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I think we should all agree that pedos, rape apologists, and nazies are ok to punch if they try to protest some poo poo.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:06
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Midig posted:I think we should all agree that pedos, rape apologists, and nazies are ok to punch if they try to protest some poo poo. IFM is really scared of being punched tho
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Oct 21, 2017 21:07
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Cool political violence is nice and good against ideological opponents. When the ideology in question is explicitly based on ethnic cleansing? Absolutely. If this was a scuffle about higher/lower taxes or something then sure, no punching, but Nazis are a different beast altogether.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:09
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IMF is just mad he got smacked around a bit, he'll get over it eventually.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:09
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Cool political violence is nice and good against ideological opponents. Nazis are not ideological opponents. They are an existential hazard.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:10
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I just dont think punching Nazis is going to dissuade them from being Nazis. Maybe trying to convince them not to be Nazis would be a better off idea.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:10
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murphyslaw posted:IMF is just mad he got smacked around a bit, he'll get over it eventually. The International Monetary Fund?
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Oct 21, 2017 21:11
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I just dont think punching Nazis is going to dissuade them from being Nazis. Maybe trying to convince them not to be Nazis would be a better off idea. alright chamberlain, calm down
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Oct 21, 2017 21:11
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:The International Monetary Fund? haha oh dang that IS embarrassing
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Oct 21, 2017 21:15
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If violence were not an effective motivator there would be no need to use it on nazis.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:15
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Spangly A posted:alright chamberlain, calm down I dont think you can dissuade a person's ideology with a punch or doxxing them or anything like that.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:17
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On the other hand, recorded history.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:18
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Only punch nazis if you’re doing it with a big knife.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:21
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Hmm yes people are no more or less likely to think being a nazi is OK if we respect the ideology and say hmm well good sir I may not agree with you but I respect your right to say we should lynch the loving blacks and gays and jews instead of just DECKING THE CHINLESS oval office.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:22
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OwlFancier posted:If violence were not an effective motivator there would be no need to use it on nazis. The other problem is that what happens when the Nazis just say gently caress it and start using the same tactics the Marxist Antifa use against them back. I really don't think violence is going to work in the long run and will run the risk of further radicalising the Neo-Nazis and probably alienate the Alt-Right into becoming proper Neo-Nazis and not just ironically.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:22
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:The other problem is that what happens when the Nazis just say gently caress it and start using the same tactics the Marxist Antifa use against them back. I really don't think violence is going to work in the long run and will run the risk of further radicalising the Neo-Nazis and probably alienate the Alt-Right into becoming proper Neo-Nazis and not just ironically. If you let nazis get to the point where they can pose a material threat you didn't start punching them early enough. Beat them and their ideology into the pavement as soon as possible and keep it there. Keep their numbers down and most of them will do nothing more than whine and make sad youtube videos like the big fat cowards they are. Let them organize and speak unmolested and they might feel like they have a chance.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:24
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Cool political violence is nice and good against ideological opponents. When the opponents are Nazis, yes.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:24
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:The other problem is that what happens when the Nazis just say gently caress it and start using the same tactics the Marxist Antifa use against them back. I really don't think violence is going to work in the long run and will run the risk of further radicalising the Neo-Nazis and probably alienate the Alt-Right into becoming proper Neo-Nazis and not just ironically. During that protest, they had to arrest three nazis for using violence. They are not exactly the most peaceful bunch.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:25
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I just dont think punching Nazis is going to dissuade them from being Nazis. Maybe trying to convince them not to be Nazis would be a better off idea. We could try, but I don't think you'll listen.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:26
