Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

D_Smart posted:

That's been that way since the channel was setup years ago. There are no comments on any videos in there because nobody has time to go through them to sanitize or moderate them. Especially with those Shitizen rear end-clowns on the prowl.

lol

https://i.imgur.com/Wrj5WHW.gifv

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:01

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 18:38

tooterfish: Jul 13, 2013

Ponzi posted:

Or would that come across as a bit needy?

I don't see how it could. It is Chris' money after all, and acting like you're entitled to it just because you worked for it, paid taxes on it and it's currently sitting in your back account makes you a massive oval office in my opinion.

People who don't pledge are literally robbing Chris Roberts. Just think on that, goon.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:02

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

his nibs posted:

Surely one terrible game in the thread is enough

man, you guys are mean.

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# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:05

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

thatguy posted:

Just helping out D1E and Variable so they don't have to type that.

Your sacrifice has been noted.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:05

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

By Derek Smart

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:06

D_Smart: May 11, 2010; by FactsAreUseless; College Slice

Thoatse posted:

lol

https://i.imgur.com/Wrj5WHW.gifv

I have to ask. WHAT THE gently caress WAS THAT!!? :asoiaf:

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# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:06

thatguy: Feb 5, 2003

Blocked clowns assemble, lend me your avatars.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:12

his nibs: Feb 27, 2016; Welcome to the
Dream Factory; Grimey Drawer

thatguy posted:

Blocked clowns assemble, lend me your avatars.

Derek's so mad you haven't been alphabetized yet

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:15

Flared Basic Bitch: Feb 22, 2005; Invading your personal space since 1968.

I�m legit envious of you, thatguy.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:15

TheAgent: Feb 16, 2002; The call is coming from inside Dr. House; Grimey Drawer

lol

quote:

Visual changes to planetary race tracks to make markers more distinct

quote:

Temporarily removed planetary racing assets

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:18

Beexoffel: Oct 4, 2015; Herald of the Stimpire

Tippis posted:

Don't really know if it's a disagreement or just an argument no the topic in general, but I'm going to archer a post from over at FDev on a very similar issue.

Nah, we wouldn't.

Instead, we'd say that the simulation on that level needs to have a purpose, and without that purpose, it just becomes [self-pleasing offal]. The thing about DCS is that 1) it's a simulation, which SC is not, and 2) the detail is optional but when you make use of it, it creates a very specific gameplay.

It's important to note that, for starters, the more popular DCS aircraft are the simplified low-fi ones � the F-15s and Su/MiG-27-and-above fighters � that offer your standard power fantasy of a (relatively) easy-to-fly craft with long-range weapons and fail-proof systems out the wazoo. The next most popular one � the A-10 � is a plane that carries even more weapons and which often just doesn't care if it gets shot at. So detail does not correlate to �caring about�.

Secondly, it's important to note that even among the full-sim aircraft, there are two sharp divisions at play. One is between flight modelling and systems modelling, where the micro-managey stuff only really applies to the systems, and for the most part, you can actually ignore all that stuff. The micro-detailing only really becomes interesting when the systems break, so the level of detail is mainly there to offer a broader range of options for things to go wrong and for the pilot to trouble-shoot. And that only matters if the mission is designed to make it matter. If all you do is fly 40nm and drop some bombs in clear weather, then it doesn't really matter that your lower NDB antenna is broken and you can only navigate by rolling over slightly � you're not doing any instrument navigation, or indeed any navigation at all, to begin with.

The other division is between the proceduralists and the combat pilots � the ones who want to learn the systems and checklists for the sake of system and checklist mastery, and the ones who learn them for the sake of knowing how to shoot stuff better. The former will care that sub-item 4b on menu Z leaves out selectable option Fnargle even though the flight manual clearly states that yadda yadda. The latter will note that option Fnargle has no impact whatsoever on the actual flying of the aircraft since it's just a ground crew maintenance flag and dismiss it as irrelevant because the ground crew isn't even part of the simulation.

So what and how does any of that transfer to SC? For one, there's the sim aspect. SC does not attempt to replicate anything real. There is no simulation � only simulacra. Not even the flight model has any kind of sim aspect to it since it's all based on a fictive high-order control system rather than on any underlying physics aspects of moving mass around in 0g environment. As such, there is no need to have any detail on that level, and all that you'd accomplish by adding it is a different �feel� in the ships, which can be achieved in a number of different ways. Indeed, performance characteristics and �ship-feel� would probably be better served by a simple system.

