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Neito posted:Speaking of "Characters that are terrible people", I don't know if this is a flaw in the medium or just "Nerds are lovely people", but I'm really annoyed that people start idolizing characters that are clearly intended to be lovely people (Rick Sanchez being the current most obvious example, but this goes back even to Scott Pilgrim; neither of these men are supposed to be good people in your eyes). Hell, if you want to go further back Holden Caufield to me is the poster child of "celebrate the bad person because he's the protagonist" trope. The only positive thing about that book is that it finally got rid of John Lennon.  Edit for new page: My IIMM is kinda similar, in that people I think are terrible that are the protagonist get justified by the supporting cast being even dumber. It's one of the things that made it hard for me to get into Rick & Morty, and something I found similar when I watched King of the Hill. I didn't necessarily agree with Hank Hill, but the fact Peggy was played to be even dumber to make Hank look like he's in the right rubbed me the wrong way. Then again, it's been a long time since I watched the show & my views may actually have changed to be more like Hank now that I'm older. Android Apocalypse has a new favorite as of 15:41 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 15:37
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Gum posted:Idk it definitely seems to focus on a specific character archetype (Highly competent man who is hosed up mentally and ruins the lives of those around them) Probably because it's like them except for the 'highly competent' part. And how they escape consequences for their actions through said competence.
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Oct 18, 2017 15:48
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Gum posted:Idk it definitely seems to focus on a specific character archetype (Highly competent man who is hosed up mentally and ruins the lives of those around them) I think it's always going to be an issue when the central theme is monstrous genius EmmyOk posted:This is why I'm liking Bojack a lot, I can't imagine anyone wants to be him. I mean I personally don't want to be Rick or Scott either because they're not good or fulfilled people but I can understand people wanting to be them. Bojack's particular genius is in presenting him as a complete failure with a horrible unfulfilling life; it's actively hostile towards the idea that any one in it truly gains anything by being terrible.
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Oct 18, 2017 15:49
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The thing that irrationally irritates me about Bojack Horseman is that they're animals. Why are they animals? What does the show gain by having animals as characters instead of humans? Those occasional jokes where someone has a particular trait because of what type of animal they are? Those are the worst part of the show.
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Oct 18, 2017 16:03
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Neito posted:Speaking of "Characters that are terrible people", I don't know if this is a flaw in the medium or just "Nerds are lovely people", but I'm really annoyed that people start idolizing characters that are clearly intended to be lovely people (Rick Sanchez being the current most obvious example, but this goes back even to Scott Pilgrim; neither of these men are supposed to be good people in your eyes). Because the conflate the two separate character qualities - competence/intelligence/exceptionalism and awfulness/unlikability/social exclusion - and believe the latter is a result of the former. The character is intelligent and therefore they are unlikable. They then try to retrofit their own unlikability to being intelligent and exceptional.
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Oct 18, 2017 16:19
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Tiggum posted:The thing that irrationally irritates me about Bojack Horseman is that they're animals. Why are they animals? What does the show gain by having animals as characters instead of humans? Those occasional jokes where someone has a particular trait because of what type of animal they are? Those are the worst part of the show. For surrealism and because its ironic to have stupid animal jokes in an otherwise dark show.
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Oct 18, 2017 16:21
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And just truly awful puns.
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Oct 18, 2017 16:25
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Android Apocalypse posted:Hell, if you want to go further back Holden Caufield to me is the poster child of "celebrate the bad person because he's the protagonist" trope. It wasen't until later seasons of King of the Hill that it turned into "Here is Hank vs a group/idea that Mike Judge doesn't like".
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Oct 18, 2017 16:28
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Aphrodite posted:And just truly awful puns. It's this and I love it.
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Oct 18, 2017 16:32
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I'm reminded of the early season KotH where Hank gets caught out in a tornado while trying to get to his family in a shelter, and he finally proclaims that he loves them in what he has good reason to fear are his last moments... while the tornado rips off all his clothes one by one. Amusing but also a pretty amusingly blatant visual metaphor.
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Oct 18, 2017 16:47
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Inescapable Duck posted:I'm reminded of the early season KotH where Hank gets caught out in a tornado while trying to get to his family in a shelter, and he finally proclaims that he loves them in what he has good reason to fear are his last moments... while the tornado rips off all his clothes one by one. Amusing but also a pretty amusingly blatant visual metaphor. Not his underwear.
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Oct 18, 2017 17:05
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Diet Poison posted:Not his underwear. Fair, but with how prudish he is there's hardly a difference.
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Oct 18, 2017 17:16
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Inescapable Duck posted:Fair, but with how prudish he is there's hardly a difference. I think you missed a joke.
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Oct 18, 2017 17:37
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food court bailiff posted:I think you missed a joke. Probably, it's been a while.
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Oct 18, 2017 18:08
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Is the joke his narrow urethra or his tiny rear end?
