|
RealFoxy posted:Spoilers are out already, not a lot really happens this chapter You lie. It's revealed, though many people already guessed it, that Karakuri is an awakened devil fruit user
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 22:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 15:13 |
|
|
Well, less action and more information.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 22:47
|
|
|
I'm becoming a Monday Boy, stay safe friends. God Bless
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 22:53
|
|
|
tsob posted:I do find that people view Akainu only as an attack dog quite a lot, which is strange to me when Akainu has showed willingness to tug that leash and turn on the Gorosei after Doflamingo's defeat at the very least. Akainu isn't the laws themselves, but he does completely believe in enforcing them and not the orders of the people at the top. The people holding his leash seem to only have a tenuous grip on it from what we can see and they're almost certainly going to lose that grip at some point. There's definitely more to Akainu than just World Government's Attack Dog. He truly believes in his version of justice and I can almost see... well, not a face turn, exactly... but him going against the World Government's orders because he just can't swallow the injustice of it. tsob posted:It's entirely possible to view Akainu as rising through the ranks just like Blackbeard. He started in the story as an Admiral, akin to Blackbeard starting as a member of the strongest pirate crew in the world. And while he got his promotion because Sengoku retired, he had to fight Ao Kiji for the title and prove himself physically stronger to get it; a fight that scarred an entire island irrevocably. Saying he only got it because Sengoku retired is akin to saying that Blackbeard only got his title because Whitebeard died. loving whaaaaaat? lol I don't see how those are even remotely similar. Akainu went from #2 to #1 in his system. Blackbeard was a nobody. He didn't even have a bounty; he was literally starting from zero. Blackbeard obviously had something going on since he was able to injure Shanks, but equating Akainu and Blackbeard's arcs is just... crazy talk, man...
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 22:54
|
|
|
I don't think Blackbeard is the final villain because that would mean the Blackbeard Pirates are also the final enemies for the rest of the Strawhats. And does anyone really think they are significant enough for that?
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 22:57
|
|
|
I think there will be two stages of "final boss" fights. First, there will be one-on-one fights for the Strawhat crew vs. the Blackbeard crew. Luffy will have to fight Blackbeard for the title of Pirate King. Second, the crew will travel to Mariejois with the armada and the revolutionaries to take down the World Government. That'll test the limits of the crew together rather than individually.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:05
|
|
|
lowercase16 posted:loving whaaaaaat? lol Exactly. Blackbeard had no title to indicate position, but he starts the story as someone able to fight Ace evenly and who is talked about by the biggest names in the world in cautious tones. He was never starting from zero. He wasn't number two in an organization, but the story makes it obvious he was hiding some kind of strength and we only ever see him after he reveals it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:07
|
|
|
Riazer posted:I don't think Blackbeard is the final villain because that would mean the Blackbeard Pirates are also the final enemies for the rest of the Strawhats. I do, yeah. There's a lot of parallels between the crews and their designs are super interesting. Have they gotten enough screen time to build them up? No, but we're still years out from the conclusion. tsob posted:Exactly. Blackbeard had no title to indicate position, but he starts the story as someone able to fight Ace evenly and who is talked about by the biggest names in the world in cautious tones. He was never starting from zero. He wasn't number two in an organization, but the story makes it obvious he was hiding some kind of strength and we only ever see him after he reveals it. Right, but that's still a long way off from "is one step away from the top of his field." Narratively, equating the two is ludicrous.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:12
|
|
|
lowercase16 posted:Right, but that's still a long way off from "is one step away from the top of his field." Narratively, equating the two is ludicrous. He's also narratively a lot closer than Luffy started. And while Akainu might have started out number 2 in the Marines, the World Government is still his direct boss and he could (and I think, will) advance several more steps through the World Government. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he kills the Gorosei for what he feels is an embarrassment to the Marines after the Reverie, given he's already talked about doing it after Doflamingo's defeat and that he's just the type of angry sod to actually follow through on that threat if he feels his institution is being demeaned.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:16
|
|
|
i like this thread without chapter spoilers, imo
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
