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Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/18/warning-of-ecological-armageddon-after-dramatic-plunge-in-insect-numbers

Warning of 'ecological Armageddon' after dramatic plunge in insect numbers posted:

The abundance of flying insects has plunged by three-quarters over the past 25 years, according to a new study that has shocked scientists.

Insects are an integral part of life on Earth as both pollinators and prey for other wildlife and it was known that some species such as butterflies were declining. But the newly revealed scale of the losses to all insects has prompted warnings that the world is “on course for ecological Armageddon”, with profound impacts on human society.

The new data was gathered in nature reserves across Germany but has implications for all landscapes dominated by agriculture, the researchers said.

So yeah we're all gonna die.

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A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:
At least if the cause is (largely) pesticides, there's the possibility of it being more quickly reversed if action is actually taken. I mean, fish stocks can bounce back pretty well if you stop fishing them, on a relatively short time scale, and presumably insects have the potential to bounce back even faster?

fake edit: Tried to look up insect population growth, stumbled on an article from 2006 talking about how global warming could trigger an insect population boom.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

A Buttery Pastry posted:

fake edit: Tried to look up insect population growth, stumbled on an article from 2006 talking about how global warming could trigger an insect population boom.

Oh it will certainly do both. But like with everything climate related, only the lovely both. So we'll lose ecosystem essential insect populations while also getting explosions of invasive species like the spread of the pine beetle.


http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/03/climate-change-sends-beetles-overdrive

quote:

Call it the beetle baby boom. Climate change could be throwing common tree killers called mountain pine beetles into a reproductive frenzy. A new study suggests that some beetles living in Colorado, which normally reproduce just once annually, now churn out an extra generation of new bugs each year. And that could further devastate the region's forests.

Pine beetles (Dendroctonus ponderosae), which scuttle from New Mexico north into Canada, are trouble for trees, says study co-author Jeffry Mitton, an evolutionary geneticist at the University of Colorado, Boulder. Beginning in late summer along high altitude sites in the eastern Colorado Rocky Mountains, for instance, swarms of hundreds or even thousands of these small black bugs will single out individual lodgepole pines (Pinus contorta) or related trees, then advance on them en masse. Females dig deep burrows inside the pines' trunks and drop down their eggs. They also deposit a special type of fungus that the insects carry with them that grow inside the trees, eventually helping to kill them. Beetle larvae feed on that same fungus throughout the winter, escaping their burrows the following August.

Recently, pine beetles have inexplicably exploded across their range. In British Canada alone, the insects gutted and killed about 13 million hectares of trees in about a decade. Mitton says it's possible to fly in a small plane over pine forests here for an hour or more and see almost no living pine trees.

Telephones
Apr 28, 2013
What the hell is there to do at this point? Early twenties, very little money and no authority. What can I do to be prepared?

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day

Telephones posted:

What the hell is there to do at this point? Early twenties, very little money and no authority. What can I do to be prepared?

Make a lot of money and keep it in a way that you can easily liquidate and won't get devalued to hell in the event of a market crash.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Telephones posted:

What the hell is there to do at this point? Early twenties, very little money and no authority. What can I do to be prepared?

Learn how your community will be impacted by the changes in the climate. Will you face floods, droughts, deforestation, etc?

Wakko
Jun 9, 2002
Faboo!

Telephones posted:

What the hell is there to do at this point? Early twenties, very little money and no authority. What can I do to be prepared?

Acquire skills that will remain in demand during interesting times, i.e. there will never be too many doctors or dentists regardless of how rapidly degrowth takes place. Also, build good relationships with local folks who have skills that will remain in demand during interesting times.

the old ceremony
Aug 1, 2017

by FactsAreUseless

Telephones posted:

What the hell is there to do at this point? Early twenties, very little money and no authority. What can I do to be prepared?
would you like me to show you how to propagate trees? it's quite easy, you just need a big plastic tub and something to put over the top of it, you can do it on your balcony

the old ceremony
Aug 1, 2017

by FactsAreUseless
there are always local not-for-profits that need any help they can get, even if it's just administration. most of the people counting bugs for the study covered in the guardian article were volunteers. i do wildlife rescue and reforestation, but tbh there's an endless amount of stuff you can do - disaster relief, national park maintenance, waterway clean-up, even protesting if you don't mind getting arrested/maced

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Telephones posted:

What the hell is there to do at this point? Early twenties, very little money and no authority. What can I do to be prepared?

Make peace with dying young.

viral spiral
Sep 19, 2017

by R. Guyovich

VideoGameVet posted:

Lots of pine bark beetles killing trees all over the place, the winters aren't killing them.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-sierra-dead-trees-20170128-story.html

Wow, this is probably some of the most depressing poo poo I have ever read. :stonk:

Arglebargle III posted:

Seriously if you haven't see the new Blade Runner go see it, the nightmare future hellscape has been tastefully updated for ecosystem collapse.

