DSA: our brake light guy got arrested for beating his wife

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Rated PG-34: Jul 1, 2004

Latest Dead Pundits Society is a really good episode on the pitfalls of social democracy: https://soundcloud.com/deadpundits/ep-32-corbyn-the-pitfalls-of-social-democracy-w-leo-panitch

# ? Oct 21, 2017 17:52

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# ? May 26, 2024 15:48

IM DAY DAY IRL: Jul 11, 2003; Everything's fine.

Nothing to see here.

an actual dog posted:

In my chapter, there have been points where someone was about to make a decision that they thought they had consensus on, but because of roberts rules they paused and clarified and everything worked out better. It prevents someone who is well meaning from making mistakes, it's not going to make someone not an rear end in a top hat.

my only bristly experience w/ RR was when the PDX DSA chapter had a very exhaustive debate regarding an official statement regarding Fetonte. After over an hour of debate the members had hit a wall and were in 'please god let's just vote and get this over with' mode. When I attempted to point out that the drafted statement contradicted itself (starts with a call for Fetonte to resign immediately citing his CLEAT work as disqualifying him for the position, finishes with a "we will support a NPC fact finding mission, if it says what we think it will say he should step down immediately") I got shouted down for not following some part of parliamentary procedure and was functionally told that the time for me to make statements like that was over and that I would not be allowed to elaborate.

I wasn't trying to argue for or against making a statement, I simply wanted any potential statement to have a clear and direct call to action. Next time I guess I'll make these requests before everyone's blood sugar drops too low.

# ? Oct 21, 2017 18:43

Pomp: Apr 3, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Vhak lord of hate posted:

theres nothing more annoying than two people who have masterful grasp of roberts rules and disagree. they can literally sandbag entire discussions and dominate conversations, wasting the time of everyone who doesn't care. i hate roberts rules more than anything

That's when you tell them to shut the gently caress up

# ? Oct 21, 2017 18:43

Unbelievably Fat Man: Jun 1, 2000; Innocent people. I could never hurt innocent people.

gently caress Robert's Rules. G.U.R.P.S. is the best rule set.

# ? Oct 21, 2017 18:54

Phi230: Feb 2, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

social democracy is a lie and a poison of the mind just stop being such a wimp and be a full socialist

good part is you don't even gotta have a specific tendency or go full communist you can just be a socialist

its wonderful and it frees the mind

# ? Oct 21, 2017 19:05

Karl Barks: Jan 21, 1981

Bok Bok posted:

https://trainings.350.org/resource/how-to-facilitate-meetings-the-no-magic-method/

The average worker or immigrant likely has no knowledge of parliamentary procedure. I had never even heard of it. There are a certain handful of people who will use RR to Fetonte entire meetings and alienate members who have no idea what the gently caress is going on.

this really isn't a replacement for robert's rules, it's just how to prepare for a meeting. and you have to know like 5 phrases to be good at robert's rules. it's not that hard

i mean lol

quote:

Try to end the meeting the way it started�with a sense of community. Don�t let it just end abruptly. A song, some silence, standing in a circle, shaking hands�anything which affirms the groups and gives a feeling of closure is good

# ? Oct 21, 2017 19:16

Rated PG-34: Jul 1, 2004

Phi230 posted:

social democracy is a lie and a poison of the mind just stop being such a wimp and be a full socialist

good part is you don't even gotta have a specific tendency or go full communist you can just be a socialist

its wonderful and it frees the mind

social democracy is basically democratic centralism in so many ways

# ? Oct 21, 2017 19:31

woke kaczynski: Jan 23, 2015; How do you do, fellow antifa?; Fun Shoe

There are at least 4 members of the goon caucus here learning to change brake lights and it's loving awesome imo as is socialism

# ? Oct 21, 2017 20:50

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Phi230 posted:

social democracy is a lie and a poison of the mind just stop being such a wimp and be a full socialist

good part is you don't even gotta have a specific tendency or go full communist you can just be a socialist

its wonderful and it frees the mind

# ? Oct 21, 2017 20:56

Pentecoastal Elites: Feb 27, 2007

Unbelievably Fat Man posted:

gently caress Robert's Rules. G.U.R.P.S. is the best rule set.

DS(Pbt)A

# ? Oct 21, 2017 21:10

Thaddius the Large: Jul 5, 2006; It's in the five-hole!

