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Excellent, thanks guys! I spent about two hours watching Jody last night. Really great stuff how he lays it out.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:47
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Yooper posted:We bought a TIG welder today! In addition to the rest of that advice, I leave this on my phone. It's nice to have around: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.millerwelds.weldsettingscalc&hl=en
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Oct 13, 2017 03:07
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I have a stupid question for you guys. I asked in the gws cast iron thread but I have a feeling I'll get a better answer here. I bought an old Griswold cast iron pan that had the handle repaired. I'm gonna burn all of the seasoning off this weekend, because it was very badly seasoned and because it smells like a cigarette factory. My question is, do I have anything to worry about with the handle repair? I have no idea if it was welded or brazed and I'm just trying to find out if either one would make it unsafe to cook in. Edit: it looks a lot like a lovely booger weld that they ground down on the outside and assumed that seasoning would cover on the inside, but I am the world's farthest thing from an expert on this subject
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Oct 13, 2017 03:36
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Nah weld is metal. You'd as much melt the pan than gently caress anything else. Burn that seasoning off.
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Oct 13, 2017 03:44
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I figured as much, but it seemed foolish not to double check. Thanks!
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Oct 13, 2017 03:54
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I think some grit must have been on one of my collet holders when I inserted it into my MT3 spindle and tightened it, because there's a scratch on my MT3 collet holder. Today I spun the tool in the spindle and the tool now has a scratch all the way around the circumference. How should I go about repairing the scratch in the spindle? And is there any way to repair my tool holders, at least so the scratch isn't a burr? The mill is a Rong Fu 45 mill/drill clone. I can feel the scratch when I stick my finger into the spindle. Collet holder: 
Mudfly fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 11:38
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Put it on a lathe and boop it with a rag dipped in polishing compound? I'm assuming it's a tapered spindle whatsit so you can't just mount it in whatever it's meant to go in sticking out far enough to get at the mark. The inside part, same idea, but this time don't use a rag wrapped around your fingertip.  Maybe use a Q-tip/bit of sponge glued to the end of a chopstick with the jeweler's rouge on it? (Probably best OSHA-wise to use the same tool on the external one, tbh.)Edit: As good a place to post it as any, I suppose. Picked up my package from Uncle Bumblefuck today when I got home from being out of town all week: 
Chillbro Baggins fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 12:45
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Scouring pads and stones are your friend.
Volkerball fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Oct 13, 2017 |
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Oct 13, 2017 13:25
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Hello. I'd like to confirm I've understood the OP contents wrt welding. I'm intending to pick up a MIG welder to help with prototyping a kitchen layout by knocking together temporary counters; welding some simple (1"?) box tube and attaching some wood tops, and reconfiguring until I'm happy with it. I'm not intending to weld onto sheet yet, let alone thin sheet. Because these don't have to be fancy a MIG seemed like the right option since it's cheap and quick and easy (I'm a total novice). Some questions though: 1. The OP-ish posts mention that flux-core welding leaves behind slag. Does that make for ugly welds? This doesn't matter for the temporary counters but I might want to use the unit to make more permanent stuff later and would like to be able to make decent looking welds. 2. The cheap units I'm looking at seem to come equipped for flux-core only with optional parts to use gas. Units like this one. Is this a vaguely reasonable purchase? Am I right that picking up the gas regulator etc will result in welds that don't leave behind slag? Will that make for neater welds or do I need to step up to TIG for that? 3. How do you break welds cleanly if you want to take things apart again? 4. Can you tidy them up with grinding or similar?
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Oct 15, 2017 17:44
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Jaded Burnout posted:Hello. I'd like to confirm I've understood the OP contents wrt welding. 1. Yes, and it produces a ton of smoke. Not ideal in a kitchen / inside your house. Gas shielding would be better. Either way also produces a lot of sparks. Bad for floors too, bad over wood, etc. Meant for garage / workshop use. 2-4. A grinder and paint makes me the welder I ain't. Google search mig welds and Tig welds for an idea of how they look. You can clean them up, cut them etc. If you're just doing mockup why not use wood? Will the finished product be metal? Does it have to support a ton of weight while mocked up or something? Wood is cheaper, faster and easier to cut, and simple to join.
