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Ogmius815 posted:Yeah those cables being made public put people in danger you moron. Weren't the prosecution unable to show anyone was harmed as a result.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:09
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withak posted:Send Wall Street to the guillotine. Convert The Bull into a Brazen Bull and make some long pork burritos.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:11
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VitalSigns posted:Weren't the prosecution unable to show anyone was harmed as a result. Ah, but you see, someone could have been. Of course the simple solution to this whole thing is that maybe the US just shouldn't have been committing war crimes, providing nothing to leak in the first place.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:12
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Oh Snapple! posted:Ah, but you see, someone could have been. It's true, if they didn't have anything to hide, then what are they afraid of?
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Oct 19, 2017 18:19
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VitalSigns posted:Weren't the prosecution unable to show anyone was harmed as a result. "Drive as drunk as you want, as long as no one actually gets struck and killed (that we know about and can prove as a result with near certainty) you are literally a hero."
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Oct 19, 2017 18:21
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ClancyEverafter posted:It's true, if they didn't have anything to hide, then what are they afraid of?
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Oct 19, 2017 18:23
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Governments are people, my friend.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:23
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yronic heroism posted:"Drive as drunk as you want, as long as no one actually gets struck and killed (that we know about and can prove as a result with near certainty) you are literally a hero." Blowing the whistle on crimes is not drunken driving you phenomenally silly person. If libs cared even half as much about illegal state-sponsored murder as yall screech about someone reading some harmless cables there wouldn't be coverups of war crimes that need exposing.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:27
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Amusingly, Hillary Clinton has nothing but harsh words for Snowden, who vetted the documents he gave to a journalist, and soft conciliatory ones re: Manning, who firehoused everything in sight to a rapist Pepe. So by the transitive property of Hillary Is Wrong...
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Oct 19, 2017 18:29
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Ogmius815 posted:Yeah those cables being made public put people in danger you moron. Good.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:30
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VitalSigns posted:Blowing the whistle on crimes is not drunken driving you phenomenally silly person. An analogy? Why I never! Still waiting to hear why civilians had to get doxxed by a rapist Pepe in order for the war crime video to be released.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:32
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JeffersonClay posted:Mental illness doesn't need to explain the entirety of Manning's decision making for it to be important. Like maybe sans major depression Manning just leaks the war crime video and not a bunch of sensitive diplomatic cables.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:33
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steinrokkan posted:Good. Why do you love rapist Pepes so much?
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Oct 19, 2017 18:33
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Once again a right wing nationalistic troll attempts to crucify a whistleblower on completely insubstantial, trumped up charges.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:34
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yronic heroism posted:Why do you love rapist Pepes so much? Have you heard that Assange metabolizes oxygen? You wouldn't want to be caught doing something he is known for, right?
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Oct 19, 2017 18:35
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steinrokkan posted:Once again a right wing nationalistic troll attempts to crucify a whistleblower on completely insubstantial, trumped up charges. Uh no the rape charges were absolutely not trumped up. Sorry you apparently love a rapist because he happens to hate the same politicians as you.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:37
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http://thehill.com/homenews/house/356194-ohio-republican-announces-plans-to-leave-congressquote:Rep. Pat Tiberi (R-Ohio) announced Thursday that he is leaving Congress before the end of his term to lead the Ohio Business Roundtable. If he's leaving to run a business roundtable that's an enormously bad sign for Republicans. Ways and Means is one of the most powerful committees in Congress and he's a senior member, so the internal polling must be really loving nasty if he's willing to announce retirement this early.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:43
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I will admit, suggesting that Manning whistleblew because of trans stress is an impressive way to marry social leftism to nationalism/foreign conservatism
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Oct 19, 2017 18:48
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https://twitter.com/rjsmithcpi/status/921053608292085761
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Oct 19, 2017 18:51
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twodot posted:In what possible sense could this ever be important? Do you have a time machine? Do you think we need whistleblowers that an Internet poster has diagnosed with major depression to illustrate that treating depression is good? If you're trying to change perspectives in a culture resistant to modern conceptions of mental illness, like the US army, pointing to examples where their toxic culture caused them harm that could have been avoided is an effective tactic.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:59
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VitalSigns posted:Blowing the whistle on crimes committed by an organ you work for is not an illegal search you ninny. In addition to this, that's not even what I was saying: that if the US wasn't committing war crimes, the leak likely never happens.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:06
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JeffersonClay posted:Mental illness doesn't need to explain the entirety of Manning's decision making for it to be important. Like maybe sans major depression Manning just leaks the war crime video and not a bunch of sensitive diplomatic cables. This is still just maliciously insinuating that maybe she wasn't in her right mind in an attempt to discredit her. If she uses that argument herself it's one thing, but it doesn't set a good precedent to use mental illness (or, even worse, being trans) to insinuate that someone didn't have full agency over their actions. This isn't to say that mental illness necessarily didn't influence her actions, but it isn't your place (or Joy Reid's) to speculate about that (especially when there's a transparent political motivation for doing so, as is the case here).