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:The other problem is that what happens when the Nazis just say gently caress it and start using the same tactics the Marxist Antifa use against them back. I really don't think violence is going to work in the long run and will run the risk of further radicalising the Neo-Nazis and probably alienate the Alt-Right into becoming proper Neo-Nazis and not just ironically. They are doing that right now you disingenuous poo poo. Did you miss the part where they killed a woman with a car? Or the multiple videos of them attacking unarmed and surrendering people, who may or may not be Antifa, with sticks? Besides, they didn't logic themselves into this position. There's no "logical argument" that will dissuade someone from the idea that everything bad in their lives is due to an amorphous and easily defeated but simultaneously omnipresent and terrifying foreign enemy. They're bullies, attacking the weak and feeling justified in doing so. Every time those fuckers march there's a chance someone is going to be killed. Knowing that the world is ready to punch back is the only thing that keeps them in line.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:28
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Really you'd think we hadn't already had this conversation in the 30's with handwringing "moderates" talking up the virtues of just hearing what the fascists have to say maybe they're right about this whole Jewish inferiority thing eh no need to get impolite about it.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:28
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:The other problem is that what happens when the Nazis just say gently caress it and start using the same tactics the Marxist Antifa use against them back. I really don't think violence is going to work in the long run and will run the risk of further radicalising the Neo-Nazis and probably alienate the Alt-Right into becoming proper Neo-Nazis and not just ironically. The nazis started it you loving clown. The punk scene has been dealing with these venemous little shits for decades, and if you care to read up on it, you'll find that there are two outcomes. The nazis are tolerated, whereupon they start bringing their friends and becoming violent entirely on their own towards anyone they deem Other, leading to harassment, assaults and murder; or you can punch those loving nazis and your friends don't get intimidated and beaten. It's a binary choice. Your cowardly inaction has consequences, because by definition they don't want to peacefully coexist
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Oct 21, 2017 21:28
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Midig posted:During that protest, they had to arrest three nazis for using violence. They are not exactly the most peaceful bunch. And I don't see the good in pushing them over the edge until we get Timothy McVeigh 2.0 either. I think you can oppose Nazis and not make them feel welcome without resorting to violence. Wasn't the BNP crushed when Nick Griffin was BTFO on Question Time.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:29
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No not really, they just moved to UKIP. EDL's still a thing too.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:31
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An Ironic Neo-Nazi is still a loving Nazi.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:31
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:And I don't see the good in pushing them over the edge until we get Timothy McVeigh 2.0 either. I think you can oppose Nazis and not make them feel welcome without resorting to violence. Wasn't the BNP crushed when Nick Griffin was BTFO on Question Time. if you wonder why you get asked how old you are a lot its because you're loving clueless. The BNP got crushed because everywhere they went, dedicated people made sure they never got to break past the counterprotestors into the public, where they would attack people. If you actually are older than 15 there is something seriously wrong with you and you need to get help, because your entire contrarian idiot identity is built on never, ever accepting that it's not ok to let nazis beat people up while we try to convince them that actually the holocaust was bad OwlFancier posted:No not really, they just moved to UKIP. Also this; just because you don't see the BNP on the telly doesn't mean I don't have to deal with the same thumb people motherfuckers stomping through my towns, smashing poo poo, trying to attack people.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:32
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:And I don't see the good in pushing them over the edge until we get Timothy McVeigh 2.0 either. I think you can oppose Nazis and not make them feel welcome without resorting to violence. Wasn't the BNP crushed when Nick Griffin was BTFO on Question Time. Considering the BNP still exists, no, no it was not crushed.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:32
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Spangly A posted:The nazis started it you loving clown. The punk scene has been dealing with these venemous little shits for decades, and if you care to read up on it, you'll find that there are two outcomes. The nazis are tolerated, whereupon they start bringing their friends and becoming violent entirely on their own towards anyone they deem Other, leading to harassment, assaults and murder; or you can punch those loving nazis and your friends don't get intimidated and beaten. I just don't believe in using violence against people. I don't know why the University of Florida even let Spencer speak in the first place when he is an open Neo-Nazi in the first place. Honestly it would better if people just no platformed Nazis instead of trying to beat the poo poo out of them.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:34
