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wooger posted:No, it appears formulaic and flawed at first, but gets better over the season, and ends with a much more promising premise for the future plot. I'll check out The OA too, sounds cool. Edit: oh poo poo page first post, um Disco is a great show and also nips and stuff!
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Oct 25, 2017 04:19
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The OA is nonsense.
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Oct 25, 2017 04:20
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Marx Headroom posted:"Lethe" effortpost: I feel like you might have deliberately read everything wrong.
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Oct 25, 2017 05:16
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4000 Dollar Suit posted:I'll check out The OA too, sounds cool.
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Oct 25, 2017 05:58
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The OA is awful, and teases you from the beginning that its going to be more interesting than it ever comes close to being.
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Oct 25, 2017 06:40
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4000 Dollar Suit posted:I'll check out The OA too, sounds cool. The OA is a really polarising show. People tend to either love it or hate it. But give it a chance.
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Oct 25, 2017 07:01
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xerxus posted:I feel like you might have deliberately read everything wrong. What's up with their reading? It seems pretty on the nose to me. I think when people are saying it's Grimdark they're saying that normally star trek is much jollier than this. I'm not saying the show has to be the Orville but DS9 managed to do a serial show and not have everything be opressive and unpleasant. I like the characters and don't understand people saying Tilly or Burnham are horrible, but the atmosphere of the show feels like the Enterprise on "Yesterday's Enterprise".
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Oct 25, 2017 07:16
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So what if, instead of being destroyed in the war, Lorca blew up the Buran and escaped because the crew tried to mutiny? I mean, it is highly unusual that our overly-militaristic and unhinged captain was somehow the only survivor.
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Oct 25, 2017 07:38
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Drone posted:So what if, instead of being destroyed in the war, Lorca blew up the Buran and escaped because the crew tried to mutiny? I mean, it is highly unusual that our overly-militaristic and unhinged captain was somehow the only survivor. It bothers me that Tyler didn't at least ask about that. The situation where only the captain escapes and blows up the ship as well seems so insane that you'd HAVE to ask something.
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Oct 25, 2017 07:50
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Jean-Lorca, blow up the drat ship!
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Oct 25, 2017 07:55
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Grand Fromage posted:Jean-Lorca, blow up the drat ship!
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Oct 25, 2017 08:11
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Marx Headroom posted:"Lethe" effortpost: I honestly dont understand how people cant see the overall ‘federation is in a dark place and finds its way’ story developing. I mean, theres a clue in the name of the show and everything.
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Oct 25, 2017 08:39
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spidjod posted:I honestly dont understand how people cant see the overall ‘federation is in a dark place and finds its way’ story developing. The show isn't giving us that idea though because all we ever see is the Discovery. There are no fleet engagements, there are no other ships. There's JUST discovery. Maybe if we saw more. DS9 makes the war feel "real" but Discovery so far really hasn't.
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Oct 25, 2017 08:45
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Grand Fromage posted:Jean-Lorca, blow up the drat ship!
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Oct 25, 2017 08:52
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Taear posted:The show isn't giving us that idea though because all we ever see is the Discovery. There are no fleet engagements, there are no other ships. There's JUST discovery. We have seen a fleet engagement and pretty sure we have seen other ships and were on board of other ships.
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Oct 25, 2017 09:18
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Decius posted:We have seen a fleet engagement and pretty sure we have seen other ships and were on board of other ships. Only in the first two episodes. When the war started. We've not had anything since then - unless you count the totally deserted Glen.
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Oct 25, 2017 09:32
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Taear posted:The show isn't giving us that idea though because all we ever see is the Discovery. There are no fleet engagements, there are no other ships. There's JUST discovery. Five episodes ago there was a big space battle with a ton of different ship configurations. Like three-four episodes ago we saw the Glenn, and this week's episode has the Admiral show up in her cruiser (that we never see but I'm just gonna headcanon that it's a Constitution-class). It's a really dumb metric to judge a show by that is literally only 6 episodes in.
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Oct 25, 2017 11:03
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Hey! I've got something important to ask! Has anyone called this show Space Orc: Discovery yet? Very important.
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Oct 25, 2017 11:28
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It is kind of weird how it's been basically a bottle series so far. There are no strange new worlds or new life and new civilizations. No one has boldly gone anywhere.
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Oct 25, 2017 11:29
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Grand Fromage posted:No one has boldly gone anywhere. I think the experimental instantaneous jumping with a brand new drive is the definition of that.
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Oct 25, 2017 11:33
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Josh Lyman posted:Don't watch The OA. It might be the worst show ever put out by Netflix. I watched the first episode but when when the OA tells the teacher who is saying the bully student should be kicked out of school for destroying another kids throat that isn't it her job to teach all students, and the Teacher turns around and goes "oh yes it is, this incredibly violent criminal shouldn't be punished" I was like "gently caress you show", and realized the show was basically condoning bullying
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Oct 25, 2017 11:35
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Binary Badger posted:
Space psilocybin will do that.
