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King of Foolians posted:Thanks for this insight and the inside perspective. I didn't know about rules some countries have about using 'real people'. Please don't think I was trying to attack you, I just thought it sounded funny to criticize Dove for daring to use aspiring actresses in their commercials but there is obviously more to it than just that. Oh, I didn't take it as an attack at all, don't worry. I think people tend to think that ads are a free for all, but anything made for an international market is going to be restricted by a byzantine mess of regulations so the industry has become very good at rules lawyering. Combine that with film - an industry with 150 years of creative accounting behind it - and all bets are off. Ads and film is a funny relationship; traditionally ad work is a way into film for a lot of people - the work is steady, the money is good and it's an easy way to build experience. But any filmed ad has three main players in its creation: the client, the marketing team and the production house (sometimes the first two are one and the same, sometimes they're not.) Increasingly, ads are workshopped to the point of insanity - it's not unusual for clients to demand 11th hour reshoots based on a mix of market research, focus groups and advertising theory that is bordering on superstition. As Barudak says, Rule No. 1 is "does the person who signs your checks like it?" so while I don't know particulars of this case I feel comfortable blaming Dove for the end product.
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Oct 12, 2017 18:25
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Der Kyhe posted:But if you are required to understand the context and take into account the whole material, you cannot participate to the weekly Internet hour of hate. The context is there's a centuries-long history of racist soap advertisements depicting soap "fixing" black people and turning them white, and it's a history Dove has a habit of contributing to even quite recently. And the people who chortle about "snowflakes" the way you're doing always turn out to be the thinnest-skinned most self-centered little special snowflakes of all. The meltdowns you do when something doesn't go your way must be spectacular. HAT FETISH posted:30 years of experience is kinda relevant I guess but Counterpoint: people are bitching and freaking they're poo poo because everyone,,, is too sensitive nower days . And holy poo poo yours must involve literal flinging of your own feces. King of Foolians posted:Thanks for this insight and the inside perspective. I didn't know about rules some countries have about using 'real people'. Please don't think I was trying to attack you, I just thought it sounded funny to criticize Dove for daring to use aspiring actresses in their commercials but there is obviously more to it than just that. Dove gets criticized for using professional actresses and models and then lying and saying they aren't. Do you chucklefucks always weigh in on things you don't know jack poo poo about or is it only racism you figure you can just amateur-hour your way through? Tiny Brontosaurus has a new favorite as of 18:45 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 18:41
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Werong Bustope posted:Ads and film is a funny relationship; traditionally ad work is a way into film for a lot of people - the work is steady, the money is good and it's an easy way to build experience. But any filmed ad has three main players in its creation: the client, the marketing team and the production house (sometimes the first two are one and the same, sometimes they're not.) Increasingly, ads are workshopped to the point of insanity - it's not unusual for clients to demand 11th hour reshoots based on a mix of market research, focus groups and advertising theory that is bordering on superstition. I worked for a major ad agency for several years. The senior creatives were basically in the business of tricking multinational corporations into funding experimental short film. And, of course, funding working vacations in exotic locations.
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Oct 12, 2017 20:45
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mllaneza posted:I worked for a major ad agency for several years. The senior creatives were basically in the business of tricking multinational corporations into funding experimental short film. And, of course, funding working vacations in exotic locations.  Honestly I can never hate on ads too much because a) a lot of drat fine film makers got their start there and b) having a producer for a mum and a director/DP for a dad meant a lot of excellent holidays. My dad always loved working for Italian companies the best; half the time they'd run out of money half way through and pay the crew off with whatever valuable items they had sitting around. We got some very nice furniture out of that. I think it's changed a lot though. Dad mostly works on actual films but mum is a career ad producer and she's considering retirement even though she loves working, purely because more and more clients stick their nose in to demand changes that adhere to some marketing theory but fly in the face of good film-making. The result is stressful jobs with over-worked, sterile end products. It's hard to imagine something as good as 'Surfer' or as insane as 'Tested for the Unexpected' being created in today's climate. And I guess you could argue that the function of advertising is to sell, not make art but who gives a poo poo. Edit: actually, Tested for the Unexpected is a pretty good example of dumb marketing. Surfer successfully put Guiness into people's minds as a cool brand; Tested was a bonkers fever dream that everyone loves but absolutely no one remembers was for Dunlop. small ghost has a new favorite as of 21:40 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 21:15
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:And holy poo poo yours must involve literal flinging of your own feces. I believe that the person was being sarcastic in this instance.
