Military History Mk. III: One that I know of is an archaic word for dick, another is

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > Military History Mk. III: One that I know of is an archaic word for dick, another is

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Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Jobbo_Fett posted:

"US Carrier Admiral William 'Bull' Halsey was so appalled to be put in charge of Task Force 13 and an operation due to commence on February 13, 1942, that he managed to get Pacific Fleet HQ to change both the number and the date."

I believe this TF became TF 16.

One of the reasons why I'm not an admiral is if that had happened to me, I'd have broken 13 mirrors and made sure to have black cats running around everywhere on my carrier, just as a great, big gently caress you to fate

# ? Oct 25, 2017 19:40

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 15:42

Comrade Gorbash: Jul 12, 2011; My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

zoux posted:

Wasn't there a Civil War widow getting survivors benefits until like, five years ago?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/08/24/oldest-civil-war-pensioner/599159001/

# ? Oct 25, 2017 19:50

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Libluini posted:

One of the reasons why I'm not an admiral is if that had happened to me, I'd have broken 13 mirrors and made sure to have black cats running around everywhere on my carrier, just as a great, big gently caress you to fate

The superstition book actually covers this too! There were plenty of men who didn't believe in any charm, totem, or luck. That's why you have bombers with crews like this one

"Smith even painted an open ladder above the crew hatch so they would have to walk under it as they climbed on board, and painted over the parachute escape hatch on the belly of the plane, but these details were later removed."

Or an example in the book where someone chose to wear a dead man's clothes because, gently caress it, they were good clothes!

The book surmises that bomber crews were more susceptible to wishful thinking because they, in general, had less agency than, say, fighter pilots. Also, that such doom and gloom of deadly premonitions sometimes was more due to a sudden change in crews or aircraft, or mounting stress and fatigue, rather than some divine message. Commanding officers were no different, but in general the various armed forces refrained from putting an end to the various practices because it was seen as a morale booster.

Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Oct 25, 2017

# ? Oct 25, 2017 19:50

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Libluini posted:

One of the reasons why I'm not an admiral is if that had happened to me, I'd have broken 13 mirrors and made sure to have black cats running around everywhere on my carrier, just as a great, big gently caress you to fate

Kitties.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 20:13

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Kitties.

i think a carrier full of cats would own, actually. you should do this, libliuni

# ? Oct 25, 2017 20:14

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

One of the stories in the book talks about a wing commander that kept two kittens with him at all times because it "made him better at poker"

E: a letter

# ? Oct 25, 2017 20:17

Ainsley McTree: Feb 19, 2004

I�ve heard of a cat carrier but this is ridiculous!!

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Oct 25, 2017 20:18

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

The ship's cat is an old and time-honored naval tradition.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 20:42

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Not exactly military, but there's always Apollo 13, launched at 13:13, and which suffered it's debilitating explosion on April 13.

When it came time to start picking missions for what would be the 13th Shuttle mission, NASA Administrator and triskaidekaphobe James M. Beggs (a former Navy guy) insisted they change the Shuttle flight numbering system so that there would never been an STS-13. They later reverted to sequential numbering for STS-26.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 20:51

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Jobbo_Fett posted:

The book surmises that bomber crews were more susceptible to wishful thinking because they, in general, had less agency than, say, fighter pilots.

Now here's a nit-picky question:

do you suppose this was because A) this was actually true of bomber crews, or B) the bomber crews just felt this way?

# ? Oct 25, 2017 20:58

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

I'd argue that only one guy on a bomber has any agency, the rest of them are just along for the ride. And in massive daylight bombing formations, the pilot doesn't have that much agency anyway. I'd be interested to see if there was a difference between superstitiousness for RAF bomber crews and USAAF crews, given the difference in doctrines.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 21:07

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Nebakenezzer posted:

Now here's a nit-picky question:

do you suppose this was because A) this was actually true of bomber crews, or B) the bomber crews just felt this way?

i do know that pikemen hated getting attacked from a distance because they didn't like the feeling of not being able to fire back

# ? Oct 25, 2017 21:13

VanSandman: Feb 16, 2011; SWAP.AVI EXCHANGER

Ainsley McTree posted:

I�ve heard of a cat carrier but this is ridiculous!!

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

You can�t just fake a punprobe, it has to be earned!

