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Samurai Sanders posted:Does anyone know what makes the PS store slow down to a trickle sometimes, but not game downloads etc? Also, only on the PS4, not the website and stuff. This infuriates me. I find that doing the connection test or rebooting the console fixes it. So frequently the store hangs at the payment screen and I have no idea if it went through or not. Why do you make it so hard for me to give you money, Sony?
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Oct 19, 2017 15:44
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Quantum of Phallus posted:I, for one, love using Sony's patented "puzzle dials from the Da Vinci Code" method of inputting text. This is especially baffling when the DS4 already has a far superior, but criminally underused, sixaxis motion-keyboard you can type with using the controller (I was sceptical at first, but it's actually surprisingly good).
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Oct 19, 2017 15:45
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Even if the Joel is Dead fan theories aren't true it seems likely that he'll be written out of much of the story through some other contrivance.
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Oct 19, 2017 15:45
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ImpAtom posted:It's a pretty interesting situation honest. I know the conversation diverged into TLoU talk, but I'd like to discuss PoP 2008 a bit more. I kind of disagree. I think player agency works well with the idea of sacrifice. If it had been a cutscene, then I think I'd understand the dislike for the ending a bit more, because it would be the game that undoes what you spent hours doing. It doesn't go full "Nier" and delete your save file, but it's still pretty cool that you, the player, have to make the sacrifice. It really highlights the fact that not only did you condemn the world to be ruled by an evil wizard, probably, but also that the Prince did not grow or learn and is really loving selfish. I also like the endings to TLoU and Spec Ops: The Line. Even if there's no real choice, the fact that the game makes you do something adds weight to it. It's MUCH easier to realize that what Joel/the Prince/Walker is doing is hosed up if I'm forced to do it myself than if I'm shown a cutscene of my character doing it. If there was a choice at the end of PoP, one ending would clearly be better than the other, so I, as a player, would most probably choose to leave the tree and not save Elika, but while it's still, IMO, a better ending than the DLC's, it's not as interesting narratively as the real, pre-DLC ending we got. The game isn't trying to say that I'm a selfish rear end in a top hat, it's trying to make me truly realize that the Prince is one, so forcing me into a decision still works, in my opinion. Obviously, this is just my view on things. I'm just trying to explain why I love the original ending and really hate the DLC's, not trying to convince anyone that they should like it.
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Oct 19, 2017 15:51
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I didn't think the way SpecOps handled their ending was the best because Walker is berated that he could have stopped at any time, mannnnn except that no, you really couldn't unless you just turned off the game before the white phosphorous mission and never loaded it up again. TLOU was fine because Joel was an established character making a very in-character choice and I never viewed that game as an expression of the player's own moral agency.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:01
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MZ posted:This is especially baffling when the DS4 already has a far superior, but criminally underused, sixaxis motion-keyboard you can type with using the controller (I was sceptical at first, but it's actually surprisingly good). Yep! Or, they could just use... the normal PS4 text input like nearly every other text field on the console. The store is such a piece of poo poo.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:12
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exquisite tea posted:I didn't think the way SpecOps handled their ending was the best because Walker is berated that he could have stopped at any time, mannnnn except that no, you really couldn't unless you just turned off the game before the white phosphorous mission and never loaded it up again. TLOU was fine because Joel was an established character making a very in-character choice and I never viewed that game as an expression of the player's own moral agency. Eh, I dunno. I feel like in the case of Spec Ops there's a bit of meta commentary there about gamers wanting to play shooter games and kill thousands of dudes, so in a sense it's a perfectly reasonable decision to close the game if you don't want to get called out on it. It worked for me but I can definitely see why it's divisive.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:15
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Spec Ops rather famously offered the option to abandon the mission at one point in prerelease builds, but they took it out because everyone chose it.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:18
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exquisite tea posted:I didn't think the way SpecOps handled their ending was the best because Walker is berated that he could have stopped at any time, mannnnn except that no, you really couldn't unless you just turned off the game before the white phosphorous mission and never loaded it up again. TLOU was fine because Joel was an established character making a very in-character choice and I never viewed that game as an expression of the player's own moral agency. Yeah, I kind of agree and I hesitated to put it on my list, especially since I feel like the intent of Spec Ops was to make the player go "Oh my god I'm the one making a game out of war!" at the end, except that it made a lot of players go "Well, I couldn't do anything else..." instead. It might not work 100% as a commentary on player desensitization to violence, but taken as as a simpler, classic critique of war games, it still works, and it works better by having the players commit the war crimes, even if it's not a choice.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:18