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Oct 25, 2017 11:39
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Drone posted:Five episodes ago there was a big space battle with a ton of different ship configurations. Like three-four episodes ago we saw the Glenn, and this week's episode has the Admiral show up in her cruiser (that we never see but I'm just gonna headcanon that it's a Constitution-class). Five episodes ago the war started and that's at LEAST six months ago. If people are saying this show is representing the Federation's ideals falling apart because the war is cutting so deeply then at least show it. Because they definitely haven't done that so far. It's six episodes in yes but it's six episodes of showing the effects of something we haven't actually seen at all. If you're going to make the captain evil but give him tons of leeway to be evil then show us why he's allowed to do this. The federation is on the verge of defeat in DS9 but they still wouldn't have let Sisko get away with what he does in "In The Pale Moonlight" if they had found out.
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Oct 25, 2017 11:44
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Taear posted:What's up with their reading? It seems pretty on the nose to me. Well, for starters, it is necessarily assuming that we're supposed to be looking at Lorca's decisions on the Discovery as good things. Even though the show cannot scream aloud enough on it's own that Lorca is super hosed up and is not doing good things. It may seem obvious, but this is kinda the rub for a lot of people when it comes to Star Trek I guess. The other series's usually started out in a hopeful tone (or closer to it than Discovery has), and while Discovery is sending clear messages that some things are wrong, it isn't giving us a clear message about what direction it'll go. And that's, apparently, problematic when it's the plot for an ongoing season. If you were to take a plot about infiltrating the ship of a corrupt federation captain into TNG, it would be at most a 2-parter; with DIS it is the first season in which we are getting acquainted with the characters. This is why I think DIS is going to be difficult to judge until we get closer and closer to the ending of the arc to know where it really stands. It really really is making it super obvious Lorca is evil, but it doesn't feel like it's in any rush to get to that resolution to let us know. You have to argue on either side about how clear the writers are making it out to be, which is a bad argument because it's clear the writing doesn't care much about what Star Trek expectations we have. Grand Fromage posted:It is kind of weird how it's been basically a bottle series so far. There are no strange new worlds or new life and new civilizations. No one has boldly gone anywhere. Well, they did have the plot about the Tardigrade. It wasn't exactly new life, but it was a plotline about trying to understand the organisms new powers and behaviors and turn that into a lesson about setting it free. It's not strictly a new life plot, but it pretty much was set up like one. That said, yes of course I'd agree that it's more focused on the serialized plot than normal exploratory plots that we want to see. And it'd be nice to have more of those elements sprinkled in.
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Oct 25, 2017 11:51
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Ventana posted:Well, for starters, it is necessarily assuming that we're supposed to be looking at Lorca's decisions on the Discovery as good things. Even though the show cannot scream aloud enough on it's own that Lorca is super hosed up and is not doing good things. I don't agree that the reading is saying what Lorca/Burnham/etc do is good. I'm reading it through the lense that I'm viewing the show. That is we're seeing all these people do bad stuff because they "have to" but the show isn't showing us why they have to. We've seen serialised Trek in much of what happens in DS9 and I guess what I was expecting was stuff like that. If someone goes against Federation morality give us a proper idea why. And "Well actually he's from the mirror universe" is a boring poo poo reason. Maybe if he was from the post TOS mirror universe where Klingons opress their people, but just "He's an evil guy because he's from the evil world"? Meh.
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Oct 25, 2017 11:58
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:I think the experimental instantaneous jumping with a brand new drive is the definition of that. Except its like using a warp drive to go to the 7-11 down the block. The spore drive really barely exists as far as what its enabled the show to do, they're just jumping around to battles and existing colonies to save. They have this fancy stuff but they're just using it to run errands. Now, I don't think the show needs to do this, and if they're giving us a straight star trek war show (they should have done the romulan war), it wouldn't make a lot of sense. I just don't don't think the drive itself is an argument against someones view that they don't feel theres any exploration/adventure to it.
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Oct 25, 2017 12:18
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Tom Guycot posted:Except its like using a warp drive to go to the 7-11 down the block. The spore drive really barely exists as far as what its enabled the show to do, they're just jumping around to battles and existing colonies to save. They have this fancy stuff but they're just using it to run errands. That part is really confusing. If I was Lorca, I'd load up on bombs, and just jump between Klingon outposts, blowing them to smithereens before they knew what hit them. You'd think a teleporting space ship could basically instantly win the war. Also, I think it's ultimately uninteresting whether the show considers Lorca evil because he clearly is. I want to know how he got this far. What went wrong with the federation?
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Oct 25, 2017 12:25
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And More posted:That part is really confusing. If I was Lorca, I'd load up on bombs, and just jump between Klingon outposts, blowing them to smithereens before they knew what hit them. You'd think a teleporting space ship could basically instantly win the war. Yeah this is whats disappointed me about the spore drive. I don't give a poo poo how it works its no sillier than a million trek things, but they wrote themselves into a corner. They have this almost magical tech, yet every single instance of its use could have been done with a regular warp drive as far as the plot is concerned. Instant travel wasn't necessary to do any of their plots. Use the dang drive. Show us it doing impossible things like you just said, show them leaping to a dozen klingon worlds across the quadrant and bombing them all within minutes. Have them setup a shipyard making more spore drives on the far end of the delta quadrant where they know klingons can never reach (maybe at some point the complex just goes dark without explanation, the implication being the borg absorbed it and maybe thats where they got their faster than warp stuff?). Heck in season 2 have them go to the Andromeda galaxy and see some truly new things. Have them do amazing things no other ship we've seen in 60 years of star trek can do.
