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The Democrats ran a poo poo candidate again and now the people who held their noses and voted for her are being blamed for failing Her Majesty.  If the Democrats lose even when we vote for them, why shouldn't we vote for someone else if they run a terrible candidate again? Shimrra Jamaane posted:This is such a great analogy that I hope you don't mind when I inevitably steal it one day. Wipe the adulatory drool off your chin, it's unbecoming.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:16
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Oh Snapple! posted:Why are leftists - and only leftists - expected to compromise? Why is the responsibility solely on them, when they've been swallowing this centrist dogshit for the last three decades because they were told they had to if they wanted to win? Aren’t you expecting centrists to compromise? Consider their perspective - they look at their two most left-wing candidates of the last fifty years (McGovern & Mondale) got utterly crushed. The things we fantasized happening to Trump actually happened to liberals in living memory. Now consider what started this conversation - wanting people to go to bat for a governor who can win in a state where the alternative is probably 0.7 on the Gilead scale. Perriello went for it, and he lost. But rather than unite behind the best candidate left, Perriello’s supporters speak like you speak, and they do nothing to further a candidate he’s enthusiastically supported and stumped for. He compromised. Does that make him less worthy of support? Is he wrong to do what he’s doing? All-or-Nothing is going to destroy this country for a century or more. The right wing has the ability to coalesce behind anything, and look where we are today, and where we’ll be tomorrow. What you’re advocating gives your cause less power, not more. And from my angle (Labor, organizing, so on), without unification for a common cause, you are hosed. So yes. Someone has to stop being proud. It’s like that stupid argument you have with your best friend that could ruin everything. Without compromise or forgiveness, you’re just out a friend. gently caress that. I could use a friend.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:17
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Wow skull dot gif thats pretty rude!
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Oct 27, 2017 02:18
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SKULL.GIF posted:The Democrats ran a poo poo candidate again Is your premise Obama was a "poo poo candidate"?
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Oct 27, 2017 02:18
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Oh gently caress you guys, seriously. The Republicans elected loving Trump and you idiots are still so obsessed with ideological purity that you'd rather let another loving right-wing white supremacist win an election than hold your loving nose for five goddamn minutes. And you wonder why the left can't win loving elections. Buddy, it's not the left who'd rather keep the very people who managed to lose to loving Trump in control within the party, and hence jeopardize every single election, than give up a single scrap of power.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:20
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I'm like 99% sure I've seen you make the exact opposite of this argument when someone tried to claim it was the candidates themselves who are getting more progressive. Well, if you can find the post, feel free to quote it. I'm pretty certain I've been making this argument for a long time, and never argued the opposite, though. quote:You're I'd say... ten, fifteen years tops from just voting straight R. Nothing tangible seems to matter to you, you just want to feel personally catered to. The Rs will make you very comfortable. You're a really mean-spirited person, and I feel sorry for you.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:21
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Your Boy Fancy posted:Aren’t you expecting centrists to compromise? Consider their perspective - they look at their two most left-wing candidates of the last fifty years (McGovern & Mondale) got utterly crushed. The things we fantasized happening to Trump actually happened to liberals in living memory. I'd rather lose trying to do the right thing than go belly up for the whims of global capital, sorry.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:24
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NewForumSoftware posted:I'd rather lose trying to do the right thing than go belly up for the whims of global capital, sorry. What are you doing to further those aims? Every time I ask this question, it goes unanswered.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:25
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Majorian posted:Well, if you can find the post, feel free to quote it. I'm pretty certain I've been making this argument for a long time, and never argued the opposite, though. Lmao. All you leftism experts surely know the concept of the "state monopoly on violence" yeah? If any of you pissbabies could endure listening to a woman or minority talk you might be aware of its corollary, the white male monopoly on anger. It's so easy to shock bubbleboys like you. Simply disagreeing with you is the most anti-social thing you armchair revolutionaries can fathom.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:27
