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rabidsquid posted:its sort of weird to me how stupid some stuff is from a coaching viewpoint. one of those games immortals lost its because they didnt fundamentally understand their comp and flame was using maokai to engage when the team comp didnt support that and he needed to be using his buttons to peel. that seems so loving obvious and yet this multi year veteran is loving it up so obviously, the coaches and other players on the team also dont see it somehow? or it used to drive me up the wall how obvious it was that you just needed to camp huni to tilt him when fnatic was running over everyone and people would say "oh yea i bet its super easy and nobody has bothered to try" and lo and behold huni is a tilt machine who can be taken out of games by camping him. I dont think there was any team in S5 Summer other than Origen who was good enough to not lose to the rest of Fnatic if camping Huni.
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Oct 15, 2017 14:12
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Man c9 are the definition of lucker dogs. Got free quarters bye in s3 because of stupid format, s4 they go through thanks to Alliance getting kabuumed, s5 they went out 0-3 after being 3-0 up in first week, s6 they went out with some of the least impressive wins in one of the easiest groups. I think EDG or AHQ would have both been infinitely better than C9 at quarters. Too bad An/Iboy both had major mistakes vs C9. Ulio fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 14:18
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I just don't get how adapting in a 5 game series is such a great skill, while being able to adapt during a draft isn't. Sure, last picking some obscure poo poo isn't something you can react to, but if the enemy team can suprise you that much, maybe scout better or get a better grip on the meta and whats possible? I haven't seen a single TSM game that has been lost by the draft and whats left afterwards in Bo1 is side advantage. Spoiler: TSM hasn't lost a single game due to side advantage either.
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Oct 15, 2017 14:42
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TSM losing was mainly due to DL not being able to play at a high level mid-late game. Nearly all the comebacks(have been many) are thanks to ADC's getting a 3-4 item spike. The thing is DL just gets caught farming sidelane too far or not respecting any cc so he doesn't flash anything. The most important thing in this meta is the adc's performance. Look at Team WE they looked average in week 1 but then week 2 they find a great Caitlyn pick for Mystic and they pop off hard. Ardent + Janna is just busted if your adc isn't braindead. TSM didn't pick Janna but Janna wouldn't have saved DL's terrible positioning/play. Bjergsen got a lot of crap for letting everyone roam on his top and bot. In NA if people focus Hauntzer or DL, Bjerg just gets big but that is hard vs very good midlaners like Xiye/PoE/Maple. If they roam they normally get something out of it. Your not playing against guys like Keane, Huhi or Goldenglue at this stage and thats the type of competition Bjergsen has made his name against.
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Oct 15, 2017 14:53
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Parth's leaving as TSM's head coach. My understanding is that the arrangement was never supposed to be permanent, anyways, so it's not a huge surprise. I guess the big question is who they even bring in now, though.
Vermain fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 15:23
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Teikanmi posted:I stumbled upon Thorin's twitter and it's this weird mix of TSM hate-boner, EU ethno-nationalism, and unnerving Sargon of Akaad-style red pill/the_donald tweets He's always been like that. After watching all these matches, I would ban Janna, Galio, and Sejuani if I didn't have first pick. Those three champions just seem to dominate almost every game that they are in to such a degree that it's disgusting. Still hard to explain EDG's massive sucking in Week 1, because they could clearly play good poo poo in Week 2, it just seems like they didn't figure out the worlds meta until they were already essentially eliminated. I also think it's hilarious that every year some Chinese team has a star player who literally couldn't be possible in the west because of child labor laws. I think the bracket phase is good. I'd rate the winners as 1) Longzhu, 2) Royal, 3) SKT, and 4) World Elite and that's essentially how they got seeded into match ups with each other; however, Longzhu drew by far the hardest lower seed (I'd rate Samsung at 5). I think I'd put Cloud 9 at 6 and the most likely bracket upset because they are really close in skill and performance so far to World Elite against pretty similar competition, I'd call that one a complete toss-up. It wouldn't surprise me to see Fnatic and Misfits get swept in their matches but I hope they both make it interesting and put some fire to Royal and SKT.