Quick PW3 update, quick charge+the special ability power up skill on Fujitora basically sets the game to baby mode, giving you a free, stronger than a kizuna rush attack that can one shot basically anything.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:22
|
|
|
tsob posted:He's also narratively a lot closer than Luffy started. And while Akainu might have started out number 2 in the Marines, the World Government is still his direct boss and he could (and I think, will) advance several more steps through the World Government. I doubt it. The World Government seems extremely shady and political. Not the sort of organization that would welcome a guy like Akainu, nor one he'd want to be a part of. tsob posted:I wouldn't be at all surprised if he kills the Gorosei for what he feels is an embarrassment to the Marines after the Reverie, given he's already talked about doing it after Doflamingo's defeat and that he's just the type of angry sod to actually follow through on that threat if he feels his institution is being demeaned. That'd certainly change my impression of him. But until he does something that huge, I just don't see Akainu as bigger player than Blackbeard. Beef Jerky Robot posted:Quick PW3 update, quick charge+the special ability power up skill on Fujitora basically sets the game to baby mode, giving you a free, stronger than a kizuna rush attack that can one shot basically anything. Yeah, Fujitora owns. I wish you could do multiplayer in Dream Log. The only thing I have left to do in that game is get every character to level 100.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:29
|
|
|
Blackbeard was top candidate for commander in Whitebeards army but he let Ace have it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:29
|
|
|
tsob posted:There is literally no point to the Rio Poneglyph at the very least, which details the history of the Void Century and the World Governments sins if the World Government is already going to be defeated before arriving at Raftel to read it. At that point it'd just be pointless exposition, along the lines of "oh, so that's why we beat those guys up an arc or two ago". Just in broad thematic strokes, One Piece is a story about pirates fighting. It's not a story about revolutionaries overthrowing the government. The Revolutionaries probably will overthrow the World Government, but that's not what Luffy's journey is leading to. Luffy's journey has got a very clear and pure goal: become the Pirate King. The world has become more complicated and interesting, but that core has never changed and that essential simplicity has never been lost. One Piece is a very effectively simple story where the events and reality itself is secondary to the strong consistent themes. This is a story that begins with Luffy saying "I'm gonna be the Pirate King!" and it must end with him becoming the pirate king.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:37
|
|
|
Kild posted:Blackbeard was top candidate for commander in Whitebeards army but he let Ace have it. I always read that as a seniority thing, not a meritocracy thing. Like, by rights, Blackbeard "should" have gotten the position, but Ace actually earned it. So Ace needed to go to Blackbeard and do this weird little face-saving ritual and get Blackbeard's "permission" to become Commander. But I guess it could be exactly how it seems. We don't really know much about how powerful or respected Blackbeard was before he killed Thatch and stole the fruit. Eiba posted:The Marines aren't the World Government. Honestly the marines probably have a place in a post-World Government world. They're not inherently evil, they've just got lovely people in charge. I can see Akainu being defeated before Raftel. And honestly, he'll probably be defeated by Sabo. Broadly agree, but I don't think it must end with Luffy becoming the Pirate King. It might end with him defining what being the Pirate King means to him, which might mean overthrowing the oppressive World Government. It would certainly align with Luffy's vision of freedom and the goals of his firends and allies.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:46
|
|
|
Eiba posted:Just in broad thematic strokes, One Piece is a story about pirates fighting. It's not a story about revolutionaries overthrowing the government. The Revolutionaries probably will overthrow the World Government, but that's not what Luffy's journey is leading to. Luffy's journey has got a very clear and pure goal: become the Pirate King. I would remind you the first half of the story was capped with a struggle between pirates and the Marines as representative of the World Government. Which Luffy partook in for personal reasons. Luffy's goal is and always has been to become Pirate King, but the story itself has been growing out of that and suggesting there'll be more for years now. There is no way that the Revolutionaries will fight the World Government as some between arcs thing we barely see and the crew aren't directly involved in. And Luffy's journey is leading directly to him doing that. Whitebeard said himself that as soon as somoeone discovers One Piece, they'll turn the world upside down and have a war against the World Government. Why have him talk about it right at the climax of the first half of the story if it's just going to be some side show thing that we barely see?
