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blarzgh posted:Schools in America don't have some magic criminal jurisdiction. If someone commits a crime against you, and you tell both the school, and the police, the police are going to investigate no matter what the school thinks it wants to do. Anne Whateley fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 17:29
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i like nice words
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blarzgh posted:Schools in America don't have some magic criminal jurisdiction. If someone commits a crime against you, and you tell both the school, and the police, the police are going to investigate no matter what the school thinks it wants to do. gosh if only there were hundreds of articles over the past few years that showed how extremely wrong & frankly retarded you are for posting this
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Oct 17, 2017 17:36
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Anne Whateley posted:Still not how it works. The police "investigation" can take like five minutes before they shrug and say the university is handling it or they just don't feel like pursuing it. Remember all the stories about mattress girl, for example? Want that the one where the university ended up settling with the accused?
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Oct 17, 2017 17:37
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Bubblyblubber posted:
ugh this one bothers the poo poo out of me because i have overwatch buddies who are always "you jumping on?" and i have to keep telling them i dont play games until after bedtime pay attention to your loving kid, idiot blarzgh posted:Schools in America don't have some magic criminal jurisdiction. If someone commits a crime against you, and you tell both the school, and the police, the police are going to investigate no matter what the school thinks it wants to do. many american universities have their own police departments with jurisdiction over crimes that happen on campus
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Oct 17, 2017 17:37
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boner confessor posted:many american universities have their own police departments with jurisdiction over crimes that happen on campus This, the university I went to had campus police that were serious business and handled investigations themselves.
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Oct 17, 2017 17:39
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blarzgh posted:Schools in America don't have some magic criminal jurisdiction. If someone commits a crime against you, and you tell both the school, and the police, the police are going to investigate no matter what the school thinks it wants to do. You're correct in that it is not magic, however an overwhelming majority of colleges and universities in the US have their own, autonomous PD. efb !! Though I did pass over the part where you said "the police are going to investigate no matter what the school thinks" which completely ignores that the police are free to say "ehh, we're good" and brush things off. Ugly In The Morning posted:I really hate there's no way to balance "innocent until proven guilty" and "accusing rape victims of false allegations" sleepwalkers fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 17:47
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lol that anyone unironically thinks American police will always do due diligence in an investigation.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:08
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I think regardless of the police having a good track record with these sorts of crimes its still important to give the accused a fair trial and stick the the results. The justice system needs improvement in this area in general but that doesn't mean in the meantime we should skip over everyone's rights and just boot them from school without a proper investigation.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:26
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cumshitter posted:Like if they're checking your references you either hosed the interview or you're already hired and they're looking for reasons to fire you. If you hosed the interview they wouldn't bother calling your references. My current boss called all three of my references and then hired me.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:29
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cumshitter posted:And yes, I did put it on resumes and actually listed it on a resume I used to get out of retail. It's illegal for an HR person to say "Don't hire this person" and when you have worked for a large enough company all their HR department is going to say is, "Yes, I can confirm cumshitter worked here from X date to Y date in Z capacity." I know this was a page back, but this is absolutely, 100% false. This is kinda like the "You have to tell me if you're a cop" myth. You can give a detailed reference, and it can be negative as all hell, up to and including saying "I would not re-hire this person and I would not recommend them for a position in this field."
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Oct 17, 2017 18:30
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Like the whole point of it being difficult to legally convict someone of serious crimes is that the penalty is severe and will last their whole lives, the idea behind it being that it's better to let several guilty go free than to commit the most grave of offenses and have the state punish an innocent. I think it's okay if on an individual level people accept that false claims are rare and side with the accuser, but when it comes to larger institutions with more power they should be ethically required to cooperate with the law and give the accused due process, accepting whatever verdict the courts hand down.
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Oct 17, 2017 18:31
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Dienes posted:I know this was a page back, but this is absolutely, 100% false. This is kinda like the "You have to tell me if you're a cop" myth. yeah, the confusion is that professional HR departments tend to avoid doing that like the plague for even insanely lovely and unhinged former employees, because their whole thing is reducing legal liability/risk for the company and giving a strongly worded negative reference tends to increase their liability for no immediate benefit to the company itself
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Oct 17, 2017 18:37
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My SIL (32F) thinks my husband and I (29M and 34F) are taking her daughter (8F) to Disneyworld on vacation. We're not, and never intended to.quote:If you look through my post history, my husband and I are CF. We don't have kids for any number of reasons. We both have niblings on both sides of the family though. "But my childfree Disney World trip!! Oh yeah, the kid is self-harming and none of us adults actually care."