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Oct 12, 2017 21:17
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Werong Bustope posted:
Yeah, commercials and music videos are the only short films most people will ever see, and you have to respect that. Ad quality and messaging is important precisely because of the way they seep into people's brains. A lot of ads are set in "Normal America," so changing what they depict changes what people think of as normal more effectively than anything else we do. A cereal ad featuring a biracial family or a dish soap ad where a man does the washing up is more revolutionary than a hundred thousand lectures on equality. Advertisers need to be held to the highest standards, because they have the most power to define how we see ourselves.
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Oct 12, 2017 21:31
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is this commercial racist? or is it ok because Chinese culture is different https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Few8kJ0zfnY on a side note you know what really grinds my gears. when searching for this video I had to scroll through a bunch of "_______ react to racist commercial" before finding the commercial
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Oct 12, 2017 21:36
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Ein cooler Typ posted:is this commercial racist? or is it ok because Chinese culture is different Holy poo poo. China never figured out dog whistles
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Oct 12, 2017 21:39
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yeah, commercials and music videos are the only short films most people will ever see, and you have to respect that. Ad quality and messaging is important precisely because of the way they seep into people's brains. A lot of ads are set in "Normal America," so changing what they depict changes what people think of as normal more effectively than anything else we do. A cereal ad featuring a biracial family or a dish soap ad where a man does the washing up is more revolutionary than a hundred thousand lectures on equality. Advertisers need to be held to the highest standards, because they have the most power to define how we see ourselves. It's actually amazing how few people understand this.
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Oct 12, 2017 21:44
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CharlestheHammer posted:Holy poo poo. Their most popular chat app just got called out for translating “black foreigner” as n-word. If you spend any time in China you will quickly learn racism is everywhere at klaxxon blaring levels and nobody seems to notice or care.
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Oct 12, 2017 21:58
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mllaneza posted:I worked for a major ad agency for several years. The senior creatives were basically in the business of tricking multinational corporations into funding experimental short film. And, of course, funding working vacations in exotic locations. I used to do a ton of production work for experiential marketing events and yes, it seems to be entirely about senior producers convincing corporations to let them hire bands they love to play little 300 person concerts at crazy locations.
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Oct 12, 2017 22:33
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Ein cooler Typ posted:on a side note you know what really grinds my gears. when searching for this video I had to scroll through a bunch of "_______ react to racist commercial" before finding the commercial I find "GROUP reacts to THING" videos to be even more cynical and worthless than mainstream advertising and everyone that makes them should be flensed
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Oct 12, 2017 23:40
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I liked seeing old people react to XXXTentacion tbh
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Oct 12, 2017 23:48
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Barudak posted:Their most popular chat app just got called out for translating “black foreigner” as n-word. If you spend any time in China you will quickly learn racism is everywhere at klaxxon blaring levels and nobody seems to notice or care. This is a common toothpaste brand I've seen in Shanghai: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlie My dad has told me he doesn't understand why the n-word isn't okay to say because all his English textbooks were British/American textbooks written in an era where black people were referred to as "negroes" and no one thought it was offensive. I get the impression most people in China just don't really "get" the idea of certain imagery and language being racist against black people because they've likely never had anyone confront them on why the racist things they propagate might be disciminatory/offensive. On the other hand, there's much more overt racism that you can see all the time in China, which I think is much more problematic. In the SA China thread I've heard many schools refuse to hire black English teachers on the basis that they believe their English isn't "real American English," and my parents have observed people working in subways being visibly uneasy when interacting with black customers.
