|
Lol that cities have retail open after seven on a Sunday. You have to drive out to the burbs for that poo poo.
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 02:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 15:39 |
|
|
There are plenty of places where neither USPS or UPS/FedEx will deliver to your door, and the drop-off location or mailbox is over a mile a way, on a road that is not plowed in winter. And good luck getting your 2-day delivery in 2 days. That said, I think when we are beginning to discuss the shopping habits of literal mountain hermits living in their snowbound cabins, we have veered substantially off the topic of retail business trends.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 02:39
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:So you go on Amazon and it shows up in the mail, no matter where you live in the country. Within the last two or three years, yes. I agree that services like Amazon are going to further erode the differences. At a certain point, the difference between urban and rural will perhaps be erased, because everyone will be telecommuting and having things delivered to the door. I also don't know how Amazon Prime works. How much do people pay for things on it? Is it really possible to have an entire day's shopping delivered to your door step anywhere, at no additional cost? I'm not really B, so I don't have much practice with it, I've only ever really used it for ordering drugs, when I was in the US. Why do I keep on hammering on this point, to the annoyance of some? Someone originally said "Walmarts in the middle of nowhere", and I pointed out that was kind of an oxymoronic thing to reference: Walmart doesn't operate in the middle of nowhere. Its a little like this famous picture:  Look at all those destitute, lower middle class people, scraping by on $260,000 dollars! Whenever I hear someone talk about how their freeway exit town is so tiny, its like hearing someone talk about how $260,000 dollars is middle class. I will never apologize for pointing out that yes, there are actually are people who are more rural and more poor than that. (I know the difference is that $260,000 is not anywhere close to the median, while Peoria, Illinois is pretty much the median point of the urban/rural continuum. But still, there are a lot of places smaller, and they shouldn't be totally forgotten.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 03:34
|
|
|
glowing-fish posted:I also don't know how Amazon Prime works. How much do people pay for things on it? Is it really possible to have an entire day's shopping delivered to your door step anywhere, at no additional cost? I'm not really B, so I don't have much practice with it, I've only ever really used it for ordering drugs, when I was in the US. Well being able to get actual groceries beyond stuff that can sit in an unrefrigerated truck for several days varies heavily depending on your location. Also there's plenty of things that aren't actually on Amazon Prime shipping unless you pick from different sellers who might charge more for the item than you save other some other seller's paid shipping.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 03:48
|
|
|
He gave a definition of how he was using the word and why for the specific arguments he was making, I don't think anywhere he said all other uses of rural are wrong. It's common and valid when discussing something that doesn't have an exact word attached to it to co-opt a similar word and explain how you are doing so. Refusing to accept a use of a word that doesn't map exactly to Webster's or the census is being purposefully obtuse for it's own sake.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 04:51
|
|
- hi
|
glowing-fish posted:I also don't know how Amazon Prime works. How much do people pay for things on it? Is it really possible to have an entire day's shopping delivered to your door step anywhere, at no additional cost? I'm not really B, so I don't have much practice with it, I've only ever really used it for ordering drugs, when I was in the US. Yes, for your example, it would be perfect, as none of those items are perishable or time-sensitive. No one NEEDS a DVD set right this second like they would for something more important like food or diapers or what have you. So your entire loving gimmick is "No one can claim to be rural unless they're like the 1% of most rural people?" You must live in a shack away from all society to be considered rural by glowing fish. Or on a real mountain, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 04:56
|
|
|
Ocean Book posted:He gave a definition of how he was using the word and why for the specific arguments he was making, I don't think anywhere he said all other uses of rural are wrong. It's common and valid when discussing something that doesn't have an exact word attached to it to co-opt a similar word and explain how you are doing so. Refusing to accept a use of a word that doesn't map exactly to Webster's or the census is being purposefully obtuse for it's own sake. he has a long history of gimmick posting in the Trump thread with this exact shtick and has been probated over it previously
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 05:17
|
|
|
I recall the thread about rural poverty was about 10% opiates epidemic, 80% arguing over the definition of 'rural', 10% unironic 'We should just let them die'.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 07:48
|
|
|
Trees are good people.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 14:51
|
|
|
