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Mors Rattus posted:RE: FFG and progressiveness, it isn't exactly a hugely progressive step so much as a huge step up from where AEG had been but they stopped using a literal racial slur in L5R to refer to the lowest caste. Five Rings Publishing and AEG also banned LGBT characters from Legend of the Five Rings, according to a Mr. Wick. I think Stolze snuck a mention of it into City of Lies and there might be character or two that flew under the radar (out of hundreds and hundreds, mind), but unless anything changed in the final days, it was a taboo subject. Of course, sexuality in general was a taboo subject in L5R, especially after Wick left; ironic given how it frequently the game used pinup art as part of the game's promotion.
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Oct 21, 2017 03:27
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Mors Rattus posted:I'm just saying, when you point at a country whose mores and laws are built almost entirely on industry and profit with no care for social issues beyond that, Saudi Arabia's not it. Right. The country you want is Canada: 
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Oct 21, 2017 03:28
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slap me and kiss me posted:Right. The country you want is Canada: I'm kind of hoping that's not a real advert, but Poe's law.
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Oct 21, 2017 12:37
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Five Rings Publishing and AEG also banned LGBT characters from Legend of the Five Rings, according to a Mr. Wick. I think Stolze snuck a mention of it into City of Lies and there might be character or two that flew under the radar (out of hundreds and hundreds, mind), but unless anything changed in the final days, it was a taboo subject. Of course, sexuality in general was a taboo subject in L5R, especially after Wick left; ironic given how it frequently the game used pinup art as part of the game's promotion. You're right on the money as far as City of Lies goes. In the GM's Guide, p. 24 in Shosuro Gobei's entry: The GM's Guide to Ryoko Owari, p. 24 posted:If he smiles when he's suspected of being a criminal, he has to suppress a loud laugh when he's suspected of being Hyobu's lover. Nothing could be further from the truth. The reason he's never taken a wife is that he likes men instead of women. This is a secret he's careful to keep -- not so much out of shame (homosexuality carries much less of a stigma in Rokugan -- the only reason it might be considered bad is that it might make a samurai less loyal to his daimyo) but because he does enjoy having one secret at least. Kiiiind of side-eyeing that daimyo bit, but there it is anyway.
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Oct 21, 2017 13:32
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Fuego Fish posted:I'm kind of hoping that's not a real advert, but Poe's law. It's real. Later retracted with an apology because of the backlash, but nonetheless real.
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Oct 21, 2017 15:38
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People can post things on the internet, but it doesn't make them smart.
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Oct 21, 2017 15:41
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taichara posted:You're right on the money as far as City of Lies goes. In the GM's Guide, p. 24 in Shosuro Gobei's entry: The daimyo bit is a little weird. Why would it make him less loyal than having a wife to divide his attentions? Also like most warrior cultures, the samurai buggered each other senseless, but in ways and with rules that are weird and arcane to us now but made perfect sense at the time. The real stigma would come from not having a family and children--that was duty man, your first job was to be a cool fightin' samurai of course, but your second job was to make more soldiers for the state.
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Oct 21, 2017 20:22
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That probably would have been better presented as something like "any romantic attachment (as opposed to dutiful marriage) is viewed as potentially interfering with loyalty to one's daimyo"
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Oct 21, 2017 20:26
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I think it's intended to be like the Lavender Panic in our own society - intelligence organizations and government posts were purged of 'known homosexuals' because it was perceived that being gay was a secret you could be blackmailed with. So gay civil servants were to be fired, because they could be blackmailed with their gay behavior, because if it came out they would be fired. You may notice some circular reasoning in that. In any case I imagine the idea was that Rokugan has every other standard prejudice in some form, there ought to be Rokugani homophobia of some degree. Which is an attitudes I've seen in RPG discussion before.
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Oct 21, 2017 20:32
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I imagine FFG's take will actually be pretty okay with the gays, if they bring it up at all, because they've been big on being accurate to historical Japan, culturally - and Japanese samurai were super gay...in certain contexts. I would imagine there will be less master-on-student gay relationships because FFG doesn't want to have to deal with the potential pederasty angle, but nanshoku could definitely still be a thing.
