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Snak posted:They specifically mention in the movie that the implanted memories are important to make them stable. I think The baseline tester calling him Constant K and Joshi talking about how she's come to think of K as different imply that he has been around for at least a while.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:23
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I think that still works (though I disagree with it). I mean the baseline test is there to calibrate them regularly and make sure they're on the right path so of course it's going to work like that. And since we're in a world where memory implants are a specialist industry unto itself for all we know he's like 50th K they've gone through in two years or something. But personally I do think Joshi's dialogue with him is meant to be taken at face value and that he's been around a few years. Snak posted:Honestly, I was half-expecting the twist in this movie to be that a bunch of the "new replicants" were actually just people who had had their memories erased and had serial numbers stamped on their genetic tissue. That the blackout allowed for mass erasure of huge swaths of the poor and their conversion into replicants. There's obviously a lot of holes in that theory, it was just something kicking around in my head during the movie. I was actually thinking something along those lines briefly when we run into the child slavery ring, like as they got older they'd get memory/whatever implants to keep them compliant with whatever job they started showing skills for. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 19:24
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Serf posted:The baseline tester calling him Constant K and Joshi talking about how she's come to think of K as different imply that he has been around for at least a while. Yeah seems like an unnecessary level of theorizing to me. e: we know K is younger than the blackout, which was in 2022 I think. But he's also been in previous cases working for Joshi and at least remembers having to retire other replicants, to the level he evinces a certain level of tiredness with the general idea. I mean you can say this is all a ploy by Wallace or whoever, but why would they do that? It doesn't have the barebones reasons found in the original for Deckard being a replicant. A replicant being a few years younger than he supposed isn't hardly a shocking revelation or necessary step or whatever. BTW, I love how loving over the whole idea K was in his first scene, sitting crosslegged in Sapper's kitchen. I thought it was just him trying to seem cool or something, but him being an ultimate killing machine who feels safe despite the man monster that is Batista breathing down on him is a really edifying twist. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 19:24
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Sapper seemed way bigger than Drax. I know Drax doesn't wear much clothing so it's hard to make him bulkier than Bautista is, but I'm guessing the size of the house and the way he was shot also contributed to the effect and not just costuming.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:42
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Shageletic posted:Yeah seems like an unnecessary level of theorizing to me. I mean, yeah, i don't think that it is. But my point is, there is some point in his life where everything before that point is fake. And we have no way of really knowing when that is, and neither does he. Like it's not like he popped out of the replicant factory and went to look for a job. He was purchased by the LAPD to be a blade runner. So it's not likely he had to find his own apartment, that was probably set up for him. All the memories that he has before coming to work for the LAPD as a Blade Runner are implanted. So at some point in his life, he was taking a baseline test at work, and he had actually just been turned on for the first time. I'm not trying to find a hidden twist here, I'm just thinking about the nature of being experienced in your line of work when you were purpose built to do it and a bunch of your memories are implants. Wouldn't it make sense to never have rookie blade runners? Implant them with the memory of doing the job successfully for a few years and have memories of experiences they learned from to give them confidence on their very first actual job? This isn't something that's brought up or even hinted at in the movie, but it's certainly an idea that emerges from the situation presented by the film.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:42
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Lobok posted:Sapper seemed way bigger than Drax. I know Drax doesn't wear much clothing so it's hard to make him bulkier than Bautista is, but I'm guessing the size of the house and the way he was shot also contributed to the effect and not just costuming. When he was shot it took like three whole seconds for all of him to hit the floor. I also like Freysa's implication that Sapper let K kill him. It would make sense, after all. Sapper dies and the mystery never progresses, but they didn't count on K being a good detective.
