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P3P taught me that otome games are actually cool and good. P5: The Silver better have a female MC option 
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Oct 22, 2017 21:39
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Is it really a proper otome game without a cage— *thinks about the elevator velvet room*
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Oct 22, 2017 21:43
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Yusuke does have like the worst intro of any party member in the series. And is just creepy until he joins the team and suddenly drops that to become weird and cool? But man that first impression is hard to get over.
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Oct 22, 2017 21:43
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Zore posted:Yusuke does have like the worst intro of any party member in the series. And is just creepy until he joins the team and suddenly drops that to become weird and cool? Honestly if you look back at his first appearances you can tell it's largely part of him being weird and kinda clueless.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:00
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MonsterEnvy posted:Honestly if you look back at his first appearances you can tell it's largely part of him being weird and kinda clueless. yeah honestly even before he joins i got a real strong 'oh this guy just straight up doesn't understand how he comes off because he's so into art' vibe which isn't really an uncommon trope when it comes to the prodigy artist type can't blame people for being a little sensitive about creepiness towards ann when he comes right after kamoshida though
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Oct 22, 2017 22:08
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His whole thing is that he's easily misunderstood and socially awkward, and his first appearances sell that hard.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:11
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putting yusuke's intro directly after kamoshida was a little tone deaf. I never thought he was trying to be a creep but going from the first palace to that was not a great choice imo also kamoshida's stuff makes it weird that you can date the teacher
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Oct 22, 2017 22:25
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Hot take: Ann is the best and I laughed every time she chumped someone with her thespian skills. Remind me who the anime villainness she admires is? It's not Fujiko, right?
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Oct 22, 2017 22:45
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i think it was a gatchaman villain
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Oct 22, 2017 22:47
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Vengarr posted:Hot take: Ann is the best and I laughed every time she chumped someone with her thespian skills. I think it was Fujiko.
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Oct 22, 2017 22:51
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I think someone told me it was supposed to be Doronjo from Yatterman? Admittedly I don't know much about that so I can't really confirm.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:05
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Manatee Cannon posted:ryuji's real problem is that he's kind of a dick. I didn't like the portion of the game where he shits on morgana constantly and then never really apologizes for it Morgana was dumping on him the whole time leading up to it, the cat just couldn't take it back
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Oct 22, 2017 23:10
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Alacron posted:I think someone told me it was supposed to be Doronjo from Yatterman? Admittedly I don't know much about that so I can't really confirm. That's it, thank you. It was on the tip of my tongue.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:13
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they poo poo on each other constantly but morgana was obviously going through something and ryuji drove him off, then kept kicking him while he was down
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Oct 22, 2017 23:13
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Vengarr posted:All of the Phantom Thieves after Ryujii/Ann are lame nerds until they rip their faces off and unleash their inner anime. Ryuji kinda sucks and drags Ann down a fair bit, tbh
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Oct 22, 2017 23:16
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Counterpoint: Ryujii actually owns.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:24
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Ryuji's the best character and most of the phantom thieves that aren't him Yusuke, and Joker just flat out aren't as good, but the rest are okay for the most part
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Oct 22, 2017 23:24
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I like all of Persona 5's cast. But I also liked all of 4's cast too
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Oct 22, 2017 23:25
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Brother Entropy posted:yeah honestly even before he joins i got a real strong 'oh this guy just straight up doesn't understand how he comes off because he's so into art' vibe which isn't really an uncommon trope when it comes to the prodigy artist type Eh, there's social awkwardness and there's 'Nude model for me or I'll get you sent to jail'. He crossed more than a few lines there. Not to mention his intro in ~*Stalker vision*~ He's probably my least favorite Phantom Thief because of that even if he got some good scenes and development later.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:27
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Zore posted:Eh, there's social awkwardness and there's 'Nude model for me or I'll get you sent to jail'. He crossed more than a few lines there. He threatened to send Ryuji and Akira to jail, not Ann.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:41
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Threatening to get her friends arrested isn't much better It's a really badly written part of the game and it's a shame because Yusuke is great otherwise
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Oct 22, 2017 23:51
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hes a sex criminal
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Oct 22, 2017 23:53
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Saagonsa posted:Threatening to get her friends arrested isn't much better They were loving around and spying on him and his mentor, and all he did was want Ann to do what he thought she agreed to. You can blame Akira and Ryuji for putting Ann in that situation in the first place.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:55
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that specific thing definitely felt like the most contrived of the 'gotta set up a deadline to finish the dungeon' excuses
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Oct 22, 2017 23:56
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Ibram Gaunt posted:They were loving around and spying on him and his mentor, and all he did was want Ann to do what he thought she agreed to. You can blame Akira and Ryuji for putting Ann in that situation in the first place. Pressuring her into doing it against her will was bad, as well.
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Oct 22, 2017 23:57
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quite bad!
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Oct 22, 2017 23:57
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that was bad but yusuke didn't know about that. he thought she wanted to do it and that the other two were breaking and entering it was a bad scene all around tho
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Oct 22, 2017 23:58
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Brother Entropy posted:that specific thing definitely felt like the most contrived of the 'gotta set up a deadline to finish the dungeon' excuses What happens if you ignore that one?
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Oct 22, 2017 23:59
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Manatee Cannon posted:that was bad but yusuke didn't know about that. he thought she wanted to do it and that the other two were breaking and entering That whole plot was bad but attributing it all to Yusuke is dumb.
