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D&D functions on the idea that you get more powerful the more stuff you kill, so it should be easy to picture a killing-based meritocracy. Murdocracy. Goffer posted:(evolutionary psych is a load of rubbish but kinda works here) Yep, that sure is a bunch of handwaving about how an always rampaging horde would work. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 02:56
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Brother Entropy posted:play as the rampaging orc horde yourself; destroy the terrible elf supremacist empire encroaching on your lands, kill their slavers and looters and child laborers Droam Campaigns are good poo poo friend. Viva la revolution
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Oct 19, 2017 02:57
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AlphaDog posted:Countdown to "why did you have to make this discussion all political?" and/or "now you're talking about people like me being the bad guys this is not ok". Considering that we started this conversation talking about the new racist D&D book, that would be silly. Which virtually guarantees it will happen. Goffer posted:Been doing a bit of looking at evolutionary psych and life history strategies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_history_theory and depending on the lifecycle of the Orc, there might be some great explanations. According to the evolutionary psych, organisms that live faster lifes: This isn't directed at you, but just an observation. It's interesting that you can look at this list of traits and pretty much see how almost all of them are arguments made by white supremacists.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:00
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Serf posted:It's not hard to come up with reasons why people would fight each other, and I don't know why people need to come up with bullshit like "always chaotic evil" or whatever. "They hate us for our freedoms"
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Oct 19, 2017 03:06
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gradenko_2000 posted:"They hate us for our freedoms" "Respect the Warbanner!"
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Oct 19, 2017 03:08
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Orcs are literally the only creatures in the world that still get EXP from looting valuable objects.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:11
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Serf posted:This isn't directed at you, but just an observation. It's interesting that you can look at this list of traits and pretty much see how almost all of them are arguments made by white supremacists. Yeah i got that feeling too after listening to a bunch of evo psychs talk about it. It's actually usually used inbiology to describe various animals and insects and their mating behaviors (which I think is ok), but some geniuses decided to apply it to humans and look at behaviors of different groups of people. Some of them seem kind of confused about the prescriptive vs descriptive nature of evolutionary theory. I think it depends on sentence following the explanation - 'therefore we should...' (a) take away their voting rights, pay them less, put them into camps or (b) use it to understand society better and to help those adversely affected (c) in D&D, kill them because they actually are a rampaging horde coming right for you and you will probably actually die
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Oct 19, 2017 03:16
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I should point out that none of the Chultans in ToA are seen as noble savages. They run the major port on the peninsula and the only hostile ones you meet are basic thugs and pirates. The primary enemies inhabiting the Jungle are Beasts, Dinosaurs, Undead and Undead Dinosaurs. The most notable intelligent group native to the jungle that is hostile are the Yuan-ti which are evil snake people. (And Yuan-ti have a better excuse for always being evil then most monsters. Namely that they used to be normal evil humans that used evil magic to turn themselves into evil snake people.)
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Oct 19, 2017 03:17
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The Racism Defender has logged on.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:18
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Nitrousoxide posted:Hmm Interesting. Maybe start as a human variant paladin sentinal and get 3 levels into that for the smite, dueling fighting style, and oath of vengeance then the rest into tempest cleric? Smite continues to scale as you get higher spell slots, they don't have to specifically be paladin spell slots thanks to the errata. Plus you can get divine strike on top of that which replicates your improved smite anyway so you're only missing out on the extra attack which would chew through your spell slots too fast anyway with smite to be very useful. That would work fine, I think. In general multiclassing a Paladin to a full caster is pretty good, and since you're going to Cleric you won't miss the charisma bonus to prepared Paladin spells. You'd be doing it purely for the Smites. Note that half your Paladin levels count for getting spell slots through multiclassing, and you get Divine Smite at level 2. That means you could multiclass out to Cleric at level 2 and you'd only lose one level of spell slot progression (but still two levels behind on preparing higher level spells). You wouldn't get the Channel Divinity or Oath Spell features of the Vengeance Paladin if you do that, but it doesn't seem like a huge loss since you still get the big melee damage feature and the fighting style.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:19
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This will only be settled once MonsterEnvy emails Mearls to get confirmation that things are Not Racist.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:19
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Serf posted:The Racism Defender has logged on. I am just posting stuff from the adventure. (Which no matter how you may feel about this topic is very solid. Probably the best one they have come out with.)
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Oct 19, 2017 03:22
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likequote:“I’m gonna ignore for a moment the fact that they described [Chult] as a wild, untamed land—how much of Africa was thought of for a long time,” Dace, who runs the Black Role-Players Organization, told me. He had bigger fish to fry: “Their speaking patterns are described right down to having clicks. This creates a problem if white gamers were wanting to do an accent and do serious clicks and clucks based on what they’ve seen on TV about African languages.” Dace noted that Africa has upwards of 2,000 languages and only three language groups use clicks. It is one of the most stereotyped aspects of Africa.” Dace suggested using Swahili as another point of inspiration. read the article
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Oct 19, 2017 03:22
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MonsterEnvy, for your sake as well as ours, I don't think this discussion is going to be a major factor in swinging peoples's opinions on buying/playing TOA or not. You can let it go.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:24
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MonsterEnvy posted:I am just posting stuff from the adventure. (Which no matter how you may feel about this topic is very solid. Probably the best one they have come out with.) I would hope that it would be better than Drums on Fire Mountain. I love a good, well-designed racist adventure.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:25
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Serf posted:like I did. I don't care much for the article. It also does not change that the Chultans are not presented as savages. On that topic there is a few things involving the old kingdoms of Chult. At least one of them will probably be returned by the end of the adventure. Serf posted:I would hope that it would be better than Drums on Fire Mountain. I love a good, well-designed racist adventure. gradenko_2000 posted:MonsterEnvy, for your sake as well as ours, I don't think this discussion is going to be a major factor in swinging peoples's opinions on buying/playing TOA or not. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 03:26
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The Crotch posted:Orcs are literally the only creatures in the world that still get EXP from looting valuable objects. What? Where was that?