exploded mummy posted:he has a long history of gimmick posting in the Trump thread with this exact shtick and has been probated over it previously It didn't start as a gimmick, but I did give into temptation when people said, for example, that Connecticut is a neglected region of the country. It is not a gimmick and it is an important point. I was not one of the people who ever believed the claims that Trump voters were acting out of "economic anxiety". I also never believed that Trump voters were "rural", in the sense that they were people who were concerned with issues like infrastructure investment or farm policy. Its not like the residents of Butler County, Ohio (middle class suburb north of Cincinnati, and (I believe) Trump's biggest vote getting county in Ohio) voted for Trump because he promised to finally build a bridge across the old ravine so that Jim's Market could finally get fresh milk every day. Its an interesting and important point that the anti-establishment rebellion we are supposedly in has never extended to people wanting to give up globalization in the form of Walmart, McDonalds and massive freeway interchanges. And in fact, for some people, those things are a SIGN of rebellion, because you know, coastal elites won't eat at McDonalds.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 15:53
|
|
|
Inescapable Duck posted:I recall the thread about rural poverty was about 10% opiates epidemic, 80% arguing over the definition of 'rural', 10% unironic 'We should just let them die'. I used to order 2 pound bags of poppy seeds off of Amazon, receive them at my home in Montana, and then make a smoothie out of poppy seeds. I would get super energetic. One day I went for a 75 mile bicycle ride, trying to find this complete town that Frank Lloyd Wright designed. Only the town was never built, but I wanted to examine the site.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 15:56
|
|
|
glowing-fish posted:Its an interesting and important point that the anti-establishment rebellion we are supposedly in has never extended to people wanting to give up globalization in the form of Walmart, McDonalds and massive freeway interchanges. That's not what globalization means. All of those things were created in America by Americans for Americans. E: VVV glowing-fish posted:A lot of it has to do with my personal history. I grew up, from 2 to 8, in a small town (about 3000 people) about 30 miles from Portland, Oregon. *extremely glowing fish voice* That's not a REAL small town! See how loving annoying it is? WampaLord fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Oct 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:13
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:So your entire loving gimmick is "No one can claim to be rural unless they're like the 1% of most rural people?" You must live in a shack away from all society to be considered rural by glowing fish. Or on a real mountain, I guess. People can claim to be rural. And depending on the situation, it makes sense in some contexts and not in others. If you have an acre of property and manage to raise food for your self and maybe enough for a farmstand, that is rural, but if that is 1000 dollars a year and you work as an account in an office park in a suburb, than the rest of your life isn't very rural. As far as this retail thread, the definition of rural depends on a person's access to retail. A lot of it has to do with my personal history. I grew up, from 2 to 8, in a small town (about 3000 people) about 30 miles from Portland, Oregon. One of my first memories, when I was 3, was of the new Safeway being constructed. That gave us two supermarkets, with the Safeway being the first national chain. When I was a kid, there was that super market, a McDonalds, a Chevron station, and a True Value hardware store. We walked to the locally owned grocery stores, and went shopping at the local shops, and if we wanted something more, we had to go to "the mall", about 10 miles away. So I would say that was rural, especially because the highway hadn't been widened yet. There were good and bad things about it, like there is a small town friendliness, but also the selection was bad and the produce was probably gross. But it was very different from how it is now. Now that town has 5 times as many people, and it has a Safeway, an Albertsons, a Fred Meyer, a Walmart Super-Center, a Walgreen's, a Dollar Tree, Starbucks, Little Caeser's, Taco Bell, etc, all at the intersection of two six lane highways. I think that is a big change from a rural retail environment to a suburban/exurban one. When the retail in a town is dominated by national chains, with the attendant big box construction and ignoring of local community needs, that is suburban not rural. Its a very big tangible and intangible difference. And yes, very little of the US doesn't have that. I remember the change happening in like 1990, with maybe the 20% of the country that was still functionally rural, where people still shopped at "John's Levis" and "Al and Ernie's Market", shrinking down to maybe 2-3% of the country that still had that kind of small town shopping experience. And of course now, everything is going to change again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:21
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:That's not what globalization means. Walmart depends on global imports. Walmart is a international corporation. McDonalds depends on global food imports, I am guessing, and is also an international corporation. Those big, big freeway interchanges depend on the United States having a big supply of never-ending cheap oil supply from around the world. I know that a lot of people mean "globalization" to mean different things. But I think for a lot of people, they really do think there little midwestern town with a Walmart and McDonalds is a sign of heartland independence, and not a sign of the United States' dependence on global supply nets and financing. People want to pretend they are Pa Ingalls going to Oleson's Mercantile while their actual environment is planned, executed and supplied from corporate headquarters in distant cities. And is all dependent on that oil lasting forever...
