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ive got a brilliant idea that will solve the problem: lets ban murder
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Oct 13, 2017 00:33
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gently caress YOU THAT'S MY RIGHT
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Oct 13, 2017 00:33
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:ive got a brilliant idea that will solve the problem: This won't work at all because criminals don't follow laws
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Oct 13, 2017 00:37
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Only real solution is millions of Jesus clones with unlimited Resurrection Bestowal powers so no one is perma-dead. Or immortality serum. Or everyone is vampires ban sunlight wood stakes crosses and werewolves.
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Oct 13, 2017 00:58
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Mr. Nice! posted:Regulating firearms similar to motor vehicles would be an amazing start. Mandatory liability insurance, registration, licensing requirements, etc. From an old post in TFR: quote:+++ INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS +++ quote:+++ TRAINING RECORDS +++
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Oct 13, 2017 10:42
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Bored As gently caress posted:From an old post in TFR: Yeah, you should probably stop quoting TFR. quote:Now, these same people who claim to be progressive and totally *not racist* and completely caring about the poor, just happen to want to force these segments of the population to be hit with punishing levels of insurance requirements in order to exercise a constitutional right. quote:That won't present any sort of burden or barrier to someone working full time in a job without benefits, let alone someone working multiple part time jobs, or who has a family, or who has to go out of the city because all of the gun stores have been zoned out of business such as in Chicago or San Francisco. They can just take some vacation days. And I'm *totally* sure that the testing to show competency will be run in an aboveboard and totally impartial manner, right? "You see! The progressives are the real racists by wanting stronger firearms laws! How dare they attack the poor like that! Now don't mind me as I blow this dog whistle a little harder while pretending to care about poor blacks!" I can't stop laughing at you comparing Firearms Training to Literacy Tests for voting. Jesus, you guys are hosed up. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 12:57
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If you own a firearm you have to carry "I Shot You" insurance. It works like car insurance. Watch how quick the laws change when insurance lobbyists don't want to foot the bill for 250 people getting shot and 59 of them dying.
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Oct 13, 2017 13:06
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CommieGIR posted:I can't stop laughing at you comparing Firearms Training to Literacy Tests for voting. Jesus, you guys are hosed up. The insurance bit is overly dramatic, but his assessment of the industry is accurate. The testing paragraph is poo poo, though. And completely ignores that we somehow already make it work. The academics I've received for my permits was fine...I'd like to see more proficiency training, but I think 40 hours is hilariously excessive. NUKES CURE NORKS posted:If you own a firearm you have to carry "I Shot You" insurance. It works like car insurance. That's not how insurance works. Companies won't offer it if they judge it'll be a bad financial investment. That's how insurance works. Anyway, there are actually several companies that provide CC insurance already, but it's for legal fees, not medical.
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Oct 13, 2017 15:26
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Godholio posted:
Hmm... and why would it be a bad financial investment?
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Oct 13, 2017 15:33
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It's not, inherently. That's why it already exists. But once again, if we're talking about making this mandatory, how about you explain what it's supposed to fix?
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Oct 13, 2017 15:38
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Godholio posted:It's not, inherently. That's why it already exists. But once again, if we're talking about making this mandatory, how about you explain what it's supposed to fix? A bunch of billion dollar companies having to shell out a shitload of money because a bunch of people are idiots? Nothing. Nothing about America's gun culture fetish would be affected in this, a country that values money above all else.
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Oct 13, 2017 16:44
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This cheeky bloke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPmzPANAOw4 Is "Fugitive Recovery Agent" a real thing, or is that some hilarious mallcop gecko45 style patch.
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Oct 13, 2017 17:59
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, you should probably stop quoting TFR. I'd agree with you about the "liberals are the real racist" thing being bullshit under any other circumstance, but mandatory training (not carry them concealed), insurance, or safe storage laws to simply own firearms will disproportionately affect the poor, and a disproportionate amount of the poor people in this country happen to be minorities due in large part to the systemic racism that has existed in this country since its founding.
