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fallenturtle posted:And people should poo poo down my throat because I believe that some irrational ideas held by some people can be dispelled? poor you, so persecuted online. well i guess you have no recourse but to be a nazi now to show us mean liberals what for fallenturtle posted:I don't think the situation today compares to the civil rights movement fifty years ago, at least as far as the contemporary battle against Nazis is concerned. That was fighting a majority, this is fighting a minority. There are parallels for sure, but I think the scope is quite different. The civil rights movement was in support of an uprising against the standard quo. Punching Nazis is about suppressing an uprising of bigotry and hate. a majority of americans still believe in a soft white supremacy, look at how many people are freaking out about the NFL protests, want to run over BLM protesters in the street, equate antifa and BLM, etc. the only reason it appears there is any public sympathy for nazis is because the general american public who supports and benefits from the soft white supremacist state can't make up their mind if actual literal nazis are just as bad as black people who say the police kill black people unjustly. this is exactly what trump was referencing when he said "both sides" were responsible you're also missing my point about referencing the civil rights movement. i'm not saying they're the same thing (where did you get that idea from? read!) but that public reactions are similar - in twenty years, it turns out everyone will have supported BLM all along and never agreed with the nazis, no sir nope not us
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Oct 24, 2017 20:19
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fallenturtle posted:I don't think the situation today compares to the civil rights movement fifty years ago, at least as far as the contemporary battle against Nazis is concerned. That was fighting a majority, this is fighting a minority. There are parallels for sure, but I think the scope is quite different. The civil rights movement was in support of an uprising against the standard quo. Punching Nazis is about suppressing an uprising of bigotry and hate. half of white americans think black people and white people face equal amounts of discrimination.
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Oct 24, 2017 20:20
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boner confessor posted:i dont know why you think this audience doesn't exist, unless you're just assuming it doesn't because otherwise your argument would fall apart quote:historically this does not appear to be the case. americans have learned to say they accept the civil rights movement as a heroic turning point in america, but they're still racist as gently caress quote:one reason we are not on this precipice is because nazis have been getting punched for decades Do you have evidence that supports this claim? I would counter that we're not on a precipice because most Americans believe that Nazi ideology is sick and immoral. quote:you also don't seem to understand my argument. people who sympathize with nazis but not openly can be forced into submission via shaming. this is how we prevent people from being more openly racist in this country. it's not a perfect solution but it works Then you best quick get on the horn with Mouthy Buddha and tell him that he's a fatty fatty fat fat because he staring into the abyss. quote:not only are you wrong for reasons i've repeated to you numerous times but, for someone advocating persuasion, you are terrible at it I love you too.
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Oct 24, 2017 20:52
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boner confessor posted:poor you, so persecuted online. well i guess you have no recourse but to be a nazi now to show us mean liberals what for quote:a majority of americans still believe in a soft white supremacy, look at how many people are freaking out about the NFL protests, want to run over BLM protesters in the street, equate antifa and BLM, etc. White people are are naive about the daily lives of people of color and they have prejudices ingrained in them because of society dark past. We have different takes. I think they are ignorant and need to be led to the light. You seem to assume they are hopelessly racist stupid fuckheads. quote:the only reason it appears there is any public sympathy for nazis is because the general american public who supports and benefits from the soft white supremacist state can't make up their mind if actual literal nazis are just as bad as black people who say the police kill black people unjustly. this is exactly what trump was referencing when he said "both sides" were responsible quote:you're also missing my point about referencing the civil rights movement. i'm not saying they're the same thing (where did you get that idea from? read!) but that public reactions are similar - in twenty years, it turns out everyone will have supported BLM all along and never agreed with the nazis, no sir nope not us quote:the problem isn't that people like the nazis too much. the problem is that people dislike rocking the boat enough to where they put the nazis and the nazi haters in the same category of troublemakers. as i said before, this is exactly how the white majority of americans dismissed the civil rights movement fifty years ago
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Oct 24, 2017 21:08
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Groovelord Neato posted:half of white americans think black people and white people face equal amounts of discrimination. We should correct them.
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Oct 24, 2017 21:08
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Nazis don't need wide spread support. All they need is for the majority to be unwilling to take any significant action against them. Then, when they are finally in control, most people will just shrug their shoulders and go, "Gee, I don't like how they're lynching black people, putting anyone who looks 'Muslim-y' in internment camps, and deporting anyone who is Hispanic or speaks a second language... but what can you do?" It's not rocket science.
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Oct 24, 2017 21:10
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Nice triple-post.
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Oct 24, 2017 21:10
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I don't believe for a second that people are merely being naive when they react to explicit police violence protests with deflections about the flag or "all lives".
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Oct 24, 2017 21:19
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Motto posted:I don't believe for a second that people are merely being naive when they react to explicit police violence protests with deflections about the flag or "all lives". i do, there's more stupid people out there than there are calculatingly dishonest people
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Oct 24, 2017 21:20
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boner confessor posted:i do, there's more stupid people out there than there are calculatingly dishonest people "Blue lives matter" people, on the other hand, are definitely not just stupid or naive. Considering how they seem to have adopted the Punisher logo as their defacto symbol, they know exactly what they're about.
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Oct 24, 2017 21:24
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aware of dog posted:"Blue lives matter" people, on the other hand, are definitely not just stupid or naive. Considering how they seem to have adopted the Punisher logo as their defacto symbol, they know exactly what they're about. imo a lot of these cops and robbers idiots would totally advocate a colorblind, mid-90's style vacant opinion on the benefits of racial tolerance, and would immediately tell you about the black person in their lives that they are closest to just because they're too simple to connect the dots on what blue lives matter actually means doesn't necessarily mean that they're aware of their own internal racism. these are the kinds of people who say racist things out of sheer ignorance and then get all mad that you point out they said something racist because they've decided they aren't racist, so they aren't, so shut up nerd like it's really just incredible how many people there are walking around today who simply do not ever critically think about their beliefs in a political or social context. i didn't really get the idea of functional illiteracy and how even today in 2017 something like a quarter of americans are functionally illiterate
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Oct 24, 2017 21:26
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Who What Now posted:Nice triple-post. Thanks! 
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Oct 24, 2017 21:38
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a lot of people are just dumb and like boner confessor said can't grasp their own racism. it's like how a lot of white people say "all lives matter" because they read/hear "black lives matter" as "[ONLY] black lives matter". they don't realize how racist it is to assume that meaning. when you're used to absolute power, equality can seem like oppression. it's the same mindset where a person isn't actually racist unless they use slurs or express outwardly a negative opinion of a race. they don't realize that you're just as racist if you whine about football players kneeling while being utterly silent when a 12 year old is murdered by police.
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Oct 24, 2017 22:06
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Monglo posted:It's a hard sell to say that every person that identifies with nationalism desires for mass murders and genocide. It's very easy to say that they're probably fine with it as long as it's being done to foreigners though, that's sort of the core of nationalism. fallenturtle posted:Can someone remind me why Avenging_Mikon has me on ignore? What you are persistently failing to grasp is that all of your arguments for how to get "public perception on your side" amount to respectability politics and giving nazis free reign to assemble, which historically has not worked. And you're wilfully blind to that, presumably out of some bizzare belief in liberalism to conquer everything if you just let the free marketplace of ideas do its own thing. Which is really loving stupid and contrary to all historical evidence. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 22:14
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OwlFancier posted:
But I'm not arguing to let them freely assemble... I'm arguing we need to get public perception on our side in order to get hate speech laws passed so as to suppress their legal ability to assemble.
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Oct 24, 2017 22:42
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fallenturtle posted:But I'm not arguing to let them freely assemble... I'm arguing we need to get public perception on our side in order to get hate speech laws passed so as to suppress their legal ability to assemble. ... by not doing anything to stop them assembling lest the precious public construe it as provokation... You seem to believe that nazism is an inherently unattractive ideology and that people will naturally dislike it when exposed to it, which is nonsense. If you let fascists assemble and promote their ideology, what makes you think people will object to that? They haven't objected to it enough in the previous seventy years to pass any laws about it, why would they start now? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 22:42
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fallenturtle posted:But I'm not arguing to let them freely assemble... I'm arguing we need to get public perception on our side in order to get hate speech laws passed so as to suppress their legal ability to assemble. your argument is dumb and wrong because you inaccurately think the public approves of nazi behavior. in fact, the public are milquetoast centrists (like you) who disapprove of nazi behavior and approve of clamping down on nazis so long as it does not involve any violence at all or take any effective action towards actually silencing nazis. you're placing a higher value on decorum and rational discussion based on mutually agreed facts over the value you place on silencing nazis OwlFancier posted:You seem to believe that nazism is an inherently unattractive ideology and that people will naturally dislike it when exposed to it, which is nonsense. naziism is inherently unattractive. to many people, so is stridently opposing the nazis, because this pops the little safe bubble that everything is ok and if we all just stop talking about it the problem will go away. this is why nobody openly defends the nazis, instead they twist themselves into knots trying to say how both sides are wrong and how i don't like the nazis, but i don't like the not-nazis either, blah blah blah 
boner confessor fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 22:45
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fallenturtle posted:But I'm not arguing to let them freely assemble... I'm arguing we need to get public perception on our side in order to get hate speech laws passed so as to suppress their legal ability to assemble. The depressing thing is that any kind of hate speech law can and will be turned against any leftists trying to organize or protest, and never to the Nazi groups it was meant to target. Charlottesville gave us a KKK grand dragon drawing a gun and firing on peaceful protestors, while police just stood and watched. That is what a law-and-order response to fascist organizing looks like.
