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Chomskyan posted:Ah yes, the nonsensical fringe argument that it's bad to associate yourself with war criminals Well it certainly is fringe in America, that's undeniable.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:56
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The Kingfish posted:I would never cast my vote for a person who chums around with literal war criminals and mass murders. this is because of my misogyny.  Damning stuff
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Oct 26, 2017 01:56
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I don’t get why people harp on the Iraq War vote, necessarily, when the Afghanistan War vote was worse Really, you think so?
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Oct 26, 2017 01:57
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:yeah we should go in and give them railroads, modern medicine, electrification etc. like true benefactors used to in africa back in the day You dont need to seize an entire nation to provide for it. We enacted the Marshall Plan without (literally, it certainly bought us a lot of influence) taking over Europe. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yo. Yo. True; I admit I'm not up to date 100% with what Washington did to native americans (beside what all the anerican colonists had done, of course). I guess Jackson's crimes tend to make other early presidents' pale in comparison. Nikalajoga posted:Ah good, we've got you on record as endorsing regime change. So long as it involves securing the wellbeing of the regime-less nation. I doubt you will see many disagree on that, it's just....that wasn't what we did.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:57
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Neurolimal posted:So long as it involves securing the wellbeing of the regime-less nation. I doubt you will see many disagree on that, it's just....that wasn't what we did. This is awe-inspiringly colonialist.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:58
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Crowsbeak posted:We should leave there. In Ladin is dead and the Taliban hate ISIS more then us. I mean that the 2001 AUMF is the basis for all the drone war adventurism poo poo we see today The Iraq War vote didn’t authorize us bombing Yemen and Syria and Pakistan and Sudan and wherever else we’re fighting; that was Afghanistan
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Oct 26, 2017 01:59
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I mean that the 2001 AUMF is the basis for all the drone war adventurism poo poo we see today Well I can agree with this, AUMF should not have been done the way it was.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:00
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Nikalajoga posted:Ah, understanding of political mass action as ideally being driven by sentimentalist consumerism. Quite a Red Guard you are. You're not even trying to hide who you are now, c'mon man, have some fun with it.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:01
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Neurolimal posted:You dont need to seize an entire nation to provide for it. We enacted the Marshall Plan without (literally, it certainly bought us a lot of influence) taking over Europe. ahh okay so we should just launder our operations through a suzerainty and its a-okay
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Oct 26, 2017 02:01
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You know who else justified the military occupation of other nations through claims they were providing for them...
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Oct 26, 2017 02:02
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I mean that the 2001 AUMF is the basis for all the drone war adventurism poo poo we see today the 2001 AUMF was pushed through while the country was in shock, the 2003 iraq war vote was in the face of a massive popular antiwar campaign
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Oct 26, 2017 02:02
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the US has never fought a legitimate war. Its war crimes all the way down to the revolution itself
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Oct 26, 2017 02:03
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Nikalajoga posted:This is awe-inspiringly colonialist. I mean, if you ignore the part where we're talking about a country who the majority of citizens had disapproved and revolted against the existing regime, sure. I guess I could see how you might mistake that for colonial expansion.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:03
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Calibanibal posted:the US has never fought a legitimate war. Its war crimes all the way down to the revolution itself Actually, I think you'll find that "gently caress Nazis and Confederates" is a cool and good position, comrade.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:04
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Crowsbeak posted:Well I can agree with this, AUMF should not have been done the way it was. Everyone who voted for it should have known that you go to war with the AUMF you have, not the AUMF you might want or wish to have at a later time
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Oct 26, 2017 02:04
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I dunno. Huey and Che eventually came around on the Homosexual question and both still considered themselves anti-revisionists.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:04
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yeah but the draft is a war crime
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Oct 26, 2017 02:04
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Neurolimal posted:I mean, if you ignore the part where we're talking about a country who the majority of citizens had disapproved and revolted against the existing regime, sure. I guess I could see how you might mistake that for colonial expansion. Well, hoss, Nikalajoga posted:You know who else justified the military occupation of other nations through claims they were providing for them... Is kind of the point here.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:04
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:the 2001 AUMF was pushed through while the country was in shock, the 2003 iraq war vote was in the face of a massive popular antiwar campaign The ol’ Lincoln Chafee “it was my first day” defense?
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Oct 26, 2017 02:05
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Has anyone ever expressed regret over their vote for the AUMF?
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Oct 26, 2017 02:05
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Nikalajoga posted:You know who else justified the military occupation of other nations through claims they were providing for them... You . With your Libya poo poo.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:06
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Has anyone ever expressed regret over their vote for the AUMF? Me, even though it was just an AOL chatroom poll
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Oct 26, 2017 02:08
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Calibanibal posted:Me, even though it was just an AOL chatroom poll a/s/l/w
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Oct 26, 2017 02:09
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Nikalajoga posted:Well, hoss, I'd been thinking we'd engaged in a joint operation with the new Libyan government to aid in securing the country while providing economic aid, rather than a military takeover/occupation. We're a long ways off from the original discussion though, which was 'was our actions in Libya justified" (to which my response was "no, not unless we did our part to repair and protect the country, which we did not"). How about we rerail this tangent?