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Oct 13, 2017 18:10
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TAQIYYA PURVEYOR posted:This cheeky bloke Yep. See Dog the Bounty Hunter....
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Oct 13, 2017 18:10
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TAQIYYA PURVEYOR posted:This cheeky bloke Either he's a bounty hunter or he's a US Marshall, I think.
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Oct 13, 2017 18:10
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Bounty hunters can carry guns???  Godholio posted:Two points: Canada gave up its gun registry because it was very expensive to maintain, solved 0 problems, and prevented 0 crime. While there are no examples of .GOVs checking a .xls and going door kicking to take guns away (that I'm aware of but lol if you deny it would be used to do just that), Canada reported annual cost overages in maintaining a registry that did nothing. A registry of all guns would do nothing other than put personal information of gun owners at risk to hackers and other stupid bureaucrats who would leak that info to the public, thinking they were the next Brad Manning or Reality Winner (lol yes that is her real name) doing humanity a great justice in revealing the names and addresses of gun owners! Hell, newspapers even published the names of gun owners that they had got from registry types of things: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/new-york-gun-permit-map/index.html Therefore, the case is easily made that registries are stupid and serve no purpose other than to keep tabs on who has a gun, which is nobodies business to be honest. They still go full tilt on health care though. uncle w benefits fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 18:12
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As far as I know, Canada only gave up its long gun registry. I believe it still has a registry for pistols and other restricted firearms. But you are correct, their long gun registry was a complete failure
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Oct 13, 2017 18:25
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Bored As gently caress posted:I'd agree with you about the "liberals are the real racist" thing being bullshit under any other circumstance, but mandatory training (not carry them concealed), insurance, or safe storage laws to simply own firearms will disproportionately affect the poor, and a disproportionate amount of the poor people in this country happen to be minorities due in large part to the systemic racism that has existed in this country since its founding. I've already said my position on subsidizing gun ownership in targeted communities, but really? "I know that ploy is bullshit for everything else, but by blessed coincidence, it is not bullshit when used to defend positions in which I'm heavily invested."
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Oct 13, 2017 18:30
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Are people in here denying that gun control as we know it today was truly started by the Democratic party to prevent black people from owning guns in the racist Jim Crow south?
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Oct 13, 2017 18:32
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Bored As gently caress posted:I'd agree with you about the "liberals are the real racist" thing being bullshit under any other circumstance, but mandatory training (not carry them concealed), insurance, or safe storage laws to simply own firearms will disproportionately affect the poor, and a disproportionate amount of the poor people in this country happen to be minorities due in large part to the systemic racism that has existed in this country since its founding. Lol "I would agree with you on everything except this because it would conflict with my viewpoint"
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Oct 13, 2017 18:34
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TAQIYYA PURVEYOR posted:Are people in here denying that gun control as we know it today was truly started by the Democratic party to prevent black people from owning guns in the racist Jim Crow south? Are you one of those who tries to tie the racist southern Dixiecrats to the modern Democratic party?
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Oct 13, 2017 18:36
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Do you not see how those fees, licenses, training costs, and requirements are akin to voter ID laws in terms of disenfranchising people? What do those voter ID laws do? They disproportionately affect the poor, infirm, people without transportation, etc.