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Oct 21, 2017 20:59
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Rokugan has never actually been portrayed with any degree of homophobia in particular that I can recall. It was always (in that era) a blanket prohibition on having sex, period. Men, women, other men, other women, it didn't matter. If you were getting busy outside the bounds of courtly romance (which was glorious and obviously never consummated) you were in the poo poo. edit: it was, however, particularly harsh on women, something that disappeared almost entirely over the course of the editions. NinjaDebugger fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Oct 21, 2017 |
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Oct 21, 2017 21:16
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NinjaDebugger posted:Rokugan has never actually been portrayed with any degree of homophobia in particular that I can recall. Well, that goes along with deliberately not acknowledging homosexuality. Greg Stolze's work on the line was an anomaly in more ways than one (which might have been why he got cut out pretty bluntly).
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Oct 21, 2017 23:02
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Well, that goes along with deliberately not acknowledging homosexuality. Greg Stolze's work on the line was an anomaly in more ways than one (which might have been why he got cut out pretty bluntly). Yeah, it's one of many MANY things I'm hoping FFG is a lot better on.
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Oct 21, 2017 23:10
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 And this is Frog God's response to the convention harassment and assault incident getting traction https://m.facebook.com/frog.god.games/photos/a.287034224662738.78366.207158595983635/1698454243520722/?type=3&source=48 quote:Another valiant, yet doomed from the outset attempt to oust the mightiest king of the cons...Someone needs to warn people about the consequences of having 'just one more drink' with Frog God CEO Bill Webb at <any convention>. PST fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Oct 22, 2017 |
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Oct 22, 2017 11:58
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PST posted:
The James Ward thing is sadly unsurprising. (Not specifically coming from him, cuz I don't know him, but just the general shittiness of responses to sexual harassment.) That Webb thing though, holy poo poo. "Of course he's a hazard when drunk, which he will definitely be. Watch out, lol!"
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Oct 22, 2017 12:11
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NinjaDebugger posted:Yeah, it's one of many MANY things I'm hoping FFG is a lot better on. Well, the female Champion of the Crane Clan is having an affair with the wife of the Scorpion Clan Champion in the fiction at the moment, so they're at the very least not ignoring it. Not sure what the in-universe attitude towards people who are LGBTQ, but at the very least it doesn't seem sexism is a huge issue.
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Oct 22, 2017 12:16
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That Old Tree posted:The James Ward thing is sadly unsurprising. (Not specifically coming from him, cuz I don't know him, but just the general shittiness of responses to sexual harassment.) A lot of the comments defending Mentzer on his facebook remind me about how close the crossover is between bits of the OSR community and the alt-right.
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Oct 22, 2017 12:20
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Daphnaie posted:Well, the female Champion of the Crane Clan is having an affair with the wife of the Scorpion Clan Champion in the fiction at the moment, so they're at the very least not ignoring it. One of the new Yogo characters seems to be bisexual, also. Granted he's also falling into the "Scorpion seducer" old trope. But then on the other side, again, a male Scorpion seducer trope who's bisexual. If we have to have the seducers at least they aren't all ladies falling out of their kimono this time around? I guess? Bah.
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Oct 22, 2017 13:12
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Bill Webb has had his own run in with harassment allegations, so not surprised at this response from Frog God.
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Oct 22, 2017 13:17
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Do you just innately become a disappointment and a poo poo if you're a straight white dude who spends more than a decade in the industry?
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Oct 22, 2017 13:19
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Fuego Fish posted:Do you just innately become a disappointment and a poo poo if you spend more than a decade in the industry? Pretty much, yes.
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Oct 22, 2017 13:20
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gradenko_2000 posted:Bill Webb has had his own run in with harassment allegations, so not surprised at this response from Frog God. It's literally their/his response to the incident of him harassing one person, and assaulting another at Paizocon having gotten traction and attention again. It's a brazen 'we do what we want, screw you guys'.
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Oct 22, 2017 13:21
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in tangentially related news, it looks like The Escapist is well on its way to getting shuttered
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Oct 22, 2017 13:34
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gradenko_2000 posted:in tangentially related news, it looks like The Escapist is well on its way to getting shuttered 
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Oct 22, 2017 13:45
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That Old Tree posted:The James Ward thing is sadly unsurprising. (Not specifically coming from him, cuz I don't know him, but just the general shittiness of responses to sexual harassment.) What can they add to enabling sexual harassment and alcoholism to make it a hat trick? gradenko_2000 posted:in tangentially related news, it looks like The Escapist is well on its way to getting shuttered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roRQ2mNwMMQ They've been treading water for a while so it's not that surprising.
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Oct 22, 2017 16:16
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How on earth could this have happened. Oh right. You have to go back over a year to find a video that wasn't made by him, and over 2 years to find a video that wasn't a paid advertisement for a lovely moba game and also not made by him. I still love what happened around the time of the video creator exodus. "Hey we want to pay you less for these videos you make for us." "Okay, we'll just stop making them, also you have to take down the videos we let you mirror for free." "But." "Yes."