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Oct 19, 2017 19:07
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JeffersonClay posted:If you're trying to change perspectives in a culture resistant to modern conceptions of mental illness, like the US army, pointing to examples where their toxic culture caused them harm that could have been avoided is an effective tactic.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:10
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Not sure if this is the best place for it, but as an elevator pitch for socialist/leftist ideas, how is: "Like if everyone gets a single share of stock with dividends and voting for a company that owns everything." ? JeffersonClay posted:If you're trying to change perspectives in a culture resistant to modern conceptions of mental illness, like the US army, pointing to examples where their toxic culture caused them harm that could have been avoided is an effective tactic.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:11
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Rockopolis posted:Not sure if this is the best place for it, but as an elevator pitch for socialist/leftist ideas, how is: Would this share be transferrable?
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Oct 19, 2017 19:13
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Rockopolis posted:Not sure if this is the best place for it, but as an elevator pitch for socialist/leftist ideas, how is: Shareholder democracy hasn't really had enough success to make this a good pitch.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:16
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Ogmius815 posted:Yeah those cables being made public put people in danger you moron. no they didn't and your government has publically admitted as much
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Oct 19, 2017 19:19
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They've admitted that they can't prove a causal link to anyone dying, to the standards of evidence required to support a conviction, which is a very different thing. It's like insisting OJ was innocent because he was never convicted. IDK why y'all keep insisting that the people killed in the gun camera Manning leaked were murdered. The journalists were unarmed, but the men they were with were carrying AK-47s, which you can see in the video, and an RPG-7 which was recovered by the soldiers on the ground. Manning was lashing out, pure and simple. The fact that she chose to leak the diplomatic cables, which contained no evidence of criminal activity and served solely to compromise candid diplomatic discussions, is solid evidence of that. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 19, 2017 19:23
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the overlap between "really mad about bernie bros" and "anti-chelsea manning" is absolutely hysterical
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Oct 19, 2017 19:25
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Dead Reckoning posted:They've admitted that they can't prove a causal link to anyone dying, to the standards of evidence required to support a conviction, which is a very different thing. It's like insisting OJ was innocent because he was never convicted. They have the same rights to those weapons that you have. So either accept that they were murdered, or shut the hell up about your precious guns.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:25
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Chelsea Manning is cool and good and if you think otherwise you are wrong and bad. Assange is straight garbage though.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:27
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Dead Reckoning posted:IDK why y'all keep insisting that the people killed in the gun camera Manning leaked were murdered. The journalists were unarmed, but the men they were with were carrying AK-47s, which you can see in the video, and an RPG-7 which was recovered by the soldiers on the ground. quote:Manning was lashing out, pure and simple. The fact that she chose to leak the diplomatic cables, which contained no evidence of criminal activity and served solely to compromise candid diplomatic discussions, is solid evidence of that.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:27
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Dead Reckoning posted:They've admitted that they can't prove a causal link to anyone dying, to the standards of evidence required to support a conviction, which is a very different thing. It's like insisting OJ was innocent because he was never convicted. oh look it's dead reckoning defending soldiers mowing down people driving a van to get wounded people out of a war zone! who would have seen this coming! gently caress off you degenerate piece of poo poo
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Oct 19, 2017 19:28