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Oct 17, 2017 18:59
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blarzgh posted:Schools in America don't have some magic criminal jurisdiction. If someone commits a crime against you, and you tell both the school, and the police, the police are going to investigate no matter what the school thinks it wants to do. I know you've already been told how wrong you are but I just have to add that when I was in college if you got raped/assaulted/found a dead body and called 911, they would tell you to hang up and call campus police. The county/state police aren't going to do poo poo.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:08
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The District Attorney: Thats the elected official/organization that determines whether to file a charge against a person in criminal court, and prosecute the crime. the DA decides if they have enough evidence to convict based on the investigation done by police officers, and/or its own internal investigators. The DA has prosecutorial discretion to decide whether or not a criminal charge is worth pursuing, generally basing that decision on whether or not it has enough persuasive evidence to obtain a conviction. Police Department: An organization that investigates and responds to crimes. Police have discretion to investigate and respond as they see fit. Their relationship with the DA is more like teamwork than managment. Campus Police: There are two general kinds of campus cops - first are real cops, with all the same powers and authority as real police. They are a small police force with concurrent jurisdiction as real police created by legislation. They do the same job as real police, and they answer to the DA just the same. The second kind are private security guards, just like you'd find at wal-mart or whatever. No special police powers. University Staff: Government employees with no police power whatsoever. So, if you got stabbed in a parking lot, and you tell the head of your history department, and then tell the DA, or the Local PD, the head of the History Department has no legal power whatsoever to tell the DA that they aren't allowed to prosecute. If the school is performing an internal investigation into an "incident", the DA and/or local police are 100% free to conduct their own investigation, and make their own determination of the event. A Title IX claim is a Civil Lawsuit that someone can file against a School because the School did not take action to remedy a hostile educational environment. When a school initiates a Title IX investigation, its because if they don't they'll get sued and can lose their federal funding. Schools I believe are required to tell the student who makes the report that they also have the right to report the crime to the police, because its a different process. Schools cannot send people to jail, they can only kick them out. Let the making GBS threads and "well actually" begin.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:09
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Have you ever actually been to a college campus, because you have no idea how they work.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:10
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CharlestheHammer posted:Have you ever actually been to a college campus, because you have no idea how they work. Ok, use google to show me how I'm wrong.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:11
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Jesus Christ he doubled down. Buddy, you have some great ideas, on paper.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:11
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blarzgh posted:Ok, use google to show me how I'm wrong. What. Why
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Oct 17, 2017 19:11
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CharlestheHammer posted:What. I don't know, for fun I guess?
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Oct 17, 2017 19:13
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blarzgh posted:Ok, use google to show me how I'm wrong. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=unprosecuted+campus+rapes christ you're an idiot
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Oct 17, 2017 19:13
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blarzgh posted:I don't know, for fun I guess? That doesn't sound fun it sounds tedious.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:14
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sierramike76 posted:My SIL (32F) thinks my husband and I (29M and 34F) are taking her daughter (8F) to Disneyworld on vacation. We're not, and never intended to. "Adults-only Disney vacation" is one of the lamest things I can think of
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Oct 17, 2017 19:14
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"this widely reported thing isn't actually happening because it would mean that people in authority were being LAZY and UNSCRUPULOUS instead of following the RULES!" he shouted in the Arby's checkout line
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Oct 17, 2017 19:15
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If it is on paper, and that is how the world works!
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Oct 17, 2017 19:15
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sierramike76 posted:My SIL (32F) thinks my husband and I (29M and 34F) are taking her daughter (8F) to Disneyworld on vacation. We're not, and never intended to. Its not a buried lede yet, the kid is still working its way up to it.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:15
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sierramike76 posted:My SIL (32F) thinks my husband and I (29M and 34F) are taking her daughter (8F) to Disneyworld on vacation. We're not, and never intended to. 
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Oct 17, 2017 19:16
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sierramike76 posted:My SIL (32F) thinks my husband and I (29M and 34F) are taking her daughter (8F) to Disneyworld on vacation. We're not, and never intended to. I mean it'd be one thing if they were going as a couple or something and didn't want to have a kid in tow, but if they're going with the child's grandparents I don't really see why it'd be that hard to bring the kid. It's not like grandma is gonna go clubbing with them, and having the grandparents there means there's plenty of people to share the help of babysitting. If anything I'd imagine the grandparents would want to retire earlier in the evening and can just hangout with their grandkid while the OP and her husband can do some more nightlife stuff.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:16
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I don't get what ya'll are saying; do you think Schools have the legal authority to halt police investigation and DA prosecution of crimes?
