Koalas March posted:So do you believe this is a thing that exists now, or thing that is possible? If you believe it's possible, What steps do you think the country would have to take to get there? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_of_Nationalities
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Oct 13, 2017 14:32
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I don't understand. I thought it was generally accepted that Collins was going to run for governor.
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Oct 13, 2017 14:38
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Why do people always hold up as perfect models states which could not even sustain themselves?
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Oct 13, 2017 14:55
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Democrazy posted:Why do people always hold up as perfect models states which could not even sustain themselves? Kind of ironic isn't that the reason they couldn't sustain themselves is that the US economically crushed them. If anything it shows the entire problem, we only limit ourselves to what is possible in terms of geopolitical strength (ie the American way) not what would actually be better. If anything the only way race/class probably will change is probably the US simply not being all-powerful. We need to break down our own superiority complex in order to change. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 15:00
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Democrazy posted:Why do people always hold up as perfect models states which could not even sustain themselves? *glances at the current US Administration* You were saying?
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Oct 13, 2017 15:00
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Ardennes posted:Kind of ironic isn't that the reason they couldn't sustain themselves is that the US economically crushed them...the same country that still has massive race issues. I don't think the US had the power to crush the Soviet economy; despite being a superpower, the United States isn't an all-powerful force throughout the world.
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Oct 13, 2017 15:05
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Democrazy posted:I don't think the US had the power to crush the Soviet economy; despite being a superpower, the United States isn't an all-powerful force throughout the world. Uh we absolutely did, and maybe the US isn't so much one of now but the world was unipolar from 1990-91 to the mid-2000s. Also, the Soviets got crushed because their economy was about 30-40% the rise of ours, and they were always screwed. If anything from 1917 onwards the entire history of the Soviet Union was desperately trying to find some way survive before the West invariably crushed them into little tiny bits (they lasted 74 years and 2 months). Ardennes fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 15:08
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Democrazy posted:Why do people always hold up as perfect models states which could not even sustain themselves? CommieGIR posted:*glances at the current US Administration* You were saying? ziiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnngggggg My favorite argument along these lines is pointing out the Icelandic Commonwealth to libertarians. It was a true anarchocapitalist state! And over two hundred years it collapsed into feuding to the point that eventually they all gave up and swore fealty to the King of Norway voluntarily because having an outright monarch impose some goddam order was just the far better option.
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Oct 13, 2017 15:09
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When I worry that some social problems are insoluble it helps me to think how people living in 11th century Europe might have believed aristocratic power was absolute and alternative ways to organize society were not possible. It took centuries to bring about conditions where transitioning to democracy could even be attempted. In the same way dismantling capitalism or ending racism might be impossible right now but incremental changes can make it easier in the future. Unfortunately that doesn't really help people presently suffering under an unfair system. 11th century peasants were as likely to destroy feudalism as they were to build a working fission reactor (something we know is in fact possible), as far as they were concerned reform was impossible. edit: typing that out it's clear this is dumbed-down historical materialism. I think the basic point is correct. Nocturtle fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 15:21
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I really don't buy the idea that cynicism and detached idealism are the only two options regarding racial relations. Progress has been made and progress will continue to be made moving forward. Obviously it's not all gumdrops and roses. The nadir in the late 1800's was a huge step back for racial progress in the US, but at the end of the day, almost everything negative brought about by the nadir was cancelled out, and the status of African Americans in our society had never been higher afterwards. If that can be done in the face of the Jim Crow laws, and segregation, and the level of hatred present at that time, the relatively small hurdles activists face today don't stand much of a chance when you start looking at time in years and decades instead of weeks and months. I can definitely see the argument that we are in a nadir of our own right now, and that things are going backwards, but I also don't think that is sustainable, and we'll come to a time shortly where a lot more progress can be made.
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Oct 13, 2017 15:23
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I feel like it's easy for white people or those who haven't been harshly affected by racism, institutional or otherwise to say "Yeah, we're taking steps back but progress will come!" Like ok that sounds nice but in meantime we're still losing our sons and daughters, Nazis have made a come back, hate crimes have spiked and we're still out here struggling right loving now.
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Oct 13, 2017 15:40
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Democrazy posted:Why do people always hold up as perfect models states which could not even sustain themselves? Also the Soviet Union was first and foremost an extension of the Russian Empire and making GBS threads on minority groups was institutionalized. Even other Slavic people were repressed and there was a policy of "Russification" in areas to keep groups minorities in their own homelands. There is a really interesting story of an Engineer from Jamaica who defected to Russia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Robinson_(engineer) His book is on my reading list, but I haven't got around to it yet.
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Oct 13, 2017 15:41
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If white nationalistism and facism continue to spread we will all get to harshly experience it.
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Oct 13, 2017 15:48
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the use of russian as a lingua franca for the soviet government doesn't invalidate the very obvious attempts to maintain autonomy and self-determination for ethnic minorities in the ussr (and the prc for that matter.) you might remember a little thing called world war II that got in the way of perfectly enacting early nationalities policy
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Oct 13, 2017 16:18
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BrandorKP posted:If white nationalistism and facism continue to spread we will all get to harshly experience it. It's worrying that the west as a whole is trending towards nationalism if not embracing fascism right now, at a time which will probably be viewed in the future as relatively good. The steady march of capitalism coupled with global warming are likely going to significantly decrease people's standard of living, even if or especially if it's not very high right now. At some point soon we'll start losing (more) coastal cities + regions and deal with large and persistent disruptions in food production. I get that white supremacy and
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Oct 13, 2017 16:19
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Democrazy posted:I don't think the US had the power to crush the Soviet economy; despite being a superpower, the United States isn't an all-powerful force throughout the world. I mean, this is objectively false when you take a sideways glance at the middle-east. We systematically destroyed the vast majority of leftist figures, parties, and progressively religious groups there to prevent soviet outreach and growth. We still do this in South America to this very day.
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Oct 13, 2017 16:20
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Hot take: communism won't exist at scale in a society where humans are in any way involved
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Oct 13, 2017 16:23
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Xae posted:Also the Soviet Union was first and foremost an extension of the Russian Empire and making GBS threads on minority groups was institutionalized. Ethnic and national relations in the USSR were complicated, here is a blog post I happened to have read in the last few days by chance https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2017/10/10/centering-the-russian-slav-by-destroying-russian-culture/amp/ Race, ethnicity and nationality are not the same thing. The Russian ethnicity (as opposed to others in the USSR) has historically been relatively weakly defined, because it basically has been defined as the "default" identity of the Muscovite state, which is the more fundamental power and construction. So in a sense it is like whiteness in that its power comes from being the default, but non-Russian ethnicities were allowed to have fairly wide-reaching autonomy as national political entities as long as they accepted some fundamental default-ness of the Great-Russian way of being, unlike black people who are murdered for kneeling at a football game icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 16:26
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Boon posted:Hot take: communism won't exist at scale in a society where humans are in any way involved well capitalism is literally going to grind humanity into dust so communism is still better even if you're right which you are not
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Oct 13, 2017 16:26
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Ardennes posted:Uh we absolutely did, and maybe the US isn't so much one of now but the world was unipolar from 1990-91 to the mid-2000s. I think I get what you're saying. My point was mainly that when people say that someone or something defeated the Soviet Union, in a way it's giving them too much credit. They didn't need someone to force the Soviet Union to collapse, their system provided enough impetus for them to collapse on their own. If I understand what you're saying, I don't think your trying to contradict that.
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Oct 13, 2017 16:28
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