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Your Boy Fancy posted:What are you doing to further those aims? How are things going on the ground in VA right now? That latest poll with Northam being down 8 has me a bit shaken though I do understand how it goes against the general trend. And that it has 27% "undecided" which polls usually try to work and avoid in their methodology.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:28
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Rest in peace comrade newforumsoftwhere, another martyr of the mods' anti-leftist agenda 💀
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Oct 27, 2017 02:29
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Lmao. All you leftism experts surely know the concept of the "state monopoly on violence" yeah? If any of you pissbabies could endure listening to a woman or minority talk Hey, judgmental shithead? I work for a charity that gives free eye surgeries and vision care to underserved people, both here in the U.S. and worldwide, and most of the people we serve are not white. I just came back from Peru, where I assisted in a free clinic for two weeks. One of the people I work most frequently with is a doctor in Namibia who was literally a refugee from apartheid. Don't go making assumptions about people you don't know.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:29
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Lmao. All you leftism experts surely know the concept of the "state monopoly on violence" yeah? If any of you pissbabies could endure listening to a woman or minority talk you might be aware of its corollary, the white male monopoly on anger. It's so easy to shock bubbleboys like you. Simply disagreeing with you is the most anti-social thing you armchair revolutionaries can fathom. Majorian has been one of the most kind and understanding and level headed posters on here, to accuse him of being a closet Republican is actually really lovely on your part. And to be fair, you have a point that there exists a lot of unexamined sexism/racism on the left, but there exists a lot of unexamined sexism/racism everywhere and to blame the left as being uniquely awful in that regard is unfair.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:30
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:How are things going on the ground in VA right now? That latest poll with Northam being down 8 has me a bit shaken though I do understand how it goes against the general trend. And that it has 27% "undecided" which polls usually try to work and avoid in their methodology. Piggybacking on this, what are your talking points when you knock on doors? I'm jealous that you're mostly reaching out to friendlies. I did GOTV in central cali for the presidential election and it was... rough.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:30
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Calibanibal posted:Rest in peace comrade newforumsoftwhere, another martyr of the mods' anti-leftist agenda 💀 Huh, didn't really think that'd be the post he'd get a weekly for. lol at picking fights with loving Majorian of all people.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:31
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Majorian posted:Hey, judgmental shithead? I work for a charity that gives free eye surgeries and vision care to underserved people, both here in the U.S. and worldwide, and most of the people we serve are not white. I just came back from Peru, where I assisted in a free clinic for two weeks. One of the people I work most frequently with is a doctor in Namibia who was literally a refugee from apartheid. Don't go making assumptions about people you don't know. You first, fuckboy.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:31
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You first, fuckboy. I'm not making any assumptions about you. I just know that what you're saying about me isn't fair, and I'm calling you out on it.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:33
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:How are things going on the ground in VA right now? That latest poll with Northam being down 8 has me a bit shaken though I do understand how it goes against the general trend. And that it has 27% "undecided" which polls usually try to work and avoid in their methodology. That poll is trash, honestly. The internal polling is good, and a lot of it comes down to turnout. The NoVA Machine is a turnout king, because without it, things go south. The north carried Hillary, and the North has been pissed since last year. This is our first chance to vote since then, and people are red hot for it. It’ll be close, but i expect the statewide GOP losing streak to go up to ten.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:33
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Your Boy Fancy posted:Aren’t you expecting centrists to compromise? Consider their perspective - they look at their two most left-wing candidates of the last fifty years (McGovern & Mondale) got utterly crushed. The things we fantasized happening to Trump actually happened to liberals in living memory. Nobody was going to win against Nixon in 72' absent some fantastic poo poo happening and in any case the Dem right wing literally stabbed McGovern in the back, and Mondale was running on the centrist script as a candidate, which was the same one that Carter, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry and Hillary lost on. So forgive me if the left treats this here claim with some scepticism.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:34