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
glowing-fish posted:I used to order 2 pound bags of poppy seeds off of Amazon, receive them at my home in Montana, and then make a smoothie out of poppy seeds. I would get super energetic. One day I went for a 75 mile bicycle ride, trying to find this complete town that Frank Lloyd Wright designed. Only the town was never built, but I wanted to examine the site. Did you find it? Did you stop making the smoothies?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:27
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:That's not what globalization means. Its not a real small town. Read what I wrote. It was a small town, in a way, before the spread of Walmart and Taco Bell, and before the two lane highway that people kept on dying on was replaced by a four/six lane highway.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:27
|
|
|
got any sevens posted:Did you find it? Did you stop making the smoothies? I found the location of it, and I stopped making the smoothies because I moved out of the US. Poppy seed smoothies are really tasty, but due to the shifting amount of alkaloids in the seeds, they can be unpredictable.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:28
|
|
|
glowing-fish posted:Walmart depends on global imports. Walmart is a international corporation. Look, I'll give you Walmart and McDonald's, but a national highway system is literally the opposite of globalization. It's an American creation to benefit America exclusively. It was done with American labor and American money. It has literally nothing to do with globalization.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
Wal-Mart has lost the Mandate of Heaven imo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:32
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:Look, I'll give you Walmart and McDonald's, but a national highway system is literally the opposite of globalization. It's an American creation to benefit America exclusively. It was done with American labor and American money. It has literally nothing to do with globalization. It was co opted from the autobahn and allows for easier freight from mexico, canada, and ports. You're thinking of pre-existing routs like US-2. Stop using hyperbole
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:35
|
|
|
Submarine Sandpaper posted:It was co opted from the autobahn and allows for easier freight from mexico, canada, and ports. You're thinking of pre-existing routs like US-2. Stop using hyperbole The autobahn was co-opted from pre-existing limited access and proto-limited access highways in the US, like the Pulaski Skyway, the Long Island Motor Parkway, and the various state Parkways around NYC - both of those latter being started before the first world war.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:47
|
|
|
The "small town shopping experience" you speak of still exists, you're just more likely to find it in cities than actual small towns.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:49
|
|
|
Submarine Sandpaper posted:It was co opted from the autobahn and allows for easier freight from mexico, canada, and ports. You're thinking of pre-existing routs like US-2. Stop using hyperbole Excuse me sir I believe you'll find it impossible to transport dirty FORIEGN made goods that arrive from over seas via the glorious coast to coast Interstate Highway system.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:56
|
|
|
Xae posted:Excuse me sir I believe you'll find it impossible to transport dirty FORIEGN made goods that arrive from over seas via the glorious coast to coast Interstate Highway system. I didn't make that argument. The argument is that when it was created, the primary benefit was for Americans, not for the globe. Hence, it's not a product of globalization. What the gently caress are you people even on about at this point? Is any other country's highway system also a product of globalization because they carry American goods on it?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
Crow Jane posted:The "small town shopping experience" you speak of still exists, you're just more likely to find it in cities than actual small towns. it's also more expensive; ever tried to buy a tool at a locally owned hardware store? It's going to be the exact poo poo you can buy at Home Depot for 2x the price.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 16:59
|
|
|
big trivia FAIL posted:it's also more expensive; ever tried to buy a tool at a locally owned hardware store? It's going to be the exact poo poo you can buy at Home Depot for 2x the price. Oh word, stuff costs more if you're shopping a store that has to pay a living wage to employees and isnt just outside a city boundary to dodge taxes?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 18:28
|
|
|