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Ytlaya posted:This is still just maliciously insinuating that maybe she wasn't in her right mind in an attempt to discredit her. Her legal defense team did make that argument, although it's one she rejects now. Mental illness isn't some binary state of crazy/sane, and it's pretty plausible that all or nothing thinking associated with major depression led her to leak everything she could get her hands on--with negative results for her legal defense--rather than just the stuff she could plausibly defend as whistleblowing. twodot posted:Sure, if you were talking to a US Army General who wanted to defund mental health, bringing this up might make some amount of tactical sense. How can it possibly be important here? Everyone here is already in favor of reforming toxic military culture without needing to deny our fellow human beings' agency. We're discussing a tweet from Joy Ann Reid that was in response to a dude talking about trans people being security threats for the military.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:28
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JeffersonClay posted:We're discussing a tweet from Joy Ann Reid that was in response to a dude talking about trans people being security threats for the military. edit: Like you said this: JeffersonClay posted:If you're trying to change perspectives in a culture resistant to modern conceptions of mental illness, like the US army, pointing to examples where their toxic culture caused them harm that could have been avoided is an effective tactic.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:30
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twodot posted:So not a transcript of a meeting with a US Army General that's seeking to defund mental health? This entire line of dialogue sprung from "JAR is transphobic," which I think is true but in a passive way, i.e. she is not intentionally or maliciously transphobic but holds transphobic views out of callousness. Which is not good but not what the headline makes it out to be, so to speak.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:32
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Lightning Knight posted:This entire line of dialogue sprung from "JAR is transphobic," which I think is true but in a passive way, i.e. she is not intentionally or maliciously transphobic but holds transphobic views out of callousness. Which is not good but not what the headline makes it out to be, so to speak.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:36
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The most hosed up part about this is that the main reason for their outbreaks is because of overworked staff. They pay okay per person, but they don't have enough people on every shift on average to really keep up with the demand. Chipotle's actually pretty good to its employees, mandatory breaks and all that, plus optional health and dental if you wanna pay into it, pretty basic plans, though. The big issue is the amount of work the average chipotle employee performs is loving absurd. This is 100% a case of "I'd love to see one of these dumb loving bankers try to work even a half shift at their local chipotle without losing their god damned mind." Source: I spent 6 months as a crew member working prep. I still eat there, though. I'm okay with human suffering because I put in my time and there's nothing gross about what they do to make the food. (except the mild, because tomatoes aren't cut fresh in house, they come in prediced packages and I won't touch that poo poo if I can help it because I have no idea where they come from or how fresh they are, but they're only used in the pico so w/e, plus pico is basic bitch poo poo, get corn and tomatillo green next time, add some hot if you like it hotter)
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Oct 19, 2017 19:37
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twodot posted:I get that, but JeffersonClay is insisting both that 1) They can trace Manning's motivations in a way that removes the need to acknowledge her agency and 2) That's it really important users on this forum acknowledge that ability. We don't need to discuss Manning specifically if all we want to talk about is the relative lovely-ness of callously denying someone's agency as opposed to being actively hateful. If JeffersonClay cared about the relative lovely-ness angle, they have no reason to insist on continuing to post about Manning. I think I misunderstood your previous post, but yeah I agree with this.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:37
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:The most hosed up part about this is that the main reason for their outbreaks is because of overworked staff. They pay okay per person, but they don't have enough people on every shift on average to really keep up with the demand. Chipotle's actually pretty good to its employees, mandatory breaks and all that, plus optional health and dental if you wanna pay into it, pretty basic plans, though. The big issue is the amount of work the average chipotle employee performs is loving absurd. This is 100% a case of "I'd love to see one of these dumb loving bankers try to work even a half shift at their local chipotle without losing their god damned mind." Source: I spent 6 months as a crew member working prep. I legitimately don't know how they're expected to get staffing costs under 27%. I would assume a majority of their costs are paying their staff; there's no way overhead or ingredient sourcing can cost that much.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:41
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