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Your Boy Fancy posted:That poll is trash, honestly. The internal polling is good, and a lot of it comes down to turnout. The NoVA Machine is a turnout king, because without it, things go south. The north carried Hillary, and the North has been pissed since last year. This is our first chance to vote since then, and people are red hot for it. Even that weird poll had the current governor at 55% (off the top of my head) approval so that definitely bodes well.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:34
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Majorian posted:I'm not making any assumptions about you. I just know that what you're saying about me isn't fair, and I'm calling you out on it. I love how every time one of you gets called out you wanna act like time only started running five minutes ago. I'm familiar with your repertoire, Marj.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:35
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Your Boy Fancy posted:That poll is trash, honestly. The internal polling is good, and a lot of it comes down to turnout. The NoVA Machine is a turnout king, because without it, things go south. The north carried Hillary, and the North has been pissed since last year. This is our first chance to vote since then, and people are red hot for it. And hey, I wanted to say that I'm actually extremely inspired by your posts and actions, but the reason I don't talk about it is because I don't live in VA and frankly I don't have anything to contribute other than "Keep up the good work." I'm sorry if you think that people are making GBS threads on you for the act of actually doing stuff, but honestly I don't think that's what's happening. There's a huge fight going on for the soul of the Democratic party right now and a lot of people are getting swept up in it, often unfairly. The leftist/centrist divide needs to be fundamentally addressed at some point, putting it off forever or just purging the leftists is not going to work.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:35
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Your Boy Fancy posted:What are you doing to further those aims? Not everybody has the time or resources to go canvassing or phonebanking. For many people, supporting the candidates that most align with their ideals is the best they can do. Because free time with which to engage in political activism is a luxury that not everybody has the privilege to have.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:38
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Majorian you made very specific assumptions about the meanness of tiny bronto's spirit. I saw it Not even I can analysis a spirit over the internet.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:38
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I love how every time one of you gets called out you wanna act like time only started running five minutes ago. I'm familiar with your repertoire, Marj. For the love of God quit being vague and just specifically accuse him of whatever you wish to accuse him of
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Oct 27, 2017 02:39
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I love how every time one of you gets called out you wanna act like time only started running five minutes ago. I'm familiar with your repertoire, Marj. What is my repertoire, in your mind? Because I've stood up for you on more than one occasion, and I'm usually pretty nice to people in general. Are you sure you're not just lumping me in with people like NFS? Calibanibal posted:Majorian you made very specific assumptions about the meanness of tiny bronto's spirit. I saw it How dare you question my ability to read internet auras.  e: WampaLord posted:Majorian has been one of the most kind and understanding and level headed posters on here, to accuse him of being a closet Republican is actually really lovely on your part. Hey thanks, that means a lot to me. You're pretty awesome yourself. 
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Oct 27, 2017 02:40
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Piggybacking on this, what are your talking points when you knock on doors? I'm jealous that you're mostly reaching out to friendlies. I did GOTV in central cali for the presidential election and it was... rough. Pretty standard stuff for our state. Expand Medicare, better jobs, more education cash, ease traffic congestion. #1 question I’ve gotten is on statues, which goes okay since nobody’s advocating throwing them in a dumpster. Thing is, VA is schizoid. The north is full of jobs, good money, immigration, defense contracts, and drat near unaffordable housing. From there, outside the southeast and Richmond, stuff gets dicey quick. The panhandle is completely desolate, and neither party is doing a drat thing for them except maintaining the roads so they can escape to better lands. So you can tell people that the state is doing well, and on aggregate it is. But beyond NoVA, there’s zero indication of it. So they vote with their ancestors and hope that business is coming, and business never does.
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Oct 27, 2017 02:41
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Your Boy Fancy do you have any suggestions for those who do not have time to go out and phonebank or go door to door?