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Oct 12, 2017 23:51
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CommonShore posted:Because Dove's whole marketing strategy is "Real Women, Real Beauty, Photoshop is Evil, Body Image Positive" etc. They do this thing in which they claim that unlike the other beauty companies, who market using heavily photoshopped composites, they present actual women's actual female bodies. In reality, they just pick a certain type of already conventionally beautiful woman whose body is just as unobtainable, with or without photoshop. Pastry of the Year posted:I find "GROUP reacts to THING" videos to be even more cynical and worthless than mainstream advertising and everyone that makes them should be flensed
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Oct 13, 2017 02:49
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Ein cooler Typ posted:is this commercial racist? or is it ok because Chinese culture is different
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Oct 13, 2017 03:04
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bongwizzard posted:I used to do a ton of production work for experiential marketing events and yes, it seems to be entirely about senior producers convincing corporations to let them hire bands they love to play little 300 person concerts at crazy locations. Yup. When Nissan re-launched the Z line back in, oh, 2004 they hired Devo to do a 3 city mini-tour of free concerts, with 3 or 4 of the new Zs around for people to check out. I saw the show in San Francisco, it was a full set and an outstanding open air performance.
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Oct 13, 2017 03:19
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Ein cooler Typ posted:is this commercial racist? or is it ok because Chinese culture is different This is also a remake of an Italian commercial, which was just as racist in a different way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjuamNkZ5YQ
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Oct 13, 2017 05:39
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:And holy poo poo yours must involve literal flinging of your own feces.
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Oct 13, 2017 06:15
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pidan posted:Dove includes women of different skin tones, ages and body shapes into their ads because that's what they think will sell soap. They probably would sell skin lightening products in markets where there's a demand. Unilever, Dove's parent company, has a huge share of the skin lightener market in India
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Oct 13, 2017 07:36
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They must have no conception of taste if they think the buff black dude is less appealing than a chinese guy with a bowl-cut.
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Oct 13, 2017 08:48
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^^ Also Lynx/AXE deodorants
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Oct 13, 2017 08:52
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I feel like this backlash over the dove commercial is people trying so hard to be not-racist that they end up being incredibly racist. Like, what the gently caress, are black and white skinned actresses not allowed to be in the same commercial?
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Oct 13, 2017 09:48
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They can, as long as the black actress never appears first. Non-lovely joke answer: I cannot tell people what to not be offended by (no one can, really). I don't think the ad had that intention, but I also haven't been bombarded by similar ads for most of my life so my thoughts don't matter much. Also it's been really interesting reading about the 5-second skip changing the way ads work and things like that-- I'd never considered it as a factor before.
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Oct 13, 2017 11:22
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That's why a lot of movie trailers on Youtube will have a mini trailer before the actual thing, so they actually get something out if the viewer chooses the skip.
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Oct 13, 2017 12:28
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Oct 13, 2017 12:43
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I’m so happy the Chinese have supplanted Americans as the worst tourists in the world. Now they are even making us look less racist.
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Oct 13, 2017 13:24
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Parasol Prophet posted:They can, as long as the black actress never appears first. I've thought about it recently, as I was surprised by my reaction to TV series "Insecure" where white people are not in the spotlight. I'm white and come from rural-ish city in Poland, where seeing non-white person is an occurrence - my thoughts were "Isn't it racist that white people are not in these series?". But then I thought to myself "why should white people be in it?", and that you can reverse that to take into account entire TV programme where white people are the norm, and non-white are "token characters" and that, well, you can't really change the channel in the mixed-race countries (if that makes sense).
