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JHVH-1 posted:who have technology knowledge but don't understand humans. I think this sufficiently explains Sony engineers of terrestrial origin.
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Oct 26, 2017 15:44
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DJExile posted:there is no way what you're asking for wouldn't also be huge. Huge like the same size as the 12-100 f4? I can't see it being bigger. I'll admit the technical stuff is beyond me, but it should be possible to build something like 17-75 f2.8 into a lens body somewhere between the size of the 12-60 f2.8-4 and the 12-100 f4. Even if you had to make it variable aperture f2.8-f4, that would be an ok compromise to get that range.
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Oct 26, 2017 18:35
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blowfish posted:That's dumb as gently caress, Sony isn't exactly a premium brand image wise. Nobody buys Sony over Canon/Nikon just to flash the logo at people like rich hipsters do with Leica, they buy Sony because the camera bodies have good sensors and no mirror at a low weight. If they want to be Smug Assholes: The Camera Co. they should make artisanal special edition $15000 cameras in numbered production runs under 100, otherwise they're basically Fuji with bigger sensors. And you're definitely right about hipsters adopting Leica and stuff as their brand of choice. But something else is also happening- people aren't drooling over full-frame bodies like they used to. And people are adapting vintage glass and being perfectly happy with it. M43 is kicking all sorts of rear end. poo poo, even high-end smartphones have great cameras. Which is why Sony FE lenses/full frame bodies overpricing is even more ridiculous since full frame isn't king, anymore. Sony's neglect of APS-C bodies is also getting annoying. A lot of Sony shooters feel like Sony just isn't listening to their customer base. Sure, Sony's got nice sensors. But sensors aren't the be-all-end-all of a good camera. Their lens lineup is limited, customer service is non-existent, Sony app store is garbage, they lag in colour technology, and Sony camera menus are still hell. But in either case, after being a Sony shooter for about 7 years and having done professional shoots with most of the other brands, I just feel like Sony doesn't offer anything remarkably special that justifies their "premium" pricing. Heck, a lot of professionals that I work with adapt more vintage class and EF mount to their Sony than they buy actually Sony glass. Based on what I've seen, Sony seems to appeal mostly to the pixel-peepers and people who obsess over DxOMark Scores. Don't get me wrong- