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NewForumSoftware posted:Look at this sweet summer child who's not yet inoculated against WhiskeyJuvenile's turbotrolling It's more than one guy, probably about 50% of this thread right now. Kinda scares me. Everyone's swearing that they will never vote Democrat again, and I believe them and that they represent quite a large constituency of disillusioned young left-wing voters. I don't even think they'd be happy if the Democrats suddenly turned into Bernie clones - still too far right. Better fascism than Clintonism seems to be the theme.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:15
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Anyone see the 60 mins piece on Bill Koch? He might be a better argument for wheeling out the guillotines than even his brothers.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:16
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BarbarianElephant posted:It's more than one guy, probably about 50% of this thread right now. Kinda scares me.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:17
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mcmagic posted:Anyone see the 60 mins piece on Bill Koch? He might be a better argument for wheeling out the guillotines than even his brothers. You have come a long way since the last few elections mcmagic 
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Oct 23, 2017 17:17
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BarbarianElephant posted:It's more than one guy, probably about 50% of this thread right now. Kinda scares me. Everyone's swearing that they will never vote Democrat again, and I believe them and that they represent quite a large constituency of disillusioned young left-wing voters. I don't even think they'd be happy if the Democrats suddenly turned into Bernie clones - still too far right. Better fascism than Clintonism seems to be the theme. I mean there's about a dozen posters (with about a half dozen that are the most active) who were very vocal Bernie supporters who never got over his loss and made it their mission in life to post about how The Democrats are a Waste and their dumb threads keep getting gassed so they've moved to this one. It's a vocal minority of left-leaning young people, mostly white men. If the democratic nominee in 2020 is any good (and at least little to the left of where HRC was perceived to be) most of them will probably vote for him or her, but a few will loudly hold out for Full Communism or whatever. If the democratic nominee is someone who is perceived to be a centrist it might be a problem. So, in conclusion, don't support a centrist in 2020 if you want to win. It's a fine line between "liberal enough for the Bernie crew" and "to liberal for persuadable voters", but there are probably candidates that would work. I'd suggest, Warren, Franken, or Sherrod Brown. Stay away from Hickenlooper, Booker, and (unfortunately) Harris. Ogmius815 fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 17:22
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Ogmius815 posted:If the democratic nominee is someone who is perceived to be a centrist it might be a problem. Problem is, they consider about 95% of the Democratic politicians out there to be "centrists" so odds are one of them will be running.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:24
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https://twitter.com/maryellenmurr/status/922295795734507520
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Oct 23, 2017 17:26
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BarbarianElephant posted:Problem is, they consider about 95% of the Democratic politicians out there to be "centrists" so odds are one of them will be running. I think there are probably democrats that could capture the Bernie crowd without alienating persuadable voters too much though. If nominate a more liberal candidate feels like giving in to a bunch of whiny fucktards, sure. But that's politics mate. EDIT: I mean theres always a few people who are very hardcore isolationists and anarchists, but these people have always existed and were never going to vote for democrats anyway. Ogmius815 fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 17:26
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Ogmius815 posted:persuadable voters Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 17:34
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This has made me sad. I'm sad now.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:35
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BarbarianElephant posted:It's more than one guy, probably about 50% of this thread right now. Kinda scares me. Everyone's swearing that they will never vote Democrat again, and I believe them and that they represent quite a large constituency of disillusioned young left-wing voters. I don't even think they'd be happy if the Democrats suddenly turned into Bernie clones - still too far right. Better fascism than Clintonism seems to be the theme. NFS is the poster child for what you're talking about. Some real quality " I'll be fine posts" from that one leading up to the election.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:36
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Ogmius815 posted:I mean there's about a dozen posters (with about a half dozen that are the most active) who were very vocal Bernie supporters who never got over his loss and made it their mission in life to post about how The Democrats are a Waste and their dumb threads keep getting gassed so they've moved to this one. It's a vocal minority of left-leaning young people, mostly white men. If the democratic nominee in 2020 is any good (and at least little to the left of where HRC was perceived to be) most of them will probably vote for him or her, but a few will loudly hold out for Full Communism or whatever. If the democratic nominee is someone who is perceived to be a centrist it might be a problem. none of the dems are a waste threads got gassed og
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Oct 23, 2017 17:38
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This sort of thing feels like the precursor to something really bad. No one is fooled by this sort of poo poo and it only makes it more obvious we are being mistreated. If the Democrats try to show up to debates in 2019 with a bunch of "this is why Trump is bad" instead of "here is how I will at least try to make your life better" they are going to be very shocked come November.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:38
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BarbarianElephant posted:It's more than one guy, probably about 50% of this thread right now. Kinda scares me. Everyone's swearing that they will never vote Democrat again, and I believe them and that they represent quite a large constituency of disillusioned young left-wing voters. I don't even think they'd be happy if the Democrats suddenly turned into Bernie clones - still too far right. Better fascism than Clintonism seems to be the theme. this is ridiculous
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Oct 23, 2017 17:39
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Koalas March posted:You have come a long way since the last few elections mcmagic How so?
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Oct 23, 2017 17:41
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It's possible to poo poo on the Democrats for being lovely while also not wanting Repubs to take power. Instead of grousing about why people won't vote for your party, why not try to, I don't know, appeal to them instead of threatening them with death by republican if you don't vote for them?
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Oct 23, 2017 17:42
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Also the left wingers I'm seeing are the most unhappy with fascism and want to Democrats to shift not only because of ideology, but because it's clear the current course doesn't win elections and something needs to be changed. It would be one thing if leftists were complaining while the Democrats were sweeping positions across the country, but the reality is they are becoming less and less popular to the populace at large and unable to even act as a minimal stop gap against Republican evil.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:43
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Radish posted:This sort of thing feels like the precursor to something really bad. No one is fooled by this sort of poo poo and it only makes it more obvious we are being mistreated. They will actually try to do that next year, so maybe in time for 2019 they might learn. But it's probably going to take Trump winning re-election.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:43
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Centrist fear leftists. Good.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:43
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BrandorKP posted:NFS is the poster child for what you're talking about. Some real quality " I'll be fine posts" from that one leading up to the election. I'd have to vote Democrat first to not vote Democrat again just lol if you've cast a vote for one of the genocidal war criminals they've passed off as candidates unless you live in a battleground state
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Oct 23, 2017 17:44
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Condiv posted:this is ridiculous If a bunch of people are trying to tell you that this is something they perceive, you continuing to say "Then why do i say it isn't" is really frustrating. In actual news, bloomberg continues to be incredibly lovely. https://twitter.com/BrianSchoeneman/status/922459414195589125 I am all for the gun control, but the glaring omission here can't be by mistake.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:45
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Iron Twinkie posted:It's only reasonable and sane as a world leader to work to acquire and maintain the largest number of weapons of mass destruction you can as quickly as possible to protect your country from being completely ratfucked by the United States. If you ever work with us and voluntarily disarm, we will destroy your country and laugh about your dead body rotting in a ditch. Thankfully, that's not always the case - countries like South Africa, Brazil, and Argentina gave up their nuclear programs peacefully, and did so in cooperation with the U.S. Of course, Libya provides a nasty counter-example, and it's the one that's freshest in other governments' minds. But I do think it's possible for the international community to get back to a place where the trend is back towards disarmament. It's just going to take a lot of hard work (and a completely different U.S. government) to get back to that place.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:45
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Radish posted:It would be one thing if leftists were complaining while the Democrats were sweeping positions across the country, but the reality is they are becoming less and less popular to the populace at large and unable to even act as a minimal stop gap against Republican evil. US politics has a flip-flop quality, which means that Democrats will be able to run a bent spoon for office in 2024 and win after Trump has hosed people over for long enough and caused a recession. That's how they got a bunch of racists to vote for a black man in 2008.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:46
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Majorian posted:Thankfully, that's not always the case - countries like South Africa, Brazil, and Argentina gave up their nuclear programs peacefully, and did so in cooperation with the U.S. Of course, Libya provides a nasty counter-example, and it's the one that's freshest in other governments' minds. But I do think it's possible for the international community to get back to a place where the trend is back towards disarmament. It's just going to take a lot of hard work (and a completely different U.S. government) to get back to that place. What idiots would trust the USA now? If you make a deal with Democrats it's worthless to Republicans. With maximum 8 year term limits, long term deals with the USA are going to start to look pretty foolish.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:48
