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GlyphGryph posted:Can you point it out? I've been trying my best to follow things, and I haven't seen it. Maybe it just got drowned out. Launched task force to, uh, come up with proposals: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/29/democrats-election-security-task-force-russian-hackers-240113 Social media ad rules, to counteract the major meddling enterprise (other than the DNC hack, probably) the public knows about : https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-19/russia-probes-spur-lawmakers-on-election-security-social-media Bill to automagically impose sanctions on foreign entities that try to fool around in US elections beyond acceptably deniable parameters: http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/311400-dems-propose-sanctions-for-foreign-election-meddling I thought there was also something about voting machine security but I guess it disappeared into the netherworld. Might still count as Democrats proposing a thing though, even if it never made it into bill form.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:38
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Talmonis posted:Are they creating ransomware and using it on civilians and companies based in the U.S, or "just" spying on our government? I believe it is mostly the latter.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:46
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The Russians rigged* our election because they're mad that we... collapsed their government then rigged their elections. *made some facebook posts about
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Oct 25, 2017 16:48
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Nanomashoes posted:The Russians rigged* our election because they're mad that we... collapsed their government then rigged their elections. The US did not have the ability to collapse the Soviet Union. Russia's only power in the US comes from having willing patsies to amplify and legitimize their efforts. These narratives are both bad in that they take agency away from native actors.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:58
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I'm not concerned about Russians specifically so much as our apparent desire to not secure our elections against internet based tampering in general.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:02
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https://twitter.com/aedwardslevy/status/923214548886282240 Voters are dumb and have the memory of humming birds. Another reason we get the government we deserve.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:11
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Shbobdb posted:I believe it is mostly the latter. TBH, I don't really care as much about espionage between governments. Every country with the capacity does it, and always has. It's a standard factor in geopolitics. But it's the screwing with civilian populations that I get angry about, regardless of who is doing it. I know the U.S. is responsible for most of the poor state of South American countries due to their actions during the cold war, and don't want a repeat or continuation of that kind of thing from anyone. mcmagic posted:https://twitter.com/aedwardslevy/status/923214548886282240 I mean, in comparison it's difficult not to see Bush in a rose tinted light. Right now, if you could tell me that we could replace Trump and Co. with Bush and his crew, I'd fall over myself scrambling to do it. And that's considering all the awful poo poo he got up to. Talmonis fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 17:13
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RuanGacho posted:I'm not concerned about Russians specifically so much as our apparent desire to not secure our elections against internet based tampering in general. Or modernize our online infrastructure, or uphold effective cybersecurity measures, or etc. mcmagic posted:Voters are dumb and have the memory of humming birds. Another reason we get the government we deserve. The normalization of Bush versus Trump has not helped matters and in general has been Very Bad. There wasn't nearly as much reason to give Bush credit for the minor opposition he gave to Trump because he's not actually holding office, and yet people tripped over themselves to talk about how great he is. Ditto Mitt Romney.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:14
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Nanomashoes posted:The Russians rigged* our election because they're mad that we... collapsed their government then rigged their elections. I'm sure the charter schools both parties are pushing for will teach students the critical thinking skills needed to discern what's real and fake on social media.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:16
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The Iraq war was bad, but at least it wasn't murder.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:16
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Lightning Knight posted:Ditto Mitt Romney. It's as if Bain Capital only worked because it sounded scary and no one actually understood the fundamental problem with his involvement.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:17
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Office Pig posted:It's as if Bain Capital only worked because it sounded scary and no one actually understood the fundamental problem with his involvement. Also Democrats had hollywood release The Dark Knight Rises to drive the point home.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:19
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steinrokkan posted:The Iraq war was bad, but at least it wasn't murder.  I daresay the Iraqis would beg to differ.(I suspect I've just missed the joke here). Office Pig posted:It's as if Bain Capital only worked because it sounded scary and no one actually understood the fundamental problem with his involvement. I mean the Bain Capital attacks at the time all fundamentally bought into the Job Creator myth, asserting that Romney was unfit for office because he decided to get into the business of layoffs instead of Job Creation. They never crossed the fundamental line into an actual critique of capital or shareholder dilemmas or what have you.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:21
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steinrokkan posted:The Iraq war was bad, but at least it wasn't murder. ???