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Oct 15, 2017 19:39
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honda whisperer posted:If you're just doing mockup why not use wood? Will the finished product be metal? Does it have to support a ton of weight while mocked up or something? Wood is cheaper, faster and easier to cut, and simple to join. Wood is heavier, less straight, requires more neatening up for handling if bought cheap, not much cheaper (2x4 wood @£2/m, 1x1 steel @£2.50/m), and how is it easier to cut? Same chop saw, different blade. I've built simple furniture out of this sort of wood and maybe you're better at it than me but I didn't find it a breeze to work with, it took effort to get things square and splinter-free and my understanding is that basic welding isn't exactly difficult if you're working in a coarse fashion. So it would be a great help if we could stick to discussion of welding and not stray onto woodworking.
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Oct 15, 2017 20:29
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Your amateurish attempts at welding are going to be just as difficult and look just as sketchy as your amateurish attempts at woodworking, except the materials will be a lot more expensive and it's a lot harder to fix mistakes and it's smoky and dirty and it sets things on fire. I don't know why you're making assumptions like "same saw, different blade" or that welding "isn't exactly difficult" when you have said outright that you are a total novice, who doesn't even know that welding involves grinding. Every cut you make in steel requires the same setup and care as it does to make a proper cut in wood, except it takes several times more energy to do it. If you have trouble cutting a 2x4 on a straight line, you will not have a better result in metal. Jaded Burnout posted:Some questions though: 1. Flux-core is smoky and sputtery and leaves welds with slag, yes. They're not particularly pretty welds but if you were going to clean them well and paint over them they'd probably be fine. 2. MIG welds (using inert gas) are cleaner, yes. The shape of the weld still won't be as pretty as a skillfully-executed TIG weld. A MIG still often throws sparks that can set things on fire. Also, if you're using welding gas indoors, you can asphyxiate. 3. A good weld doesn't break. You grind/saw through it, or you cut out the welded section with a torch and replace it. If you want to make a temporary weld, you can learn to make a tack-weld that you can grind off or snap with a chisel. You can't make a safe "temporary counter" out of tack-welds. 4. Yes. When you're learning the process you will spend several times as long grinding as you do welding Jaded Burnout posted:So it would be a great help if we could stick to discussion of welding and not stray onto woodworking. If you're intending to trial-and-error your way into a kitchen countertop, by cutting and tacking and seeing what fits instead of planning the thing out, it makes far more sense to prototype in wood. It's cheaper, easier to cut, easier to assemble, easier to disassemble -- just better in every way for that part of the process. Or, you know, do whatever you want. Remember the saying: measure once, weld immediately Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 03:40
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A metal cutting chop saw works at a lower RPM than a woodcutting one, so you can't put a metal cutting blade on a wood cutting chop saw. Maybe you can go metal cutting -> wood cutting, but they are different machines really, for different purposes.
