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Air Canada does boarding by zone (which is visible either on the paper boarding pass or electronic one) and they are pretty tight with enforcing it (zone 3 is the back, zone 4 the middle, and 5 the front of the economy cabin). Not that it doesn't stop the entire gate lounge from getting up and cramming towards the gate as soon as they make the preboarding announcement. Anyway, Zone 2 is anyone who holds some level of frequent flyer priority, but not necessarily business class. It's the dumbest thing, especially on a narrow body, and basically defeats the whole purpose of boarding by zone. You get all these zone 2 people (and on YYZ-YYC, there are a lot of zone 2 people) who fill up random aisle and middle seats all the way down the cabin. Then they have to get up and move when the window seat shows up, and again when the middle seat shows up, causing traffic jams down the whole length of the aircraft and backing everyone up the bridge. Like, if you're going to board economy class by zone, you can't let 1/3 of the passengers on randomly beforehand. I guess you have to give the frequent fliers something though.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:37
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Just make checked baggage free and carry-on expensive. Then there will always be space in overhead bins because paying any amount of money for anything is anathema to 95% of humanity, and there won't be a mad rush to board. EDIT: And the theory that business class passengers get boarded first to save money on drinks in the lounge is not true, because they will serve you drinks on-board the aircraft during boarding.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:39
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PT6A posted:EDIT: And the theory that business class passengers get boarded first to save money on drinks in the lounge is not true, because they will serve you drinks on-board the aircraft during boarding.
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Oct 25, 2017 17:42
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Here's my question: why the gently caress do they board the front of the cabin first and work towards the rear? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to board the rear people first and work towards the front? That way you don't have traffic jams in the aisles as people spend five minutes digging out all their iPads and blankets and pillows and water bottles and toys before attempting to cram their bag into space in the overhead bin that's six inches too narrow.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:48
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PT6A posted:People are always confused when I keep going to the back of the line for boarding. If I'm checking luggage and I don't need the carry-on space, you better believe the best position to be in is the last person boarding the aircraft. Like, I'm going to sit for the next few hours, why add extra time to that? Used to work better, but more recently they've been closing the doors as soon as the last person is on the jetway, and they' don't really wait around. I always used to sit and wait and wait and wait until the last boarding call, but now all that happens is that I get stuck standing at the end of the line in a full jetway with the boarding gate closed behind me. Also on boarding, almost every flight I took in Europe this summer (and there were over 10 in a two week span including connections) was just a bum-rush. An hour before boarding people just started lining up, and none of the gate crews gave a single poo poo. Well that's not true, I think there was a lady in...Barcelona, maybe? Who went down the lines checking boarding passes and yelling at people until they got in the right lane. A dude in front of me was clearly in the wrong line (rows 1-15, 26-30, first class, etc.) and gave this girl poo poo for five minutes for making him move. Like...it's not hard to understand, man, just move.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:49
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PT6A posted:EDIT: And the theory that business class passengers get boarded first to save money on drinks in the lounge is not true, because they will serve you drinks on-board the aircraft during boarding. Drinks in the lounge are probably cheaper for the airline than drinks on board too, especially if lounge admission isn't due to ticket class (i.e. a credit card perk or straight up a lounge unaffiliated with the airline.)
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Oct 25, 2017 18:54
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Sagebrush posted:Here's my question: why the gently caress do they board the front of the cabin first and work towards the rear? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to board the rear people first and work towards the front? That way you don't have traffic jams in the aisles as people spend five minutes digging out all their iPads and blankets and pillows and water bottles and toys before attempting to cram their bag into space in the overhead bin that's six inches too narrow. Because I Am An Important Person. That's it. You couldn't imagine how petty the 1st/business class passengers can be. They will throw a tantrum if someone else in business that they perceive as being on a lower frequent flier tier is asked what meal they want before them, and I've watched them straight up move someone's bags from over their seat to somewhere else so they could have that locker. Frequent flier programs are essentially just levels of entitlement.
