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Simian_Prime posted:Wasn’t one of the core book Hero antagonists a teenage girl who ended up in a coma after fighting off her Beast attacker? Remember when one of the beasts was an Indian lady based on a real vigilante group in real India that really provides protection for women and strong arms abusive spouses and poo poo when the court won't act, and the whole point was 'but is she not just as bad as the men who abuse women'. Extremely Normal Game
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Oct 25, 2017 22:36
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ProfessorCirno posted:I'm not gonna touch the topic of RPG.net moderation, but the idea that people are only now re-evaluating Beast is bizarre. At least here on SA, loving nobody bought into Beast at any point. It's ALWAYS been seen as super gross from day one. People aren't looking at Beast going "oh now that I know this information, this looks bad." People are going "I loving KNEW IT." Yeah. Like, when I read Beast at first it made my skin crawl. It felt like it was saying that my child-molesting cousin was in the right for what he did, and that I and others deserved it and how dare we be angry or upset about it. Now learning that the person behind Beast could well be the same kind of person as my cousin, it doesn't change how I feel about the book. It just makes me think that what I felt wasn't an accident on the book's part.
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Oct 25, 2017 22:54
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Warthur posted:Doxxing and death threats are lovely and pulling that poo poo over a game is petulant and childish beyond belief, and I have no sympathy for anyone who'd do that and every sympathy for anyone who was subjected to it. Eminently true. It *does,* however, mean that when you're dumping on the game and how it was made, you're in close position with an existing practice of doxxing and death threats, directed largely at people who were just working a job. Which means that being precise about what you're going after is called for. Ignoring that and dropping the widest, biggest load of poo poo you can find instead? That means you're giving cover to aforementioned doxxers and death-threateners, mixed right in there with whatever useful critique is being delivered.
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Oct 25, 2017 23:31
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Okay, but the people who introduced the topic of the other authors in the thread is... the other authors and no one here(Serf aside) seems to have said anything about them other than that they could have done better to salvage the shitshow that was Beast.
counterspin fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 23:35
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Levi Kornelsen posted:Eminently true. 'by criticizing the game you're just giving the doxxers protection' is a bold talking point I've usually only seen in lovely one indie video games, let's see if it can apply to a major publisher having one specific person criticized for just horrifically abusive and illegal behavior! Judges say no, no it can't. Beast is a poo poo game. I'm deeply sorry to the people here who worked on it who seem like perfectly fine people, I believe them when they say 'yeeeea the original version was not...this...', I get that sometimes a freelancer needs to turn in a poo poo sandwich to make rent. If you'll note, though, no one at all has actually poo poo talked those people. We've been super specific in saying that these revelations about one dude (who was a major dude in the creation of the game) take an already very troubling product into an even more gross light. People have been pretty drat precise actually! It's this one rapist who was a major player in making a game about heroic abusers and turning their victims who fight back into villains. That's what we're talking about, that's what we're saying 'holy poo poo' at. No one at all is throwing anyone else on the team under the bus...except the people demanding no one be allowed to say 'this is hosed up' I guess?
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Oct 25, 2017 23:44
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counterspin posted:Okay, but the people who introduced the topic of the other authors in the thread is... the other authors and no one here(Serf aside) seems to have said anything about them other than that they could have done better to salvage the shitshow that was Beast. In the last few pages here, that's true. In prior discussions here and otherwise (including RPGnet, where I too have one of those mod badges), that hasn't been true, and I'm twitching at my prophetic suspicion that this IS going to go around again, and we're going to see a lot of garbage dumped on those folks.
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Oct 25, 2017 23:45
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forums pre-crime being something a dude talks about unironically is the worst part of our cyberpunk hellscape
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Oct 25, 2017 23:49
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sexpig by night posted:forums pre-crime being something a dude talks about unironically is the worst part of our cyberpunk hellscape Nah; failure to capitalize and punctuate is the worst part of our cyberpunk hellscape.