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I loved Spec Ops but the whole "you can turn off at any time" is so arthouse that it kind of rings hollow. It definitely is bad when people start bringing up the "oh it's a mediocre shooter on purpose" idea.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:20
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Sakurazuka posted:I thought GT Sport was just an extended demo because the real game isn't coming out for another 5 years like Prologue but it's full price??? GT Sport is a series reboot. The old Gran Turismo with its car collecting and extensive single-player has been replaced by a game that's focused around online racing. GTS is the first online racer I've really liked, with a great gameplay loop and its systems in place to get rid of the ramming garbage that exists in almost every other online racer.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:26
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CordlessPen posted:I know the conversation diverged into TLoU talk, but I'd like to discuss PoP 2008 a bit more. This is sort of an ongoing problem in game design. The idea of being forced to do something you don't want to do by mechanics can work but it tends to have to be really well done to hit a large number of players. One of the most infamous examples is probably shooting The Boss in MGS3 which is absolutely a mandatory thing where you have to pull the trigger but it hits people to have to do it at all and makes the scene more memorable. It can work very well but the more divorced the player is from the character the harder it can be to make it work. This obviously isn't universal and for some people the act of doing the 'foolish' or 'wrong' as the character but against the player's will can be effective or even more effective than if they agree with it. I think it's basically a gamble beyond a certain point and PoP ended up losing the gamble. A lot of it depends on the time and place and audience.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:26
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I thought it was cool how in TWD1 Lee doesn't have to choke that dude to death at the end, but I was so caught up in the emotional intensity of the moment that I didn't even know I could let go. That I thought was a great example of inviting the player to participate in something they might not choose to do under normal circumstances by concealing mechanics.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:33
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exquisite tea posted:I thought it was cool how in TWD1 Lee doesn't have to choke that dude to death at the end, but I was so caught up in the emotional intensity of the moment that I didn't even know I could let go. That I thought was a great example of inviting the player to participate in something they might not choose to do under normal circumstances by concealing mechanics. God of War 3 actually has a similar example where when you finally get to Zeus at the end and finish him off, Kratos starts beating him to death and the beating lasts as long as the player smashes the button. Considering it comes at the end of the big climactic boss fight and all that it's pretty effective to make use of an adrenaline rush to make players pound and pound until they realize the fight is over and has been for a while.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:45
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Does Hellblade become a little less repetetive? I've been running through fire like five times in a row now. The voices are a pretty neat effect, at least.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:53
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Renoistic posted:Does Hellblade become a little less repetetive? I've been running through fire like five times in a row now. The voices are a pretty neat effect, at least. That's the only place where you have to do fire runs and you're almost finished with it.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:54
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Renoistic posted:Does Hellblade become a little less repetetive? I've been running through fire like five times in a row now. The voices are a pretty neat effect, at least. Stick with it. Great little game.
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Oct 19, 2017 17:00
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Arthouse or not, I stopped playing The Line after the WP Scene. I don't care that it's forced, so is a lot of gameplay in any given game, and I found the scene impactul nonetheless. It's also why I stopped playing SotC after my first Collossus - I understand what's at stake here, but I just couldn't continue, not at that price. Maybe I'm just a wimp, and it obviously helped that The Line was a PS+ game, so cost was no issue.
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Oct 19, 2017 17:04
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I stopped playing Mario after I jumped on the first toadstool. What god am I to take a life?
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Oct 19, 2017 17:11
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haveblue posted:That's the only place where you have to do fire runs and you're almost finished with it. Thanks. I just hope the next gate doesn't involve running through a storm seven times.
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Oct 19, 2017 17:11
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Quantum of Phallus posted:I stopped playing Mario after I jumped on the first toadstool. Excuse me, you'll find that Mario does not canonically kill Goombas. They mention having headaches after he jumps on them but nothing more. He does, however, murder the poo poo out of Bowser and force his son to rely on necromancy to bring him back. 
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Oct 19, 2017 17:18
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The manual of Super Mario Bros. states that "King Koopa" turned the inhabitants of the Mushroom Kingdom into bricks. So canonically Mario is killing innocents when he punches out those bricks. If you choose to live in delusion you can pretend that he's actually freeing them like Sonic frees the animals from inside the robots
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Oct 19, 2017 17:23
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:The manual of Super Mario Bros. states that "King Koopa" turned the inhabitants of the Mushroom Kingdom into bricks. Or maybe each piece of brick becomes a clone or asexual offspring of the original bricked person.
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Oct 19, 2017 17:25
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Godzilla07 posted:GT Sport is a series reboot. The old Gran Turismo with its car collecting and extensive single-player has been replaced by a game that's focused around online racing. GTS is the first online racer I've really liked, with a great gameplay loop and its systems in place to get rid of the ramming garbage that exists in almost every other online racer. Can you turn off voice comms so you run no risk of hearing anyone else in the game when you're racing? Because then I could just as well pretend the other cars are AI-driven. I do feel kinda bummed out I missed on the old-style GT because that would have been my jam.
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Oct 19, 2017 17:27
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haveblue posted:Spec Ops rather famously offered the option to abandon the mission at one point in prerelease builds, but they took it out because everyone chose it. "This sucks I'm gonna go play a game where I can shoot brown people and get patted on the back for it >: ("
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Oct 19, 2017 17:44
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Mario was dead to me the second they retconned all the koopa kids to not actually be Bowser's children.
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Oct 19, 2017 17:52
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:The manual of Super Mario Bros. states that "King Koopa" turned the inhabitants of the Mushroom Kingdom into bricks. Nintendo recently said that Mario isn't killing anyone when he punches the bricks, and is actually restoring them back to their original bodies.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:08
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He is repeatedly punching Yoshi tho.
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Oct 19, 2017 18:11
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Samuringa posted:He is repeatedly punching Yoshi tho. Yoshi should stop provoking him
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Oct 19, 2017 18:21
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I mean, you do have the choice to stop playing Spec Ops, the whole Big Message is a critique of violent video games glorifying war, not war itself. Conceptually the moral that you had a choice is still valid when the choice was not to play, the message is pretty heavy-handedly being addressed to the player, not Walker. Whether that's hacky and stupid is totally fair, but I feel like saying it's a flaw that there's no in-game choice to stop killing is kind of missing the point
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Oct 19, 2017 18:57
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It's hacky and stupid because the ending is predicated on a moral framework that is never offered as an option to the player, yet presupposes their own agency in making that choice. If that account of SpecOps first offering the player the option to abandon the mission is true then it's even worse because many people, even most would have rightfully chosen to leave, but then that probably wouldn't have created the ultra-cool "you were the real monster all along, mannnn" effect its developers intended, so it was later removed. I don't think "just turn the game off" is a good solution in the case of SpecOps. Like I could print a book where half the pages are blank and I berated the reader by saying how dumb they were to keep reading, they could just put it down whenever they wanted but it wouldn't be a very effective piece of literature.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:09
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Mandrel posted:I mean, you do have the choice to stop playing Spec Ops, the whole Big Message is a critique of violent video games glorifying war, not war itself. Conceptually the moral that you had a choice is still valid when the choice was not to play, the message is pretty heavy-handedly being addressed to the player, not Walker. You can't offer that option because it pisses dumb nerds off something fierce.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:12
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Quantum of Phallus posted:I, for one, love using Sony's patented "puzzle dials from the Da Vinci Code" method of inputting text. best part about this is that it used it be way more intuitive and then they changed it to this godawful thing
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Oct 19, 2017 19:20