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Oct 16, 2017 06:46
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Sagebrush posted:Your amateurish attempts at welding are going to be just as difficult and look just as sketchy as your amateurish attempts at woodworking, except the materials will be a lot more expensive and it's a lot harder to fix mistakes and it's smoky and dirty and it sets things on fire. OK let's try and settle this. I didn't have trouble cutting wood, but squaring up is more difficult because it's larger, heavier, and pulls as you screw into it, plus cheap lengths like that tend not to be super straight. Correct me if I'm wrong but box metal is presumably properly straight and level from the factory, fairly easy to clamp, and the fixing process doesn't move things around. In that case it's faster and easier to put together something properly square in box than it is in wood. I'm basing "not exactly difficult" on various things I've seen about MIG welding, including the OP in this thread which refers to it as the "glue gun of welding". I've seen that phrase used a lot and, would you know, lead me to believe it's about as difficult to do as using a glue gun, i.e. it'll look lovely but it'll do the job. As for the chop saw business, just because I've never welded doesn't mean I've never cut anything. Here's one of several chop saws that will cut wood and metal (and stone) depending on the setting and the blade. "a lot harder to fix mistakes and it's smoky and dirty and it sets things on fire" is something that's useful to know, I mean I know it generates sparks but the amount of smoke mentioned so far was news to me, so thanks for that. As for the price of materials, maybe you're buying your box metal or I'm buying my wood from the wrong place because as I mentioned they're pricing up kinda close per metre. Sagebrush posted:1. Flux-core is smoky and sputtery and leaves welds with slag, yes. They're not particularly pretty welds but if you were going to clean them well and paint over them they'd probably be fine. Thank you. #3 is the most critical part here. If safe welds take forever to cut through then yes it could be a problem. Sagebrush posted:If you're intending to trial-and-error your way into a kitchen countertop, by cutting and tacking and seeing what fits instead of planning the thing out, it makes far more sense to prototype in wood. It's cheaper, easier to cut, easier to assemble, easier to disassemble -- just better in every way for that part of the process. Ah, you've misunderstood what I'm going for. It's not that I know what kitchen I want and I'm doing this to get the measurements right, I'm comfortable with a tape measure. No the intent is to try out different configurations of counter, sink etc in different kitchen shapes and see how they perform in the real world, and informing a real design later. Planning only gets you so far. His Divine Shadow posted:A metal cutting chop saw works at a lower RPM than a woodcutting one, so you can't put a metal cutting blade on a wood cutting chop saw. Maybe you can go metal cutting -> wood cutting, but they are different machines really, for different purposes. I know this has traditionally been true, but see above. Edit: I am here for help, I am here for advice, I will listen to it, but y'all got that response from me because my username is not a joke, I am jaded, I am very burned out, and asking a question on SA always requires fighting through a gauntlet of assumptions about things I didn't say. It exhausts me and drains any spirit I had to attempt the thing I was going for in the first place. So I'm sorry if I snapped at you, but maybe y'all could've assumed I'd thought about doing it in wood and had reasons not to. I'm thankful to Sagebrush for answering my questions, I'm not thankful for the lovely padding the answers were buried in, even if that padding was well-meaning. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 07:35
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Jaded Burnout posted:OK let's try and settle this. I didn't have trouble cutting wood, but squaring up is more difficult because it's larger, heavier, and pulls as you screw into it, plus cheap lengths like that tend not to be super straight. Correct me if I'm wrong but box metal is presumably properly straight and level from the factory, fairly easy to clamp, and the fixing process doesn't move things around. In that case it's faster and easier to put together something properly square in box than it is in wood. Don't weld in the kitchen, solderings fine though. Welding will absolutely cause your structure to move around, the steel contracts in the area of the weld. It is also significantly more difficult and expensive an exercise than nailing or screwing or screwing some wood together "temporarily" to see if you like you're kitchen layout (not to mention the smoke etc, that's been covered). If you want really want ease of construction and low cost for testing various kitchen layouts then I'd suggest going to your handy local building site and flogging some concrete blocks and a couple of planks. The learning curve isn't particularly steep to make a bench that's mostly square, with reasonably nice joints (after a bit of grinding). It's a whole lot steeper than you seem to expect though, and making a builders grade kitchen let alone a decent one may well have a bit more involved. I'm interested to know what you plan to do about plumbing the sink in your temporary kitchen by the way?