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Oct 16, 2017 19:49
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Arglebargle III posted:I would engage but man your posting style suggests that you won't ever accept any answer. Huh? It was a genuine question. I don't mean to be hostile, I'm just wondering how you can reconcile wanting the film to be shorter with also wanting to add a scene where (IMO) it's not needed. The short scene where they sit around the fire with the cool transition from fire embers to city lights conveys all that needed to be conveyed. I also found it interesting that that scene was the most natural scenery we get in the whole movie. They're out in the desert, with none of the irradiated lighting from Deckard's Vegas - just rocks, firelight, people sitting around it.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:05
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Serf posted:When he was shot it took like three whole seconds for all of him to hit the floor. I also like Freysa's implication that Sapper let K kill him. It would make sense, after all. Sapper dies and the mystery never progresses, but they didn't count on K being a good detective. Guess they figured if Deckard was a detective that didn't do detective work, it would be the same with K.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:08
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Bardeh posted:Huh? It was a genuine question. I don't mean to be hostile, I'm just wondering how you can reconcile wanting the film to be shorter with also wanting to add a scene where (IMO) it's not needed. The short scene where they sit around the fire with the cool transition from fire embers to city lights conveys all that needed to be conveyed. I also found it interesting that that scene was the most natural scenery we get in the whole movie. They're out in the desert, with none of the irradiated lighting from Deckard's Vegas - just rocks, firelight, people sitting around it. I mean, i don't necessarily agree with that, but I also found it jarring that there are a bunch of extended travelling sequences to go places, and then a single cut to him being back in his apartment for the return.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:17
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Snak posted:I mean, i don't necessarily agree with that, but I also found it jarring that there are a bunch of extended travelling sequences to go places, and then a single cut to him being back in his apartment for the return. Doesn't he wake up in the desert, then we get the scene of them flying back into LA and him waking up again in their sewer safehouse?
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Oct 16, 2017 20:18
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Snak posted:I mean, i don't necessarily agree with that, but I also found it jarring that there are a bunch of extended travelling sequences to go places, and then a single cut to him being back in his apartment for the return. Yeah, you're missing like 10 minutes of the movie. That's not at all what happens.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:23
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Snak posted:I mean, i don't necessarily agree with that, but I also found it jarring that there are a bunch of extended travelling sequences to go places, and then a single cut to him being back in his apartment for the return. They find him unconscious in the casino, then there's a scene with him injured by the fire in the desert, with hookerbot looking over him, then they return to the city and then they're in the sewers with the scene where he talks to one-eye and finds out that he's not The One.
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Oct 16, 2017 20:49
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He's probably talking about going from the San Diego dump and then cut back to the apartment in LA. Great movie, but I was rolling my eyes hard at the repeated flashback dialogue like "You've never seen a miracle" and the Male / Female DNA. crimedog fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Oct 16, 2017 |
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Oct 16, 2017 21:43
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Yeah there's a big mixup which is entirely my fault. I felt like there were 2 times where he went somewhere as a drawn out travel sequence, and then there return was just a cut to being back in LA. And there's nothing particularly wrong with that, it just kind of bugged me when I noticed it. I really need to watch it again. On reflection, I think it's actually thematically relevant to portray travel that way.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:53
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DeimosRising posted:The ability of e.g. white and black people to have children with one another sure as poo poo didn't prevent the erection of ideological barriers between them Didn't help, though. It's argued that a core purpose of anti-miscegenation laws was to keep black slaves and white workers from realizing their common humanity.
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Oct 16, 2017 21:57
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Snak posted:I mean, yeah, i don't think that it is. But my point is, there is some point in his life where everything before that point is fake. And we have no way of really knowing when that is, and neither does he. There's a rather strong implication that he's been around for a fairly long amount of time, especially if he's got implanted REAL memories from someone that was a child. it's very possible he was actually made, or, found and repurposed to throw the case off track. We don't know this for sure either, but that's the interesting thing about his overall vagueness of existence. It's fun to think about all these possibilities.
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Oct 16, 2017 22:56
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Diabetes Forecast posted:There's a rather strong implication that he's been around for a fairly long amount of time, especially if he's got implanted REAL memories from someone that was a child. it's very possible he was actually made, or, found and repurposed to throw the case off track. It is fun to think about. But I'm not sure what having implanted REAL memories from Ana has to do with his age. She has those memories and could have sold them to Wallace at any time.