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:47
|
|
|
The Straw Hats are totally going to mess up the Government. Blackbeard will be getting messed up afterwards though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:Blackbeard is a possibility, but Akainu isn't strong enough to be Luffy's final opponent. Why Sakazuki is powerful. He was stronger then Blackbeard and his crew before the Timeskip. And likely has gotten stronger.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 00:05
|
|
|
Unpopular opinion, but I think Coby will be the final boss of One Piece. If not that, Coby will be the one to capture Luffy and Co, shortly after Luffy becomes the Pirate King. And Smoker will be pissed about it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 00:22
|
|
|
smoker's job is to take credit for luffy's work against his will and be forced into promotions he doesn't want he's gonna make admiral by complete accident at some point
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 00:29
|
|
|
The WG is going to name Smoker the new Pirate King just so Luffy doesn't get the title
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 00:33
|
|
|
tsob posted:Whitebeard says as much just before he dies. His exact words going by the translation I saw: I don’t think that’s true about Borsalino - he’s got a definite malicious streak. Guy enjoys taunting his enemies, and was the first one to jump to ‘just murder him’ when the Marines were capturing Oars Jr. I think that while some of his weirdness is genuine (because he’s a One Piece villain), a lot more of it is a put-on by someone smarter and more malevolent than he looks. Don’t forget that when we saw the Admirals as children, he was the nerd.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 00:38
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:The Straw Hats are totally going to mess up the Government. God, I hope not. It'd be really disappointing to go from "we're taking on a massive government controlling almost the entire world because they've been oppressing people in the name of the law for centuries after some horrible history" to "we're taking on another pirate crew for the title of biggest pirate to prove we're the best". It's just anti-climactic and a step down in terms of stakes. Even just in terms of personal revenge it's going from "the guy who killed my brother" to "the guy who caught my brother so the guy I already defeated could kill him", which is a step down. Fighting Blackbeard might be necessary for a more personal goal, but it just doesn't have the same weight to it. More than that though, I don't even think it makes sense. The Strawhats would either have to stop before reaching Raftel, go off to fight the World Government, defeat them, continue to Raftel, fighting Blackbeard somewhere along the way and then read the secret history as to why they beat the World Government up. Or, they'd have to reach Raftel, read about how lovely the World Government is, go off to beat them, then turn around and go back and defeat Blackbeard for a title that Luffy has already earned since you become Pirate King by reaching Raftel full stop, not by beating up the other strong pirate crews and reaching Raftel. Also, I was just thinking about the Strawhats fighting the World Government in some big brawl analogous to the Paramount War and wondered about Raftel and it's physical proximity to Reverse Mountain. If they reach Raftel, read the Rio Poneglphy, fulfilling Robin's dream and charting a map of the most forbidding sea in the world, fulfilling Namis, why couldn't they go the last bit and fulfill Brooks before sailing back to Mariejois or wherever they're going to fight the World Government. Because I was just picturing a secret plan a la the coated Moby Dick rising up out of the bay in the Paramount War, but instead with Brook riding Laboon in to battle and Laboon using his experience head-butting mountains to clear some new obstacle that's just popped up. The silly Strawhat flag still painted on his head. Edit: Or Nami riding Zeus as she leads the Weatheria scientists or Usopp leading a crew of Elbaf giants from their shoulders. tsob fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Oct 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
tsob posted:I would remind you the first half of the story was capped with a struggle between pirates and the Marines as representative of the World Government. Which Luffy partook in for personal reasons. Luffy's goal is and always has been to become Pirate King, but the story itself has been growing out of that and suggesting there'll be more for years now. There is no way that the Revolutionaries will fight the World Government as some between arcs thing we barely see and the crew aren't directly involved in. And Luffy's journey is leading directly to him doing that. Whitebeard said himself that as soon as somoeone discovers One Piece, they'll turn the world upside down and have a war against the World Government. Why have him talk about it right at the climax of the first half of the story if it's just going to be some side show thing that we barely see? If we somehow get into a situation where he needs to take out the government to really become the Pirate King, then they might be involved in the final act. But even then I expect the final battle would be against Blackbeard, even if it took place in the burning ruins of Mariejois. But honestly, fighting Blackbeard at Raftel is the more poetic ending, and seems way more likely than any alternative, no matter how big the other obstacles in the periphery have gotten. Because they are still just obstacles, not goals, no matter their global significance. He's only got one goal. I would also accept a fight with Shanks at the end. Preferably a serious one. But not Sakazuki. That'd be lame. As would any other random person we haven't heard about yet. (A rematch with Enel returned from the moon after powering up with moon magic would be acceptable to me personally, but I don't imagine it would go over very well.