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Oct 16, 2017 09:57
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bend posted:Don't weld in the kitchen, solderings fine though. Thanks, I appreciate the wave-off. Based on this and a few bits of what other people have said it sounds like it's not going to save me any effort. Though I should clarify the intent was never to make the kitchen out of steel beyond the prototype stage, but maybe something like desks / kitchen table / some workshop shelves later on. bend posted:I'm interested to know what you plan to do about plumbing the sink in your temporary kitchen by the way? I took a work triangle best guess as to likely locations for e.g. sink & oven, and had appropriate wiring / push-fit pipework stubs placed there. There's significant latitude as to where the sink can go based on the waste pipe since you don't need a huge drop for greywater, but it's unlikely to be on the opposite side of the kitchen from the plumbing. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 10:14
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Maybe look into steel studs? You can cut them with a fiber blade on a chop saw or even tin snips. They can be put together with screws and taken apart again. If you frame up sections like a short wall to put the counter tops on and anchor it to the wall it should be plenty strong.
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Oct 16, 2017 12:22
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Anyone know if there were low power cnc machines made? Like, around 2kw-3kw so I could restore something from the 80s/90s and work on it at home? I'd love to get one one day but all the ones I see on the market are very, very powerful and wouldn't run off our home power (240v, 10-15amps) even with an appropriate 3 phase converter.
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Oct 16, 2017 13:13
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Mudfly posted:Anyone know if there were low power cnc machines made? Like, around 2kw-3kw so I could restore something from the 80s/90s and work on it at home? I'm currently on this quest as well.
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Oct 16, 2017 13:17
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Jaded Burnout posted:Thanks, I appreciate the wave-off. Based on this and a few bits of what other people have said it sounds like it's not going to save me any effort. Though I should clarify the intent was never to make the kitchen out of steel beyond the prototype stage, but maybe something like desks / kitchen table / some workshop shelves later on. Woodworking snobs look down on Kreg style pocket screw jigs but I've made a shitload of furniture stuff fairly cheaply with it. They lock tight, disassemble easily, and are cheap. Sure it's not mortise-tenon-dovetail woodporn, but how many people give two fucks if the joint took you 5 minutes (pocket screw) or 5 hours (crazy dovetail). I scabbed together a straight workbench in less than an hour. Finding decent dimensional lumber is tough, but can be done.
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Oct 16, 2017 13:56
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Mudfly posted:Anyone know if there were low power cnc machines made? Like, around 2kw-3kw so I could restore something from the 80s/90s and work on it at home? The general category is called "benchtop" CNC machines, a lot of the time they were used in schools and stuff. Will have a small work envelope and not be especially rigid, but yeah, mostly run on 120V. "Benchtop CNC" turns up stuff about the right scale on ebay. Companies by the name of Taig and Littlemachineshop sell them too.
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Oct 16, 2017 14:27
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I think I should add something to the op about not welding inside your loving house and getting smoke and metal vapor everywhere in your living space.
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Oct 16, 2017 15:58
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It's more of a building site than a house right now but yes that sounds like a good idea.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:12
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Also I think when we talk about mig/tig as "glue gun of metal" it's intended to convey the physical operation of welding - you have a gun with a trigger you pull and the metal is fed through the gun - rather than suggest that no skill or knowledge is required. In other forms of welding, you have a consumable stick gripped in a clamp that you need to manipulate (stick welding) or you need to feed a wire of metal into the weld with your other hand (oxy-fuel welding), so those techniques require more manual dexterity, maybe? I'll just add that dimensional lumber from giant warehouse style hardware stores (home depot, etc.) is typically not very straight because it's "grade 2" lumber. You can get better grade lumber that is straight, but you might have to go to a proper lumberyard for it. And, steel may be dimensionally accurate, but it will still sag, twist, or bend over a span, so you may have to add crossbars and reinforcements to get a countertop made from steel box section to actually be flat and true. And it is definitely heavier than the softwood (pine) dimensional lumber you'd be using, unless you're way overbuilding your wood frames/underbuilding the metal frames. And in terms of cost, you need to consider the equipment cost. All that said, if you were hoping to learn to weld, and this was just a project to use as an excuse to learn to weld, then by all means, get a welder and learn to weld! Build a steel box and put a wood countertop on it and use it in your garage as a workbench or something. You'll learn from the process. You will have to prep every edge you're going to weld; you'll need to grind, secure, tack, weld, cleanup grind, fix any bad welds, and then move to the next weld. In addition to the welder, you'll need wire, gloves, hood, a welding hammer, wire brushes, an angle grinder with sanding and grinding wheels, that chop saw you mentioned will be good, but also a metal-cutting band saw would be very handy, or at very least a hand hacksaw, plus various small accessories and consumables depending on what you're doing. Magnets, clamps, marking tools, etc. It's a different workshop of tools to woodworking, and if you've already got the woodworking tools, then you should definitely count the expense of the metal workshop stuff when deciding what to do moving forward. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 17:56
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Slung Blade posted:I think I should add something to the op about not welding inside your loving house and getting smoke and metal vapor everywhere in your living space. I bought a condo 2 months ago and am using one of the spare bedrooms as a workshop....no welding yet, but lathe, mill, electro-etching are already going on.