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Oct 27, 2017 02:51
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unwantedplatypus posted:Not everybody has the time or resources to go canvassing or phonebanking. For many people, supporting the candidates that most align with their ideals is the best they can do. That’s why I push the Virtual Phone Bank in particular, since that’s one of those that people can do from home. I always tell people (and I’ll admit I learned this from BLM) that if they really are slammed for time, throw ten bucks at a candidate you love or a cause you prefer. And if you have neither time nor money, we can educate and tell people who have one or both where to go with it. I’m operating under the assumption that a good chunk of us can always contribute SOMETHING, even if it’s just a little education and encouragement. And encouragement, especially, is the biggest loving thing. Because everything matters. Someone saying “hey, you can make life suck less for somebody” can be the difference. WampaLord posted:And hey, I wanted to say that I'm actually extremely inspired by your posts and actions, but the reason I don't talk about it is because I don't live in VA and frankly I don't have anything to contribute other than "Keep up the good work." It seems less that they’re making GBS threads on me as a person and more on the idea of the system possibly helping them in any way. And that’s why I got hot in the first place. Like, in my perfect world, DSA forms the analogue to the Corbyn style Labour Party here, giving voice to the people who are trying desperately just to get by. But I also have to march with the army I have, not the army I wish I had. We beat back right-to-work from the state constitution, but it’s still a law that’s currently unassailable legislatively. The wins we get aren’t Full Communism Now, but they keep us in the game for a day when we can get there. And the next generation of incredible people, centrist and Center-Left and leftist alike, are running TODAY. I keep asking what people are doing today, because today is all I’ve got. The soul of the Democratic Party might be salvageable, and if it isn’t, then DSA will swallow it whole. I believe this. The day is coming. And someone is going to have to stand up to the other - whether it’s the stale folks in power or the young insurgents on the street - and say “I have a plan, and if you come with me, we can both do better.” Failing that, I hope we abide by the will of the majority. theCalamity posted:Your Boy Fancy do you have any suggestions for those who do not have time to go out and phonebank or go door to door? Mail a box of tea to your local Labor Fed I guess. I could use something when the coffee wears off. 
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Oct 27, 2017 02:56
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Your Boy Fancy posted:Thing is, VA is schizoid. The north is full of jobs, good money, immigration, defense contracts, and drat near unaffordable housing. From there, outside the southeast and Richmond, stuff gets dicey quick. The panhandle is completely desolate, and neither party is doing a drat thing for them except maintaining the roads so they can escape to better lands. So you can tell people that the state is doing well, and on aggregate it is. But beyond NoVA, there’s zero indication of it. So they vote with their ancestors and hope that business is coming, and business never does. Is there any way the Dems could appeal to these people without succumbing to "gently caress identity politics" horseshit? Is anyone pushing to try and offer them something?
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Oct 27, 2017 03:02
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Your Boy Fancy posted:It seems less that they’re making GBS threads on me as a person and more on the idea of the system possibly helping them in any way. And that’s why I got hot in the first place. Like, in my perfect world, DSA forms the analogue to the Corbyn style Labour Party here, giving voice to the people who are trying desperately just to get by. But I also have to march with the army I have, not the army I wish I had. We beat back right-to-work from the state constitution, but it’s still a law that’s currently unassailable legislatively. The wins we get aren’t Full Communism Now, but they keep us in the game for a day when we can get there. And the next generation of incredible people, centrist and Center-Left and leftist alike, are running TODAY. I keep asking what people are doing today, because today is all I’ve got. I think most of the leftists here (including me) are on the same page with you on this one, for the record. NFS and white sauce are outliers, so don't think they speak for the rest of us.
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Oct 27, 2017 03:02
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I think you're a swell guy who's doing one of the better things possible for someone in your position, YBF. Of course that's basically just jumping onto the same bandwagon as a bunch of other jagoffs in this thread without going so far as to express anything resembling my own political beliefs, so here's something from Bill Clinton. https://twitter.com/NYTnickc/status/922950757380435969  I hate BIll Clinton.