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Part 1 of One Piece ended with Blackbeard winning. It'd make sense for part 2 to end with him losing imo. Also, I don't think Blackbeard's just going to end up being "Another Pirate". If the World Government goes down before him i'll imagine he'll benefit in somewhere, cause he always manages to get a let bit more powerful, a little bit more important when big events go down. And I don't think "defeating the World Government" and "defeating Blackbeard" will necessarily be unconnected. The Guy's already shown he's willing to fight the big powers in the world for personal power. Also yeah, Blackbeard was weaker than Akainu before the timeskip, got his rear end-kicked by Whitebeard and Sengoku too. I think that'll change though if it hasn't already. He reads as way more dangerous than the World Government and personally more important than Akainu. Akainu killed Ace, Blackbeard killed Whitebeard. And I know what's more impressive. Ace only died because Blackbeard captured him in the first place as well. Blackbeard provides the philosophical counterpoint to Luffy, but Akainu's just a monster. Of all the groups at Marineford only one group got what they wanted and that was the Blackbeard Pirates. Don't just assume those guys are gonna be less important.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 00:57
|
|
|
to be fair, everyone was weaker than whitebeard. the admirals seem to be on par with yonko commanders. I guess akainu would be stronger than that now tho
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Part 1 of One Piece ended with Blackbeard winning. It'd make sense for part 2 to end with him losing imo. It also ended on a massive war against the World Government by the current strongest pirate crew in the world to protect their family. SyntheticPolygon posted:Akainu killed Ace, Blackbeard killed Whitebeard. And I know what's more impressive. The one you're clearly exaggerating for effect? Because Blackbeard didn't kill Whitebeard. He tried, and Whitebeard immediately kicked his rear end despite being on death's door, at which point Blackbeard had to call in his crew to help kill him. And even that didn't really do it, because Whitebeard was still alive to give a speech when they ran out of bullets. Akainu gave Whitebeard the wounds that killed him, Blackbeard and his crew tried to finish it and couldn't even manage that. SyntheticPolygon posted:Ace only died because Blackbeard captured him in the first place as well. How is capturing him possibly worse than killing him? SyntheticPolygon posted:Of all the groups at Marineford only one group got what they wanted and that was the Blackbeard Pirates. Don't just assume those guys are gonna be less important. Shanks got what he wanted too actually. I'm not assuming they're less important because they did or didn't get something out of Marineford, I'm assuming they're less important based on the structure the story is setting up where it keeps talking about how important taking on the World Government post Raftel is and how doing so will lead to better things for multiple parties. Including one directly on board the Thousand Sunny in the form of Jinbe, who is partly joining Luffy because he believes Luffy will do something to help free Fishmen and Fishman Island from the social stigma they suffer under. A social stigma we know Luffy is upset by, because when he saw how it was impacting Hachi he lost his poo poo and punched a world noble, bringing a marine admiral down on everyone despite multiple warnings not to do it for exactly that reason. This despite Hachi only recently becoming his friend and being someone who helped hurt his family before that point. All Luffy needs as a reason to want to destroy the World Government is exposure to wider mistreatment by the Celestial Dragons; which the Rio Poneglyph might just do. tsob fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Oct 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:11
|
|
|
tsob posted:It also ended on a massive war against the World Government by the current strongest pirate crew in the world to protect their family. A war which the World Government lost completely in just about every way. Each victory they had was completely taken from them and their original objective ended up backfiring in the biggest way possible. Blackbeard killed Whitebeard. Even though Whitebeard was already dying and seconds away from killing his old son, Blackbeard got the victory. Blackbeard is a snivelling coward who begged for his life on his deathbed, and only won through luck and his entire crew pulling out guns and shooting a dead man. But he pulled it off. He killed the guy. He got what he wanted. Akainu was one of so many people who contributed to killing Whitebeard that day. But the guy who got it done and the only one who benefitted was Marshall D Teach. I didn't mean to imply capturing was worse than killing. Just that Blackbeard's not someone completely disconnected from Luffy. Hell he certainly had far more of a connection to Ace than Akainu did. And no Shanks didn't get what he wanted. He wanted to end the War far before it got to the point it did, but he was blocked by Kaidou and didn't arrive on time. By the time he got there, Whitebeard and Ace were already dead and both armies had suffered tremendous losses. He prevented worse stuff from happening and got their bodies for burial, but he didn't win. The World Government are still hella important. They're a big deal and far more at the forefront of things than Blackbeard is. But it's always been like that and that hasn't stopped Blackbeard from having far more victories than the Government has and achieving a lot more. I think Luffy would care more about beating up the Government than beating up Blackbeard specifically, he's got reason to hate the guy but he's got more reason to hate the WG. I don't think that means it'll end with beating the Marines though. I think the final fight's going to be Blackbeard because he feels to me like he's at the top of the food chain. He's not, but he's the only guy throughout the series who'd had everything go his way. Any loss he takes he recovers from immediately and he piggyback's success off other people's victories. He's aiming for the Pirate King spot in a more direct way than the other big hitters in the Pirate world. He's a D who cried at his death. He betrayed his crew twice over. He chose his own men by having prisoners murder each other then taking who ever survived. Hell, he said it himself at Marineford, right before the timeskip. It's his era right now. I think that places him as 'the guy to beat' post-timeskip.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:38
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:A war which the World Government lost completely in just about every way. I'm not sure how that changes the point. The first half of the story was rounded out with a big battle against the world government. Whether the World Government won or lost is immaterial to the fact that the fight was against them, not against another pirate crew. And really, despite Sengoku's assessment the World Government came out of it pretty well with both Whitebeard and Ace dead, and showing they could take on the strongest of the 4 Emperors and kill them. SyntheticPolygon posted:Blackbeard killed Whitebeard. Even though Whitebeard was already dying and seconds away from killing his old son, Blackbeard got the victory. Getting the credit and actually doing it are different things. Blackbeard got the credit for killing Whitebeard, but in reading the chapters it's pretty clear he wasn't the one who actually did it. SyntheticPolygon posted:Akainu was one of so many people who contributed to killing Whitebeard that day. Who else contributed significant wounds? Because Blackbeard and his crew shooting Whitebeard seems barely worse than Squardo stabbing Whitebeard, a wound he essentially ignored. Akainu took off nearly half Whitebeard's face and punched a hole in the guy's chest the size of a cannon ball. Those were the only significant wounds Whitebeard had that I recall. Every other wound seemed pretty inconsequential. Akainu also put up far more of a fight against Whitebeard in general than Blackbeard did. And is the one person in the story to have broken Luffy. Once Akainu killed Ace, Luffy just stopped and took days to recover. That loss also prompted him to disband his crew for two years by making it apparent he couldn't protect everyone without training. Blackbeard has never had that effect on Luffy, and will almost certainly never have, not unless we're in for another time skip. SyntheticPolygon posted:I think Luffy would care more about beating up the Government than beating up Blackbeard specifically, he's got reason to hate the guy but he's got more reason to hate the WG. I don't think that means it'll end with beating the Marines though. Neither do I, nor have I argued that it'll be the World Government because Luffy has more reason to hate them. I've said he has reason to hate them too, but not that he has more reason to hate them and that's why it'd make sense for them to be the final villains. SyntheticPolygon posted:I think the final fight's going to be Blackbeard because he feels to me like he's at the top of the food chain. He's not, but he's the only guy throughout the series who'd had everything go his way. Any loss he takes he recovers from immediately and he piggyback's success off other people's victories. He's aiming for the Pirate King spot in a more direct way than the other big hitters in the Pirate world. He's a D who cried at his death. He betrayed his crew twice over. He chose his own men by having prisoners murder each other then taking who ever survived. Hell, he said it himself at Marineford, right before the timeskip. It's his era right now. I think that places him as 'the guy to beat' post-timeskip. I think that places him as someone who's already peaked, given that in getting what he wanted and declaring "this is my era" he's basically reached the culmination of his plan/s and that someone who always wins even when he loses needs to outright lose eventually, but that it doesn't necessitate being the final villain. He's already fulfilled every plan he's talked about (getting the dark dark fruit, becoming a warlord, infiltrating Impel Down, killing Whitebeard) and all that's left for him is a goal. One that we already know several times over he's unworthy of, and which is gotten not by reaching Raftel and beating up any other crews that make it there; but by reaching there and nothing more. If Blackbeard reaches Raftel, he's worthy by the criteria the story has laid out. And we know he's not worthy, so he's not getting there. Which means the story needs some other climax after reaching Raftel. tsob fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Oct 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 01:55
|
|
|
When Blackbeard talks about "his era" I don't think he means everything that came before, but everything that's happening right now and he's still amassing power. And he might have succeeded at everything he's done but he's still an opportunistic schemer who's got plans going. We know he's got some sort of deal with Aokiji and he's going after the Revolutionaries now. He ain't finished with his schemes yet. And yeah, Blackbeard and his crew totally killed Whitebeard. It was lucky and cowardly, under a shower of bullets hitting a man who was already dying. But they're treated not just by the characters but by the story as the ones who finished off the strongest man in the world. Also, Akainu may have had the single biggest hit on the guy but there was a whole thing detailing the amount of injuries he suffered that war. You know 300 bullets 200 sword wound 50 cannonballs or however much it was, on top of dying from a disease at the time. Whitebeard died from a death of a thousand cuts. But Blackbeard and company got the final blow and they're the only ones who got anything at all out of Whitebeard's death. They did the deed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:07
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:And yeah, Blackbeard and his crew totally killed Whitebeard. It was lucky and cowardly, under a shower of bullets hitting a man who was already dying. But they're treated not just by the characters but by the story as the ones who finished off the strongest man in the world. Also, Akainu may have had the single biggest hit on the guy but there was a whole thing detailing the amount of injuries he suffered that war. You know 300 bullets 200 sword wound 50 cannonballs or however much it was, on top of dying from a disease at the time. Whitebeard died from a death of a thousand cuts. But Blackbeard and company got the final blow and they're the only ones who got anything at all out of Whitebeard's death. They did the deed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:12
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:When Blackbeard talks about "his era" I don't think he means everything that came before, but everything that's happening right now and he's still amassing power. And he might have succeeded at everything he's done but he's still an opportunistic schemer who's got plans going. We know he's got some sort of deal with Aokiji and he's going after the Revolutionaries now. He ain't finished with his schemes yet. I don't think he means everything that came before and lead up to the present either, but I do think that if this is already his era then the character has peaked. He might have more plans, but we're no longer privy to them and he himself no longer appears or does anything; just his lackeys. He's already an Emperor, the only thing higher in the structure he's aiming for is Pirate King. Which he can't become, because we know Luffy will become that. So he's peaked. Any plans he has or enacts will only improve his material possessions slightly (more fruits, more weapons), not significantly change his status. Also, Akainu didn't give Whitebeard one significant wound; he gave him two. The only two significant wounds the guy had as far as I know. The litany at teh end also isn't placed as a "this is what killed him" list, it's placed as a "he was so strong he was able to withstand this" list. If it was to be a "this is what killed him list" there'd be lava punches on the list too. I don't agree that the story treats things as Blackbeard being his killer either, because Blackbeard gives him no significant wounds and Whitebeard was obviously dying already before Blackbeard even appeared, giving speeches telling his crew to leave and so on. Eiba posted:I mean, that's how you take out a Yonkou. I don't think Luffy's going to beat Kaidou in a 1v1 honorable duel after being outclassed by one of Big Mom's commanders. So what happens when Luffy becomes an Emperor? Or do you think he's just going to skip that altogether and go straight from regular pirate to pirate king without beating any emperors, claiming any territory or amassing any wide respect for his deeds pre pirate king? tsob fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Oct 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:15
|
|
|