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Oct 22, 2017 16:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:in tangentially related news, it looks like The Escapist is well on its way to getting shuttered Seems with Escapist and GAF dead the SA forums will finally reclaim their space as the major gaming forum on the net. Let's do this.
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Oct 22, 2017 17:46
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wait what happened to NeoGAF
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Oct 22, 2017 17:56
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gradenko_2000 posted:wait what happened to NeoGAF http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/neogaf-offline-amidst-sex-assault-allegations-against-owner-w509871 Why is rolling stone covering this though
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Oct 22, 2017 17:59
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gradenko_2000 posted:wait what happened to NeoGAF https://imgur.com/a/FJrjx https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3838187&perpage=40
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Oct 22, 2017 18:06
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Holy poo poo what a turn of events thanks for the info
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Oct 22, 2017 18:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:in tangentially related news, it looks like The Escapist is well on its way to getting shuttered Good. quote:all paid staff have been relieved of their duties, with the apparent exception of Yahtzee  as if it needed to be said.
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Oct 22, 2017 21:03
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Plutonis posted:http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news/neogaf-offline-amidst-sex-assault-allegations-against-owner-w509871 If you had the same kind of community but it was for television, it would make sense for Rolling Stone to cover it, right? Video games are about that important these days.
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Oct 22, 2017 21:55
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Why is Yahtzee still with them, do they own his phydoralactery?
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Oct 23, 2017 00:17
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Mors Rattus posted:Why is Yahtzee still with them, do they own his phydoralactery? At a guess I would say that Alexander Macris knows which side his bread is buttered on and is smart enough to not stiff the one real draw the Escapist has had for years, and Yahtzee doesn't care enough to deliberately distance himself from the Escapist so long as the checks keep coming in and he doesn't have to get another day job.
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Oct 23, 2017 00:24
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Seems like Yahtzee could do better without a middleman, presuming he has at least a fraction of the audience he used to. Also, I always like to link to the good old days of the Escapist, and it seems like a good of a time as any to try that again.
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Oct 23, 2017 00:32
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Seems like Yahtzee could do better without a middleman, presuming he has at least a fraction of the audience he used to. Apparently Defy Media (the owners of the Escapist) own the Zero Punctuation trademark and so on. That plus Kai Tave’s correct assessment explain it. Note Macris himself is long gone, working for Milo last I heard.
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Oct 23, 2017 00:35
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Eh, shows how much I know, I wasn't aware that Macris had moved on from the Escapist. Last I heard was him putting out a new edition of Adventurer Conqueror King where he was gonna let Vox Day commission a picture of "SJWs" getting murdered or something, so it would absolutely not surprise me in the least to learn that he was shacking up with Milo now. Yahtzee has some self-published novels and stuff but as far as I'm aware he hasn't tried moving to Patreon or anything and the bar he co-founded seems to have closed a couple years ago so Zero Punctuation is probably his primary source of income. I don't know how much of an audience he'd have if he decided to transition into independent content creation and he might not either, hence deciding to ride Zero Punctuation out as long as he can which in the modern economy I can't really fault him for.
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Oct 23, 2017 00:46
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So to mention a previous discussion, FFG (while far from perfect) has straight up hired staff whose job it is, is to make sure that content is inclusive and inoffensive to people and they've definitely been starting to make efforts to make sure there is a much more respectable spread of gender art and content. I've linked this before but in a setting that traditional sets an entire race as a sex object, their first twi'lek being this felt like it sent a strong message to me.  They've got a long way to go but they've started to include trans character in their work (though its the tentative baby steps and I believe it's written by people who aren't trans though im not 100% sure) doing the whole 'they transitioned in a world of magic' and then pretty much never bringing it up again. I would have a look though and definitely would like someone with a broader view than me to judge: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/legacyofdragonholt/ kingcom fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 00:54
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My exit from Exalted hosed me up. I loved that game, perhaps too much, so I got pretty depressed and later made a big, showy, rear end in a top hat spectacle of myself for an embarrassingly long time. Since then, I've continually struggled with a desire to apologize to Holden and John for how I acted, because however stupid and foot-in-mouth they were, they didn't deserve me lurking in Exalted threads spitting at them. But I couldn't do it, because I wouldn't really mean it. On the other hand, now, I don't feel all that guilty about it anymore, because John made something of a habit of sexual harassment. gently caress this hetero Earth.
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Oct 23, 2017 01:19
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