Seconding this. It's both beautiful and horrifying.

the old ceremony
Aug 1, 2017

by FactsAreUseless
the problem obviously is that you won't get paid, but honestly we're getting to the point where it's better to be making friends with a couch you can crash on if yours gets flooded out than it is to be hoarding what little money the system will allow you to have

the old ceremony
Aug 1, 2017

by FactsAreUseless
alternately you could take to the desert on a horse with no name

Xeom
Mar 16, 2007

Oxxidation posted:

Make peace with dying young.

This is probably the best answer.

Pick up an instrument, gently caress your girlfriend/boyfriend, read some great literature, do whatever it is the gently caress you've been wanting to do.
Stop playing video games and buying useless poo poo you don't need, stop wasting time.

This train is headed towards a wall and people you cannot influence are feeding the engine more coal.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

Xeom posted:

Stop playing video games and buying useless poo poo you don't need, stop wasting time.

gently caress you dad! im an adult now and i can do whatever the HELL i want!

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

VideoGameVet posted:

China is the leading producer of solar panels, has signed onto the Paris Accords, and will probably dominate the EV market in a decade.

Chinese solar panels are cheap and inefficient and are a byproduct of mercantalist trade policy more than far-seeing environmental policy, the Paris Accords require China to do literally loving nothing, and lol China can't even build a decent regular car.

You're being had by the propaganda of a crypto-fascist autocracy.

the old ceremony
Aug 1, 2017

by FactsAreUseless
that's great but the world is still going to blame america for climate catastrophe

the british got to rule the world for hundreds of years and as a result they're reviled as the face of murderous colonialism. the americans got to rule the world for about a hundred years and as a result they're reviled as the face of destructive consumerism. whether other countries pollute as much as america doesn't even factor. you were the biggest, you were the loudest, you got noticed and people are going to remember

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

the old ceremony posted:

that's great but the world is still going to blame america for climate catastrophe

the british got to rule the world for hundreds of years and as a result they're reviled as the face of murderous colonialism. the americans got to rule the world for about a hundred years and as a result they're reviled as the face of destructive consumerism. whether other countries pollute as much as america doesn't even factor. you were the biggest, you were the loudest, you got noticed and people are going to remember

Nah, poo poo goes pear shaped and we nuke everything. Can't blame us if you aren't alive, savvy?

Nosre
Apr 16, 2002


the old ceremony posted:

that's great but the world is still going to blame america for climate catastrophe

the british got to rule the world for hundreds of years and as a result they're reviled as the face of murderous colonialism. the americans got to rule the world for about a hundred years and as a result they're reviled as the face of destructive consumerism. whether other countries pollute as much as america doesn't even factor. you were the biggest, you were the loudest, you got noticed and people are going to remember

What's the point of this blame thing you've been going on about for pages? America's poo poo in a lot of ways, China's poo poo in others, and trying to tally up some sort of score just comes off as an attempt to feel superior.

We're all going to burn the same.

the old ceremony
Aug 1, 2017

by FactsAreUseless
if by "for pages" you mean three posts

Rime
Nov 2, 2011

by Games Forum
It's a recurring theme in here.

VideoGameVet
May 14, 2005

It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Fojar38 posted:

Chinese solar panels are cheap and inefficient and are a byproduct of mercantalist trade policy more than far-seeing environmental policy, the Paris Accords require China to do literally loving nothing, and lol China can't even build a decent regular car.

You're being had by the propaganda of a crypto-fascist autocracy.

China is a Kleptocracy. And whatever gravitas the USA had over the Chinese has been trumped by our recent move to complete Climate denial.

And trains. China has decent trains.

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
I'm sure that the atmosphere cares a whole lot about China saying the Correct Things while continuing to pollute the poo poo out of it.

Kindest Forums User
Mar 25, 2008

Let me tell you about my opinion about Bernie Sanders and why Donald Trump is his true successor.

You cannot vote Hillary Clinton because she is worse than Trump.
can yo ufucking beleive china. jesus loving christ. they are SICK. look at those loving emissions. can't loving bleive it.

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

A Buttery Pastry posted:

At least if the cause is (largely) pesticides, there's the possibility of it being more quickly reversed if action is actually taken. I mean, fish stocks can bounce back pretty well if you stop fishing them, on a relatively short time scale, and presumably insects have the potential to bounce back even faster?

fake edit: Tried to look up insect population growth, stumbled on an article from 2006 talking about how global warming could trigger an insect population boom.

i'd bet money the main reason is habitat fragmentation and the follow-on extinction debt (the time frame is roughly right for this), with larger scale (rather than small scale like analysed in the study) land use change, climate change, and pesticides being smaller additional problems

Notorious R.I.M.
Jan 27, 2004

up to my ass in alligators

Fojar38 posted:

I'm sure that the atmosphere cares a whole lot about China saying the Correct Things while continuing to pollute the poo poo out of it.

No you see China is a bastion of climate change beca

Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get,
the more I feel like laughing.



VideoGameVet posted:

China is a Kleptocracy.