Eiba posted:I mean, that's how you take out a Yonkou. I don't think Luffy's going to beat Kaidou in a 1v1 honorable duel after being outclassed by one of Big Mom's commanders. I think it will end up as 1v1 after several characters work together to take him out. And probably more honorable then, showing up after everyone is exhausted and dying having your entire crew draw guns and just fire them several times into their enemy's chest after everyone else did the hardest stuff. E: tsob posted:I don't think he means everything that came before and lead up to the present either, but I do think that if this is already his era then the character has peaked. He might have more plans, but we're no longer privy to them and he himself no longer appears or does anything; just his lackeys. He's already an Emperor, the only thing higher in the structure he's aiming for is Pirate King. Which he can't become, because we know Luffy will become that. So he's peaked. Any plans he has or enacts will only improve his material possessions slightly (more fruits, more weapons), not significantly change his status. Also, Akainu didn't give Whitebeard one significant wound; he gave him two. The only two significant wounds the guy had as far as I know. The litany at teh end also isn't placed as a "this is what killed him" list, it's placed as a "he was so strong he was able to withstand this" list. If it was to be a "this is what killed him list" there'd be lava punches on the list too. I don't agree that the story treats things as Blackbeard being his killer either, because Blackbeard gives him no significant wounds and Whitebeard was obviously dying already before Blackbeard even appeared, giving speeches telling his crew to leave and so on. I just think having a character shout about 'his era' in a moment given as much dramatic weight as that means a hell of a lot. Not just that "wow this guy is a really big deal" but "wow this guy is the biggest deal". Also at this point I think we're just going to have to disagree about Whitebeard's death because I don't find anything in the story that really seems to push that it was Akainu who killed Whitebeard or that he deserves more of the credit for it than Teach. Akainu was the 2nd most badass dude there and the only one who stood half a chance in a straight up fight so he gets some big hits in but I don't see anything that treats it like Akainu was the guy most important to killing Whitebeard. Also, I think Blackbeard can still improve his position. I mean yeah I think he'll end the series as a Yonkou but I think during the final arc or whatever he'll be in a stronger position than he is now. SyntheticPolygon fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Oct 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:16
|
|
|
tsob posted:I don't think he means everything that came before and lead up to the present either, but I do think that if this is already his era then the character has peaked. He might have more plans, but we're no longer privy to them and he himself no longer appears or does anything; just his lackeys. He's already an Emperor, the only thing higher in the structure he's aiming for is Pirate King. Which he can't become, because we know Luffy will become that. So he's peaked. Any plans he has or enacts will only improve his material possessions slightly (more fruits, more weapons), not significantly change his status. Also, Akainu didn't give Whitebeard one significant wound; he gave him two. The only two significant wounds the guy had as far as I know. The litany at teh end also isn't placed as a "this is what killed him" list, it's placed as a "he was so strong he was able to withstand this" list. If it was to be a "this is what killed him list" there'd be lava punches on the list too. I don't agree that the story treats things as Blackbeard being his killer either, because Blackbeard gives him no significant wounds and Whitebeard was obviously dying already before Blackbeard even appeared, giving speeches telling his crew to leave and so on. you're splitting hairs dude
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:18
|
|
|
How many villains in One Piece had an honorable slugfest with Luffy?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:19
|
|
|
Arist posted:you're splitting hairs dude Over? Because if it's "who killed Whitebeard" as I suspect, the credit and the actual act is more than a minor detail and deserves to be differentiated in my view.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:20
|
|
|
RealFoxy posted:How many villains in One Piece had an honorable slugfest with Luffy? Lucci.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:23
|
|
|
Squaddo will be the next Yonko, cos he killed Whitebeard when he stabbed him in an effort to power him up for his big fight with the Admirals.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:25
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Lucci.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 15:13 |
|
|
What counts as an honorable duel that Lucci counts but Don Kreig, Arlong, Crocodile and others don't? How many arc villains has he had help actually fighting? Not help getting there, or help not dying because he did something stupid, but actually fighting the person?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2017 02:37
|
|