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Koalas March posted:I am genuinely curious about how many posters here would be cool with reparations if it were ever legitimately on the table. Would support if it looked anything like what Ta-Nehisi Coates laid out in his peiece on reparations. I would not support a token effort with no real reparations behind it. I would also like to make sure it can't be ripped away as soon as a GOP majority was in place.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:26
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Reparations as described by TNC are absolutely essential. But I've posted before that I wouldn't call them reparations and they shouldn't be limited to black communities. There is really no basis to suspect a single poster itt would vote for the GOP over the Dems over reparations of all things.
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Oct 19, 2017 01:57
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Majorian posted:Well, first of all, I never said that nobody was making that criticism. Secondly, you were the one who implied that the reason why people here dislike Brazile was because of her stance on Russia (also I'm still laughing at "colliding" with Russia). You were incorrect about that, and if you had read the posts you were whining about, you'd understand that. Two posters literally said the reason they don't like Brazile is her focus on Russia. You claim to have read and understood their posts. You summarized them and noted they both criticized her focus on Russia. Like, what?
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Oct 19, 2017 02:02
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Koalas March posted:I am genuinely curious about how many posters here would be cool with reparations if it were ever legitimately on the table. I'm keeping my ps4.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:35
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Mr Hootington posted:I'm keeping my ps4. you would
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Oct 19, 2017 02:36
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Koalas March posted:you would Ok then. I have a very important fallout 4 save on it.
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Oct 19, 2017 02:37
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We're gonna bring back the brotherhood of steel folks, and they are going to be bigots again
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Oct 19, 2017 03:16
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A major component of reparations policy is the unification of gaming. No consoles but PlayStation. Nintendo makes games for PlayStation now and Xbone is illegal.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:32
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JeffersonClay posted:Two posters literally said the reason they don't like Brazile is her focus on Russia. Yup, and you took that to mean that that's the only reason why leftists dislike Brazile. That was a very foolish assumption on your part.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:36
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Koalas March posted:I am genuinely curious about how many posters here would be cool with reparations if it were ever legitimately on the table. i'd be fine with it, though i'd be extremely worried in the current economic setup of the US that reparations money would be immediately stolen back from black people via the methods that are currently used to steal their wealth at the moment i think we need to fix poo poo like civil forfeiture first
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Oct 19, 2017 03:53
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Koalas March posted:I also wonder how many people would leave the DNC if they backed it. it'd definitely get rid of the clintonite wing
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Oct 19, 2017 04:03
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A lot of white folks would get triggered so hard if reparations got momentum, including low-interest voters. Most white people just don't see racism as a real, present-day problem and would immediately say "what about my problems, my grandpa was poor, Romans fed Christians to lions so where's my reparations"  /  White fragility will prevent any headway on this for at least two generations, probably longer. Maybe this is overly pessimistic and it gets treated as just another partisan issue since GOP has a lock on racial resentment anyway-- but There Is Always More And It Is Always Worse. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 04:25
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Condiv posted:i'd be fine with it, though i'd be extremely worried in the current economic setup of the US that reparations money would be immediately stolen back from black people via the methods that are currently used to steal their wealth at the moment
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Oct 19, 2017 04:25
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yronic heroism posted:A lot of white folks would get triggered so hard if reparations got momentum, including low-interest voters. Most white people just don't see racism as a real, present-day problem and would immediately say "what about my problems, my grandpa was poor, Romans fed Christians to lions so where's my reparations" / jesus christ you're whiny as hell. you could discuss reparations without turning it into "people don't like me "
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Oct 19, 2017 04:30
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Condiv posted:jesus christ you're whiny as hell. you could discuss reparations without turning it into "people don't like me FWIW I actually edited that last part out before you responded (edit: or seeing you responded, anyway) since it did not seem necessary thinking it over. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 04:33
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yronic heroism posted:FWIW I actually edited that last part out before you responded since it did not seem necessary thinking it over. Oh, word? So you're saying we shouldn't go by the original post if a poster edits it to be less caustic? loving hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 
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Oct 19, 2017 04:35
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Edit: nvm, not important
yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 04:42
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To get back on topic:The Muppets On PCP posted:it'd definitely get rid of the clintonite wing I don't think Donna Brazile would leave over it. It's not clear who you think the Clintonite wing is though.
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Oct 19, 2017 04:52
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If we can chat topical video games: anyone pre-order the new Wolfenstein?
yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 04:59
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I'm grad student with no free time so I've just been playing Souls game non stop for the past two years. I borrowed the newest Wolfenstein from the library and it was pretty ok.
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Oct 19, 2017 05:17
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Majorian posted:Yup, and you took that to mean that that's the only reason why leftists dislike Brazile. That was a very foolish assumption on your part. I never suggested it was the only reason, just that it was a dumb reason, which it is. I quoted you because the good democrat that you like, Maxine Waters, has also focused on Russia and in fact guarantees that Trump colluded.