IM DAY DAY IRL posted:

my only bristly experience w/ RR was when the PDX DSA chapter had a very exhaustive debate regarding an official statement regarding Fetonte. After over an hour of debate the members had hit a wall and were in 'please god let's just vote and get this over with' mode. When I attempted to point out that the drafted statement contradicted itself (starts with a call for Fetonte to resign immediately citing his CLEAT work as disqualifying him for the position, finishes with a "we will support a NPC fact finding mission, if it says what we think it will say he should step down immediately") I got shouted down for not following some part of parliamentary procedure and was functionally told that the time for me to make statements like that was over and that I would not be allowed to elaborate.

I wasn't trying to argue for or against making a statement, I simply wanted any potential statement to have a clear and direct call to action. Next time I guess I'll make these requests before everyone's blood sugar drops too low.

OTOH that meeting was pretty drat hilarious in seeing just how wound up some people get about parliamentary procedure. I liked the debate, agreed it was going on too long, but was also really enjoying the spectacle of a couple nerds jumping up to shout out their magic catchphrases that�d steer the conversation.

# ? Oct 21, 2017 21:39

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

lol

of course maoists are doing it
https://twitter.com/RSF_ATX/status/919993864190091264
though not a bad idea actually

# ? Oct 21, 2017 23:32

an actual dog: Nov 18, 2014

having the class war outside today

# ? Oct 21, 2017 23:35

Phi230: Feb 2, 2016; by Fluffdaddy

today our workgroup will be learning how to

*checks itinerary*

kill your landlord

# ? Oct 21, 2017 23:35

Barry Convex: Sep 1, 2005; Think of the good things, Pim! The good things!

Like Jesus, candy, and crackerjacks! Ice cream and cake and lots o'laffs!
Grandma, Grandpa, and Uncle Joe! Larry, Curly, and brother Moe!

https://twitter.com/wowdoggos/status/921897705605132289

# ? Oct 22, 2017 01:37

Huragok: Sep 14, 2011

jokes on him i dont read

# ? Oct 22, 2017 01:45

ScrubLeague: Feb 11, 2007; Nap Ghost

Unbelievably Fat Man posted:

gently caress Robert's Rules. G.U.R.P.S. is the best rule set.

it's true

# ? Oct 22, 2017 02:16

long-ass nips Diane: Dec 13, 2010; Breathe.

How hard is it to block people from sending messages to a mailing list

# ? Oct 22, 2017 02:34

surfacelevelspeck: Oct 1, 2008; communism's sleepiest soldier

long-rear end nips Diane posted:

How hard is it to block people from sending messages to a mailing list

it's not a mailing list, he has everyone's email address saved in his personal email account.

# ? Oct 22, 2017 02:46

DOCTOR ZIMBARDO: May 8, 2006

platzapS posted:

Why, and what would you propose instead for large group meetings?

RR work okay in everyday use - when you probably aren�t following them religiously. As soon as a disagreement becomes entrenched enough, though, someone is going to start rules lawyering the 716-page document. In a mass organization it is probably not really appropriate to expect people to master a system designed for power users with the time to get acquainted with it.

There are many alternative rules for conducting meetings - even large meetings - and none of them are ever explored because RR is a default. Consensus is kind of lovely for large meetings but there are other forms of parliamentary procedure and other procedures for running large meetings. I�m exploring some of them in my work outside the DSA and don�t have a favorite yet, but RR is a fuckin pill.

# ? Oct 22, 2017 02:47

Impermanent: Apr 1, 2010

use rusty's

# ? Oct 22, 2017 02:56

surfacelevelspeck: Oct 1, 2008; communism's sleepiest soldier

also as one of the original architects of the bylaws amendments and one of the 23 cosigners i am proud to call marcus a comrade. he has done more in the past 3 months i've known him to further the cause of socialism than the loving cop fetonte will ever do.

also it's really interesting to be on the receiving end of a COINTELPRO op

# ? Oct 22, 2017 02:56

platzapS: Aug 4, 2007

Syndlig posted:

also as one of the original architects of the bylaws amendments and one of the 23 cosigners i am proud to call marcus a comrade. he has done more in the past 3 months i've known him to further the cause of socialism than the loving cop fetonte will ever do.

also it's really interesting to be on the receiving end of a COINTELPRO op

Is Fetonte still attending meetings or does he send out emails?

# ? Oct 22, 2017 03:12

long-ass nips Diane: Dec 13, 2010; Breathe.