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Oct 24, 2017 22:54
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boner confessor posted:naziism is inherently unattractive. to many people, so is stridently opposing the nazis, because this pops the little safe bubble that everything is ok and if we all just stop talking about it the problem will go away. this is why nobody openly defends the nazis, instead they twist themselves into knots trying to say how both sides are wrong and how i don't like the nazis, but i don't like the not-nazis either, blah blah blah While there are self evidently some people like that and I'm talking to one ITT, I would characterise that as a function of circumstance. Some people are able to sustain that belief that everything is fine, because things are fine enough for them, or because they aspire for things to be fine to them same as some conservatives aspire to be able to say FYGM one day. But circumstances change, with hardship comes a rejection of that belief and the society that promotes it, and at that point radical alternatives become appealing. Fascism being one of them. It is not inherently unattractive, it is unattractive to people who don't need it, and people who hold opposing views already. But if liberalism is your opposing view, that's not very comforting, because that's predicated on you sustaining the belief that, as you say, everything is fine. That doesn't last, the more people lose their jobs and have money problems and live in a society that doesn't really care about integrating its various ethnicities, a liberal society, in essence, the more that they will lose that belief. It isn't inherent, it's at best, temporary and fragile.
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Oct 24, 2017 22:55
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fallenturtle posted:Can someone remind me why Avenging_Mikon has me on ignore Someone quoted this, so in knowing it exists I’ll answer. I have you on ignore because you’re not arguing a position, you’re stating your feelings. And because it’s your feelings you’re going to keep bitching about how you’re being misunderstood and how come people can’t see your very reasonable point. Why don’t we want positive press or good optics like you keep going on about? Because the opposition is NAZIS. Anyone who needs convincing that Nazis are bad is someone who is useless to your side. Some truths are self evident and Nazi evil is among those. If you need to hold back in fighting Nazis to win an optics battle you have ALREADY LOST.
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Oct 24, 2017 23:01
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On the other hand while I wholly agree that nazis are anathema to a worthwhile society, I don't think that's self evident. If you take vulgar leftism and replace "the rich" with "the Jews" and change your concept of utopia from global to national prosperity, you have vulgar fascism. Both appeal to people looking for someone to blame for the state their life's in and a sense of common cause with people they identify with, the difference is only one of them's right.
