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I'm cool with getting my guys in to fight and spotting with the Hitman, but it's worth noting that where that Clan mech patrolling the 07XX road ends up next turn will have it spot the Mongoose. We're going to need to push up and follow through quickly to keep things under control. That's if we manage to get this Wyvern down this turn. Either way, I'm good to kick the scouts into high gear and start hunting for the Command Center in the next couple turns.
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Oct 26, 2017 04:34
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Capskye posted:I'm cool with getting my guys in to fight and spotting with the Hitman, but it's worth noting that where that Clan mech patrolling the 07XX road ends up next turn will have it spot the Mongoose. We're going to need to push up and follow through quickly to keep things under control. That's if we manage to get this Wyvern down this turn. Either way, I'm good to kick the scouts into high gear and start hunting for the Command Center in the next couple turns. If you engage MASC and get to 1126, I think 0823 blocks LOS from 0723 to that hex.
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Oct 26, 2017 05:04
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MJ12 posted:That's a Mechwarrior conceit. SRMs and LRMs are both guided (this is why SRMs can use Artemis IV, and have/had Dumbfire ammo). MRM and Rocket Launchers are the only missile system which isn't guided. The Streak difference is that Streak missile targeting systems are really, really good, and the weapon is designed so that it doesn't fire unless it 'knows' from the targeting telemetry that the missile will hit. I always though pilots were the equivalent of techpriests, tealeaf reading garbage from broken telemetry. Thankfully at some point the ritual of firing every ten seconds evolved to include the process of using outboard cameras and installing iron sights on their weapons. Streaks were probably reverse engineered from a cache of faulty NATO hardware. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Oct 26, 2017 |
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Oct 26, 2017 05:37
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Battletech combat is a horrible mess of conflicting ewar systems, and combat happens very fast so even guided munitions will have trouble hitting. Guardian ECM and the like is just what happens when you have literal tons of ewar equipment dedicated to loving with enemy targeting gear.
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Oct 26, 2017 07:01
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wiegieman posted:Battletech combat is a horrible mess of conflicting ewar systems, and combat happens very fast so even guided munitions will have trouble hitting. Guardian ECM and the like is just what happens when you have literal tons of ewar equipment dedicated to loving with enemy targeting gear. Also they're trying to fire weapons from a zillion places on the mech at once. Let's say you want to alpha strike in the coolest mech there is, the Hauptmann. Imagine trying to aim laser pointers on your right shoulder, the top and bottoms of your hands, both of your nipples and your mouth at the same point.
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Oct 26, 2017 07:26
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Defiance Industries posted:Also they're trying to fire weapons from a zillion places on the mech at once. Let's say you want to alpha strike in the coolest mech there is, the Hauptmann. Imagine trying to aim laser pointers on your right shoulder, the top and bottoms of your hands, both of your nipples and your mouth at the same point. Or the poor Cicada with the knee-mounted machineguns.
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Oct 26, 2017 08:01
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W.T. Fits posted:Okay, so that means the only ones who can possibly fire on the Wyvern this turn are the Quickdraw, the Mongoose, the Hitman, myself and anyone with LRMs that Indirect Fire on the Wyvern provided someone acts as a spotter for them. From the time I had to use it, its not that great. Keep in mind the spotters movement penalties apply to the shot; 3 total. Target, shooter, spotter, plus the tax. At a glance, available team LRMS all have gunnery 3. bandersnatch 3*5 charger 1*20 hitman 1*5 As a rule of thumb, the spotter should probably walk. I believe there's an additional +1 for the lrmboats numbers if the spotter shoots also. Doublechecking from last time: Spotter adds a +1 to own shot for the priviledge. Shooter adds a +1 for indirect, a +1 for the spotter shooting, and +spotters movement mode. (minimum +3 in total in this instance.) I might be rusty, but I think the wyvern jumping 4 is a +2 move mod. So you're looking at g3+target move 2 + indirect shenanigrams +2 = 7's before move mods. (if your spotter jumps, haha, you're effed and stuck with a +3 on top of that. Best case in that scenario is walking to short range for 9's.) It can be worth it if you're otherwise not going to get a shot; shooters: try to get at short range, but mind the minimum. Up to you if its worth it. TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Oct 26, 2017 |
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Oct 26, 2017 09:00
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I went through all my TROs to try and remember the mech I was thinking of that had ankle-mounted missile racks. Turns out it was this guy
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Oct 26, 2017 09:12
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Wouldn't we have to have full radio communication to coordinate an indirect missile strike like you're talking about?
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Oct 26, 2017 11:01
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A good poster posted:Wouldn't we have to have full radio communication to coordinate an indirect missile strike like you're talking about? I suspect it's possible to just pipe it through other people around obstacles all the way to the shooter.