Secondly, there's the system aspect. Here, too, it's just simulacra since none of the systems exist, but more than that, the way the game is designed, they wouldn't add much even if simulated in any level of detail. It's an action game where combat needs to be quick and decisive, so there will not be enough time for systems damage to matter all that much. At most it gives the survivor something to do after a fight, as they scramble to restore what's broken before they plunge into the next one (compare system damage and AFMUs in ED), but where degradations during a fight can't really be dealt with other than to make the pilot break off, extend, and escape� but the game has yet to offer any kind of reason or method for doing so � neither flight nor economic model offer those options.

This directly feeds into the third point: proceduralists don't fit well with an action-oriented game � doubly so if it's a multiplayer environment. The gameplay they're after will just annoy everyone for no good reason, and unless it is made mandatory even for the ones who don't care, it serves no purpose other than to waste resources. Coincidentally, this renders all the theorycrafting of crewing up large ships rather moot as well. A fight where it would make a difference if the crew could keep repairing a ship would be such a boring fight that no-one would ever want to get into it. The point of the gameplay becomes the core argument for cutting that gameplay.

Tl;dr � the reason hard-core flight sims work, even among the hard-core audience, is that the obsessive detailing is there for a reason. It satisfies a gameplay purpose. It also replicates something real, which makes it interesting from a pure knowledge perspective. Above all, even there, it's completely variable to the point of being entirely optional and thus fit with the anticipation-of-action focus of a combat simulation; with the complete-lack-of-action of a study simulation; and with the immediate-action of just jumping in and shooting missiles at stuff. In a shared multiplayer universe, that variability and optionality cannot exist. Only one action type can be satisfied, and with it, only a specific level of detailing would even work to begin with.

Cool analysis!

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:20

Variable 5: Apr 17, 2007; We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they would be easy.; Grimey Drawer

thatguy posted:

Just helping out D1E and Variable so they don't have to type that.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:20

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

D_Smart posted:

I have to ask. WHAT THE gently caress WAS THAT!!?

I'm not sure so I'm going with dickweed

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:21

TheAgent: Feb 16, 2002; The call is coming from inside Dr. House; Grimey Drawer

rubweed, you mean

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:23

Beexoffel: Oct 4, 2015; Herald of the Stimpire

D_Smart posted:

I have to ask. WHAT THE gently caress WAS THAT!!?

Some species of Cattail I think.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typha_latifolia

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:23

D1E: Nov 25, 2001

TheAgent posted:

don't be fooled by the viewers that I got
I'm still, I'm still Derek from the Block
my escape keys don't do a lot
no matter what I shade I throw, I know YOUR loving ADDRESS YOU MOTHERFUCKER

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:25

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

SomethingJones posted:

Xenonauts
https://youtu.be/rQ_knzdb9iI

A faithful remake of the Julian Gollop one, and it looks like a ton of qol improvements too.

Oh, i backed that when it was on Asura. It�s a solid entrant.

Phoenix Point is the new Gollop.

https://youtu.be/gC0Es_bYhWM

Hav fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Oct 15, 2017

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:30

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

thatguy posted:

Blocked clowns assemble, lend me your avatars.

Congratulations!

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:35

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

TheAgent posted:

rubweed, you mean

I'm up, bros!

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:36

thatguy: Feb 5, 2003

Quote with caution.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:36

thatguy: Feb 5, 2003

his nibs posted:

Derek's so mad you haven't been alphabetized yet

Disgusting.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:37

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

thatguy posted:

Quote with caution.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:43

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Flared Basic Bitch posted:

I�m legit envious of you, thatguy.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:44

Sunswipe: Feb 5, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

thatguy posted:

Quote with caution.

"Attack The Doc" surely?

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:44

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

thatguy posted:

Quote with caution.

10/10 would watch

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:45

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Sunswipe posted:

"Attack The Doc" surely?

Perfect.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:51

boviscopophobic: Feb 5, 2016

thatguy posted:

Quote with caution.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 00:57

Snack Bitch: May 15, 2008; Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!

his nibs posted:

Surely one terrible game in the thread is enough

I like how the threshold for "gameplay" in this thread is "no crashes".

# ? Oct 15, 2017 01:00

Solarin: Nov 15, 2007

please probe any post about the block list I beg of you kayak wagon

# ? Oct 15, 2017 01:02

Flared Basic Bitch: Feb 22, 2005; Invading your personal space since 1968.

Solarin posted:

please probe any post about the block list I beg of you kayak wagon

Just block anyone that mentions a block list. Be sure to explain this policy in your sig. Also include a list of your victims as a virtual-heads-on-stakes style warning to others.

There�s a system for this god drat it.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 01:13

vyst: Aug 25, 2009

I'm loving with people in one of those Reddit threads. Feels good man

# ? Oct 15, 2017 01:32

Sarsapariller: Aug 14, 2015; Occasional vampire queen

cynic posted:

Hypothetically speaking (no not really - I've been in this position as a lead/senior dev loads in the last few years)

Company 1: Company owner wasn't going to change, stayed 9 months, I sat down and just about gave myself an aneurysm fixing the very worst non-scaleable spaghetti code I've ever seen, then left for a new company paying 15% more and wasn't in such a giant hole of technical debt.