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BarbarianElephant posted:US politics has a flip-flop quality, which means that Democrats will be able to run a bent spoon for office in 2024 and win after Trump has hosed people over for long enough and caused a recession. That's how they got a bunch of racists to vote for a black man in 2008. Oh lol. Now to the pedulum swing argument. Such a naive argument. Also lol at the do nothing because Trump will just screw everything up. This is why you and the rest of the losers get bullied. Oh also the fact they voted Obama was he offered and was admittedly lying about change. Its also why they voted Trump.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:52
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:If a bunch of people are trying to tell you that this is something they perceive, you continuing to say "Then why do i say it isn't" is really frustrating. i can understand how being wrong is frustrating. people have already explained their views at length, and "bernie's a centrist  " or "i'll never ever vote for the dems again!!" isn't a thing people other than wj are sayingif you're not understanding what people are saying in their posts i would suggest you go and reread the posts and ponder on them Condiv fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 17:52
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BarbarianElephant posted:What idiots would trust the USA now? At this point in time, and probably for the next decade or so, not too many governments. But Obama managed to get some genuinely important poo poo done in terms of bilateral and multilateral arms control, after Bush completely set fire to the international disarmament regime. True, Trump would love to upend it all if he could, purely out of spite, but it looks to me like he might not be able to, at least right now. He's not going to be able to undo New-START, and he might not even be able to kill the Iran deal. More importantly, though, there are reasons for governments to dismantle their WMD programs that don't require trust in the U.S., chief among them the prevailing international disarmament norm. As well as, of course, the fear that the U.S. will flip out and invade, like the nitwits that we are.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:05
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Crowsbeak posted:Oh lol. Now to the pedulum swing argument. Such a naive argument. Also lol at the do nothing because Trump will just screw everything up. This is why you and the rest of the losers get bullied. Oh also the fact they voted Obama was he offered and was admittedly lying about change. Its also why they voted Trump. It'd be real nice if Americans actually understood that the president, by constitutional definition, cannot make sweeping changes like they want and need, and if you wanna change things you have to do it in congress and in state level elections, but it's really hard to do that so let's just elect one after another and keep bitching about it instead. NewForumSoftware posted:I'd have to vote Democrat first to not vote Democrat again Arguing against lesser evil stuff is especially stupid now, in the the age of Trump, and if you don't think referring to them all as genocidal war criminals constantly doesn't affect the way battleground states vote, I've got a bridge to sell you.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:05
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BarbarianElephant posted:It's more than one guy, probably about 50% of this thread right now. Kinda scares me. Everyone's swearing that they will never vote Democrat again, and I believe them and that they represent quite a large constituency of disillusioned young left-wing voters. I don't even think they'd be happy if the Democrats suddenly turned into Bernie clones - still too far right. Better fascism than Clintonism seems to be the theme. YOU POSTIN' BAD
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Oct 23, 2017 18:07
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The posts about not voting or not voting Democratic are just so strange to me. I understand the frustration at not being progressive enough or sure of their convictions. How do some expect to enact their preferred policies without them? I disagree with the idea of not voting and think that voting Democratic (in contested elections/swing states, anyways) is definitely the best option, but I can understand the mindset behind not voting. It might help if you image a situation where Donald Trump was running against John McCain for President. In such a situation, McCain would definitely be the lesser of two evils and voting for him would be the optimal choice, but it's not very hard for me to understand why someone would think "I don't want to give my support to either of these people." I think that many liberals don't understand that some people on the left view elections like the one in 2016 like this, rather than a "good, but not ideal, candidate vs bad one" situation. Like, to reiterate, I disagree with that logic, but I can still understand why someone who isn't an idiot might feel that way.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:11
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Prediction: Democrats will get back into power and normalize all of Trumps policies.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:12
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:It'd be real nice if Americans actually understood that the president, by constitutional definition, cannot make sweeping changes like they want and need, and if you wanna change things you have to do it in congress and in state level elections, but it's really hard to do that so let's just elect one after another and keep bitching about it instead Nice attempt to change the subject. The dems are losers and deserve to lose if they keep their current trajectory up. Power_of_the_glory posted:Prediction: Democrats will get back into power and normalize all of Trumps policies. Of course they will.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:13