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Oct 24, 2017 23:06
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OwlFancier posted:... by not doing anything to stop them assembling lest the precious public construe it as provocation... You can't legally stop them from assembling without a law. quote:You seem to believe that nazism is an inherently unattractive ideology and that people will naturally dislike it when exposed to it, which is nonsense. quote:If you let fascists assemble and promote their ideology, what makes you think people will object to that? quote:They haven't objected to it enough in the previous seventy years to pass any laws about it, why would they start now? boner confessor posted:your argument is dumb and wrong because you inaccurately think the public approves of nazi behavior. in fact, the public are milquetoast centrists (like you) who disapprove of nazi behavior and approve of clamping down on nazis so long as it does not involve any violence at all or take any effective action towards actually silencing nazis. you're placing a higher value on decorum and rational discussion based on mutually agreed facts over the value you place on silencing nazis I don't think the public approves of Nazi behavior... they put up with it because they believe its just hot hair and that expelling such hot air is a protected right. I'm amused how on the Sean Hannity forums I'm considered a radical leftist and here I'm apparently a centrist. I think I'll stick with just calling myself a liberal. fallenturtle fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 23:09
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fallenturtle posted:You can't legally stop them from assembling without a law. fallenturtle posted:I disagree. I think to the average American it is an unattractive ideology... that's why they have to repackage it as an attack on white culture. That isn't repackaging, that's the same packaging it's always been in. Where do you think cultural bolshevism comes from? That (((the other))) is within our society, corrupting it from within and leading us to decadence is a founding principle of fascism. They believe it has to be rooted out by strength of superior culture and a superior race in order to secure prosperity. This is not even remotely new. fallenturtle posted:Because plenty of people do object to it.. the only reason they let it slide is because of the 1st Amendment. And why do you believe that they will object to it once they hear fascists telling them why their lives are poo poo? Did you not pay attention during last year's election? We tried "everything is fine let's have polite discourse and carry on" versus nationalism, racism, and the promise of radical change, turns out a massive number of Americans are super down with that, as is the case in every country in the world, because fascism appeals to people in poor conditions. And precious fewer every year are hanging onto the old lie that everything's fine. fallenturtle posted:They have to be convinced its worth it. fallenturtle posted:I don't think the public approves of Nazi behavior... they put up with it because they believe its just hot hair and that expelling such hot air is a protected right. You believe that, and you're projecting that belief on everyone else. For some fascism offers a hope of change in their lives for the better, which maintaining the status quo does not. You don't answer that by letting fascists assemble and spread their beliefs because it isn't just hot air. It's a serious desire manifesting as a serious and dangerous ideology. It isn't immediately self defeating however much you think it is. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 24, 2017 23:17
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fallenturtle posted:You can't legally stop them from assembling without a law. You can't fix fascism through a law-and-order mentality. They are law and order taken to its logical extreme. You won't get the police to break up the people who want a police state.
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Oct 24, 2017 23:26
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Goon Danton posted:The depressing thing is that any kind of hate speech law can and will be turned against any leftists trying to organize or protest, and never to the Nazi groups it was meant to target. Charlottesville gave us a KKK grand dragon drawing a gun and firing on peaceful protestors, while police just stood and watched. That is what a law-and-order response to fascist organizing looks like. That's a legitimize danger. Avenging_Mikon posted:Someone quoted this, so in knowing it exists I'll answer. quote:I have you on ignore because you're not arguing a position, you're stating your feelings. quote:And because it's your feelings you're going to keep bitching about how you're being misunderstood and how come people can't see your very reasonable point. quote:Why don't we want positive press or good optics like you keep going on about? Because the opposition is NAZIS. Anyone who needs convincing that Nazis are bad is someone who is useless to your side. Some truths are self evident and Nazi evil is among those. If you need to hold back in fighting Nazis to win an optics battle you have ALREADY LOST. Anyway, I'm sorry if I upset you.
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Oct 24, 2017 23:30
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fallenturtle posted:I'm not a Vulcan and if I feel enough about a position to argue about it online then I'm going to have feelings... not sure why that means I don't have a position to argue. "look, just because my argument is incoherent and i refuse to listen to anyone or ever stop repeating myself endlessly doesn't mean i dont have feelings, which is what matters most in an internet argument. anyway, sorry if i hurt your fee-fees" fallenturtle posted:I'm not arguing people need to be convinced Nazis are bad... I'm arguing that if you want to suppress Nazis from demonstrating then you need the public behind you and that other wise you will fail. Am I wrong to think that constitutes a position? yes. your perception of this issue is flawed because you are not as well informed as you think, and this is apparent to everyone but you (because of the aforementioned lack of knowledge)
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Oct 24, 2017 23:32
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fallenturtle posted:That's a legitimize danger. It is. And I want to elaborate on that and my last post. Fascism is essentially a liberal auto-immune disorder. It takes all of liberalism's normal defense mechanisms and turns them against it. The "free speech rallies" are a blatant cover for them to commit hate crimes, but they drape one of the most cherished liberal ideals over it to make it difficult to attack. Of course we need to let them march, they have the right to express themselves. But they don't believe in free speech, they just use it as a shield while they commit violence. The liberal champions call on the marketplace of ideas to decide who is right, while the fascists smash up the market's stalls and assault its peddlers. So when liberal society sees the violence, and both the fascists and their opponents claim to be defending themselves, it falls back on its normal defense: the police, who are sent in to restore order. Not peace, mind you, but order. And when the police arrive, they have to determine which side started it. Is it the side that criticizes them for shooting deaths, that calls for civilian oversight and reducing their armaments? Or is it the side that says "it's okay, we know how dangerous it is out there for you. You should be more armed, you shouldn't have to answer to anyone on the calls you make when your life is on the line. Take down the thugs and criminals. Take down the people who enable them by questioning you." So who do you think the police will side with? Every defense mechanism liberalism has, fascism evolved to overcome and subvert. So liberal responses to fascism are bound to fail. Realizing this is what is driving me away from liberalism and toward leftism, because liberalism is forced to confront what it knows is the greatest evil of the last century, and is helpless to do anything to stop it.