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Oct 25, 2017 19:35
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Sagebrush posted:Here's my question: why the gently caress do they board the front of the cabin first and work towards the rear? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to board the rear people first and work towards the front? That way you don't have traffic jams in the aisles as people spend five minutes digging out all their iPads and blankets and pillows and water bottles and toys before attempting to cram their bag into space in the overhead bin that's six inches too narrow. Back‐to‐front seems reasonable, but random boarding, where there is no correlation between seat location and seating order, is actually faster. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Oct 25, 2017 |
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Oct 25, 2017 19:38
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Platystemon posted:Back‐to‐front seems reasonable, but random boarding, where there is no correlation between seal location and seating order, is actually faster. The mythbusters episode about it summarized by Jalponik (with video) https://www.google.ca/amp/s/jalopnik.com/mythbusters-proves-most-airlines-board-planes-all-wrong-1636981904/amp
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Oct 25, 2017 19:55
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Sagebrush posted:Here's my question: why the gently caress do they board the front of the cabin first and work towards the rear? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to board the rear people first and work towards the front? That way you don't have traffic jams in the aisles as people spend five minutes digging out all their iPads and blankets and pillows and water bottles and toys before attempting to cram their bag into space in the overhead bin that's six inches too narrow. Yeah it's all status. Window-Middle-Aisle is the fastest practical way to do it (with the exceptions for people with young kids/those in need of assistance that should be pre-boarded anyway). But they're more concerned with customer experience than boarding efficiency, so the current way isn't going anywhere.
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Oct 25, 2017 20:55
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Air Canada plane lands on SFO runway without clearance [not a repost]
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Oct 25, 2017 21:45
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Finger Prince posted:They will throw a tantrum if someone else in business that they perceive as being on a lower frequent flier tier is asked what meal they want before them I actually get why that's a big deal. I was on a BA flight in business class, and by the time they got around to me (since I had no status with the airline) it was basically "gently caress you, you get a British steak (which, amazingly, was still available  -- why they thought anyone would order that on a flight to Alberta is beyond me) or a salad."Having first dibs on the "good meal" is more than just being petty. It's a small thing, yes, but it's not just about perceived status.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:46
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Finger Prince posted:The mythbusters episode about it summarized by Jalponik (with video) So essentially it comes down to: it costs the airline a little extra money to make the plane wait longer, but they make more than that back by charging people extra to avoid the deliberately annoying boarding process. 
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Oct 25, 2017 21:53
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That's weird. At least it was not a eyelash from catastrophe this time? For us non-professionals, how weird is this?
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Oct 25, 2017 22:20
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Nebakenezzer posted:That's weird. At least it was not a eyelash from catastrophe this time? It's pretty bad timing. Best case, it was equipment failure and nothing further could be done. The pessimist in me wonders if Air Canada heard the transmissions but ignored them because they thought the instructions were unnecessary. Pilots and controllers get into pissing matches sometimes. Sounds like the runway was clear anyway.
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Oct 25, 2017 22:24
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Ignoring a go around call on purpose at such a big airport seems like pissing match your doomed to lose. No planes on the runway, but I am guessing "no harm, no foul" is not the FAA's motto. The radio does seem noisy in the recording, but was it clear all through approach and then suddenly noisy?
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Oct 25, 2017 22:57
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Sagebrush posted:So essentially it comes down to: it costs the airline a little extra money to make the plane wait longer, but they make more than that back by charging people extra to avoid the deliberately annoying boarding process. They’re not very good at charging it then. I’ve been on flights where half a md-90 boarded with or before sky priority.
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Oct 25, 2017 23:08
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PT6A posted:I actually get why that's a big deal. I was on a BA flight in business class, and by the time they got around to me (since I had no status with the airline) it was basically "gently caress you, you get a British steak (which, amazingly, was still available In a perfect world there would be enough meals for everyone to have their choice. Maintenance and groomers need to eat too, so it's not like cooked but unclaimed food goes to waste! But what I'm talking about isn't so much getting stuck with the unpopular option, it's having someone served before you (even if they payed significantly more money for the flight). Obviously it's not all the super diamond studded platinum elite passengers, but there are enough that are like that that they get a reputation of being massive ego princesses.
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Oct 26, 2017 00:16
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Finger Prince posted:In a perfect world there would be enough meals for everyone to have their choice. Maintenance and groomers need to eat too, so it's not like cooked but unclaimed food goes to waste! Oh, for sure. I think it's actually worse in business class because there are more meal choices, and fewer passengers, so the odds are higher that they'll run out of something, especially if there's one obvious "loser." I'm just pointing out there's a valid reason, sometimes, to care about the order in which food orders are taken. There's much less reason to get horny about boarding first, especially if overhead bin space is not a concern. Is there a logistical reason they can't ask for your meal preference at booking, or some point before the flight, so you're guaranteed to receive what you want? I see that option for special meals, but never for "ordinary" meals.