Company 2: Good boss, but serious corporate issues (mandatory 20% departmental savings year-on-year forever to make shareholders happy). After a year and a half of taking a lead on projects I asked for a pay rise (and more responsibilities, and a new job title), told that I couldn't get a new job title purely because of politics, and I could get 50% of my pay rise request. It turns out that my pay rise request being approved meant that no-one else in my department was getting one - that is an incredibly disturbing sign of a company going down the shitter. They had a working product at least.

Company 3: I start in 2 weeks - I had a ready-made explanation of why I wanted to leave my previous position ready for the interviews; people know that feeling - I've never felt like it was a black mark, that I just had to strike the right diplomatic language in any interviews. Got my job title and requested pay as well, plus private health and 3x the previous pension offering.

#2 is very similar to some experiences I had at the last place. Pay raise for me meant nobody else got one, and all. Boy it's weird to me that companies consistently don't want to pay devs properly. When your entire business runs on code that has to be maintained a 10% annual raise is nothing compared to training a new dev, or dealing with the damage that the incompetent ones do when your good ones bail on you. It's no wonder these places (game companies and others) end up with bottom of the barrel people who've been there for 20+ years- everyone who can move on is going to. I think for now I'm going to stick it out, because I really don't like to quit and they did give me a decent raise over the last place, but I'm probably going to bail in a year or so if I can't fix some of the communication. I've never met a place that didn't even use whiteboards, for god's sake.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 01:39

tooterfish: Jul 13, 2013

Hav posted:

Oh, i backed that when it was on Asura. It�s a solid entrant.

Phoenix Point is the new Gollop.

https://youtu.be/gC0Es_bYhWM

Oh great, the jerk's remaking Terror from the loving Deep.

Like I'm not broken enough.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 01:57

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Lt_Tofu posted:

I like how the threshold for "gameplay" in this thread* is "no crashes".

*Threshold not upheld by all participants of this thread.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 01:58

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

thatguy posted:

Quote with caution.

Solarin posted:

please probe any post about the block list I beg of you kayak wagon

Flared Basic Bitch posted:

Just block anyone that mentions a block list. Be sure to explain this policy in your sig. Also include a list of your victims as a virtual-heads-on-stakes style warning to others.

There's a system for this god drat it.

god drat I love you all.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 02:28

Spiderdrake: May 12, 2001

tooterfish posted:

Oh great, the jerk's remaking Terror from the loving Deep.

Like I'm not broken enough.

I've still never eaten lobster

# ? Oct 15, 2017 02:34

SpaceCurtisLeMay: Sep 30, 2016; We're at war with Goons. We were attacked by Goons. Do you want to kill Goons, or would you rather have Citizens killed?

Zest posted:

a
As usual, SomethingJones, you've struck at the heart of the issue: Elite has plainly obvious potential for novel gameplay experience, but it's being squandered by the same broke-brained obsession with fidelity and simulationism seen in Star Citizen, just with a competent development team. I adore the attention and polish Frontier put into the flight model and galaxy, but they only have the skeleton of an actual game in place. More than CIG, sure, but it's still hampered by development focusing on fluff and polish when they should be iterating more on core gameplay loops and player interactions.

Frankly, I just want a contemporary Open-world style Freespace 2 / Freelancer hybrid. Elite Dangerous's flight model and galaxy size with EvE's trading system and some basic quality of life mechanics to support it.

EDIT: gently caress it, gimme first person HOTAS EvE/SPAZ

Thing is elite has a decently solid core that needs gameplay added. Star citizen doesn�t even have a solid core

# ? Oct 15, 2017 02:40

Variable 5: Apr 17, 2007; We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they would be easy.; Grimey Drawer

SpaceCurtisLeMay posted:

Thing is elite has a decently solid core that needs gameplay added. Star citizen doesn�t even have a solid core

Ben though

# ? Oct 15, 2017 02:52

nnnotime: Sep 30, 2001; Hesitate, and you will be lost.

Spiderdrake posted:

I've still never eaten lobster

In Phoenix Point the Lobster-men will help you out and demonstrate how it's done, by eating you first.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 02:58

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 18:38

Hobold: Jan 10, 2012; I love my Cutlass
I love big stompy mechs
I love my HOTAS
I love to salvage wrecks
I love Star Citizen, and all it's craziness
GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA; College Slice

Variable 5 posted:

Ben though

Thats not solid. Massive sure, but very squishy and a terrible foundation upon which to build anything.

# ? Oct 15, 2017 02:59

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