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Oct 27, 2017 03:04
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Office Pig posted:https://twitter.com/NYTnickc/status/922950757380435969 If you substitute "everybody" for "the average voter" and assume an immense amount of cynicism this is a fair assessment imo.
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Oct 27, 2017 03:05
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Lightning Knight posted:Is there any way the Dems could appeal to these people without succumbing to "gently caress identity politics" horseshit? Is anyone pushing to try and offer them something? Honestly? As much as I hate their labor practices, dropping Amazon outside of Blacksburg would revitalize the Southwest. The trouble comes back to guns a lot of the time - VA loves hunting, though I will say I met a guy in the woods a few weeks ago, right after Vegas, who said “you know, I usually vote straight NRA, but that’s for deer hunting, man. Ain’t nobody need a machine gun to hunt deer. And if you do...shoot, man.” What we need are jobs in the south. There’s plenty of people ready to work, and there’s just nothing there. McAulliffe did his level best to attract any and all business to VA, and he shocked the hell out of us all by being just a god-tier ambassador of good poo poo around here. Put an auto plant in Dublin or Pulaski, and it’ll change the world.
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Oct 27, 2017 03:10
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Your Boy Fancy posted:Honestly? As much as I hate their labor practices, dropping Amazon outside of Blacksburg would revitalize the Southwest. The trouble comes back to guns a lot of the time - VA loves hunting, though I will say I met a guy in the woods a few weeks ago, right after Vegas, who said “you know, I usually vote straight NRA, but that’s for deer hunting, man. Ain’t nobody need a machine gun to hunt deer. And if you do...shoot, man.” That's a really lovely position to be in, but a familiar story to me unfortunately.  I take it there's no way to get any kind of business development in the near term without offering lovely concessions?
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Oct 27, 2017 03:11
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I'm like 99% sure I've seen you make the exact opposite of this argument when someone tried to claim it was the candidates themselves who are getting more progressive. Actually, Slashie, Majorian has moved decidedly left during his years on D&D. I'd say you're way further on the scale to becoming a Republican (stanning for pols who covet war criminals' endorsements; ignoring the real effects on women of neoliberalism) than he is.
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Oct 27, 2017 03:12
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Willa Rogers posted:Actually, Slashie, Majorian has moved decidedly left during his years on D&D. I'd say you're way further on the scale to becoming a Republican (stanning for pols who covet war criminals' endorsements; ignoring the real effects on women of neoliberalism) than he is. I never thought I'd live to see the day where you said this about me. 
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Oct 27, 2017 03:14
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Lightning Knight posted:That's a really lovely position to be in, but a familiar story to me unfortunately. I mean, taxes are pretty low already. It’s just having a desire to put your money in a good state, but in a land without hope instead of one of the top-ten richest counties in the United States (I think we have three of them!).
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Oct 27, 2017 03:15
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Lmao. All you leftism experts surely know the concept of the "state monopoly on violence" yeah? If any of you pissbabies could endure listening to a woman or minority talk you might be aware of its corollary, the white male monopoly on anger. It's so easy to shock bubbleboys like you. Simply disagreeing with you is the most anti-social thing you armchair revolutionaries can fathom. No; women who've borne the brunt of your acid-tongued psychotic whiplash pity you just as much as the men, trust me.
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Oct 27, 2017 03:15
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Your Boy Fancy posted:That’s why I push the Virtual Phone Bank in particular, since that’s one of those that people can do from home. I always tell people (and I’ll admit I learned this from BLM) that if they really are slammed for time, throw ten bucks at a candidate you love or a cause you prefer. And if you have neither time nor money, we can educate and tell people who have one or both where to go with it. Thanks for the info. I think I’m going to join my local DSA as well. I got tired of the Dems in my state (TX) not doing anything for the poor and black people, at least not that I could find. It’s been mostly anti-trump stuff. Finally went to a BLM meeting too. It was great.
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Oct 27, 2017 03:15
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