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Oct 26, 2017 00:47
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PT6A posted:Oh, for sure. I think it's actually worse in business class because there are more meal choices, and fewer passengers, so the odds are higher that they'll run out of something, especially if there's one obvious "loser." I'm pretty sure if you're Altitude Elite at AC, your concierge can arrange your choice of meal in advance (making the whole getting asked first thing pretty redundant actually, though it doesn't account for changing your mind). Booking a special meal is actually a good way of getting your choice and getting something decent when you're down the back. As for the catering logistics, while the business class meals have some level of inventory tracking so they can sort of get the loadouts right, there just isn't any way to reliably track usage of 2-400 economy meals on every widebody flight. One way you could do it is barcode scan each meal when you hand them out and input the seat into the scanner. Then you'd know whose choosing what, and how early you sell out of an option. It would be a major undertaking though, and it's not going to save a ton of money or greatly increase passenger experience if you did do it. The buy on board stuff is technically inventoried, but obviously poorly because they never have enough of the not poo poo stuff.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:12
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I don't think they plan it out in that much detail. The food is (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) usually made by local contractors who may not have any formal connection to the airline, and the carrier just buys a mixture of however many meals they need for that flight. If you picked your meal at the beginning, it would be impossible to coordinate the logistics properly with people cancelling flights, buying last-minute tickets, changing their preferences at the last second, Etc
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Oct 26, 2017 01:14
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PT6A posted:...especially if overhead bin space is not a concern. What flights have you been on in the past ten years where this has been the case? In my experience, since the airlines started charging for checked bags, 95% of passengers stuff their entire lives into their “carryon”, and hobble down the aisle like some kind of overloaded vagrant bag lady.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:20
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MrYenko posted:What flights have you been on in the past ten years where this has been the case? In my experience, since the airlines started charging for checked bags, 95% of passengers stuff their entire lives into their “carryon”, and hobble down the aisle like some kind of overloaded vagrant bag lady. I think that's meant to be read as "you personally don't care since you don't have carryon".
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Oct 26, 2017 01:28
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Sagebrush posted:I don't think they plan it out in that much detail. The food is (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) usually made by local contractors who may not have any formal connection to the airline, and the carrier just buys a mixture of however many meals they need for that flight. If you picked your meal at the beginning, it would be impossible to coordinate the logistics properly with people cancelling flights, buying last-minute tickets, changing their preferences at the last second, Etc It's usually contractors. Interesting fact, Aspen doesn't have a local contractor so any meals served on flights out of Aspen have to be flown in with the plane.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:46
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Sagebrush posted:I don't think they plan it out in that much detail. The food is (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) usually made by local contractors who may not have any formal connection to the airline, and the carrier just buys a mixture of however many meals they need for that flight. If you picked your meal at the beginning, it would be impossible to coordinate the logistics properly with people cancelling flights, buying last-minute tickets, changing their preferences at the last second, Etc Yeah that's pretty much it, but the airline chooses the general meal plan. I can't think of how it would even be technically possible to offer a choice of even as few as two options to all passengers prior to flight though.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:47
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crazypeltast52 posted:It's usually contractors. That's pretty common, especially on regional routes. It's called double catering.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:49
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MrYenko posted:What flights have you been on in the past ten years where this has been the case? In my experience, since the airlines started charging for checked bags, 95% of passengers stuff their entire lives into their “carryon”, and hobble down the aisle like some kind of overloaded vagrant bag lady. I meant specifically business class travellers, which is what I thought we were talking about (viewing advanced boarding as a benefit of flying business class). There is more overhead space per passenger in business class because there are no middle seats, checked baggage is usually free, and checked baggage gets a priority tag so (in theory) you won't have to wait as long for your baggage. Personally, I've never had a problem finding overhead space in business class. At most, it can be a bit hosed in winter when people bring heavy coats and poo poo on board with them, but I've still never had a problem fitting my properly sized bag in the overhead. In economy class, overhead bin space is absolutely a concern, which is why carry-on limits should be strictly enforced (a thing I've seen in Europe, but never North America) or the pricing model should be changed to make carry-on more expensive than checked baggage. If you price based on utility and convenience, it would make perfect sense that carry-on would cost more. Finger Prince posted:I'm pretty sure if you're Altitude Elite at AC, your concierge can arrange your choice of meal in advance (making the whole getting asked first thing pretty redundant actually, though it doesn't account for changing your mind). Booking a special meal is actually a good way of getting your choice and getting something decent when you're down the back. Yeah, I'm talking specifically business class, in which meal pre-selection seems like it could be doable, especially on routes flying from a hub rather than to a hub. There's no chance they could do it at economy scale. Do status fliers get asked their meal preference first if they aren't flying in business class? I've never paid attention to that.
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Oct 26, 2017 01:50
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PT6A posted:In economy class, overhead bin space is absolutely a concern, which is why carry-on limits should be strictly enforced (a thing I've seen in Europe, but never North America) or the pricing model should be changed to make carry-on more expensive than checked baggage. If you price based on utility and convenience, it would make perfect sense that carry-on would cost more.