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Oct 16, 2017 22:59
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Lobok posted:Sapper seemed way bigger than Drax. I know Drax doesn't wear much clothing so it's hard to make him bulkier than Bautista is, but I'm guessing the size of the house and the way he was shot also contributed to the effect and not just costuming. Bautista is a goddamn enormous man at all times, so some of it is shooting and costuming. I'm going to bet there are tons of greenscreen moments in Guardians when he's digitally altered so as not to distract from the action. But a lot of it is also just water weight. Bautista probably "cuts" for his more shirtless roles, whereas he can carry some (perfectly healthy) water weight in his more dramatic turns. It's really hard to find a good 1:1 but here's two random images to try and show what this might look like, spoilers if you don't want to get an erection: Relatively Dehydrated / Cut:  Relatively Hydrated (not a 1:1, just that this is the kind of difference a bodybuilder can do between "normal" and "cut"):  Notice how big his trunk looks especially. When he's not cut his trunk seems like 3x more massive than his cut state. In 2049 and Spectre he tends to look fuller:  So I think it's a combination of shot, costuming, and that doesn't have to "cut" as hard for the role.
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Oct 16, 2017 23:09
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Random observation from the second round: K's dinner the first time we see him in his apartment is released in the same way a replicant is birthed: it's a pile of goop in a plastic sleeve that slides out the bottom. They're both Wallace products, and they're the same thing to him - protein.
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Oct 16, 2017 23:21
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Yeah, I forget what he looked like in motion in Spectre but now that I look at shots of him he does look bigger in that role, too.
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Oct 16, 2017 23:23
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Snak posted:Eh. It covers this in the opening text. All the old replicants that are left are from a batch of open-ended Nexus 8 prototypes. In the first movie, it's initially implied that Rachel is the first of these, but then if Deckard is a replicant, it's also implied that a lot of what we're told about the use and status of replicants is false. So I don't think it's a stretch to guess that Tyrell was producing other replicants with no lifespan illegally. I'm glad this movie goes on to be different. Personally I’d rule out something as mean minded as memory wiping and reselling, it just doesn’t fit Tyrell’s modus operandi which is subversive and contemptuous of lawful authority and dedicated to expanding the art of the possible in genetics. In BR, Society’s answer to the rebellious emotional instability of its slaves was to give replicants a 4 year lifespan and ban them from being on Earth, Tyrell’s answer was to look to give the replicants a set of memories to hang those emotions on and give them the capacity to have children. Tyrell by implication and observation was producing illegally long lived replicants, replicants that could breed, replicants with human memories in at least one and possibly more cases, secreting Replicants on Earth and, as discussed with Batty, he spent quite a lot of time and effort trying to remove the 4 year lifespan cap that was legally imposed on the production of his Nexus 6 replicants. He also seemed uninterested in maintaining control of the beings he created, fascinated by how long it took for Deckard to discover Rachel was a replicant, revelling in Roy Batty and his crew’s adventures and, something I find interesting, did not surround himself with combat models dedicated to his personal protection (something that would have been entirely trivial for a man of his apparent resources) even when he knew that someone as incredibly dangerous as Roy Batty was looking to pay him a visit. To me Tyrell is more a lonely would be trickster god, alone in his huge pyramid, with a Musk like ego pushing forward a plan he is convinced is necessary, contemptuous of those seeking to constrain his capabilities, confident in his intellect and powers of reason, and fatally over confident, despite their clear emotional instability, that his creations can be reasoned with. After watching 2049, I suspect his intentions might have been for humanity to accept his implanted memory aided replicants as unthreatening and then shockingly discover some time later that they could have children together when little half human/replicants started popping out of wombs everywhere. Regarding the after effects, the movie’s been doing that to me for over a week now, I’m trying desperately to get the time to go see it again at least once more before hunkering down to wait for the home release.
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Oct 17, 2017 00:02
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After spending a couple days thinking about the movie I wanted to ask about the villains fortress or whatever you wanna call it. I get the water of life motif and the fact that he sells bots and similar tech to folks but like... does he spend literally all day in a dimly lit room staring at a wall? Every single room in that building that I can recall was just water and nothing else. He's never shown in a room with any technology in it and it just comes off as bizarre for a different reason than probably intended. Like drat dude did he build the place just so he could emerge from the shadows in dramatic fashion?