# ? Oct 25, 2017 21:14

Comrade Gorbash: Jul 12, 2011; My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

zoux posted:

I'd argue that only one guy on a bomber has any agency, the rest of them are just along for the ride. And in massive daylight bombing formations, the pilot doesn't have that much agency anyway. I'd be interested to see if there was a difference between superstitiousness for RAF bomber crews and USAAF crews, given the difference in doctrines.

Especially since the trade off for the RAF's greater autonomy was that they had to operate in darkness. I honestly can't guess if they would make them take to superstitions more, less, or about the same as compared to USAAF crews.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 21:15

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Comrade Gorbash posted:

Especially since the trade off for the RAF's greater autonomy was that they had to operate in darkness. I honestly can't guess if they would make them take to superstitions more, less, or about the same as compared to USAAF crews.

and by then you should be taking into account the preexisting differences between American and UK society as well. What superstitions existed in each country before the war?

# ? Oct 25, 2017 21:20

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Nebakenezzer posted:

Now here's a nit-picky question:

do you suppose this was because A) this was actually true of bomber crews, or B) the bomber crews just felt this way?

zoux posted:

I'd argue that only one guy on a bomber has any agency, the rest of them are just along for the ride. And in massive daylight bombing formations, the pilot doesn't have that much agency anyway. I'd be interested to see if there was a difference between superstitiousness for RAF bomber crews and USAAF crews, given the difference in doctrines.

This was basically how the book puts it.

Also the main difference that the book brings up was that more people in the USA were religious than in the UK, and that ratio was also found in the armed forces.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 21:20

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Also the main difference that the book brings up was that more people in the USA were religious than in the UK, and that ratio was also found in the armed forces.

Hmm that was a lot less true of 40s UK compared to modern day UK I would have thought.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 21:29

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Nebakenezzer posted:

Now here's a nit-picky question:

do you suppose this was because A) this was actually true of bomber crews, or B) the bomber crews just felt this way?

I mean there is a huge difference between 'I'm flying this plane and can fly back home RIGHT NOW if I feel like it and noone can tell me no' and...not.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 21:31

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

feedmegin posted:

Hmm that was a lot less true of 40s UK compared to modern day UK I would have thought.

If i can find the passage again ill quote the source used in the book. (Half the book is sources)

# ? Oct 25, 2017 21:43

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

HEY GAIL posted:

Lord no.

It was the Ottomans the Elector of Saxony was a weeb over. He claimed to be a Sultan, you see, and his army were like the Janissaries, etc. It's why Dresden has the most Ottoman tents and weapons outside of Turkey. I keep trying to get JaucheCharley to come visit me up here. Because Augustus the Strong was a massive, massive loving weeb.

Dresden is on the list, but I have to hit a few other things, like the Manchester Museum or Skokloster first. I mean getting into the depots and measuring stuff. It's a team effort that might once more lead to a journal article. Point being, which journal beside this tiny archery thing? It would fit into one of the conservator publications I guess? I want to rack up some publications, so that I get access to the shiny stuff here.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 21:45

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

feedmegin posted:

Hmm that was a lot less true of 40s UK compared to modern day UK I would have thought.

based on this, and comparing to similar long-term data for the us, it seems like, at least as measured by "do you believe in god yes/no/maybe", 40s UK was arguably* less religious than the modern US (but still substantially more religious than the modern UK)

there's also some stuff in there on belief in superstitions that aren't directly connected to orthodox religious beliefs, which might be the more important comparison

*I don't think this is a great measure of how religious a society is, but it does I think support the idea that there was a substantial gap in religious views between the UK and the US at the time

# ? Oct 25, 2017 21:46

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

America is far more religious than all the other first world countries and has been for a long time

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:00

pthighs: Jun 21, 2013; Pillbug

Cyrano4747 posted:

I kind of feel that, if after reading an author's book I know for certain what one of his PornTube search terms is, somewhere there is an editor who didn't do his job.

Way late on this but I just read my first Phillip K. Dick book and he is definitely a breast man.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:02

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

HEY GAIL posted:

America is far more religious than all the other first world countries and has been for a long time

Yeah but way more English believe in ghosts than Americans.