Syndlig posted:

it's not a mailing list, he has everyone's email address saved in his personal email account.

that is far more dastardly than I expected an old rear end man to be

# ? Oct 22, 2017 03:13

Tricky Dick Nixon: Jul 26, 2010; by Nyc_Tattoo

Green Country DSA today in Tulsa ratified our bylaws and collected the necessary signatures to start the process. That's good.

Meanwhile, the budget shortfall in Oklahoma will result in every outpatient mental health program being shut down as well as drug and alcohol court by November 1st, with more cuts to come. This was announced this last Wednesday. That's bad.

We're going to organize a coalition action at a regular meeting held by the governor to demand another legislative special session. That's good.

# ? Oct 22, 2017 03:24

ChickenOfTomorrow: Nov 11, 2012; god damn it, you've got to be kind

apokaladle posted:

There are at least 4 members of the goon caucus here learning to change brake lights and it's loving awesome imo as is socialism

wait what who were the other two?!?!

Tricky Dick Nixon posted:

Green Country DSA today in Tulsa ratified our bylaws and collected the necessary signatures to start the process. That's good.

Meanwhile, the budget shortfall in Oklahoma will result in every outpatient mental health program being shut down as well as drug and alcohol court by November 1st, with more cuts to come. This was announced this last Wednesday. That's bad.

We're going to organize a coalition action at a regular meeting held by the governor to demand another legislative special session. That's good.

Hurrah! Bah! Hurrah!

ChickenOfTomorrow has issued a correction as of 03:32 on Oct 22, 2017

# ? Oct 22, 2017 03:29

surfacelevelspeck: Oct 1, 2008; communism's sleepiest soldier

platzapS posted:

Is Fetonte still attending meetings or does he send out emails?

no, he sends his wife and son to instigate on his behalf while ranting from the comfort of his home.

# ? Oct 22, 2017 04:10

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

Syndlig posted:

no, he sends his wife and son to instigate on his behalf while ranting from the comfort of his home.

have you considered standing outside his home and yelling "LOG OFF" towards him

# ? Oct 22, 2017 07:41

Taintrunner: Apr 10, 2017; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

the bitcoin of weed posted:

have you considered standing outside his home and yelling "LOG OFF" towards him

I WILL NEVER LOG OFF OF LIFE

# ? Oct 22, 2017 07:58

Zythrst: May 31, 2011; Time to join a revolution son, its going to be yooge!

Karl Barks posted:

this really isn't a replacement for robert's rules, it's just how to prepare for a meeting. and you have to know like 5 phrases to be good at robert's rules. it's not that hard

i mean lol

Frontliners here in St. Louis often do something similar to this at the end of spending two hours being stared down by cops.

Zythrst has issued a correction as of 11:06 on Oct 22, 2017

# ? Oct 22, 2017 10:58

khazar sansculotte: May 14, 2004

Robert's Rules are bad and no one follows them correctly anyway (nor should they), so why adopt them? Here are some fun, little-known facts about Robert's Rules that people don't realize until some rear end in a top hat uses them to derail your meeting or even your whole organization:

Open discussion is always out of order under RR. That means no one can raise their hand to say something unless their sentence starts with "I move to..."
Motions cannot be "edited" by their makers. A new motion to amend the previous motion must be made, which then stops discussion on the main motion so that debate and voting can proceed on the amendment. Anyone who deviates from discussion of the text of the amendment itself (including trying to discuss the merits of the main motion as it would stand if the amendment were approved) is out of order.
Nothing other than a majority under FPTP can lawfully elect an officer. Runoffs are not allowed. Got six people splitting the vote for one office? Too loving bad, you have to keep running the vote over and over again until someone gets a majority. Not an ideal system if rival factions emerge in your org (and once they do, it's usually too late to fix this problem).
Anyone who wants to gum up your meeting can do so by demanding a secret ballot be taken for every decision.
Ending debate on a motion requires a two thirds majority, which allows a minority to effectively kill your meeting through perpetual debate if it so chooses.

There are lots of other problems with RR, these are just some of the ways I've personally seen organizations get stuck in quagmires because they unthinkingly adopted RR in their bylaws 40 years ago back when everyone liked each other.

Granted, you can prevent the problems listed above by drafting bylaws provisions that override them, but at that point maybe you should just adopt another set of rules to begin with. There are plenty of alternatives, almost all of them superior: the Modern Rules of Order, Martha's Rules of Order, the Democratic Rules of Order, etc.

# ? Oct 22, 2017 12:40