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Oct 19, 2017 03:27
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sleepy.eyes posted:What? Where was that? It's a joke.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:28
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MonsterEnvy posted:I did. I don't care much for the article.  MonsterEnvy posted:I am talking about the 5e adventures you rear end. Right, Tomb of Annihilation is the best racist adventure they've put out yet.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:30
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MonsterEnvy posted:I blame Reene for posting that stupid article and starting us down this path. Are you loving kidding me. Actually, no, I take it all back. gently caress you and the horse you rode in on.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:33
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MonsterEnvy posted:I know. I blame Reene for posting that stupid article and starting us down this path. I too, dislike someone for posting an article critiquing the 5th edition of Dungeons and Dragons in the 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons thread where posters discuss 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons, causing a discussion to happen of 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons' content.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:35
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Serf posted:
You have not read the adventure so judging something as racist just because of an article rubs me the wrong way. That article itself mainly was talking about chult stuff before Tomb of Annihilation. While at the same time it's somehow tricked people into thinking that hostile Jungles, lost cities, and witches are racist.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:36
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NachtSieger posted:I too, dislike someone for posting an article critiquing the 5th edition of Dungeons and Dragons in the 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons thread where posters discuss 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons, causing a discussion to happen of 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons' content. It was not critiquing 5th D&D. It was critiquing Chult.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:Are you loving kidding me. Yes I am kidding you.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:38
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well, I guess it's good that the thread consensus on race isn't hypocritical. y'all truly thing it's best if the various races are all culturally humans with different starting stats that doesn't excuse the chultan stuff or using racist iconography for monsters though mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 03:38
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MonsterEnvy posted:You have not read the adventure so judging something as racist just because of an article rubs me the wrong way. I was a little skeptical at first. After all, WotC is staffed by some real nincompoops at the moment, but surely all that progressivism they'd been into recently would have helped them create a better product right? Nope. The Nanny Pu'Pu picture was a pretty big indicator that the article was right, and on further inspection, they really do know what's up.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:39
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Serf posted:I was a little skeptical at first. After all, WotC is staffed by some real nincompoops at the moment, but surely all that progressivism they'd been into recently would have helped them create a better product right? Nanny Pu'Pu is a loving witch. And on further inspection you don't know poo poo. The product is good and you are fighting with me about this purely cause you want to irritate me.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:42
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Can't yall argue about this poo poo somewhere else?
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Oct 19, 2017 03:43
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MonsterEnvy posted:Nanny Pu'Pu is a loving witch. And on further inspection you don't know poo poo. The product is good and you are fighting with me about this purely cause you want to irritate me. So you're saying that because she's a witch its okay that they drew her as a racist caricature? Interesting tactic.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:44
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MonsterEnvy posted:Nanny Pu'Pu is a loving witch. some kind of...doctor-witch, perhaps?
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Oct 19, 2017 03:44
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Serf posted:So you're saying that because she's a witch its okay that they drew her as a racist caricature? Interesting tactic. Brother Entropy posted:some kind of...doctor-witch, perhaps? Which is a thing that loving existed anyway.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:46
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MonsterEnvy posted:Which is a thing that loving existed anyway. You sure about that?
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Oct 19, 2017 03:47
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MonsterEnvy posted:It was not critiquing 5th D&D. It was critiquing Chult. It's slamming 5e through its inclusion of Chult, a historically extremely racist setting element that has not been changed to not being racist despite words being printed and promises being made about being progressive. You DO know that ToA is a 5th edition product, right, and that Chult isn't some kind of far off untouchable glorious idea seed that sprang fully formed from someone's forehead without any human input?
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Oct 19, 2017 03:51
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MonsterEnvy posted:Missed the line about Chultan language that is my mistake. Of all the people to accuse others of not reading things
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Oct 19, 2017 03:53
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btw this game absolutely deserves to be looked at under this kind of microscope when wotc's d&d department is still trying to push the idea that they're actually improving on representation and inclusiveness
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Oct 19, 2017 04:01
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MonsterEnvy posted:Which is a thing that loving existed anyway. mastershakeman posted:well, I guess it's good that the thread consensus on race isn't hypocritical. y'all truly thing it's best if the various races are all culturally humans with different starting stats 
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Oct 19, 2017 04:10
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MonsterEnvy posted:The product is good and you are fighting with me about this purely cause you want to irritate me. People are pointing out that the racist product is racist just to annoy you. That's definitely what's happening you massive loving baby.
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Oct 19, 2017 04:11
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God you really will defend this broken loving game against anything, won't you? Are you Mike Mearls? What the gently caress is wrong with you.
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Oct 19, 2017 04:14
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AlphaDog posted:People are pointing out that the racist product is racist just to annoy you. That's definitely what's happening you massive loving baby. Just him. He showed it off when he ignored my post and just insulted me at one point.
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Oct 19, 2017 04:19
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Everyone is actually directly insulting you now, you insufferable apologist.
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Oct 19, 2017 04:23
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