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Oct 26, 2017 11:04
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Well, my Charger can walk to 2028 and get that Wyvern within short range for my LRM-20, so I'm up for it if we're assuming the missiles can arc so that they won't clip the helipad at 1425.
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Oct 26, 2017 11:32
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They won't clip. Until very recently, LRTs (torpedoes) were by RAW able to indirect fire between bodies of water because of the complete lack of a "check intervening terrain" step.
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Oct 26, 2017 14:42
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Quickdraw Orders sent - closing to melee with the Wyvern, and going with a kick for max damage potential. Roughnecks and Centurion - you can charge straight north to prepare to cross the road, but that will definitely get you spotted by the patrolling Mech that will end up in 0723 next turn. You can also turn right and take the road going from 1132 to 1430, or left going to where the Mongoose currently is, to hide from that patrolling Mech, but that will end up splitting up the group, which could screw us over if the Wyvern survives and calls for reinforcements. Your call.
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Oct 26, 2017 15:57
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Ewar can only do so much against guidance systems (at least in our era), and 1950s artillery is miles more accurate than battlemech weapons.Defiance Industries posted:Also they're trying to fire weapons from a zillion places on the mech at once. Let's say you want to alpha strike in the coolest mech there is, the Hauptmann. Imagine trying to aim laser pointers on your right shoulder, the top and bottoms of your hands, both of your nipples and your mouth at the same point. Great point, but viewing it like that strengthens the image that Battlemech don't have basic working electronics. (Maybe that's the case with the -1 for a Targeting Computer (should be more like a -4!  ). On the other hand there's properly synchronized fire, but that ought to be simpler.)Anyway, realism would ruin a fun particular style. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Oct 26, 2017 |
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Oct 26, 2017 15:58
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Defiance Industries posted:Turns out it was this guy I did that on purpose to encourage using the risky mace instead of kicking.
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Oct 26, 2017 16:00
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I cannot wait for :battletech: to happen to PTN's 2/2 Wyvern pilot.anakha posted:You can also turn right and take the road going from 1132 to 1430, or left going to where the Mongoose currently is, to hide from that patrolling Mech, but that will end up splitting up the group, which could screw us over if the Wyvern survives and calls for reinforcements. Your call.
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Oct 26, 2017 16:19
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The Wyvern isn't a 2/2.
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Oct 26, 2017 16:44
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I cannot wait for :battletech: to happen to PTN's 2/2 Wyvern pilot. Depends on where in the map they show up. I'm suspecting either end of the main road would be the likely starting point for the reinforcements. If they happen to show up on the left side of the map, they could cut off any members of Goonlance that are on the left side of the map and haven't reached the main road.
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Oct 26, 2017 17:42
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Does the Ironhold Star camping the objective count as reinforcements?
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Oct 26, 2017 18:00
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PoptartsNinja posted:The Wyvern isn't a 2/2. 
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Oct 26, 2017 18:16
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anakha posted:If you engage MASC and get to 1126, I think 0823 blocks LOS from 0723 to that hex. I'm hesitant to use MASC in this case, as failure means I don't get shots on the Wyvern. The Hitman crossing that street to get to short range may warrant a spot check anyways, so I'd rather just assume he's gonna spot us and position in a decent spot with both my Mechs.
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Oct 26, 2017 19:44
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Capskye posted:I'm hesitant to use MASC in this case, as failure means I don't get shots on the Wyvern. The Hitman crossing that street to get to short range may warrant a spot check anyways, so I'd rather just assume he's gonna spot us and position in a decent spot with both my Mechs. You don't need to worry about the patroller in 0918 spotting your hitman advancing this turn. It's already moved, so if you go to 0925, you'll still be out of it's LoS on the following turn when it advances again. The Mongoose does need to use MASC if you want to avoid instant spotting and still get in to range to shoot though- 0926 is a 50/50 LoS check, so you might be able to get away with that. Advancing one further hex puts you definitely out of LoS from the patroller, but puts you inside 3 hexes of the Wyvern so it will be able to fire all weapons at you. That said, it needs 9s to hit (2 base + 3 jumped + 4 you moved 13 hexes) which is not superb odds, and the only hole puncher it has is the single ERLL.
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Oct 26, 2017 20:16
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Fail a MASC roll and getting spotted will be the least of your worries. That said, I think it’s worth it to get more/better shots on the Wyvern.
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Oct 26, 2017 21:03
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Yea, goons have had some exceptionally good luck so far, but it's going to take more luck like that to put the Wyvern down this turn considering which 'Mechs are able to hit it this turn.
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Oct 26, 2017 21:09
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goonlance has this in the bag, nbd
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Oct 27, 2017 02:24
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Viva Miriya posted:goonlance has this in the bag, nbd If you think these are the only forces PTN has available in this mission I gotta ask what thread you have been reading?