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Oct 18, 2017 18:15
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Werong Bustope posted:Yeah, it doesn't come across as well in S1 but one of the driving forces of the show is Bojacks's own refusal to grow or learn, driven by his deep self loathing. Presented with an awful situation of his own creation, he comes close to a moment of genuine self-reflection but at the last minute sabotages it, like he does everything in his life because he hates himself. A central theme is how the audience can empathise with Bojack's misery but also see how his ego and pride get in the way of experiencing personal growth - over and over again he's given an opportunity to learn something and instead reacts with crude spite, in this case because Herb refuses to give him the catharsis he's looking for. I enjoyed the first season but after season 2 felt that was enough. When your main character is miserable and incapable of change I don't really want to watch that same drum get beaten over and over.
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Oct 18, 2017 18:23
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To me the worst part in the Ant-Man movie was that the bad guy already have a perfect fine super weapon. There is that scene in the bathroom where he use a "not working" miniaturization gun that turn a guy into a small goo spit. poo poo... Other villains and hitmen would love that! And there is no reason why it would not work in guys like Thor or Hulk, unless there is a contrived bullshit explanation to why they are imune to the shrinking effect.
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Oct 18, 2017 19:40
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Neito posted:Speaking of "Characters that are terrible people", I don't know if this is a flaw in the medium or just "Nerds are lovely people", but I'm really annoyed that people start idolizing characters that are clearly intended to be lovely people (Rick Sanchez being the current most obvious example, but this goes back even to Scott Pilgrim; neither of these men are supposed to be good people in your eyes). Scott Pilgrim was a douchebag, but he was clearly meant to be identifiable and he got everything he wanted in the end. I think the problem there is that being a complete Nice Guy with no respect for women was only intended to be a minor character flaw.
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Oct 18, 2017 19:50
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Captain Quack posted:To me the worst part in the Ant-Man movie was that the bad guy already have a perfect fine super weapon. Yeah that seemed like setting up the Yellowjacket suit having that kind of weapon, but nope.
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Oct 18, 2017 19:51
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Aphrodite posted:Yeah that seemed like setting up the Yellowjacket suit having that kind of weapon, but nope. I remember now the first Spider-Man movie where the Green Goblin have that weird skeleton bomb thing that is used only once, and then forgotten.
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Oct 18, 2017 20:11
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Maybe he only had the one
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Oct 18, 2017 20:25
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jabby posted:Scott Pilgrim was a douchebag, but he was clearly meant to be identifiable and he got everything he wanted in the end. I think the problem there is that being a complete Nice Guy with no respect for women was only intended to be a minor character flaw. Well, ok. The point of Scott Pilgrim was that you can't fix yourself until you own up to your mistakes and accept that you were a dickass and work to make up for it. Volume 1-5 scott is not a role model, but a cautionary tale. Volume 6 is his redemption arc.
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Oct 18, 2017 21:47
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sassassin posted:I enjoyed the first season but after season 2 felt that was enough. When your main character is miserable and incapable of change I don't really want to watch that same drum get beaten over and over. Yeah that's not that appealing to me. I understand having a terrible character who's incredibly self-destructive but I can't imagine wanting it to be the exact same after four seasons. I always liked Venture Brothers a lot because there were lasting changes to characters after events across seasons.
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Oct 18, 2017 21:47
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Neito posted:Well, ok. The point of Scott Pilgrim was that you can't fix yourself until you own up to your mistakes and accept that you were a dickass and work to make up for it. Volume 1-5 scott is not a role model, but a cautionary tale. Volume 6 is his redemption arc. I don't know much about the comics, I meant the film. The time between him being a dickass and him apparently redeeming himself is so short it's not really character development, more just a 'lol he's awesome now'.
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Oct 18, 2017 21:58
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jabby posted:I don't know much about the comics, I meant the film. The time between him being a dickass and him apparently redeeming himself is so short it's not really character development, more just a 'lol he's awesome now'. The film is 1200 pages of comic smashed into two hours; the compression takes some of the effect out of it.
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Oct 18, 2017 22:04
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I know people like Tina in Bob's Burgers but I can't because her annoying traits outweigh her entertaining ones for me. Also I know Bob's business failing is the joke but all the failures make me nervous especially with all the jokes about how badly they're in debt. The new TBS show coming out called Drop The Mic has stars in rap battles and it's painfully obvious that they all have ghostwriters.
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Oct 19, 2017 00:24
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Louise is the annoying one to me because I feel her purpose is to be a poo poo-stirring iconoclast who specifically looks out for her own interests. I just watched The Silence of the Louise episode and her motivation to figure out who destroyed Mr. Frond's dolls is purely to go to the water park as they were promised when the class read 500 books. Yeah, that's actually more realistic that a kid would be out for their self interests, but this is the Irrationally Irritating
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Oct 19, 2017 01:23
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EmmyOk posted:I can't imagine wanting it to be the exact same after four seasons. Season 4 at least ends on a nice note (after one hell of a journey) Rationally irritating season 4 moment: aside from showing how Todd had grown beyond needing Bojack, Todd's story was weak as gently caress and they could've just left him out entirely
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Oct 19, 2017 01:36
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Well, it's not, if that helps. There are lasting changes, it's just Bojack is such a mess and has so many problems with so many layers that it takes some time (and some grade-A like-you-never-expected fuckups) to start making noticeable improvements. I liked the clown dentists, which is apparently an unpopular opinion
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Oct 19, 2017 01:55
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Gaunab posted:Also I know Bob's business failing is the joke but all the failures make me nervous especially with all the jokes about how badly they're in debt. I actually posted this in the Bob's Burgers thread back when it happened, but it really irritated me how the family can do incredibly stupid poo poo which no working class family would actually ever do. Like throw away a brand new couch and take back their old broken one because they "missed" the old one's stains and lumps. You're working poor who just spent, for them, a massive sum of money they really couldn't afford to finally get themselves an actual, brand new bit of furniture, possibly for the first time in their lives. Then they went and literally let some teenagers set it on fire so they could get back the broken one which they had thrown away. Into a sewer.