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Oct 13, 2017 18:38
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DoktorLoken posted:Are you one of those who tries to tie the racist southern Dixiecrats to the modern Democratic party? e: On second though, I'm not going to touch this one. I will reiterate though that the following ideas are of no use and would not serve to prevent gun violence: *Gun registries *Mandatory safe storage laws, of which there are several states that mandate some form of 'safe' storage. *Liability insurance. lol just lol at the idea of this. "Hmm yes, not only did I need to pay a private citizen to take a state mandated safety course to exercise a constitutional right, but also I was required to insure my constitutional rights." Even background checks are useless. The only they they do is prove you haven't committed any crimes in the past, which cannot be an indicator of what you may do in the future. Paddock is a perfect example of this. It's simply a feel good measure a.k.a. security theater. Just like Illinois' FOID card, a stupid public safety initiative that serves only to generate a small trickle of revenue in licensing fees while doing *nothing* to further public safety. The only way we will see a drop in gun violence: repeal the 2A, spend hundreds of billions in enforcing confiscation (lol you thought the war on drugs was expensive wrt money and lives,) and outlaw the civilian possession of firearms 100%. As those are all fantasies, proposing piecemeal banning of things like bumpfire stocks or cosmetic accessories will only cause gun rights advocates (i.e. people who enjoy defending themselves) to dig their heels in and resist, and rightly so. Bored As gently caress posted:Do you not see how those fees, licenses, training costs, and requirements are akin to voter ID laws in terms of disenfranchising people? Ostensibly? They ensure you are allowed to vote IAW state and federal law by proving you are a legal citizen and resident of the correct voting region. uncle w benefits fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 18:42
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TAQIYYA PURVEYOR posted:
Because clearly we need to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands and get a broke brain, five second attention span orange piece of poo poo, because of the massive amount of voter fraud which amounted to a whopping 70 prosecution's one year
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Oct 13, 2017 18:48
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Bored As gently caress posted:Because clearly we need to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands and get a broke brain, five second attention span orange piece of poo poo, because of the massive amount of voter fraud which amounted to a whopping 70 prosecution's one year  You seem mad. I said ostensibly that is what voter ID laws do. Realistically? Well, they might inconvenience some people, but I can't imagine it's hundreds of thousands of people. If you don't have any form of ID that can prove who you are, then I don't know what to tell you.
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Oct 13, 2017 19:04
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Bored As gently caress posted:Because clearly we need to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands and get a broke brain, five second attention span orange piece of poo poo, because of the massive amount of voter fraud which amounted to a whopping 70 prosecution's one year Pretty sure you got what you voted for there, buddy.
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Oct 13, 2017 19:06
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redneck nazgul posted:Pretty sure you got what you voted for there, buddy. Lol if you think I voted for that shitstain.
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Oct 13, 2017 19:36
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TAQIYYA PURVEYOR posted:
Voter ID laws are crafted specifically to target minority voters to prevent them from voting and solve no fraud issues at all. Sure you can get a free id but the only office that issues them is 4-5 hours away and only issues them the third wednesday of the month. I work a lot with indigent vets. There are a lot of them with no valid ID or an easy way to get one. We help cut out a lot of the red tape and bullshit for people, but there are tens of thousands of others out there in similar shoes that do not have free legal assistance to aid them.
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Oct 13, 2017 19:54
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Mr. Nice! posted:Voter ID laws are crafted specifically to target minority voters to prevent them from voting and solve no fraud issues at all. Sure you can get a free id but the only office that issues them is 4-5 hours away and only issues them the third wednesday of the month. How do the voter ID laws target minority voters to prevent them from voting? What, are minorities incapable of getting an ID card? Last I checked white people are still annoyed by the DMV hours and locations, just as much as any minority. There are no private whites only ID offices. That seems like a very weak point. Minority: Hi I'm here to vote Polling Officer: OK do you have any form of ID that proves who you are? Minority: Yes I have a drivers license like 98% of the USA. Polling Officer: OK here is your ballot 
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Oct 13, 2017 19:58
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TAQIYYA PURVEYOR posted:How do the voter ID laws target minority voters to prevent them from voting? What, are minorities incapable of getting an ID card? Last I checked white people are still annoyed by the DMV hours and locations, just as much as any minority. There are no private whites only ID offices. That seems like a very weak point. You aren't eligible to vote just because you have a photo ID. If you were, a lot of this issue would be resolved.
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Oct 13, 2017 20:02
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Is 'voter ID law' just a pretty label that is applied to the actual law which is more nefarious? Unless the law was called 'voter ID law' but in reality you had to provide a passport in order to vote, that might be a real problem.