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I just don't believe in using violence against people. I don't know why the University of Florida even let Spencer speak in the first place when he is an open Neo-Nazi in the first place. Honestly it would better if people just no platformed Nazis instead of trying to beat the poo poo out of them. Because Americans are loving lunatics who will defend the right of nazis to their hate speech much harder than you defend the bizarre idea that we should let violent people do what they want unmolested. They aren't speaking. They travel to attack people. There was no solid legal ground to stop Spencer, and he knows this, and it's his gimmick. He goes to universities, gets court orders to cost them hundreds of thousands paying for security to avoid violence, and then they go outside and shoot people. e; I think that's the most serious and defensible argument I've seen you make and props for that, but again, they shot at someone. That's what they want to do.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:36
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I just don't believe in using violence against people. I somehow doubt you're a committed CO, they are usually much more intelligent.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:37
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Who What Now posted:Considering the BNP still exists, no, no it was not crushed. They have one seat in local government and are considered a national joke. They are virtually crushed.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:37
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Spangly A posted:Because Americans are loving lunatics who will defend the right of nazis to their hate speech much harder than you defend the bizarre idea that we should let violent people do what they want unmolested. They aren't speaking. They travel to attack people. There was no solid legal ground to stop Spencer, and he knows this, and it's his gimmick. He goes to universities, gets court orders to cost them hundreds of thousands paying for security to avoid violence, and then they go outside and shoot people. Wait he can sue the university to force him to speak?
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Oct 21, 2017 21:38
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Killing nazis will never make more nazis. Calling people nazis does not make them into nazis. The nazis are already killers because that’s the only defining feature of a nazi. The only thing killing nazis does is make some realize that they’re not committed to dying or having their lives destroyed, like that fat boy who tore off his polo at Charlottesville when he got cut off from the pack. Kill all nazis, always.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:40
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Nazis will radicalize just fine on their own. De facto acceptance and tolerance will only lead to them being emboldened and will strengthen their resolve no matter how much you shake your head and tsk tsk at them. Until one of them does go Timothy McVeigh 2.0 no matter what you do. Breivik didn't turn into a terrorist because of loving antifa. If they're not sufficiently suppressed by the police, or worse, if the police tolerates and treats them with kid gloves, society will have to find other means to do the police's job.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:40
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OwlFancier posted:I somehow doubt you're a committed CO, they are usually much more intelligent. I know you can do better than another ad hominem attack on me OF
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Oct 21, 2017 21:40
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I mean technically if you just let them do whatever you will reduce the number of terrorist acts because it's not terrorism when the state does it 
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Oct 21, 2017 21:42
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:Wait he can sue the university to force him to speak? Yes, and it is the universities responsibility to provide security, and they are also legally responsible if poo poo kicks off; so that means no Antifa doing volunteer security work.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:42
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Who What Now posted:Considering the BNP still exists, no, no it was not crushed. Which goes to show how many of the BNP's voters were in it for their economic policies and how many were in it for their social policies, given that they switched from a Strasserist party to a 'libertarian non-racist' Tea Party UK edition the minute that the press made the latter look like the more respectable bunch of racists. BNP got reduced to collecting scrap metal to meet their deposits, but the underlying gently caress foreigns sentiment among that voting bloc never went away.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:43
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I know you can do better than another ad hominem attack on me OF I'm being serious, you aren't a pacifist, you're lacking intellectual rigor which is not the same thing.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:43
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murphyslaw posted:Nazis will radicalize just fine on their own. De facto acceptance and tolerance will only lead to them being emboldened and will strengthen their resolve no matter how much you shake your head and tsk tsk at them. Until one of them does go Timothy McVeigh 2.0 no matter what you do. I didn't say they shouldn't be monitored by the police and be arrested for hate crimes. I said that they shouldn't be beaten up by the general public for fear of radicalising them or making them gain sympathy in the eyes of others. If they commit crimes that relate to racial or religious hatred they should arrested, convicted and be placed in jail.
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Oct 21, 2017 21:44
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