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Oct 19, 2017 05:01
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Captain Quack posted:To me the worst part in the Ant-Man movie was that the bad guy already have a perfect fine super weapon. I thought it was weird when Ant-Man was breaking into Michael Douglass’s house and he sees the safe door and says something like “ that’s the same steel that was on the Titanic, it will be weak to ice!” Then freezes it open. It’s not like the titanic was weak to ice, it was was that it rammed full speed into an iceberg.
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Oct 19, 2017 06:41
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EmmyOk posted:Yeah that's not that appealing to me. I understand having a terrible character who's incredibly self-destructive but I can't imagine wanting it to be the exact same after four seasons. I always liked Venture Brothers a lot because there were lasting changes to characters after events across seasons. Yeah, and they even demonstrate it; compare Brock Samson in later seasons where he's far more paternal to early season and flashbacks where he's an emotionless killing machine. To say nothing of the Venture Bros themselves becoming almost completely different both from their original selves and each other when they started out identical. Of course, it's expected for children and teenagers to change significantly as they grow, while adults tend to be more set in their ways.
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Oct 19, 2017 06:42
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Inescapable Duck posted:Yeah, and they even demonstrate it; compare Brock Samson in later seasons where he's far more paternal to early season and flashbacks where he's an emotionless killing machine. To say nothing of the Venture Bros themselves becoming almost completely different both from their original selves and each other when they started out identical. Also the kids are no longer replaceable.
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Oct 19, 2017 06:44
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Gaunab posted:The new TBS show coming out called Drop The Mic has stars in rap battles and it's painfully obvious that they all have ghostwriters. My mate is really into freestyle rap battles and the like and used to show me loads of the local lads here doing it in the park and I was rather impressed with it all... until he then revealed that it was all pre-written and scripted. I genuinely thought these kids were just meeting up and just coming up with these "fresh rhymes" on the fly which I thought was the appeal? I mean given enough time sitting at home anyone could write a rap (quality may vary, obviously) but doing it off the top of your head seems special. I pointed this out to him but he wasn't having any of it. In a similar way (and maybe I'm just naive about this) I found out recently that standups can work crowds into heckling them in ways that they want them too. Talking about Stuart Lee here mostly. It's impressive still, but a bit of the magic has gone.
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Oct 19, 2017 08:36
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What ever became of the dude who turned into The Leader in Incredible Hulk? That film is part of the MCU, right?
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Oct 19, 2017 11:46
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BiggerBoat posted:What ever became of the dude who turned into The Leader in Incredible Hulk? That film is part of the MCU, right? We don't know because he's never appeared again. Yes.
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Oct 19, 2017 11:56
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When someone is talking to someone that others can't see (ghost, angel, alien, whatever) and they never think of pulling their phone out. I get that this was a thing before mobile phones, but it makes absolutely no sense in the 21st century. Everyone's looking at you like you're a crazy person, but if you just held your phone up to your face or wore some of those earbuds with the microphone built in that come with every phone then you'd just look like a normal person and no one would suspect a thing.
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Oct 19, 2017 13:25
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Your Gay Uncle posted:I thought it was weird when Ant-Man was breaking into Michael Douglass’s house and he sees the safe door and says something like “ that’s the same steel that was on the Titanic, it will be weak to ice!” Then freezes it open. It’s not like the titanic was weak to ice, it was was that it rammed full speed into an iceberg. He's not being literal.
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Oct 19, 2017 13:50
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Tiggum posted:When someone is talking to someone that others can't see (ghost, angel, alien, whatever) and they never think of pulling their phone out. I get that this was a thing before mobile phones, but it makes absolutely no sense in the 21st century. Everyone's looking at you like you're a crazy person, but if you just held your phone up to your face or wore some of those earbuds with the microphone built in that come with every phone then you'd just look like a normal person and no one would suspect a thing. My local mental health services have a drop off for broken old phones to give to schizophrenics and other people with psychotic disorders so that if the urge to talk back to inner voices becomes overwhelming in public they can just pretend to be on the phone. Even people with a tenuous grasp on reality can work that one out.
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Oct 19, 2017 14:11
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Everyone’s probably already thinking they’re talking on headsets anyway.
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Oct 19, 2017 14:30
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