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Oct 25, 2017 17:25
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steinrokkan posted:The Iraq war was bad, but at least it wasn't murder. I saw that tweet
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Oct 25, 2017 17:31
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Talmonis posted:TBH, I don't really care as much about espionage between governments. Every country with the capacity does it, and always has. It's a standard factor in geopolitics. But it's the screwing with civilian populations that I get angry about, regardless of who is doing it. I know the U.S. is responsible for most of the poor state of South American countries due to their actions during the cold war, and don't want a repeat or continuation of that kind of thing from anyone. We didn't stop loving with Latin America after the Cold War  Also, bush loving sucks and no amount of trumps make him look good
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Oct 25, 2017 17:48
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Condiv posted:
Like for real I think the only time I can think of that we were vaguely nice to our neighbors was during the Good Neighbor policy at best.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:50
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Lightning Knight posted:Like for real I think the only time I can think of that we were vaguely nice to our neighbors was during the Good Neighbor policy at best. You forgot about Poland!
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Oct 25, 2017 17:51
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Lightning Knight posted:
Chris Hayes said nothing Trump has done so far is as bad as Iraq then got a bunch of replies in that vein.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:55
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Shbobdb posted:You forgot about Poland! I don’t follow. I specifically meant our Latin American neighbors, sorry if I caused confusion. Motto posted:Chris Hayes said nothing Trump has done so far is as bad as Iraq then got a bunch of replies in that vein. Ah ok. Lmao.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:02
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Oct 25, 2017 18:04
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Talmonis posted:TBH, I don't really care as much about espionage between governments. Every country with the capacity does it, and always has. It's a standard factor in geopolitics. But it's the screwing with civilian populations that I get angry about, regardless of who is doing it. I know the U.S. is responsible for most of the poor state of South American countries due to their actions during the cold war, and don't want a repeat or continuation of that kind of thing from anyone. This is terrifically ahistorical and bad opinion.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:05
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Talmonis posted:
Nothing that Trump has done has been as harmful as the Iraq war, No Child Left Behind, the prohibition on medicare negotiating drug prices, the withdrawal from the Kyoto protocol (which was far more significant than the Paris climate accords), or the requirements that all anti-AIDS funding involve abstinence only education and anti-prostitution efforts.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:05
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mcmagic posted:This is terrifically ahistorical and bad opinion. Yeah keep in mind even if you replaced Trump with Generic R at this point that means A) more inequality and environmental damage across the board and B) more Rs appointed to departments to accomplish A. Many D politicians are bad, but all R politicians are bad.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:06
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farraday posted:You know, dems focused on Russia has a mythical op ed wisdom quality about it I’m not sure is actually reflected by reality. Examples? I think it's mostly the media/pundit class of Dems rather than rank and file Democratic politicians. Thanks for this, looking them over now... this is much better to talk about than the stupider half of the anti-Russia conversation imo. GreyjoyBastard posted:The task force will hold hearings, collect data on state-level election hacks, and interview election officials and cybersecurity experts. Ultimately, the group aims to turn its findings into legislation. Wait, I thought there was no evidence of actual state level election hacking? I know the party's info and e-mails got hacked, but that doesn't really seem legislation related... are they creating a committee to study the one bit of this problem that didn't actually happen, or am I misunderstanding this? Or did it turn out the actual votes and stuff were hacked at all? quote:Social media ad rules, to counteract the major meddling enterprise (other than the DNC hack, probably) the public knows about : This seems good, but also... weird? It says the ads being run as they were are already illegal under current law, now they just need to... disclose the illegality? No, wait, it looks like it only targets ads funded by domestic sources... Seems good, but not sure how it relates to the problem at hand. Does it actually result in any consequences, or is this just making things easier to complain about? quote:Bill to automagically impose sanctions on foreign entities that try to fool around in US elections beyond acceptably deniable parameters: Ugh, I actively dislike this one. This was a lot more disappointing than I had hoped, drat. Seems weak as gently caress. Surely someone must be pushing for more criminal consequences for domestic collaborators with increased and improved enforcement of election laws and poo poo, right? Stuff that might actually have uncovered stuff early enough and acted quick enough to nip all this in the bud?