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Oct 16, 2017 17:57
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Brekelefuw posted:I bought a condo 2 months ago and am using one of the spare bedrooms as a workshop....no welding yet, but lathe, mill, electro-etching are already going on. Don't weld in your house bro. Or at least get a drat hood fan or fume extractor.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:07
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Leperflesh posted:All that said, if you were hoping to learn to weld, and this was just a project to use as an excuse to learn to weld, then by all means, get a welder and learn to weld! Build a steel box and put a wood countertop on it and use it in your garage as a workbench or something. You'll learn from the process. Yeah, I'm not going to throw away the idea of welding useful things, but if as mentioned there's as much or more effort in making even temporary furniture then I may as well do it in wood and not pay the equipment cost. I'll likely leave it for later on when I'm at the point of putting together other permanent projects where time would be spent making good looking welds. But even then it might wind up easier (and/or cheaper) to take the wood route since we're into TIG territory. I know Slung Blade is talking to someone else about the welding inside thing now, but don't worry I never intended to weld in a small unventilated area. I don't even sand in a small unventilated area. But that said, my main concern as a novice was sparks not smoke, so I still think that's worth emphasising in the OP.
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Oct 16, 2017 18:36
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Brekelefuw posted:I bought a condo 2 months ago and am using one of the spare bedrooms as a workshop....no welding yet, but lathe, mill, electro-etching are already going on. I'm renting a room in a 3-bedroom but negotiated for half the living room that's currently filled with shop poo poo. i'm sure the roomies are extremely appreciative (no machine tools thankfully but if I ever get around to building a soundproofed enclosure for my Taig mill, well, sorry guys) Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 19:52
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mekilljoydammit posted:The general category is called "benchtop" CNC machines, a lot of the time they were used in schools and stuff. Will have a small work envelope and not be especially rigid, but yeah, mostly run on 120V. "Benchtop CNC" turns up stuff about the right scale on ebay. Companies by the name of Taig and Littlemachineshop sell them too. I was hoping more for "very large" but not "car size". Around 2 tonnes, but not over. Not really after a bench top machine, just a proper industrial mazak or something but a smaller model (if they exist).
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Oct 16, 2017 23:16
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Like a Haas? Idk much about powering the machines.
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Oct 16, 2017 23:25
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Mudfly posted:I was hoping more for "very large" but not "car size". Around 2 tonnes, but not over. You're going to have a hard time with that. Tormachs kind of fit that, but even there they recommend a 20 amp breaker on 230V. Maybe a converted knee mill.
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Oct 16, 2017 23:40
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Jaded Burnout posted:Yeah, I'm not going to throw away the idea of welding useful things, but if as mentioned there's as much or more effort in making even temporary furniture then I may as well do it in wood and not pay the equipment cost. I'll likely leave it for later on when I'm at the point of putting together other permanent projects where time would be spent making good looking welds. But even then it might wind up easier (and/or cheaper) to take the wood route since we're into TIG territory. If you want to slap stuff together sturdily but temporarily, look into unistrut with bolts and stuff. You can cut your strut to about the right length, then use the levelling feet to get the heights. Strut is more expensive than wood, but a few sticks of that, a few hacksaw blades, a bag of nuts/washers and a couple sticks of allthread can get you some very decently sturdy stuff.