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Oct 17, 2017 00:12
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:After spending a couple days thinking about the movie I wanted to ask about the villains fortress or whatever you wanna call it. he's blind and has wearable tech which is probably what he spends most of his time looking at So I really liked this movie. The only nitpick is the flashback dialogue at the ending reveal. Did anyone else catch Robin Wright's line "am I the only one seeing the sunrise here?" I thought that was really cool, considering the world in which they live clearly either very rarely, or never, gets any sunshine.
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Oct 17, 2017 00:21
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:After spending a couple days thinking about the movie I wanted to ask about the villains fortress or whatever you wanna call it. Well he did at least spend part of one day stabbing a newly awoken replicant to death for reasons, maybe he throws a little of that in from time to time to liven things up. Anyway, I think the records hall was a part of the building, we’re just seeing his private ‘day/night dramatic shadows’ rooms in the Wallace shots, and as he is blind and augmented he’s probably not staring at the walls, more likely indulging in some vr type environment.
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Oct 17, 2017 00:25
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:After spending a couple days thinking about the movie I wanted to ask about the villains fortress or whatever you wanna call it. He spends all his time leasing out farm equipment he invented 25 years ago and running factories whose design he acquired through a bankruptcy. I think his lazy way of going about his day was intentional. On a second viewing I noticed that the resistance area was loaded with reflected water lighting as well. Not sure what to make of that except that they are mirrored forces and K decides to ignore both.
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Oct 17, 2017 00:30
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crimedog posted:He's probably talking about going from the San Diego dump and then cut back to the apartment in LA. I'm universally opposed to flashbacks of prior scenes in movies. Like, you're showing me something from at most a couple of hours ago. I can remember two hours ago.
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Oct 17, 2017 00:39
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porfiria posted:I'm universally opposed to flashbacks of prior scenes in movies. Like, you're showing me something from at most a couple of hours ago. I can remember two hours ago. Those are for people like some of the goons in CD who are very bad at watching movies and have the brains and bladders of mosquitoes.
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Oct 17, 2017 01:31
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There are people in this topic who couldn't figure out who the child was until the very last scene, or how K got out of Vegas.
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Oct 17, 2017 02:35
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I feel like those flashbacks might have been one of the few studio mandates. Denis is just way too smart to use that type of poo poo deliberately.
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Oct 17, 2017 02:37
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:I feel like those flashbacks might have been one of the few studio mandates. Denis is just way too smart to use that type of poo poo deliberately. Yeah almost certainly. My favorite recent example of this is in Edge of Tomorrow when Tom Cruise has a vision of the alien mothership being under the Louvre with that famous pyramid thing in front of it or whatever and there's an obviously studio mandated voiceover where Tom Cruise is like, "They're at the Louvre!" The funny part being the fact that it's the Louvre is totally irrelevant to the plot so like who cares if somebody in the audience doesn't recognize it?
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Oct 17, 2017 03:30
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porfiria posted:Yeah almost certainly. My favorite recent example of this is in Edge of Tomorrow when Tom Cruise has a vision of the alien mothership being under the Louvre with that famous pyramid thing in front of it or whatever and there's an obviously studio mandated voiceover where Tom Cruise is like, "They're at the Louvre!" The funny part being the fact that it's the Louvre is totally irrelevant to the plot so like who cares if somebody in the audience doesn't recognize it? "We're not filming in motherfuckin' Paris and not letting the audience know! That shoot was expensive!"
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Oct 17, 2017 03:34
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Lobok posted:"We're not filming in motherfuckin' Paris and not letting the audience know! That shoot was expensive!" Guarantee there were some French film credits/tax breaks on that shoot. The first Mimic location was some random dam "in Germany" (or anywhere), and the climax is set in Paris's second most famous landmark. The French Film commission - Film France - offers a 30% rebate on expenditures in France, one of the better deals in Western Europe - but films have to pass a "culture test". Not making this up. Hence, random Louvre out of nowhere. Enjoy your random off-topic fact of the day. Yes I work in the industry. Also I unreservedly love Edge of Tomorrow, just like BR 2049, and don't give a poo poo if they made a boatload of money or not.
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Oct 17, 2017 04:27
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So I guess Deckard isn't a replicant.  Amazing movie though - what a goddamn soundtrack. The city seemed way more dead and desolate than BR1.