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Oct 23, 2017 00:02
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Yusuke was raised from age 3 by a villainous user, so it's not a surprise he acts somewhat like a villainous user himself while he's still under his abuser's thumb. Looking back on the game it's pretty clear he only wanted to use Ann as a model and didn't have a sexual interest in her, for whatever that's worth. Later on he adopts Sojiro as a role model/father figure and becomes a better person.
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Oct 23, 2017 02:26
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Onomarchus posted:Yusuke was raised from age 3 by a villainous user, so it's not a surprise he acts somewhat like a villainous user himself while he's still under his abuser's thumb. Looking back on the game it's pretty clear he only wanted to use Ann as a model and didn't have a sexual interest in her, for whatever that's worth. Not really Yusuke does not really change from meeting Sojiro. Honestly up until recent years it seemed that Madarame was a decent parent. (Yusuke social link is him going through the exact same stuff that happened to Madarame.) Yusuke never really seems to realize that Ann was uncomfortable being nude for his portrait. And that what he was doing was creepy.
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Oct 23, 2017 03:05
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Yusuke is just kinda socially inept, yeah.
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Oct 23, 2017 03:36
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It's almost as if Persona's writing has always been hit-and-miss.
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Oct 23, 2017 03:40
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MonsterEnvy posted:Not really Yusuke does not really change from meeting Sojiro. Honestly up until recent years it seemed that Madarame was a decent parent. (Yusuke social link is him going through the exact same stuff that happened to Madarame.) Nothing about Madarame was anything but superficially decent
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Oct 23, 2017 04:06
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TheKingofSprings posted:Nothing about Madarame was anything but superficially decent Oh yeah when we meet him of course. Though like others we know he was not always that way. He raised Yusuke since he was 3. Though in the latter years he became exploitative towards him. Madarame was stated to have pretty much went through he same stuff Yusuke did. (Namely being poor, coming upon artist block, and being hurt by the art worlds politics.) In order to get out of being a poor artist he stole his student Yusuke's mom's final work and passed it off as his own. Then adopted Yusuke in both to hide the truth and likely out of some guilt. Eventually deciding that stealing the art of his students made it easy for him to get money and fame now that he was established. He is still a bad person of course. But Yusuke himself stated that he had changed and became full on exploitative rather then the parent he remembered.
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Oct 23, 2017 04:22
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Pureauthor posted:It's almost as if Persona's writing has always been hit-and-miss. I mean, aren't most stories? I'm sure we could all think of serious problems in even our favorite stories. I guess Persona might have more than most but I dunno. If you at all like subtlety, the series is not for you. For my money Innocent Sin is the best Persona plot but it definitely has some noteworthy problems.
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Oct 23, 2017 04:40
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MonsterEnvy posted:Oh yeah when we meet him of course. Though like others we know he was not always that way. He raised Yusuke since he was 3. Though in the latter years he became exploitative towards him. Madarame was stated to have pretty much went through he same stuff Yusuke did. (Namely being poor, coming upon artist block, and being hurt by the art worlds politics.) In order to get out of being a poor artist he stole his student Yusuke's mom's final work and passed it off as his own. Then adopted Yusuke in both to hide the truth and likely out of some guilt. Eventually deciding that stealing the art of his students made it easy for him to get money and fame now that he was established. He raised Yusuke since he was 3 because he let his mom die of a stroke instead of calling for an ambulance
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Oct 23, 2017 05:10
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Yes, but he also genuinely raises Yusuke with genuine care for his well being and there is a massive undertone in Yusuke's confidant storyline that while Madarame did exploit and use him, he did care for him as an actual son. Like Madarame would be an actual interesting character if they didn't just make him a cartoon villain in the second arc of the game and then leave it to Yusuke and Sojiro's conversation and Yusuke's story to give him any more characterization beyond crazy egomaniacal bastard that rings hollow after he killed Yusuke's mother.NikkolasKing posted:I mean, aren't most stories? I'm sure we could all think of serious problems in even our favorite stories. I guess Persona might have more than most but I dunno. If you at all like subtlety, the series is not for you. Persona legitimately has subtle writing in a decent bout of places. Then it sometimes hammers you over the head with the most heavy handed poo poo like most of P4's writing. It's worth criticizing because it allows certain aspects of the story to be realized as the achievements they are and in other places as massive duds, but some may not feel the same way and that is why this discussion occurs. Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 05:16
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Captain Baal posted:Persona legitimately has subtle writing in a decent bout of places. Then it sometimes hammers you over the head with the most heavy handed poo poo like most of P4's writing. It's worth criticizing because it allows certain aspects of the story to be realized as the achievements they are and in other places as massive duds, but some may not feel the same way and that is why this discussion occurs. I never felt so beaten over the head by a story element as whenever P5 talked about "those rotten adults." If it was just our teenager protagonists being typical self-centered teenagers that be good characterization and i wouldn't mind it so much. But we have actual adults begging for forgiveness for the sins of all adults, including Sae literally promising to try and redeem all of adult-dom. It made me cringe every single time without fail.
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Oct 23, 2017 05:53
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P5 is literally not about that. It is about people in positions of power exploiting their power for their own personal gain and people being either unable or unwilling to do anything about this. Like the end of the game slightly becomes about more of what you're talking about, but even then it's treated as a shared issue amongst Japan as opposed to adults. P5 gets very over the top with its message, social commentary, and character drama a lot, but the thing you are saying is not something it ever addresses. Also, asking for the cast to be treated self-centered teenagers is really reductive and would make for a much less interesting story or cast because it is basically asking the audience to look down upon the main characters from the get go.
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Oct 23, 2017 06:04
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