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Oct 26, 2017 03:01
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PT6A posted:Yeah, I'm talking specifically business class, in which meal pre-selection seems like it could be doable, especially on routes flying from a hub rather than to a hub. There's no chance they could do it at economy scale. Do status fliers get asked their meal preference first if they aren't flying in business class? I've never paid attention to that. This definitely exists, on Delta and/or AA. edit: quote:Reserve your meal in advance
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Oct 26, 2017 03:10
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standard.deviant posted:Until they start stuffing FedEx packages into empty overhead bins I’m sure this has crossed executive desks hundreds of times.
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Oct 26, 2017 03:15
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PT6A posted:I meant specifically business class travellers, which is what I thought we were talking about (viewing advanced boarding as a benefit of flying business class). There is more overhead space per passenger in business class because there are no middle seats, checked baggage is usually free, and checked baggage gets a priority tag so (in theory) you won't have to wait as long for your baggage. Personally, I've never had a problem finding overhead space in business class. At most, it can be a bit hosed in winter when people bring heavy coats and poo poo on board with them, but I've still never had a problem fitting my properly sized bag in the overhead. Having been gold on Delta for a few years now I’m pretty sure the priority tag actually means your bag will be the last off the plane. Also somehow no matter how long the line is at passport control you will always wait an additional 15 minutes for your bag at customs. (I will give credit for delta’s domestic bags on time guarantee, even if it seems it’s the last bag on the belt they seem to make it within those 20 minutes very consistently)
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Oct 26, 2017 03:44
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MrYenko posted:What flights have you been on in the past ten years where this has been the case? In my experience, since the airlines started charging for checked bags, 95% of passengers stuff their entire lives into their “carryon”, and hobble down the aisle like some kind of overloaded vagrant bag lady. Don't sign your posts. 
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Oct 26, 2017 03:55
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hobbesmaster posted:(I will give credit for delta’s domestic bags on time guarantee, even if it seems it’s the last bag on the belt they seem to make it within those 20 minutes very consistently) I'm still impressed by it every time at MIA, which is not what I've come to expect there.
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Oct 26, 2017 05:35
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I like AirNZ's way of dealing with Trans-Tasman flights. Don't want a meal? Don't pay for it. Don't need checked baggage? Don't pay for it. It's a 3 hour flight, bring and sandwich and watch a movie on your iPhone. I did get a stealth upgrade to a business or premium economy seat once on a 787. That was nice.
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Oct 26, 2017 07:20
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I want "Asterisk-class" to become a thing. If there's a free First Class seat? Lottery that fucker at the gate, but let the 'lucky' coach flier know he'll be enjoying coach-style hospitality in exchange for a much comfier seat. They'll be flying First* Class. No special treatment, free food, drink, and movies for them - no bonus miles - just a much comfier seat. If you're flying Business* or First* on a plane with lay-flat/convertible bed seats? Here's your bedding, make it yourself like an adult, then stow it when it's time to land. Obviously this doesn't apply if the person's flying First or Business because they were bumped from an earlier flight. gently caress the airline, then - let that person get liquored up and sleep it off.
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Oct 26, 2017 07:30
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I want "Asterisk-class" to become a thing. If there's a free First Class seat? Lottery that fucker at the gate, but let the 'lucky' coach flier know he'll be enjoying coach-style hospitality in exchange for a much comfier seat. They'll be flying First* Class. No special treatment, free food, drink, and movies for them - no bonus miles - just a much comfier seat. gently caress your asterisk class, that J seat is for standby staff travel!
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Oct 26, 2017 07:46
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If you haven't seen/heard them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFx1Cpxpx1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5SdzElE58k
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Oct 26, 2017 07:51
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This feels like the perfect time to share these 10min of 1959 socialism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3eVW5sWPes
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Oct 26, 2017 13:34
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:This feels like the perfect time to share these 10min of 1959 socialism: I love the old Soviet style of pilot leather jackets.  It makes them all look like small time gangsters.
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Oct 26, 2017 13:57
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I want "Asterisk-class" to become a thing. If there's a free First Class seat? Lottery that fucker at the gate, but let the 'lucky' coach flier know he'll be enjoying coach-style hospitality in exchange for a much comfier seat. They'll be flying First* Class. No special treatment, free food, drink, and movies for them - no bonus miles - just a much comfier seat. Domestic: Just get in line behind the other 100 people on the upgrade list. International: I’ve gotten offers to upgrade for $1000 on transpac flights at check in before. They’re doing stuff like this kinda. The highest tiers of frequent flier statuses also get so many international standby upgrades. The real problem is that there are not all that many seats up front anymore compared with even 5 years ago.
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Oct 26, 2017 14:25
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