got any sevens posted:Oh word, stuff costs more if you're shopping a store that has to pay a living wage to employees and isnt just outside a city boundary to dodge taxes? It's cute that you think being a "local" store means they "have to" pay a living wage. And that you think there's really big enough taxes on small store for that to be relevant, which aren't state or national taxes primarily.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 18:30
|
|
|
Here in exurban Ohio I know that when someone around me identifies as 'rural', that person is almost always a stereotypical Trump voter who doesn't know a thing about farming or real country living. But they sure do have some strong opinions about UHC, Benghazi, Hillary, and climate change! It's usually cultural, not geographical or socioeconomical. It's a dog whistle used to express antipathy for minorities and smart liberal types.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 18:56
|
|
|
got any sevens posted:Oh word, stuff costs more if you're shopping a store that has to pay a living wage to employees and isnt just outside a city boundary to dodge taxes? It has less to do with that, and more with the fact that a smaller chain or individual shops don't have the negotiating power that larger chains do. A lot of places like Home Depot offer better pay and benefits ( if you qualify for them... ) than the small places do. FistEnergy posted:Here in exurban Ohio I know that when someone around me identifies as 'rural', that person is almost always a stereotypical Trump voter who doesn't know a thing about farming or real country living. But they sure do have some strong opinions about UHC, Benghazi, Hillary, and climate change! Checks out. Most of the people I meet that wear rural as a badge of honor are about as authentic as Mossy Oak.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 19:12
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:Look, I'll give you Walmart and McDonald's, but a national highway system is literally the opposite of globalization. It's an American creation to benefit America exclusively. It was done with American labor and American money. It has literally nothing to do with globalization. Uh no ( and you don't know what you're talking about.) Both our internal highways and our internal railroads are part of an international intermodal system. There are even goods that are on us highways right now that were shipped from Asian countries to European countries. It's called a land bridge. They discharge west coast and then load back east coast. Edit: WampaLord posted:Is any other country's highway system also a product of globalization because they carry American goods on it? Yes, definately. Edit: globalization and war. I'd add war as a clear cause. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 19:32
|
|
|
fishmech posted:The autobahn was co-opted from pre-existing limited access and proto-limited access highways in the US, like the Pulaski Skyway, the Long Island Motor Parkway, and the various state Parkways around NYC - both of those latter being started before the first world war. And those from the Holy Roman Empire, which Germany was attempting to make great again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:It has less to do with that, and more with the fact that a smaller chain or individual shops don't have the negotiating power that larger chains do. A lot of places like Home Depot offer better pay and benefits ( if you qualify for them... ) than the small places do. A lot of small business owners see themselves as temporarily embarrassed megacorporations when the only tools in their chest are folksy charm and squeezing their employees harder. The megacorporations still squeeze their employees but have other tools that are actually effective. Larger companies also have the resources to not only computerize large portions of their operations but integrate those computerized systems with each other rather than trying to manage 10,000+ SKUs by hand because adding machines are the tools of the devil. Big retailers have better negotiating power by taking bids from multiple vendors rather than just one because they can’t handle any more. For someone buying machine screws as long as they meet the appropriate specifications, they don’t care where it comes from and having a computerized supply chain ensures that it’s far less likely for supply chain screwups to happen and far easier to figure out where they did happen when they do. It really makes a huge difference. I’ve worked on software that cut the lead time for introducing a new product from 2-3 months to less than a week (not for any company mentioned in this thread, but well known) by eliminating the friction of moving products between departments and smoothing out the pipeline. You can speed it up some more, but there’s a limit to how fast the slow boat from China travels if you’re doing it in parallel. That’s the difference between seasonal catalogues and a modern ecommerce site and that sort of inefficiency is all over the place.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2017 12:44