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Oct 25, 2017 23:53
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Levi Kornelsen posted:Nah; failure to capitalize and punctuate is the worst part of our cyberpunk hellscape. i kno rite? edit: oh poo poo i still have my old avatar on here wheeeee
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Oct 25, 2017 23:55
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Levi Kornelsen posted:Nah; failure to capitalize and punctuate is the worst part of our cyberpunk hellscape. rood
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Oct 25, 2017 23:58
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Levi Kornelsen posted:Nah; failure to capitalize and punctuate is the worst part of our cyberpunk hellscape. Ah, yes, this is surely the moral high ground you want to pursue. The first thing I bought at GenCon this year was a copy of Demon: The Descent; I literally walked in the doors of the dealer hall, saw the OP booth, and bought a copy of it within minutes. I was super excited to own and read it, I've heard a lot of great about it, yay Demon. I've thrown it out post-revelations and donated what I spent on it to RAINN as a way to try and balance the karmic scales. I know a lot of other people worked on it and I hope OP can move on from this in whatever way they see fit, but lacking any other leverage I can only exercise my voice as a consumer of product, and this is the best way I know to do that. I think you rpg.net folks should probably exercise your voices by banning Matt, but I can't make that decision for you.
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Oct 26, 2017 00:02
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LatwPIAT posted:Add to this RPG.net's inconsistent , heavy-handed, and opaque moderation Discussion > Games > Traditional Games > TG As An Industry - welcome to the rpg site
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Oct 26, 2017 00:09
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Ettin posted:Discussion > Games > Traditional Games > TG As An Industry - welcome to the rpg site Hey, Ettin— Levi and I have exact same register date. Do you remember if there was an RPGnet/SA shitfite around then? Was that Exalted 3?
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Oct 26, 2017 00:38
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Ettin posted:Discussion > Games > Traditional Games > TG As An Industry - welcome to
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Oct 26, 2017 00:50
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J. H. Frank posted:Hey, Ettin— I'm not sure, it was a while ago and Exalted isn't really my thing. Probably though??
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Oct 26, 2017 01:26
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Well, they went ahead and gave BHM the permanent ban from RPGnet, so I guess that question is settled.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:36
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I'm glad they finally figured out that tough 'should we ban the abuser who has multiple people saying they feel unsafe with him around and we've already agreed was bad enough to take away his position of authority here' riddle.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:07
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On the plus side, now the non-rapist writers can fix Beast without interference. Hopefully, by a one page diagram of poochie returning to his home planet.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:30
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Honestly at this point the odds are probably in favor of the Beast line being publicly scrapped.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:31
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Levi Kornelsen posted:Nah; failure to capitalize and punctuate is the worst part of our cyberpunk hellscape. you used a semicolon wrong there
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Oct 26, 2017 02:39
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sexpig by night posted:I'm glad they finally figured out that tough 'should we ban the abuser who has multiple people saying they feel unsafe with him around and we've already agreed was bad enough to take away his position of authority here' riddle.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:45
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Rand Brittain posted:Honestly at this point the odds are probably in favor of the Beast line being publicly scrapped. Good, if it happens. I'm not saying that to dance on anyone's grave but Beast is unquestionably one of the skeeviest things Onyx Path has put their name on and it would be better for them to distance themselves from it.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:46
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Does the man who raped a child deserve punishment as harsh as the one who presumptively declared that HR departments work for their corporate employers first and foremost? With a heavy heart we have reluctantly concluded that yes, he does. Please understand how difficult this decision was for us.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:48
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Kai Tave posted:Good, if it happens. I'm not saying that to dance on anyone's grave but Beast is unquestionably one of the skeeviest things Onyx Path has put their name on and it would be better for them to distance themselves from it. Finally, my time to shine. How do I pitch my idea to Onyx Path and how do they feel about Anime?
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Oct 26, 2017 02:53
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Kai Tave posted:Good, if it happens. I'm not saying that to dance on anyone's grave but Beast is unquestionably one of the skeeviest things Onyx Path has put their name on and it would be better for them to distance themselves from it. I don't really disagree.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:54
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FMguru posted:Does the man who raped a child deserve punishment as harsh as the one who presumptively declared that HR departments work for their corporate employers first and foremost? With a heavy heart we have reluctantly concluded that yes, he does. No one got permabanned for the HR thing. The guy who posted it didn't even get kicked from the thread, just a "Hey don't do that" warning. I mean there's actual things that happened that you could use to score cheap rhetorical points with instead. unseenlibrarian fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Oct 26, 2017 |
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Oct 26, 2017 02:55
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Ettin posted:Finally, my time to shine. How do I pitch my idea to Onyx Path and how do they feel about Anime?