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Oct 13, 2017 13:31
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mllaneza posted:Yup. When Nissan re-launched the Z line back in, oh, 2004 they hired Devo to do a 3 city mini-tour of free concerts, with 3 or 4 of the new Zs around for people to check out. I saw the show in San Francisco, it was a full set and an outstanding open air performance. I got to do shots with Lil' Jon once at some marketing thing, maybe the highlight of my career.
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Oct 13, 2017 13:34
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Krispy Wafer posted:I’m so happy the Chinese have supplanted Americans as the worst tourists in the world. Was that ever a thing, maybe before everywhere got flooded by Chinese, Russians, and chav Brits
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Oct 13, 2017 13:41
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Phlegmish posted:Was that ever a thing, maybe before everywhere got flooded by Chinese, Russians, and chav Brits Yeah I don't think American tourists have as bad a rep as they think. In part because the shittiest Americans are too terrified an xenophobic to travel overseas.
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Oct 13, 2017 13:57
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Trig Discipline posted:Yeah I don't think American tourists have as bad a rep as they think. In part because the shittiest Americans are too terrified an xenophobic to travel overseas. Americans on tour are loud, stupid and overfriendly, simultaneously making them the best and the worst tourists.
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Oct 13, 2017 14:13
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The Ugly American may be a stereotype, but I've always been told that other countries have a love/hate relationship with American Tourist. They love the money, but aren't happy with our insistence on ice with every drink. Are the Brits considered bad too? I figured they were super polite (barring the whole colonialism thing).
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Oct 13, 2017 15:16
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Krispy Wafer posted:The Ugly American may be a stereotype, but I've always been told that other countries have a love/hate relationship with American Tourist. They love the money, but aren't happy with our insistence on ice with every drink. British tourists in Europe are famously a nightmare because our absolute worst people love to go to somewhere cheap and sunny and act like complete savages "because we're on holiday." More middle class Brits are less likely to pass out on the patio at 10.30am, but are much more likely to be vicious and racist about e.g. mediocre table service because "what can you expect in a place like this?" My main observation about American tourists (barring the ones that grabbed my wife and I to examine our tattoos and then gleefully tell us about how great Trump is, who I firmly hope drowned in the pool) is that they're way friendlier than British ones. Within ten minutes of meeting, Americans are already swapping home phone numbers and planning when they'll next hang out. They tend to be loud and ignorant and kind of condescending, but they don't mean to be nd often it's noticeable precisely because they're also curious and interested in what they're looking at and confident enough to ask about it in front of a group. British people will spend a whole week on a tour together and not even learn each other's names, and get to the end and complain how the guide didn't tell them about x or y but god forbid we ask about it. Everyone hates Russians though and the Chinese aren't exactly endearing themselves. The Japanese have the best reputation I think. Living Image has a new favorite as of 15:32 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 15:28
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The Louvre had to post a sign only in mandarin telling Chinese to not just take a poo poo wherever they happened to be standing.
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Oct 13, 2017 15:56
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What I'll always associate with British tourists is what I saw at a French beach: chubby white people lying face down in the sand without any sun protection (but wearing a bathing suit, they're not Germans after all). Depending on how long they'd been there their skin tone ranged from pasty to well done. They'd just lie there all day and presumably go to a fish restaurant in the evening.
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Oct 13, 2017 16:21
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Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
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Oct 13, 2017 17:51
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Phanatic posted:Strange things are afoot at the Circle K. That's either the most or least self-aware Circle K ever.
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Oct 13, 2017 18:08
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oldpainless posted:The Louvre had to post a sign only in mandarin telling Chinese to not just take a poo poo wherever they happened to be standing. That’s not how written Chinese works.
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Oct 13, 2017 19:27
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Corrode posted:
I disagree, he wasn't a tourist but I met the most Russian man in the world at a bus stop years ago. He was super drunk, asking everyone "Where you going? I buy you cab!"  He was adorable.
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Oct 13, 2017 19:38
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