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exquisite tea posted:It's hacky and stupid because the ending is predicated on a moral framework that is never offered as an option to the player, yet presupposes their own agency in making that choice. If that account of SpecOps first offering the player the option to abandon the mission is true then it's even worse because many people, even most would have rightfully chosen to leave, but then that probably wouldn't have created the ultra-cool "you were the real monster all along, mannnn" effect its developers intended, so it was later removed. I mean, it is offered as an option to the player though. You're the player, nobody held a gun to your head and made you play the game. The point they were trying to make is that these games are violent hero power fantasies and everything about it down to the not at all subtle loading screen hints is rubbing in your face what a poo poo you are for liking this. I guess it is a lot like your book example, but if the point of that was that was some subversive books Are Dumb And You're Dumb For Reading Them But You'll Do It Anyway message and then you read it anyway I guess it is effective in accomplishing what it set out to do as a commentary. It's not an effective piece of literature, but it would be pretty obvious that it wasn't intended to be, and we would fairly view it as some kind of dumb experimental pop art piece. That's what I'm saying about Spec Ops, we can totally argue that being hacky gently caress You pop art is basic and not that compelling (like your book), but since that's what it set out to be, the lack of an in-narrative choice isn't a narrative fault, it's a feature (whether that was what they had in mind earlier in development or not). It's cohesive with the goal of the thing, which may be a stupid goal that didn't work for you, but it is what it is
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Oct 19, 2017 19:28
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exquisite tea posted:I don't think "just turn the game off" is a good solution in the case of SpecOps. Like I could print a book where half the pages are blank and I berated the reader by saying how dumb they were to keep reading, they could just put it down whenever they wanted but it wouldn't be a very effective piece of literature. I didn't play SpecOps, but it sounds like a better analogy is a Tom Clancy book that berates you at the end for seeking out a trashy jingoistic story. I can't say I'd take issue with such a book.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:33
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To be fair I feel like all media that presupposes some moral fault in its viewer is not all that effective, because everybody comes at something differently. I played SpecOps not because I love squad-based milsims, I actually find them totally distasteful, but because it was recommended to me by people praising its story. I'm sure many people who might otherwise never play a game of this type came at it from the same angle. So already the assumption that I'm playing the game because I simply cannot get enough killing middle eastern people is flawed, but I'm invested in the story, and I just want to see how the narrative is going to play out. "The message" as it was presented just came off as didactic and weird because the player is clearly being held responsible for Walker's own morality when there was no option to express any deviance from it in the game except at the very end. "You don't get it, do you" the game screams at me having very much already gotten it a decade ago.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:44
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Szurumbur posted:It's also why I stopped playing SotC after my first Collossus - I understand what's at stake here, but I just couldn't continue, not at that price. What the gently caress.
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Oct 19, 2017 19:55
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There's at least a 2% chance that when you die at age 86 you will wake up with a matrix cord being unplugged from your head and some guy patting your shoulder saying "good soldier" and you learn that all the colossi and goombas you killed were real people and you're just drone pilot in the year 2300 with a virtual facade over the real atrocities you've committed.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:05
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exquisite tea posted:It's hacky and stupid because the ending is predicated on a moral framework that is never offered as an option to the player, yet presupposes their own agency in making that choice. If that account of SpecOps first offering the player the option to abandon the mission is true then it's even worse because many people, even most would have rightfully chosen to leave, but then that probably wouldn't have created the ultra-cool "you were the real monster all along, mannnn" effect its developers intended, so it was later removed. I never thought the game aimed the moral posturing at the player, but rather at Walker himself. The player is along for the ride, but it's Walker making the decisions and actually carrying out the deed, as it were. BeanpolePeckerwood posted:What the gently caress. It's weird, I play a lot of games where violence is the only option, but killing the innocent, plodding Colossi just didn't feel right. Oh well, I still saved Trico.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:06
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Szurumbur posted:I never thought the game aimed the moral posturing at the player, but rather at Walker himself. The player is along for the ride, but it's Walker making the decisions and actually carrying out the deed, as it were. This would make sense if not for the loading screens.
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Oct 19, 2017 20:11
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