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Oct 19, 2017 05:35
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JeffersonClay posted:I never suggested it was the only reason, just that it was a dumb reason, which it is. I quoted you because the good democrat that you like, Maxine Waters, has also focused on Russia and in fact guarantees that Trump colluded. Yes, and I've never denied that Trump colluded with Russia - in fact, I've been pretty unambiguous in stating that I believe he did. So no matter which way you try to spin this conversation, your argument doesn't make sense.
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Oct 19, 2017 06:01
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yronic heroism posted:I don't think Donna Brazile would leave over it. we'll have to agree to disagree on that point, infinitesimal as it may be
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Oct 19, 2017 06:14
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Reparations just seem like something where the capitalist classes would be scheming ways to steal every cent as soon as politicians even start seriously talking about it, with the police just being the most blatant about it. We've seen in the financial crisis that predatory capitalists (IE, most of them) disproportionately target minorities. Probably could be done right, but you'd need to at the very least reign in the police and the finance industry to have any lasting effect. Though I may be cynical on this; I keep thinking of the treatment of Aboriginal Australians, where the government generally does absolutely everything wrong on every level and then demonises them for accepting the welfare they do get. An organisation not acting in good faith will pervert the best intentions into a nightmare hellworld out of spite and greed.
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Oct 19, 2017 06:28
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yeah I guess if we do reparations in the context of a white supremacist state then it might not work out what to do, what to do Kilroy posted:the reparations are paid in the form of firearms and ammunition seized from white people
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Oct 19, 2017 06:54
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Just saying, much like Obamacare vs universal health care, it's something you want to make sure is done right rather than letting a government push through a half-assed unsustainable or compromised-to-death version and declare victory forever. As much as people bitch about how supposedly people pushing economic justice and social justice are irreconcilably in conflict, it seems whenever there's actual dialogue and some sharing of mutual interests (IE, bitching about/arguing with centrists who are insincere about both) it turns out there's extremely little if any real conflict even about methods, and even little about priorities. But then again, there's been a concerted effort by business interests, white supremacists (including literally the Klan) and conservatives to keep them apart, that's been very successful until now.
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Oct 19, 2017 07:23
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Additionally, I find it problematic that thsese people focus on Donna Brazil. While she isn't ideal she has a long career of public service that too many people just want to brush off because she was on team Clinton. She has earned her place in the party and trying to purge her or people like her indicates a desire to focus on ideological purity instead of coalition building. Here's a radical thought, maybe party positions shouldn't be treated like sinecures to be handed out to out-of-touch incompetents on the basis of them having a long career of failing upwards through the party hierarchy? You're literally back to arguing for poo poo that has been crippling the dems for decades because you value rewarding party loyalty over actually winning, which incidentally is the main reason why your lot get called out for being dumb. On a related note, this is also why the whole yelling a lot about Russia is so dumb. The only people who care enough about Russia to make it a decisive factor in their voting are middle and upper class liberals who will vote Dem anyway. Outside the political classes people certainly don't give a poo poo about it when compared to issues like putting food on the table or not dying because you have lovely insurance or not getting gunned down because you don't pass the paper bag test or any other reason that materially affects non-bourg people. So if the bad dems get their way and make the next elections all about Russia, they're once again shooting themselves in the foot. I guess this is also why people like JC incredulously demand answers as to why somebody could dare to be critical on the dumbass laser focus on Russia, because he's either incapable of getting that the dem establishment could possibly be bad at politics or mad that people can see this very obvious fact. Cerebral Bore fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 09:08
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So I read that Hill article posted a while back, and I was wondering why I was getting this sense of deja vu from skimming it. I think it's because it has quite a few similarities with this Bloomberg article detailing what the party has in mind for superdelegates.quote:The new members-at-large of the Democratic National Committee will vote on party rules and in 2020 will be convention delegates free to vote for a primary candidate of their choice. They include lobbyists for Venezuela’s national petroleum company and for the parent company of Fox News, according to a list obtained by Bloomberg News. At least three of the people worked for either Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders in 2016 while also casting ballots as superdelegates. quote:One of the lobbyists is Joanne Dowdell, who’s registered as a federal lobbyist for News Corp, the parent company of Fox News, where she’s senior vice president for global government affairs. Dowdell ran for New Hampshire’s House seat as a Democrat in 2012 and is a party donor. quote:A DNC aide who asked not to be identified defended including the lobbyists, saying they were all carry-overs from the last presidential election cycle and were renominated because of their service to the party.