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Oct 17, 2017 04:28
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Vintersorg posted:So I guess Deckard isn't a replicant. Still completely ambiguous.
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Oct 17, 2017 04:30
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AdmiralViscen posted:There are people in this topic who couldn't figure out who the child was until the very last scene That was me, lmao
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Oct 17, 2017 04:32
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Vintersorg posted:So I guess Deckard isn't a replicant. The movie goes out of its way to not answer that question either way.
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Oct 17, 2017 04:37
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The flashback clarified it for me. Otherwise, my first though was Luv. I kind of really dig the ending that Even though K wasn't Deckard's daughter, he ended up realizing he lived a way more human life than her. She was trapped in a cell, she wasn't interlinked with her loved ones. The most human thing is to die for a cause, which he did. I really felt like, in the very end, he realized that he was special, simply because of the life he lived. edit: This is probably old news and was probably linked way earlier in the thread, but since I'm just dropping in after seeing the movie, here is a short, entertaining interview where it looks like Gosling and Ford both have fun on This Morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAb8KIhgVAI Snak fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 04:37
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I'm the kind of viewer who just goes with the narrative the film is building, I don't bother trying to "work it out" before hand. Most of the time anyway. I thought K was probably the kid, until he wasn't, and I thought it was told well.
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Oct 17, 2017 05:51
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A Short Script: Sallie Harmsen, a 20ish dancer/actress, gets a call from her agent. SALLIE: Hey, what's going on, do you have something for me? AGENT: Actually, that's just what I was calling about. I've got a big part for you in a huge blockbuster movie, you won't even need to go in to audition. I guess they've been having some trouble finding just the right person. SALLIE: Do you know why? AGENT: Well, from what they've told me, there are a few things that are turning people away. First off, there's nudity. SALLIE: Um... I dunno. Is it tasteful? AGENT: It's not sexual at all, that's for sure. It's a sort of... simulated birth. SALLIE: What? AGENT: Yeah, you're completely naked, and you get squeezed from a plastic bag, kinda like a womb, onto a tarp on the floor. And you're covered in goop. SALLIE: Goop? AGENT: Yeah, like amniotic fluid. So you get squeezed onto the ground and you have to kinda act like you've just been born, even though you're an adult. SALLIE: That doesn't sound like the absolute worst thing in the world. AGENT: And then Jared Leto kinda pokes at you for a while. SALLIE: What? AGENT: Yeah, like, he made you so you stand in front of him and he looks at you and caresses your stomach or something. Then he stabs you. SALLIE: WHAT? AGENT: And then he kisses you. SALLIE: Jesus christ, no wonder they're having trouble finding someone. That sounds awful. And Jared Leto gives me the creeps. Do they at least try to obscure the nudity? AGENT: Doesn't sound like it. They want a full pan from feet to head of you, naked, covered in goop, right before Jared Leto stabs you. SALLIE: and then he kisses me. AGENT: yeah. SALLIE: What are they offering? AGENT: They didn't make a hard offer, but I half-jokingly said a million and I think they didn't rule it out. SALLIE: Seriously? *sigh* We'll go in for a talk. I assume i don't need to dress up for the meeting? AGENT: Nah, probably not. Worst case you'll strip and I'll crack a couple eggs over your head. We'll figure something out. SALLIE: They'd better have a loving dump truck full of money.
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Oct 17, 2017 06:13
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Snak posted:Honestly, I was half-expecting the twist in this movie to be that a bunch of the "new replicants" were actually just people who had had their memories erased and had serial numbers stamped on their genetic tissue. That the blackout allowed for mass erasure of huge swaths of the poor and their conversion into replicants. There's obviously a lot of holes in that theory, it was just something kicking around in my head during the movie. That would have undermined the message of the movie about how humanity isn't determined by how one comes into the world. Anyway I guess that could work as the plot to a completely different movie. Isn't that kind of what "zombie" originally meant? Someone who had been brainwashed/hypnotized and turned into a slave? I mean before the current definition of "reanimated corpse that feasts on the flesh of the living".
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Oct 17, 2017 06:23
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