|
|
|
big trivia FAIL posted:it's also more expensive; ever tried to buy a tool at a locally owned hardware store? It's going to be the exact poo poo you can buy at Home Depot for 2x the price. I've bought tools from the local hardware store and it's a bit more expensive than in the city, but not 2x, maybe it's 10-15% more expensive. A lot of times, depending on what I was looking for, it was cheaper than the big box stores. Lumber for instance from a local sawmill, better quality and cheaper than the poo poo in the big box stores.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2017 13:39
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:Lumber for instance from a local sawmill, better quality and cheaper than the poo poo in the big box stores. If your big box stores are anything like ours I'm always willing to pay more at a real lumber yard (event though I typically end up paying the same or less) just so I don't need to spend 15 minutes sorting through piles of poo poo wood in the store to find the 6 2x4s that are both straight and don't have gigantic knots right in the middle of them taking up 1/3 of the meat of the lumber.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2017 16:13
|
|
|
Almost all the stores around me are these fabled rare "local" stores. In some cases their prices are like double what you'd pay online (before shipping, which evens it out on smaller items) or just 10-20% higher. But on the flip side you get the item right away and can browse easier to talk to people and even see/touch/try the item before you buy it. So I can use amazon's terrible search function to find some colourful striped socks for $5 plus $5 shipping, or go to a cute little shop down the street and get similar and probably better quality socks for $12. Or can buy a frying pan or some kitchen appliance for maybe 10-20% more than I'd pay online, but have a staff member that really knows their poo poo hook me up with the best frying pan for the sort of cooking I do. For me it's knowledgeable staff and the convenience of local retail that easily makes up for the slightly higher price vs buying online. But I'm in Canada where online shopping isn't nearly as good or cheap as the US. I also like the social aspect of it, I'll run into people I know while shopping on foot, I'll get to know staff at stores I frequent, it's nice.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2017 18:57
|
|
|
You can also sometimes just find really cool things that weren't necessarily what you set out to buy, but that looked interesting. I've built up a decent little arsenal of spices, condiments, etc just by impulse-buying stuff from the halal grocery in my neighborhood when I pop in there for like, a couple of lemons or something else that I didn't feel like going to the supermarket for. I've also developed an addiction to Indian and Middle Eastern snacks and candy in the time I've been shopping there (possibly due to the owner slipping some into my bag every so often just because), which basically means they have a customer for life. I find I'm much more goal-oriented when shopping online, which I suppose is good for my bank account, but it makes for fewer pleasant surprises/discoveries along the way.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
Indian snack foods are the best. Indian grocery stores also have the best dried beans/ lentils / etc. Also curry oats.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2017 21:16
|
|
|
I'm not sure my life was complete before I discovered the existence of chikki in all it's beautiful forms. I'm not even much of a sweet tooth, but it's just the best.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2017 21:57
|
|
|
Motronic posted:If your big box stores are anything like ours I'm always willing to pay more at a real lumber yard (event though I typically end up paying the same or less) just so I don't need to spend 15 minutes sorting through piles of poo poo wood in the store to find the 6 2x4s that are both straight and don't have gigantic knots right in the middle of them taking up 1/3 of the meat of the lumber. I inevitably read this in Nick Offerman's voice. glowing-fish fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Oct 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 20:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 15:39 |
|
|
glowing-fish posted:I inevitably read this in Nick Offerman's voice. It's no mistake that somebody gave me that av. Before I had ever seen the show. So I watched it and was like......who's been following me around all these years and why am i not getting royalties?
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 20:21
|
|