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farraday posted:I don't owe you 30 seconds of blatantly obvious google searching, which, btw you're kind of poo poo at because Sharron Cooks is not a member of the DNC, she was a delegate to the convention. twodot fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 18:14
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BarbarianElephant posted:It's more than one guy, probably about 50% of this thread right now. I missed this earlier, but that's almost certainly not true. Name names, so we can count.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:17
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Majorian posted:I missed this earlier, but that's almost certainly not true. Name names, so we can count. I'm lazy, just count all the guys who've replied to me with something like "YOU POSTIN BAD"
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Oct 23, 2017 18:23
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Someone asked about the wokeness of Thomas Frank and my answer is that he is more right than wrong and he definitely has the Dems number on how they're loving up and how they got there.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:23
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Crowsbeak posted:Nice attempt to change the subject. The dems are losers and deserve to lose if they keep their current trajectory up. If you haven't noticed, I wasn't part of this conversation until I made that post, so it's not so much "changing the subject" as just a new perspective. Get in a pissing match with someone who cares, dude.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:25
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More white terrorists that the media chooses not to cover https://twitter.com/MichaelSocolow/status/922510755181793280 Ytlaya posted:I disagree with the idea of not voting and think that voting Democratic (in contested elections/swing states, anyways) is definitely the best option, but I can understand the mindset behind not voting. Thanks, I really am trying to understand the left on this, and this helps. How would the leftist folks in here feel about Al Franken at this point? would he generate excitement and interest, or is he seen as more of the same?
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Oct 23, 2017 18:26
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Power_of_the_glory posted:Prediction: Democrats will get back into power and normalize all of Trumps policies.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:26
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BarbarianElephant posted:It's more than one guy, probably about 50% of this thread right now. Kinda scares me. Everyone's swearing that they will never vote Democrat again, and I believe them and that they represent quite a large constituency of disillusioned young left-wing voters. I don't even think they'd be happy if the Democrats suddenly turned into Bernie clones - still too far right. Better fascism than Clintonism seems to be the theme. I'm sorry, but I don't think there anything anyone can really do about this sort of bizarre paranoia you have. Disliking some leftists personally is understandable, but it sorta crosses a line once you start honestly thinking they're a threat in some way. If you actually read some of the left-wing threads (like suck zone in C-SPAM or something), most people on this forum (which is considerably more left-leaning than the general American public) support Sanders, even if they view him as a compromise candidate. I've said this before, but I think what you should really be thinking about is why this bothers and concerns you so much. There's not really any evidence that people being too far left is a primary cause of people not voting (what evidence we have seems to indicate that Sanders voters - which as far as I know is the only real proxy we have for left-leaning Democrats - voted to a pretty normal extent in the general election), so it seems like this is more about a weird personal grievance you have with leftists. The people you're complaining about are the only reason the Democrats started to shift to the left, at least in terms of their rhetoric and platform, during and after the 2016 primary. If all Democrats were positive and supportive of the party, nothing would ever change. It seems like the reason this criticism bothers you is based more out of some sort of personal insecurity than it is some legitimate concerns about a hypothetical negative impact leftists might have (which basically just seems like a post hoc justification for the way you feel). My speculation is that, in my cases, this is due to liberals facing significant criticism from their left to an extent that hasn't really happened in recent decades. I think a lot of this "anti-leftist" (for lack of a better term) sentiment is a sort of defensive thing so some liberals can preserve their idea of "where they stand" in the American political environment, though I'm sure there are other reasons as well that I'm not aware of.
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Oct 23, 2017 18:26
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