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Oct 15, 2017 16:23
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Libertine posted:He's always been like that. You're leaving kalista open though
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Oct 15, 2017 16:25
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Savage Cracker posted:You're leaving kalista open though Would be fine with that given that there's almost nobody playing engage supports.
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Oct 15, 2017 16:32
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njsykora posted:Aphro is past his prime, same as LemonNation. Only CLG are a decent team while Flyquest are a bad team. Even when C9 were dominant in NA Lemon was always weak mechanically. People were suggesting he should move to coach literally since their first split. Libertine posted:After watching all these matches, I would ban Janna, Galio, and Sejuani if I didn't have first pick. Those three champions just seem to dominate almost every game that they are in to such a degree that it's disgusting. Sej had really bad stats week 1, something like 3-9 week 1 and then (edit: iSurrender fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 16:47
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Libertine posted:Would be fine with that given that there's almost nobody playing engage supports.
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Oct 15, 2017 16:53
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Kali's good enough on her own that she can just use her ult to peel for Janna/Lulu/whoever and not be worse for wear. The combination of her lane dominance, objective control, and mid/lategame teamfighting prowess makes her the ADC to pick, and it's no surprise she's hit 100% banrate already.
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Oct 15, 2017 17:00
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Moving into Bo5 I wouldn't be surprised to see some teams experiment with the Kalista ban. It seems like it would be easy to bait blue side into first picking it and then draft a massive tank wall into it with an adc that lanes well into her like Trist or Cait
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Oct 15, 2017 17:20
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goddamn it c9 got out of groups what is this 
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Oct 15, 2017 18:25
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Vermain posted:Parth's leaving as TSM's head coach. My understanding is that the arrangement was never supposed to be permanent, anyways, so it's not a huge surprise. I guess the big question is who they even bring in now, though. I've coached real sports before let me do it Regi at worst I'll give you the literal same exact results
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Oct 15, 2017 18:55
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also if jacob wolf is to be believed and riot has kicked dignitas out of LCS I will be a touch grumpy
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Oct 15, 2017 19:16
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Schnorkles posted:goddamn it c9 got out of groups what is this It’s called “C9 consistantly gets out of groups”  Also lol at Alliance getting Kaboomed. Turns out only being able to play 60 minute games was not a good strategy that year either.
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Oct 15, 2017 20:14
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Jayisspecial posted:It’s called “C9 consistantly gets out of groups” yeah that wasn’t alliance’s problem
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Oct 15, 2017 20:21
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Lovechop posted:yeah that wasn’t alliance’s problem i distinctly remember them trying to BM kabum and getting lit up for it
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Oct 15, 2017 20:27
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Anyone mind catching me up on the current meta? I haven't kept up with this season and I got no idea what's going on. What's up that teams can come back from 10k deficits?
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Oct 15, 2017 20:40
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Luegene Cards posted:Anyone mind catching me up on the current meta? I haven't kept up with this season and I got no idea what's going on. What's up that teams can come back from 10k deficits? This was mainly SKT winning a big team fight (Faker’s multi man shock waves) and then immediately hitting baron up afterwards. The giant team fight combined with a baron power play that takes four to five standing turrets on the map can even things up pretty quickly. If you’re going to get aced by SKT, don’t do it while baron is up. Also, i concede my earlier remark about Alliance was in error. They also had Wickd as their top laner. If you couldn’t foresee them getting trashed at Worlds then you had blinders on.
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Oct 15, 2017 20:45
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Jerkface posted:TSM definitely tended to "warm up" in series. The past like 4-5 seasons vs teams they should smash the games would be closest in game 1 and then they'd roll. They always seemed good at figuring out the "in series" meta, which is why its baffling they can't figure out the group stage meta or they do figure it out but they make the worst possible choice within that meta (aka selecting jayce/ryze). Also in a 5 game series you can do stuff like plan your side choice and draft strategy per game. In groups you are hard locked into 1 blue side, 1 red side, and your games vs the same opponent are like a week apart. TSM doesn't really "warm up", they just tend to have a really bad read on things going into any matchup but they're not 100% retarded so when they get proven wrong in the first game they react appropriately. Whatever their coaching/analysis staff is doing it isn't working for them.