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Oct 24, 2017 23:47
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Goon Danton posted:It is. And I want to elaborate on that and my last post. I find it real hard to view liberalism as anything other than the belief that if you do as little as possible the world will trend towards utopia. I dunno honestly what defence mechanisms it has other than it being propped up by people who already live in utopia because they're filthy rich.
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Oct 24, 2017 23:49
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I'm using it in the marxist sense of "the political system that co-evolved with capitalism." So constitutional indirect democracy, free speech protections, the modern police and prison system, etc.
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Oct 24, 2017 23:52
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Goon Danton posted:I'm using it in the marxist sense of "the political system that co-evolved with capitalism." So constitutional indirect democracy, free speech protections, the modern police and prison system, etc. Oh right I see yes that makes more sense.
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Oct 24, 2017 23:55
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OwlFancier posted:We don't need to legally stop them from assembling, we can do it illegally, or we can drown them out by constant engagement of opposition to them. Yes it is an endless task, that's how ideology works. You don't just pass a law and then it goes away, you need to constantly keep people active and engaged with opposing lovely ideas and promoting better ones. quote:That isn't repackaging, that's the same packaging it's always been in. Where do you think cultural bolshevism comes from? That (((the other))) is within our society, corrupting it from within and leading us to decadence is a founding principle of fascism. They believe it has to be rooted out by strength of superior culture and a superior race in order to secure prosperity. This is not even remotely new. quote:And why do you believe that they will object to it once they hear fascists telling them why their lives are poo poo? Did you not pay attention during last year's election? We tried "everything is fine let's have polite discourse and carry on" versus nationalism, racism, and the promise of radical change, turns out a massive number of Americans are super down with that, as is the case in every country in the world, because fascism appeals to people in poor conditions. And precious fewer every year are hanging onto the old lie that everything's fine. quote:Why on earth would they be? A fuckton of people die every year in shootings and it hasn't convinced quote:You believe that, and you're projecting that belief on everyone else. For some fascism offers a hope of change in their lives for the better, which maintaining the status quo does not. You don't answer that by letting fascists assemble and spread their beliefs because it isn't just hot air. It's a serious desire manifesting as a serious and dangerous ideology. It isn't immediately self defeating however much you think it is.
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Oct 25, 2017 00:30
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boner confessor posted:"look, just because my argument is incoherent and i refuse to listen to anyone or ever stop repeating myself endlessly... quote:...doesn't mean i don't have feelings, which is what matters most in an internet argument. anyway, sorry if i hurt your fee-fees" quote:yes. your perception of this issue is flawed because you are not as well informed as you think, and this is apparent to everyone but you (because of the aforementioned lack of knowledge)
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Oct 25, 2017 00:41
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fallenturtle posted:That seems inefficient. If you don't want people professing hate speech you have to pass a law. you're just all over the map with the dumb arguments here. punching works too, it's historically very effective and your refusal to engage with this argument indicates either profound ignorance or that you know it's correct and you have no counterargument fallenturtle posted:Yes, I do have feelings, how horrible of me. Look, I don't know if you got beat up in school a lot or if you parents didn't love you enough or what the gently caress is your issue, but unlike you, I actually try to be nice to people. I'm sorry if that's alien to you. lol you dont even understand when im making fun of you fallenturtle posted:Perhaps my perception is flawed... I don't refute that. I do think that some people here have a flawed and overly negative perception of Americans. Thank God for Internet Superheros like yourself that are here to flame the misguided and make sure that people can't have civil conversations. Thank you for making SA a better place for us all. you're welcome. i'm glad you admit that shaming and rhetorical violence are effective tools for shutting down bad arguments
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Oct 25, 2017 00:41