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Oct 25, 2017 18:09
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joepinetree posted:Nothing that Trump has done has been as harmful as the Iraq war, No Child Left Behind, the prohibition on medicare negotiating drug prices, the withdrawal from the Kyoto protocol (which was far more significant than the Paris climate accords), or the requirements that all anti-AIDS funding involve abstinence only education and anti-prostitution efforts. Torture and shredding the Geneva Convention should be mentioned here too.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:10
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joepinetree posted:Nothing that Trump has done has been as harmful as the Iraq war, No Child Left Behind, the prohibition on medicare negotiating drug prices, the withdrawal from the Kyoto protocol (which was far more significant than the Paris climate accords), or the requirements that all anti-AIDS funding involve abstinence only education and anti-prostitution efforts. That was over eight years. This poo poo boulder is just starting to roll downhill, and it's only been nine months. mcmagic posted:This is terrifically ahistorical and bad opinion. I guess this depends on just how afraid you are of the white supremacist movement getting the candidate of their dreams elected, and having him run intereference for them. Or getting into a pissing match with North Korea and threatening nuclear war.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:13
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Pre-9/11 Bush was saber rattling against loving CHINA.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:14
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Shbobdb posted:Pre-9/11 Bush was saber rattling against loving CHINA. He also was just a greedy prick, and not an unstable manchild with a raging inferiority complex.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:15
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Shbobdb posted:Torture and shredding the Geneva Convention should be mentioned here too. All the terrible stuff that Bush did can fill multiple encyclopedias. I was working for a public policy evaluation firm at the time. Bush appointees were just as ideological, incompetent and unrelated to the subject matters that they controlled as Trump appointees. Hell, even in terms of just optics, this whole rehabilitation of Bush is ridiculous. Even in campaign terms nothing that Trump has done is quite as dishonest as swift boat veterans, the things that they did to Max Cleland in Georgia, or cynically pushing ballot measures on same sex marriage in several states to drive up evangelical voting. Edit: Talmonis posted:That was over eight years. This poo poo boulder is just starting to roll downhill, and it's only been nine months. By this time in Bush's first term he had already withdrawn from the Kyoto protocol (much more significant than the mostly symbolic Paris accords), had already decided internally to invade Iraq, was already drafting the abstinence only and anti-prostitution requirements for AIDS funding, had already passed no child left behind, had already passed massive tax cuts to the rich, had already created the office of faith based initiatives, had appointed John Negroponte as UN ambassador, and was about to sign the patriot act. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 18:16
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Seriously, gently caress anyone trying to rehabilitate W's image. He and his entire circle were monsters. Also, I just today found out exactly how Gaddafi died and it puts Hillary's gloating into a whole new light. 
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Oct 25, 2017 18:18
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Talmonis posted:He also was just a greedy prick, and not an unstable manchild with a raging inferiority complex. Ummm. Are you sure about that? Because the Casus Belli for Iraq was basically "crippling daddy issues".
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Oct 25, 2017 18:20
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steinrokkan posted:The Iraq war was bad, but at least it wasn't murder. crimes against humanity are a step above murder, a good post
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Oct 25, 2017 18:25
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Shbobdb posted:Pre-9/11 Bush was saber rattling against loving CHINA. well, if you recall, the first sort of major diplomatic kerfuffle of the bush administration was the midair collision of a navy ep-3e aries ii intel plane with a plan fighter jet over hainan so it wasn’t completely contextless it was still stupid as hell tho
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Oct 25, 2017 18:29
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Falstaff posted:Seriously, gently caress anyone trying to rehabilitate W's image. He and his entire circle were monsters. Nah, dude, the overarching goal of a Liberal is to find a "good" Republican and then have that Republican embrace them.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:29
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Falstaff posted:Seriously, gently caress anyone trying to rehabilitate W's image. He and his entire circle were monsters. For those unaware, Gaddafi was literally sodomized with a bayonet and Hillary's response was to gloat triumphantly about how "we came, we saw, he died!" Seriously, gently caress Hillary Clinton and all her supporters
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Oct 25, 2017 18:31
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Huzanko posted:Nah, dude, the overarching goal of a Liberal is to find a good Republican. I think that the Flake situation encapsulates this perfectly. Flake voted with Trump 92% of the time. That 8% disagreement was enough to get Flake primaried and unpopular among Republicans. Meanwhile, a huge number of democrats are willing to completely overlook that 92% score as long as he makes a strongly worded speech and changes nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if Flake continues to be just as lovely but at some point runs as a democrat (like Crist, Specter, etc).
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Oct 25, 2017 18:32
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Shbobdb posted:Ummm. The Casus Belli for Iraq was a handout to Halliburton for services rendered. joepinetree posted:All the terrible stuff that Bush did can fill multiple encyclopedias. Jesus, you people don't have nearly the level of horror you should at the current situation. We have a guy who is encouraging his cult-like followers to attack protesters, openly enabling and running interference for white supremacists, using hate crime laws and the justice department to persecute BLM, dismantling the EPA from within via a hostile director, threatening the media with revoking their license and general intimidation and once again, threatening nuclear war. This is only after 10 months. Bush was terrible and a monster. That's what makes it so stark, just how horrifying this man is.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:33
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One of the times Flake broke with Trump is voting against disaster relief for Puerto Rico, I believe. So even when he’s against Trump, he’s still bad
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Oct 25, 2017 18:34
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Democrazy posted:The US did not have the ability to collapse the Soviet Union. Russia's only power in the US comes from having willing patsies to amplify and legitimize their efforts. you realize hollywood literally made a movie about how you rigged the russian elections, right
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Oct 25, 2017 18:35
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