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Oct 26, 2017 02:09
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:The ol’ Lincoln Chafee “it was my first day” defense? you aren't so naive as to expect politicians to do the right thing on their own. the question is which social movements they are accountable to. 2003 anyone voting for the iraq war had to cross the mass anti-war movement in a way they didn't in 2001 (because the mass anti-war movement had yet to coalesce). of course all national us politicians are hopelessly compromised etc but you can draw different lessons from each of those votes
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Oct 26, 2017 02:09
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Everyone who voted for it should have known that you go to war with the AUMF you have, not the AUMF you might want or wish to have at a later time They should apologise for not looking at it close enough. Everyone after 9/11 wanted to make it look like they were taking down aq. Compared to war with Iraq though which is directly tied to the civil war in Syria. That is the worst.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:10
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stone cold posted:a/s/l/w I made this joke in the d&d chat threads and got heckled over it, so I feel justified in doing the same to you  Shame! Shaaaame! Reaction emotes!
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Oct 26, 2017 02:11
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Neurolimal posted:I'd been thinking we'd engaged in a joint operation with the new Libyan government to aid in securing the country while providing economic aid, rather than a military takeover/occupation. We're a long ways off from the original discussion though, which was 'was our actions in Libya justified" (to which my response was "no, not unless we did our part to repair and protect the country, which we did not"). How about we rerail this tangent? To "aid in securing the country". Uh huh. Mm hmm. Glad to see you can recognize, if dimly, the absurd rhetorical contortions you're engaging in here. Anyways, how 'bout we go back to whether George Washington had good foreign policy?
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Oct 26, 2017 02:11
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is the w weight? thats so drat rude to ask
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Oct 26, 2017 02:12
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Nikalajoga posted:To "aid in securing the country". Uh huh. Mm hmm. Glad to see you can recognize, if dimly, the absurd rhetorical contortions you're engaging in here. I'm glad you're enjoying getting back into trying to paint me as a fascist 'eff, we both know what I meant. I already admitted inexperience WRT Washington's native forpol, to a far more tolerable poster.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:15
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Neurolimal posted:I'm glad you're enjoying getting back into trying to paint me as a fascist 'eff, we both know what I meant. You don't have to be a fascist to engage in colonialism, amigo. Okay then, maybe we can get back to you agreeing with the idea that American support for Benito Juarez was wrong, then?
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Oct 26, 2017 02:17
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:WOMEN AREN'T RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF EVERY MAN THEY'VE EVER MET
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Oct 26, 2017 02:17
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you're not allowed to accuse someone of being an effectronica rereg until they make a death threat or allude to death threats against themselves. This is the rule neurolimal and you will abide by it.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:18
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Nikalajoga posted:You don't have to be a fascist to engage in colonialism, amigo. Protecting American crossborder border interests is perfectly allowable.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:19
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Calibanibal posted:you're not allowed to accuse someone of being an effectronica rereg until they make a death threat or allude to death threats against themselves. This is the rule neurolimal and you will abide by it. Nikalajoga posted:So the war against the Ohio Confederacy and American actions with Haiti don't count, and you teeter on the edge of endorsing Herrenvolkisch ideas. Wonderful. Just look at it!
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Oct 26, 2017 02:20
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Crowsbeak posted:Protecting American crossborder border interests is perfectly allowable. The Herrenvolk are out in full force tonite, I see.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:20
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I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but Craig Brittain is running for Senate in Arizona. That name might ring a bell, there was a big thread about the guy in 2012 over his website IsAnybodyDown. I'm so disappointed that I can't confidently claim that he doesn't have a chance.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:22
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Nikalajoga posted:The Herrenvolk are out in full force tonite, I see. You got me. Heil Sanders.
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Oct 26, 2017 02:26
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Nikalajoga posted:I don't think you can say that the Libyan Civil War would have ended easily and neatly without any lasting damage to the country if only Gaddafi had been allowed to slaughter all dissidents, to be quite honest. Maybe if you don't have a brain, a heart, or any courage. Neurolimal posted:So long as it involves securing the wellbeing of the regime-less nation. I doubt you will see many disagree on that, it's just....that wasn't what we did. Nikalajoga posted:This is awe-inspiringly colonialist. So what are you arguing here, that giving foreign aid to a country is colonialist, but showing up to bomb them every ten years and then forgetting about them until it's time to bomb them again is benevolent interventionism?
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Oct 26, 2017 02:27
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Neurolimal posted:Just look at it! Awkward and forced erudition is typical but not conclusive. Now cease this!!
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Oct 26, 2017 02:28
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