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Oct 27, 2017 03:48
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Out of curiosity, does TAG hit location matter? Like if the Hitman plops it on that Wyvern's head, will the LRMs make the face more pockmarked than surface of the moon?
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Oct 27, 2017 04:41
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Nope, it makes no difference at all. It either hits it doesn't.
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Oct 27, 2017 04:43
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Lemniscate Blue posted:If you think these are the only forces PTN has available in this mission I gotta ask what thread you have been reading? Yeah but they're clanners.
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Oct 27, 2017 13:40
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MJ12 posted:That's a Mechwarrior conceit. SRMs and LRMs are both guided (this is why SRMs can use Artemis IV, and have/had Dumbfire ammo). MRM and Rocket Launchers are the only missile system which isn't guided. The Streak difference is that Streak missile targeting systems are really, really good, and the weapon is designed so that it doesn't fire unless it 'knows' from the targeting telemetry that the missile will hit. MRMs being unguided is super odd (short range are guided, medium range aren't?). I really like the Living Legends version of them, where they're wire-guided/crosshair following packs instead of completely unguided - they managed to find interesting quirks for almost all the weapons, except the ArrowIV. That one is just a big ol LRM pile in one box instead of a swarm of small ones. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Oct 27, 2017 |
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Oct 27, 2017 15:45
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DatonKallandor posted:MRMs being unguided is super odd (short range are guided, medium range aren't?). I really like the Living Legends version of them, where they're wire-guided/crosshair following packs instead of completely unguided - they managed to find interesting quirks for almost all the weapons, except the ArrowIV. That one is just a big ol LRM pile in one box instead of a swarm of small ones. MRMs are basically LRMs with the guidance package removed as a cost saving feature and to cram more per launcher. They came out well into the Clan Invasion when the Combine was starting to go broke.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:02
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And MRMs seemed to be doomed to be crap in Mechwarrior games. Ammo hungry and damage spreading, just the way we like our weapons.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:05
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How do I declare an indirect LRM strike? Does someone before me in the combat phase have to say they're transmitting targeting data on an enemy mech?
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Oct 27, 2017 22:09
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Zaodai posted:And MRMs seemed to be doomed to be crap in Mechwarrior games. Ammo hungry and damage spreading, just the way we like our weapons. They were decent in Living Legends. The wire-guided nature of them meant they were somewhat more reliable and longer-ranged than non-streak SRMs, and if you were cagey about your spacing you could get them to mostly converge on a single hit location.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:16
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A good poster posted:How do I declare an indirect LRM strike? Does someone before me in the combat phase have to say they're transmitting targeting data on an enemy mech? Someone has to spot a target (They don't have to say they're spotting for you specifically, just that they're spotting the Wyvern for indirect fire), then you can just say "Fire my LRMs at the Wyvern using indirect fire" On your part, the most important thing for making it count is just minimizing any penalties to hit, since there are a bunch of extra modifiers for indirect fire. I think your best bet is walking to 2028. This puts you at short range but outside min range with only a +1 move mod. So you'd be looking at 3 base + 1 your movement + 1 indirect fire + 2 enemy movement + 1 for the Hitman's movement (If it walks) = 8 If the Hitman's TAG doesn't connect and it fires the rest of it's weapons, then you'll have an additional +1 to hit as well (The Hitman will also suffer an extra +1 to hit with it's attacks as well.) TAG gets rid of these penalties though, which is why you're really lucky to have the Hitman in ideal position to walk up and TAG the Wyvern for you and the Bandersnatch. If the Bandersnatch moves to 1531, then it will have the same "Needs 8 to hit" number you have, which is really quite good in the scheme of indirect fire attacks. If the Hitman takes 0925 then it should only need a 4 to connect with the TAG, as well.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:23
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Lemniscate Blue posted:If you think these are the only forces PTN has available in this mission I gotta ask what thread you have been reading? The one without Courvalent in the mission.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:28
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Tarezax posted:They were decent in Living Legends. The wire-guided nature of them meant they were somewhat more reliable and longer-ranged than non-streak SRMs, and if you were cagey about your spacing you could get them to mostly converge on a single hit location. In fact they still are good in the current version of Living Legends. It's fairly easy to take down a medium or a light on your own in an MRM Catapult.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:48
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OptimusShr posted:In fact they still are good in the current version of Living Legends. It's fairly easy to take down a medium or a light on your own in an MRM Catapult. Wait living legends still exists? Nice.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:49
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Viva Miriya posted:Wait living legends still exists? Nice. Yeah and it is updating as well, on 0.9.0 now. And you don't need to bur Crysis Wars anymore since it uses the demo version! Join us goons! https://mechlivinglegends.net/
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Oct 27, 2017 22:53
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Viva Miriya posted:The one without Courvalent in the mission. Holy poo poo Mandozer get over it and stop being that guy in this thread.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:54
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