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Oct 19, 2017 09:08
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Office Pig posted:So I read that Hill article posted a while back, and I was wondering why I was getting this sense of deja vu from skimming it. I think it's because it has quite a few similarities with this Bloomberg article detailing what the party has in mind for superdelegates. hmm the dems looked hard at 2016 and decided that they don't have to change anything at all to win how surprising
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Oct 19, 2017 09:24
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Rodatose posted:politicians who lived in times with different values are all going to be bad, that's why you try to focus on policies instead of emulating the person as a Great Man. this is true of everyone except comrade stalin
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Oct 19, 2017 09:25
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Cerebral Bore posted:On a related note, this is also why the whole yelling a lot about Russia is so dumb. The only people who care enough about Russia to make it a decisive factor in their voting are middle and upper class liberals who will vote Dem anyway. Outside the political classes people certainly don't give a poo poo about it when compared to issues like putting food on the table or not dying because you have lovely insurance or not getting gunned down because you don't pass the paper bag test or any other reason that materially affects non-bourg people. So if the bad dems get their way and make the next elections all about Russia, they're once again shooting themselves in the foot. I guess this is also why people like JC incredulously demand answers as to why somebody could dare to be critical on the dumbass laser focus on Russia, because he's either incapable of getting that the dem establishment could possibly be bad at politics or mad that people can see this very obvious fact. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MxtdXfiN8Q Nina Turner is pretty great, yo.
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Oct 19, 2017 09:37
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Cerebral Bore posted:On a related note, this is also why the whole yelling a lot about Russia is so dumb. The only people who care enough about Russia to make it a decisive factor in their voting are middle and upper class liberals who will vote Dem anyway. Outside the political classes people certainly don't give a poo poo about it when compared to issues like putting food on the table or not dying because you have lovely insurance or not getting gunned down because you don't pass the paper bag test or any other reason that materially affects non-bourg people. So if the bad dems get their way and make the next elections all about Russia, they're once again shooting themselves in the foot. I guess this is also why people like JC incredulously demand answers as to why somebody could dare to be critical on the dumbass laser focus on Russia, because he's either incapable of getting that the dem establishment could possibly be bad at politics or mad that people can see this very obvious fact.
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Oct 19, 2017 09:50
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Inescapable Duck posted:As much as people bitch about how supposedly people pushing economic justice and social justice are irreconcilably in conflict the only people who think that are the same ones whose concept of social justice starts and ends at hiring more women ceos
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Oct 19, 2017 10:27
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JeffersonClay posted:Counterpoint: Maxine waters. This is not so much a counterpoint as it is a hilarious demostration of the centrist instinct to duck behind the first available black woman because you desperately need a shield from criticism you know you have no good answer to.
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Oct 19, 2017 10:55
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Koalas March posted:I am genuinely curious about how many posters here would be cool with reparations if it were ever legitimately on the table. Absolutely. I think they're a necessary part of America addressing its stupid past. Hell even from a practical standpoint its a big economic boost.
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Oct 19, 2017 13:04
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Reparations would stop any forward momentum on fixing continued conscious and unconscious racism within the United States and only acts as a moral balm for those who desperately wish to have the issue dealt with. There's also the possibility of it creating stratification within the AA community and within overall minority groups within the US and opens up questions of other races being offered reparations and who pays for it. There are an overwhelming amount of issues that need addressing and a quick payoff solves none of these.
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Oct 19, 2017 13:19
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Well yeah if you strawman reparations into that Dave Chappelle skit where every black person gets a bag of cash it sounds pretty dumb.
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Oct 19, 2017 13:42
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VitalSigns posted:Well yeah if you strawman reparations into that Dave Chappelle skit where every black person gets a bag of cash it sounds pretty dumb. I think it would be useful that reparations would come in the form of long-term assist to African-American communities including programs for direct federal employment (think WPA) and subsidy payments to local schools. In addition, I would say it is fair to say poor African-American communities may need greater/long-term help than even other poor communities based on continued racism that targets them directly. Also, this could be coupled with the Justice Department direct long-term monitoring of police departments that have a history of violence against Black communities. That said, I generally prefer spending that is focused on building communities first than direct payments, and it is also why I am skeptical of a UBI as a cure-all. A giant part of the economy is essentially funded by trying to claw cash out of the hands of the poor.
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Oct 19, 2017 14:06
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The Kingfish posted:I'm grad student with no free time so I've just been playing Souls game non stop for the past two years. it sounds like you have free time to me, rear end in a top hat! im not jealous or anything
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Oct 19, 2017 16:11
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Inescapable Duck posted:Reparations just seem like something where the capitalist classes would be scheming ways to steal every cent as soon as politicians even start seriously talking about it, with the police just being the most blatant about it. We've seen in the financial crisis that predatory capitalists (IE, most of them) disproportionately target minorities. Probably could be done right, but you'd need to at the very least reign in the police and the finance industry to have any lasting effect. Well by this logic any kind of welfare state can be framed as pointless because "the rich will just steal it back."
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Oct 19, 2017 16:27
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