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Oct 15, 2017 20:47
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Luegene Cards posted:Anyone mind catching me up on the current meta? I haven't kept up with this season and I got no idea what's going on. What's up that teams can come back from 10k deficits? EDG's comp was ridiculously squishy and was almost 100% reliant on Janna being busted enough to thwart any attempted engage. SKT's comp was extremely good at teamfighting and they were able to layer their CC in such a way that Janna couldn't act before dying. You can see a more in-depth analysis of the play and what went into it here.
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Oct 15, 2017 20:58
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Okay, that makes a lot more sense. I'd still be interested in hearing the general function of the meta right now. It seems like there's a lot more variety than previous seasons
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Oct 15, 2017 21:35
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Luegene Cards posted:Okay, that makes a lot more sense. I'd still be interested in hearing the general function of the meta right now. It seems like there's a lot more variety than previous seasons If you ignore jungle being Jarvan/Sej/Gragas and bot being Hypercarry + I better loving hope you can use ardent
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Oct 15, 2017 21:42
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Wuxi posted:If you ignore jungle being Jarvan/Sej/Gragas and bot being Hypercarry + I better loving hope you can use ardent Ez jungle has also been pretty high priority and a few teams have been favoring carry junglers (or building J4 as damage out of the jungle) and less tanky tops. I don't know if there's more variety or not but there are some teams that are playing more for the early game instead of going all in on the tanks + ardent censer buffed hypercarry adc mid/late game. Bot lane meta seems pretty set though just because ardent censer spikes so early.
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Oct 15, 2017 21:56
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I'd say it's about as diverse as most previous seasons. There's certain core assumptions about the draft that develop (e.g. Karma/Zyra in botlane back in 2016), but there's enough flexibility in terms of the strengths of each potential meta draft that things remain fresh, even if you can reduce the general draft to 2-3 tanks, midlaner with good waveclear, ADC, and Ardent support. A game with Varus will play out much differently than a game with Tristana, for example. Pretty much my only gripe is that teams are willing to play into Janna/Lulu instead of just banning both of them, because they're both braindead easy and boring as poo poo to watch. Taric, Nami, and Rakan all require considerably more finesse to play well.
Vermain fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 22:09
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this is my favorite thing https://clips.twitch.tv/BombasticEndearingPidgeonLitty
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Oct 16, 2017 01:04
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LS blaming Reddit for TSM's head coach losing his job is the best mental gymnastics
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Oct 16, 2017 06:21
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LS and Thorin make a lot of content by picking piecemeal arguments from hundreds of random people and arguing against a nebulous "reddit" sure is super dumb if you stop and think about it for some reason. yes, the worst ideas from hundreds of random people collectively makes one extremely dumb theoretical person. wowzers.
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Oct 16, 2017 07:07
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https://clips.twitch.tv/CarefulMoistThymeDansGame Can't wait for ls to call me on discord again, this time I'll be ready
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Oct 16, 2017 09:20
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I don't get why reddit is the supposed source of criticism when it's appearing pretty much everywhere(like in this thread). And reddit is pretty tame compared to some of the stuff on facebook. I assume Twitter gets nasty as well judging from the highlights that get posted. Personally I always wonder how a lot of these teams actually work. For example does Sven have complete control on what he does or are other people on the team telling him what to do? Does the coach listen to the players thoughts or just draft what he thinks.
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Oct 16, 2017 10:56
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CODChimera posted:I don't get why reddit is the supposed source of criticism when it's appearing pretty much everywhere(like in this thread). And reddit is pretty tame compared to some of the stuff on facebook. I assume Twitter gets nasty as well judging from the highlights that get posted. Parth was on an episode of The Dive earlier in the season where he talked in some depth about what coaches actually do, that's worth a listen if you're interested. I think most coaches though have a plan for the draft figured out with the players before they go on stage. I'd assume a dude with Sven's experience probably has some influence over what he plays which makes him constantly playing poo poo he can't play even more puzzling.