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Oct 26, 2017 02:58
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I'm looking forward* to the newfound love and respect for Beast in the usual lovely tradgame places. * 
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Oct 26, 2017 03:04
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Traveller posted:I'm looking forward* to the newfound love and respect for Beast in the usual lovely tradgame places. I don't think even 4chan wanted to ironically embrace Beast back when it was new.
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Oct 26, 2017 03:08
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Kai Tave posted:I don't think even 4chan wanted to ironically embrace Beast back when it was new. Right. There's too many LGBTQ characters in it on top of the unsutble digs at channers and reddit fedoralords.
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Oct 26, 2017 03:17
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unseenlibrarian posted:I mean there's actual things that happened that you could use to score cheap rhetorical points with instead. Like their bizarre definitions of personal attacks!
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Oct 26, 2017 03:26
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Nuns with Guns posted:you used a semicolon wrong there “Incorrectly”.
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Oct 26, 2017 03:37
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wrongly
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Oct 26, 2017 03:39
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Traveller posted:I'm looking forward* to the newfound love and respect for Beast in the usual lovely tradgame places. I don't think anyone really liked Beast, not even the creators once it was all said and done.
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Oct 26, 2017 03:49
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I don't think anyone really liked Beast, not even the creators once it was all said and done. There were a couple of people who really seemed to identify with the "I am a monster demonized by all for my deviance" angle, but not very many. Although general grapevining seems to indicate that Beast didn't sell any worse than, say, Mummy, so who knows.
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Oct 26, 2017 04:05
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Desiden posted:On the plus side, now the non-rapist writers can fix Beast without interference. He was banned from rpg.net, he wasn't removed from onyx path.
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Oct 26, 2017 04:18
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Rand Brittain posted:There were a couple of people who really seemed to identify with the "I am a monster demonized by all for my deviance" angle, but not very many. I have no way to verify this obviously but I kind of doubt the majority of Beast's sales were from people strongly identifying with its tortured "abusers are the real champions" metaphor and were instead people plunking down money because "hot diggity, a nWoD game where I get to play a Hydra or Godzilla" or something without delving any further than that. Like, up til Beast OP hadn't really put out anything that raised any serious red flags, Mummy was a little lackluster I guess, but Demon was by all accounts a critical darling with lots of good buzz and word of mouth so when Matt McFarland comes along and says he wants to make a game about being Monsters facing off against Heroes I imagine that was enough to get people pledging sight unseen. Maybe Beast is secretly super popular on the WoD forums and it wins all those "vote for your favorite historical mini-settings" polls or something, but in the realm of anecdotes I hear less people talk about Beast at all than I do even Promethean.
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Oct 26, 2017 04:21
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Rand Brittain posted:There were a couple of people who really seemed to identify with the "I am a monster demonized by all for my deviance" angle, but not very many. These people should be on some kind of watchlist. Levi Kornelsen posted:In the last few pages here, that's true. In prior discussions here and otherwise (including RPGnet, where I too have one of those mod badges), We could tell, you bear the distinctive signs of your clan's passive-aggressive concern trolling.
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Oct 26, 2017 04:40
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Rand Brittain posted:Although general grapevining seems to indicate that Beast didn't sell any worse than, say, Mummy, so who knows. Even divorced of all other concepts I figure "like Vampire except you're an otherkin who feeds on fear and likes teaming up" is an easier thing to put together a group and have a hook for than "metaplot mummies through the ages, also maybe consider troupe play". For a while, when I didn't actively follow WoD stuff, I didn't even know Mummy existed.
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Oct 26, 2017 04:45
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Levi Kornelsen posted:Nah; failure to capitalize and punctuate is the worst part of our cyberpunk hellscape. ~Group attack against people with broken keyboards, consider yourself warned.~
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Oct 26, 2017 05:20
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