I'd want to see some kind of evidence that superstition correlates with religious belief. It seems obvious that it would, after all they are admitting to the influence of unseen supernatural forces. At the same time however, if you believe that there's a God and he's watching out for you or has a plan for you or whatever, then why would you worry about luck? I'd say a person with strong faith would be less likely to be superstitious, but maybe someone who grew up in a religious environment but doesn't have a particularly strong faith in God would be more likely to be be superstitious. I dunno how you test for that though.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:05

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

zoux posted:

At the same time however, if you believe that there's a God and he's watching out for you or has a plan for you or whatever, then why would you worry about luck? I'd say a person with strong faith would be less likely to be superstitious...

almost the entire 17th century says that's wrong.

the answer is "both god AND astrology/witches/demons/ghosts (maybe)"

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:06

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

HEY GAIL posted:

almost the entire 17th century says that's wrong.

the answer is "both god AND astrology/witches/demons/ghosts (maybe)"

Also the middle ages and the classical world.

Institutions of faith like churches can be bastions against superstition but the ability of complex theological ideas that outlaw superstition to really penetrate to the peasantry (that is to say, most people) for a lot of history has been very limited.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:10

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Disinterested posted:

Also the middle ages and the classical world.

Institutions of faith like churches can be bastions against superstition but the ability of complex theological ideas that outlaw superstition to really penetrate to the peasantry (that is to say, most people) for a lot of history has been very limited.

what if i told you that for the 17th c there is no difference between religion, superstition, and the weirder kinds of science

why would the church outlaw astrology, they believe in it too
everyone except calvin does

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:11

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

I'd argue there are some pretty key differences in the practice of religion in the 1600's and the 1900's.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:12

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

HEY GAIL posted:

almost the entire 17th century says that's wrong.

the answer is "both god AND astrology/witches/demons/ghosts (maybe)"

Astrology at least though is simply a science, not heresy/association with Satan :science:

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:12

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

HEY GAIL posted:

i think a carrier full of cats would own, actually. you should do this, libliuni

Man, I wish this was possible, but it would be really bad for the poor sods under my command. I would be the Cadorna of the oceans.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:12

P-Mack: Nov 10, 2007

China today has no problem being atheist and superstitious as heck. If ghosts are real, then they aren't supernatural QED

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:12

VanSandman: Feb 16, 2011; SWAP.AVI EXCHANGER

zoux posted:

I'd argue there are some pretty key differences in the practice of religion in the 1600's and the 1900's.

Yeah, but there doesn�t really have to be. Still the same old insane homo sapiens, doing stupid poo poo then justifying it later.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:24

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

feedmegin posted:

Astrology at least though is simply a science, not heresy/association with Satan

Astronomy is a science. Astrology is wishful thinking.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:26

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

feedmegin posted:

Astrology at least though is simply a science, not heresy/association with Satan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJXYMDu6dpY

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:30

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Cythereal posted:

Astronomy is a science. Astrology is wishful thinking.

This was very much Not Settled in the 17th century.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:37

dublish: Oct 31, 2011

Cythereal posted:

Astronomy is a science. Astrology is wishful thinking.

If astrology is such wishful thinking, how come theh were only able to kill Wallenstein after consulting all those horoscopes?

Check and mate. :colbert:

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:47

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

dublish posted:

If astrology is such wishful thinking, how come theh were only able to kill Wallenstein after consulting all those horoscopes?

Check and mate.

Gallas was in the room when Wallenstein was killed, and he swore he heard a report like a musket shot the instant he died, and that night the worst storm of the year blew up. Coincidence?

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:50

SlothfulCobra: Mar 27, 2011

Have there been any modern incidents of commanding officers having to metaphorically drown the prophetic chickens to get his subordinates to go out there and do their stuff?

# ? Oct 25, 2017 22:52

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

HEY GAIL posted:

what if i told you that for the 17th c there is no difference between religion, superstition, and the weirder kinds of science

why would the church outlaw astrology, they believe in it too
everyone except calvin does

Right but there's also simultaneous witchcraft persecution. In some cases there's a centralised agreement with forms of superstition; in others it's just how do you control the priesthood's practices and beliefs from the centre. And I think the answer to the latter question only really comes when the laity start giving more of a poo poo.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 23:29

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 15:42

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Jobbo_Fett posted:

"US Carrier Admiral William 'Bull' Halsey was so appalled to be put in charge of Task Force 13 and an operation due to commence on February 13, 1942, that he managed to get Pacific Fleet HQ to change both the number and the date."

I believe this TF became TF 16.

On the other hand, some of the crews in TG 67.4 at the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal were looking forward to midnight and the change to Friday the 13th, at least if I remember Neptune's Inferno correctly. A ton of stuff went wrong, but they also did much better than could be expected so maybe they were right.

# ? Oct 25, 2017 23:39

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