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Oct 13, 2017 20:05
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TAQIYYA PURVEYOR posted:Is 'voter ID law' just a pretty label that is applied to the actual law which is more nefarious? Unless the law was called 'voter ID law' but in reality you had to provide a passport in order to vote, that might be a real problem. I'm having a tough time putting this in a post without it being an essay so just read a brief summary of issues here: https://www.brennancenter.org/new-voting-restrictions-america I remember some dumb story about a place to get IDs in one district only being open on the 5th Wednesday of the month. Yes. The 5th. boop the snoot fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 20:07
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TAQIYYA PURVEYOR posted:Is 'voter ID law' just a pretty label that is applied to the actual law which is more nefarious? Unless the law was called 'voter ID law' but in reality you had to provide a passport in order to vote, that might be a real problem. You don't seem particularly well informed about these issues that you have such strong feelings about.
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Oct 13, 2017 20:12
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TAQIYYA PURVEYOR posted:Is 'voter ID law' just a pretty label that is applied to the actual law which is more nefarious? Unless the law was called 'voter ID law' but in reality you had to provide a passport in order to vote, that might be a real problem. Basically. There are very specific IDs that are allowed that are predominately held by republican voters while common IDs for minority voters are not. It has nothing to do with identification. Concealed carry IDs are accepted in many states with voter ID laws despite the fact the CCWs do not have photos. On the other hand very few states with these laws will accept student IDs from state colleges that do have photos. Free IDs that meet the requirements are deliberately made onerously difficult. Also, 98% of the country does not have a valid driver's license. There are quite a lot of people in places with decent public transportation that either never get drivers licenses or do not renew them when they expire. It really is pretty insidious because it seems innocuous until you dig under the surface.
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Oct 13, 2017 20:28
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Kawasaki Nun posted:You don't seem particularly well informed about these issues that you have such strong feelings about.  if you think these are strong feelings. Mr. Nice! posted:Basically. There are very specific IDs that are allowed that are predominately held by republican voters while common IDs for minority voters are not. A voter registration card isn't held equally by democrats? Mr. Nice! posted:Concealed carry IDs are accepted in many states with voter ID laws despite the fact the CCWs do not have photos. My Florida, Mississippi, and Texas CCWs all have had photos on them. CCWs are state issued licenses, how can they not have pictures on them? They would be useless otherwise. Mr. Nice! posted:Also, 98% of the country does not have a valid driver's license. There are quite a lot of people in places with decent public transportation that either never get drivers licenses or do not renew them when they expire. Then get a state ID. quote:It really is pretty insidious because it seems innocuous until you dig under the surface. Hey, just like gun laws! uncle w benefits fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 20:35
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TAQIYYA PURVEYOR posted:
You're talking from your hip and don't really have a clue about the actual issue. If it was as simple as "just go get a state ID" then it wouldn't be an issue at all.
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Oct 13, 2017 20:41
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Here's how voter ID works. "Hey you need one of these IDs to vote" 6 months later "We're closing a bunch of the offices you can get IDs at, specifically in these largely poor and minority areas" Like, that's actually what Alabama tried to do. Texas is already being a little more subtle. The two DPS offices we had for ~350K people were consolidated into one office that is equally inconvenient for everyone now. It's also somewhere public transportation doesn't go
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Oct 13, 2017 20:44
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A fair point. I'll go see what I can find about it since I'm likely not going to be convinced here, and it's just "you don't know what you're talking about" followed by "we're not here to educate you" snark. e: I'll let John Oliver tell me about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto uncle w benefits fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 20:44
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TAQIYYA PURVEYOR posted:A fair point. If the only place in your area to get an ID only issued the on the 5th Wednesday of the month, would that seem fair to you? Because that is the type of thing that happens in poor minority areas. Like yeah you can plan for it, but the nearest place that does it every day is an hour drive away. And the wait at places like that isn't usually short. So you have to take an entire day just to get an ID. Whereas that affluent county is able to drive five minutes and do it.
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Oct 13, 2017 20:46
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Don't forget Alabama, that purposefully closed multiple Drivers Licences centers in the poorest parts of the state right before elections.
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Oct 13, 2017 21:06
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