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Oct 25, 2017 12:35
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Tom Guycot posted:Yeah this is whats disappointed me about the spore drive. I don't give a poo poo how it works its no sillier than a million trek things, but they wrote themselves into a corner. They have this almost magical tech, yet every single instance of its use could have been done with a regular warp drive as far as the plot is concerned. Instant travel wasn't necessary to do any of their plots. Use the dang drive. I thought that everyone was too far away from the dilithium mines at warp, despite that being dumb, so they spored on over.
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Oct 25, 2017 12:52
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Here's a question, what does anyone else on the ship think about the fact that Burnham and Tilly set the tardigrade free completely on their own initiative? Who even knows that they did this?
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Oct 25, 2017 12:56
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Tom Guycot posted:Yeah this is whats disappointed me about the spore drive. I don't give a poo poo how it works its no sillier than a million trek things, but they wrote themselves into a corner. They have this almost magical tech, yet every single instance of its use could have been done with a regular warp drive as far as the plot is concerned. Instant travel wasn't necessary to do any of their plots. This is part of what I'm getting at. There's a big war and we have a ship that can teleport whenever wherever and yet we've not really seen poo poo.
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Oct 25, 2017 12:56
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Wee Bairns posted:
Apologies if this has joke has been made many times in the 5 pages ahead of this post but... ...So was 
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Oct 25, 2017 12:57
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Georgia Peach posted:I thought that everyone was too far away from the dilithium mines at warp, despite that being dumb, so they spored on over. Right, I mean they've used it, but that same storyline of racing to save a dilithium mine could have been done in TNG without any changes but a couple lines of technobabble. The warp core isn't working, geordie needs to get it fixed because they're running out of time, etc etc.
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Oct 25, 2017 13:10
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skasion posted:Here's a question, what does anyone else on the ship think about the fact that Burnham and Tilly set the tardigrade free completely on their own initiative? Who even knows that they did this?  Maybe that's an alternate timeline where the Mirror guy lives. It makes as much sense.
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Oct 25, 2017 13:12
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Chop Sunni posted:Apologies if this has joke has been made many times in the 5 pages ahead of this post but... It's a fictional brand that was Miles O'Brien's fave.
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Oct 25, 2017 13:15
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I guess it’s not impossible that this Lorca is actually from the Mirror Universe and the real one died on the Buran. That weird brand could be from the various awful punishments that Terran Empire crewmen deal with frequently.
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Oct 25, 2017 14:10
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And More posted:Also, I think it's ultimately uninteresting whether the show considers Lorca evil because he clearly is. I want to know how he got this far. What went wrong with the federation? I'm starting to think that instead of wasting two episodes on Burnham on the Shenzhou, we should have gotten an episode or two of Lorca on the Buran. Seeing him as a functional officer with a crew he cares about would have made the change in him mean something, rather than just being told he's different.
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Oct 25, 2017 15:02
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Angry Salami posted:I'm starting to think that instead of wasting two episodes on Burnham on the Shenzhou, we should have gotten an episode or two of Lorca on the Buran. Seeing him as a functional officer with a crew he cares about would have made the change in him mean something, rather than just being told he's different. He would be the main character then, though.
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Oct 25, 2017 15:05
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Taear posted:I don't agree that the reading is saying what Lorca/Burnham/etc do is good. I don't know what to say other than breaking down that last paragraph of his post for you. His objections at the end were not really statements about inability to decipher what the characters were thinking. They were about characters eschewing morals and ethics (and getting rewarded for that) when those are presented and is (supposedly) the end goal for this series. Your objections seem to be about not being satisfied with the presentation of the context of the show; wanting more detail in the scenarios, more nuance in the decisions, maybe more technobabble to explain away why the plot has to be precisely this arbitrary scenario as other Star Treks did all the time. This all fits in with his complaints about Logic Extremists, but the rest of his post is about what I wrote above. Taear posted:We've seen serialised Trek in much of what happens in DS9 and I guess what I was expecting was stuff like that. If someone goes against Federation morality give us a proper idea why. Eh, again I have to repeat that this is part of the difficulty with serialization. Characters will sometimes have, either partly or entirely, motivations and backstory drawn out over the course of the series, something true in DS9 as well (as well as other Trek shows). Discovery is doing it in a less interesting way that is certainly more frustrating, but we can't say for sure that the series is not going to address stuff like in the future. While I have my own issues with the show, I don't particularly feel any problem with the War context or Lorca's decisions in it so far. I do feel like the angle is being squandered with the little we've seen so far, but again that's not entirely fair when we are still very early on.
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Oct 25, 2017 15:05
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It has been mentioned that the Discovery was doing all these attacks / defending outposts because of the spore drive. They even used the drive to defend the mining outpost on time because no other ship could have made it. So yea the instant travel was necessary.
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Oct 25, 2017 15:33
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