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Oct 17, 2017 01:10
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mekilljoydammit posted:You're going to have a hard time with that. Tormachs kind of fit that, but even there they recommend a 20 amp breaker on 230V. Maybe a converted knee mill. A standard 110/15A socket can only provide 1650 watts of power. That's really not much when you're talking about hauling around three heavy steel axes and simultaneously spinning a large powerful spindle drive motor. I think the idea of finding a multi-ton mill that plugs into a wall socket is kinda insane.
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Oct 17, 2017 01:27
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Mudfly posted:I was hoping more for "very large" but not "car size". Around 2 tonnes, but not over. What about one of those older BOSS 2/3 Bridgeports? I'm certain I've seen those in home shop pictures. Pimblor fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 01:39
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:If you want to slap stuff together sturdily but temporarily, look into unistrut with bolts and stuff. You can cut your strut to about the right length, then use the levelling feet to get the heights. Strut is more expensive than wood, but a few sticks of that, a few hacksaw blades, a bag of nuts/washers and a couple sticks of allthread can get you some very decently sturdy stuff. Or, if you happen to bleed cash money dollars, live the dream. http://www.item-northamerica.com
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Oct 17, 2017 01:46
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Pimblor posted:What about one of those older BOSS 2/3 Bridgeports? I'm certain I've seen those in home shop pictures. My home shop has 100 amp 240v. It's not all all uncommon. Add a VFD and you're running regular 3 phase equipment with no modifications. Much like those Bridgeports. If you're looking into the kind of money this costs hiring an electrician to run a subpanel and some appropriate outlets to your work are on the very very low end of the money you'll be spending when you start adding up tooling. So I'd suggest you just run proper power rather than trying to do this in a likely impossible way.
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Oct 17, 2017 16:48
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Motronic posted:My home shop has 100 amp 240v. It's not all all uncommon. Last time I hooked up a VFD to a Bridgeport single-phase there was a pretty significant de-rating. Though I think it's preferable to running one of those rotary converter systems.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:04
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What kind of parts do you wanna run, and what's the nature of the work? If you manage to get a commercial-scale machine that's hobbled to run off of hobby-scale power, you're losing most of the point of buying a larger mill in the first place beyond, like, generous travel and rigidity i guess i don't recall your experience level here but if you haven't given "hobby" machines a look it isn't a bad idea if the parts you want to run regularly aren't huge and you're not doing actual production; I got a Taig specifically because i turned up lots of endorsements from actual business owners and working machinists who spoke highly of em for being capable of doing real work to a reasonably high standard, albeit within modest parameters. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 21:34
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I've found that for stitching together things in a temporary / layout way, the computer program "SketchUp" is useful. https://www.sketchup.com/ It does both imperial and metric, and it has an "undo" button so you don't even have to measure twice cut once. You can just cut. If it's wrong you can try again until you get it right. For example, I recently needed an 8" cube. The geometry of the corners took some trial-and-error to get right, but I didn't end up with a pile of scrap after - I made all my mistakes on the computer. I actually plan to make a 9" or possibly even a 10" cube at a later date. I won't have to redesign from scratch because I'll have my original files. Software is neat!    
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Oct 17, 2017 22:18
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1) thats wood not metal you charlatan!! 2) Sketchup's main selling points are that it's free and has the most forgiving/accessible learning curve I know of for this sort of thing, but if you wanna design parts, there are much more rigorous and specialized CAD options out there that won't cost you anything that you might want to look into. Fusion360's the obvious pick, it's free for most purposes but has CAD functionality that rivals commercial software that costs hundreds or thousands of dollars. You don't need it yet, but it's got an equally-robust CAM (computer-aided manufacturing) functionality, so if you wanted to design something and get it made by a robot, it's pretty straightforward to turn that 3D model into code for the machine you have access to to read and run.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:21
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