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Oct 17, 2017 19:18
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blarzgh posted:I don't get what ya'll are saying; do you think Schools have the legal authority to halt police investigation and DA prosecution of crimes? Why are you so stupid. You're literally stupid. You're stupid as hell.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:21
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blarzgh posted:I don't get what ya'll are saying; do you think Schools have the legal authority to halt police investigation and DA prosecution of crimes? you're talking past each other, the reality is the real police are not actually obligated to do anything and will frequently just defer to letting the university handle it internally. I agree that victims should pursue things outside their university if they have the option, but it's not like a guaranteed thing to happen.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:21
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blarzgh posted:
blarzgh posted:I don't get what ya'll are saying; do you think Schools have the legal authority to halt police investigation and DA prosecution of crimes? You're getting poo poo on because you're dense. People think that prosecution of sexual assault on campus is woefully inadequate and not nearly as straightforward as you're suggesting.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:23
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blarzgh posted:I don't get what ya'll are saying; do you think Schools have the legal authority to halt police investigation and DA prosecution of crimes? No? But they also don't need it
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Oct 17, 2017 19:25
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blarzgh posted:I don't get what ya'll are saying; do you think Schools have the legal authority to halt police investigation and DA prosecution of crimes? No they are saying that A: lots of rapes are reported to a school but not the police, in part because B: police regularly ignore reports of rapes that happen on college campuses. And C: colleges will often sit on or cover up reports of rapes because their priority is making the school look good. Also D: While there exists a clear legal standard of how police and large institutions should interact, money and power often mean that standard isn't applied.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:26
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blarzgh posted:I don't get what ya'll are saying; do you think Schools have the legal authority to halt police investigation and DA prosecution of crimes? in an extremely brock turner voice "guys, guys, where are you getting this crazy idea that universities have any sway on the justice system?!"
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Oct 17, 2017 19:28
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Lol at the thread lecturing a lawyer on how the law works. Never change goons.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:29
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ArbitraryC posted:I mean it'd be one thing if they were going as a couple or something and didn't want to have a kid in tow, but if they're going with the child's grandparents I don't really see why it'd be that hard to bring the kid. It's not like grandma is gonna go clubbing with them, and having the grandparents there means there's plenty of people to share the help of babysitting. If anything I'd imagine the grandparents would want to retire earlier in the evening and can just hangout with their grandkid while the OP and her husband can do some more nightlife stuff. Yeah... No Maybe instead of dumping off her kid in summer internship else this non of an obviously troubled kid can take some responsibility for her own child. I don't know how any I've reads that story and since how name the op the bad guys.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:30
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ArbitraryC posted:I mean it'd be one thing if they were going as a couple or something and didn't want to have a kid in tow, but if they're going with the child's grandparents I don't really see why it'd be that hard to bring the kid. It's not like grandma is gonna go clubbing with them, and having the grandparents there means there's plenty of people to share the help of babysitting. If anything I'd imagine the grandparents would want to retire earlier in the evening and can just hangout with their grandkid while the OP and her husband can do some more nightlife stuff. the badmom SIL is using her daughter as a weapon and while unfortunate they need to either go no contact with that side of the family entirely or give in and shoulder the burden of raising the emotionally disturbed and neglected niece
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Oct 17, 2017 19:31
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ArbitraryC posted:you're talking past each other, the reality is the real police are not actually obligated to do anything and will frequently just defer to letting the university handle it internally. I agree that victims should pursue things outside their university if they have the option, but it's not like a guaranteed thing to happen. Its important that people educate themselves on the process. People should understand that in addition to the Title IX investigation, a claimant should hire a civil attorney, and also report the assault to the police, and the district attorney. People should understand that they're distinct entities, and there are individuals even within those entities. And wherever people are getting these statistics about police departments refusing to investigate a crime because it happened on a college campus, there are plenty of civil rights attorneys that would love to know. The system is made up of disparate parts for a reason, though it can still be abused. But if victims are being told by their so-called supporters that, "there's nothing you can do, the system is broken" and people are basing this admonition on an absolutely false concept of what the system actually is, then they're doing a major disservice to people by fostering ignorance to fuel outrage.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:31
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Ride The Gravitron posted:Yeah... No yeah the SIL should be taking care of her own kid I just don't really see why they'd literally want to go to disneyland with the kids grandparents and not bring the 8 year old, you'd think the grandparents would enjoy doing something memorable with their grandkid too.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:34
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