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fallenturtle posted:That seems inefficient. If you don't want people professing hate speech you have to pass a law. Fisticuffs isn't a good way to keep people active and engaged. It's certainly not what I want to teach my children. Are you deaf? What did I tell you earlier about alternative political organization? I'm sure you'd teach your children not to ever engage in violence with a nazi or have any strong opinion whatsoever but that's your dumbass problem, the rest of us promote ideologies which directly and unequivocally oppose fascism as an exercise in foolishness that will not solve your problems, and is absolutely unacceptably opposed to class cooperation. Willingness to beat the poo poo out of nazis to keep them down is a symptom of having a functioning brain not the sole goal of it. fallenturtle posted:There's certainly not a swastika on the outside of the box. Someone replaced it with a cartoon frog. Oh well the flag's different some of the time that's cracked it, definitely not the same thing being advertised as the last million loving times. fallenturtle posted:Trump barely won and did win not so much because of a turn out for him but because of a lack of turnout for Hillary and a big chunk of his votes I'm sure were not "yay white people, boo brown people" as much as "anyone but Hillary". You're making an assumption about a majority of Americans based on the behavior of a minority. loving lol if you think that what, 30% of the country voting for an openly racist nationalist to be president doesn't constitute a risk for fascism. Oh yeah it's "a minority" and 30% of the population is no threat at all. It's all fine. fallenturtle posted:Because one is a Nazi and the other is a gun. Also I fixed your sentence for you. And guns don't even have loving rights, they should be easier to take action against than nazis, but still you've failed to do anything about it, and still you persist in this insane fantasy that the noble loving spirit of America will triumph and its exceptionalism will make it magically nazi proof. fallenturtle posted:I believe that because that's what most of those accused of being centrists say. I've also heard conservatives say that. I think you misinterpret how much Americans love their freedom of speech. For the center and the left its pretty near the top... For the right, sadly, it falls below guns and patriotism. Anyone who values the rights of nazis to organize is not a loving leftist, they're an ideologically vacuous idiot.
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Oct 25, 2017 00:41
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fallenturtle posted:One group believes that whites are being treated unfairly and that their culture is under attack + yadda yadda SJWs feminist LMSM whine whine whine. In many ways they are shitlords just taking it up to the next level, but when poo poo hits the fan, like being punched or worse, they bow out because they are cowards and lack the conviction of their beliefs. The other group is more your classic neo-Nazi racist who gets tattoos of swastikas and what not, burn down churches, light crosses on fire... are hardcore about their beliefs. I think those folks will keep coming back after you punch them. In reality there are probably lots of folks who fall in between as well. 
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Oct 25, 2017 00:45
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boner confessor posted:You're just all over the map with the dumb arguments here. punching works too, it's historically very effective and your refusal to engage with this argument indicates either profound ignorance or that you know it's correct and you have no counterargument quote:lol you don't even understand when I'm making fun of you quote:you're welcome. I'm glad you admit that shaming and rhetorical violence are effective tools for shutting down bad arguments
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Oct 25, 2017 01:05
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fallenturtle posted:Punching works with the weak willed, but not the hard core believers. What evidence is there that punching is an effective solution to stopping fascism. I'm honestly asking because I don't think it is, but if you have evidence to the contrary I'll correct myself. How do you think you keep it at a population only of hardcore believers other than by opposing it with every tool at your disposal? You can't obliterate the idea entirely but you can keep it down with organization and action, the law won't defend you. "Hey now violence won't stop hardcore nazis from believing they're right but you know what we need? A law. That'll fix it"
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Oct 25, 2017 01:07
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fallenturtle posted:Punching works with the weak willed, but not the hard core believers. What evidence is there that punching is an effective solution to stopping fascism. I'm honestly asking because I don't think it is, but if you have evidence to the contrary I'll correct myself. i dont really have time to educate you on the history of 20th century protest movements and anti-fascism in america, if you're really interested and not a concern troll you can educate yourself. start by learning what antifa is an abbreviation for  fallenturtle posted:I never denied that. In fact I've advocated for it. oh cool, so at this point you've completely abandonded your original argument and you're only sticking around because someone is calling you wrong on the internet and this cannot stand. gently caress your ego you wishy washy softbrain 
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Oct 25, 2017 01:11
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I mean, Germany banned nazis and they definitely don't have any problems with far right nationalists any more. Nope.
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Oct 25, 2017 01:14
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OwlFancier posted:I mean, Germany banned nazis and they definitely don't have any problems with far right nationalists any more. Nope. *reaches into meme chest* Might as well not pass any law ever.
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Oct 25, 2017 06:38
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