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Oct 16, 2017 13:46
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njsykora posted:Parth was on an episode of The Dive earlier in the season where he talked in some depth about what coaches actually do, that's worth a listen if you're interested. I think most coaches though have a plan for the draft figured out with the players before they go on stage. I'd assume a dude with Sven's experience probably has some influence over what he plays which makes him constantly playing poo poo he can't play even more puzzling. Even if he didn't, like, surely part of being a coach is recognizing what your players do and don't do well on, right? Like he has to have discussed PB with Sven at some point. It's the same reason I (not here) give KKoma poo poo for stuff like that EDG game- as a coach, how do you not recognise that your star player cannot play Ori into Lucian? Like how does your pickban ignore one of Faker's biggest visible weaknesses? Obviously it's partially Faker's fault for having that weakness but I don't understand why you'd ignore it.
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Oct 16, 2017 13:55
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njsykora posted:Parth was on an episode of The Dive earlier in the season where he talked in some depth about what coaches actually do, that's worth a listen if you're interested. I think most coaches though have a plan for the draft figured out with the players before they go on stage. I'd assume a dude with Sven's experience probably has some influence over what he plays which makes him constantly playing poo poo he can't play even more puzzling. Yeah thanks I'll give that a look. I think one of the best examples of what I'm wondering was an SKT game where they were losing towers fast and Blank goes for an invade on the enemy blue that's far too deep and the lanes desperately need help. He ends up getting the blue but dying on the way out. Who's calling the play that stealing the blue buff is the right choice in that situation? And back to Sven, why is he constantly not influencing the map in the right areas? I'm sure he used to be aggressive and do things. Maybe that's just what happens to junglers when they fall off, instead of flashing into the enemy team like an adc or feeding all game like a top laner, they forget to impact the game.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:18
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Taciturn Tactician posted:Even if he didn't, like, surely part of being a coach is recognizing what your players do and don't do well on, right? Like he has to have discussed PB with Sven at some point. It's the same reason I (not here) give KKoma poo poo for stuff like that EDG game- as a coach, how do you not recognise that your star player cannot play Ori into Lucian? Like how does your pickban ignore one of Faker's biggest visible weaknesses? Obviously it's partially Faker's fault for having that weakness but I don't understand why you'd ignore it. Yeah, the Coach's job doesn't stop at pick ban. He's supposed to make sure that his players go into the game with a comp they know how to play, matchups they can play and heroes they can play. If any of that isn't true the coach needs to change something.
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Oct 16, 2017 16:46
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CODChimera posted:And back to Sven, why is he constantly not influencing the map in the right areas? TSM's overall style domestically and internationally has been what I'll call the Apdo Style: focusing on minimizing mistakes and maximizing gains. They rarely make risky plays and instead rely on their teamfighting prowess and farm advantage to win when the enemy team makes a critical mistake. Consequently, Sven, instead of going HAM and invading or doing high risk/high reward plays, farms out his jungle and waits for midgame to use his ult in a teamfight. This lets you win against worse teams that don't know how to teamfight or who unwittingly make low percentage plays, but it makes you look like fools against competent, aggressive teams that are willing to take big risks for a large payout. At this point, I'm genuinely not sure if it's Sven or Parth who's to blame for all this. Either way, I think they need a new jungler who has the balls to aggressively shotcall and has enough respect to be followed unconditionally. Right now, I believe Bjerg is doing the primary shotcalling, and he's too much like Apdo to make it work on the international stage: he plays too passive and safe and doesn't seem to be able to corral his team effectively at all. They need a Maxlore who's willing to do Body Slam -> Flash engages without hesitation, knowing his team's following his directions and will back him up on it.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:05
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Vermain posted:They need a Maxlore
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Oct 16, 2017 17:09
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Lovechop posted:don't you motherfuckers dare Oh they probably will. NA hasn't learned that it doesn't matter how many Korean or European talents you sign or how many millions you pour into teams when it comes to advancing from groups. What you need are butthole memes.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:17
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hey it turns out Splyce's mystery coach that almost knocked out G2 in playoffs was Krepo all along
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Oct 16, 2017 17:25
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RealFoxy posted:hey it turns out Splyce's mystery coach that almost knocked out G2 in playoffs was Krepo all along With Parth maybe stepping down and TSM failing to get first blood in any of their games Krepo sounds like the perfect coach for them
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Oct 16, 2017 18:12
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