And the United States isn't?

Rime
Nov 2, 2011

by Games Forum
https://i.imgur.com/pmigpyZ.gifv





Just 10 rivers, 8 in Asia alone, may be responsible for dumping almost 4 million tonnes of plastic into the seas every year, accounting for 88-95% of all of plastic pollution in the ocean. Cutting plastic pollution in the 10 rivers could reduce plastic pollution in the ocean by as much as 45%

Evil_Greven
Feb 20, 2007

Whadda I got to,
whadda I got to do
to wake ya up?

To shake ya up,
to break the structure up!?
:stare:

Welp. That's something I hadn't seen before.

Honestly, we deserve what's coming.

Telephones
Apr 28, 2013
This is really stressful. I can't believe it. Every few weeks I check in and see how hosed we are and, just gently caress gently caress gently caress we are so hosed.

I can't imagine staring at these facts for a living.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007


Yep, we deserve to die.

gently caress all humans.

Sir Tonk
Apr 18, 2006
Young Orc

https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/921565475884208128

ChairMaster
Aug 22, 2009

by R. Guyovich

VideoGameVet posted:

Lots of pine bark beetles killing trees all over the place, the winters aren't killing them.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-sierra-dead-trees-20170128-story.html

This has been a thing in the western half of Canada for a couple decades now. Entire mountains of dead trees whenever you drive out on the highway, it's pretty brutal.


On the bright side, that river's gonna dry up soon enough and it'll no longer be polluted when it's gone! And only like half a billion people rely directly upon it for their survival! No problem, they'll annihilate each other with nuclear weapons and it'll all be fine.

I'm only half joking, I think a "small-scale" nuclear war would probably be less damaging to the planet than the status quo in the long run.

Telephones posted:

This is really stressful. I can't believe it. Every few weeks I check in and see how hosed we are and, just gently caress gently caress gently caress we are so hosed.

I can't imagine staring at these facts for a living.

If you don't have kids it's not so bad. I take a certain amount of comfort in knowing that my own inevitable mortality is simply freeing me from the doomed future of the planet; rather than denying me the inexhaustible bounties of the future of a never-ending and always-expanding humanity that might one day become as immortal beings that spread across the galaxy, or even the universe, in a never-ending journey of wonder and discovery.

Now that that's off the table for sure, the burden of possibility has been lifted, and I can accept what's coming to me and everyone else much more peacefully than I could have in the past. The end of global human civilization is kind of a freeing thought if you look at it from the right angle.

ChairMaster fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Oct 21, 2017

Rime
Nov 2, 2011

by Games Forum

quote:

. Engineers had built several dams on the river north of Delhi to provide drinking water for the capital and irrigation for the states of Haryana and western Uttar Pradesh. Those states, India’s breadbasket, powered the 1960s “green revolution,” feeding the masses. The dams left little water in the river to flow to Delhi, whose population growth outstripped the city’s ability to treat sewage and wastewater.

BORLAAAAAAUUUUG! :argh:

ChairMaster
Aug 22, 2009

by R. Guyovich
Bourlag's not the drat problem, there's no reason the planet can't sustain the 9-10 billion population he helped create.

And by that I mean there is a reason, it's just not a scientific one, it's political. He was a scientist, scientists are generally pretty politically naive and optimistic, especially in the 60s.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

blowfish posted:

i'd bet money the main reason is habitat fragmentation and the follow-on extinction debt (the time frame is roughly right for this), with larger scale (rather than small scale like analysed in the study) land use change, climate change, and pesticides being smaller additional problems
Could you expand on this? Just a rough timeline with the highlights.

ChairMaster posted:

Bourlag's not the drat problem, there's no reason the planet can't sustain the 9-10 billion population he helped create.

And by that I mean there is a reason, it's just not a scientific one, it's political. He was a scientist, scientists are generally pretty politically naive and optimistic, especially in the 60s.
Lack of forethought is no excuse.

ChairMaster
Aug 22, 2009

by R. Guyovich
If scientists knew anything about politics we wouldn't have any technology beyond the reach of the layman. Any antipathy or time spent cursing the name of a guy who figured out how to make more food would be better directed at the people who refused to hit the brakes on the road to destruction and the people who can't see beyond their own nation's borders to give a poo poo about the world at large.

I say better in the sense of theory, in practice it doesn't matter what any of us say or think because we're not billionaires.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day

ChairMaster posted:

And by that I mean there is a reason, it's just not a scientific one, it's political. He was a scientist, scientists are generally pretty politically naive and optimistic, especially in the 60s.

I will forever blame Midgley for the baby boomers growing up brain-damaged.

And he knew what the gently caress he was doing. He knew.

ChairMaster
Aug 22, 2009

by R. Guyovich
I can't imagine anyone would defend the guy who thought it was okay to breathe in lead fumes like a thousand years after we figured out that that's a good way to get brain damage.

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Sir Tonk
Apr 18, 2006
Young Orc
But the paint is so much more vibrant.

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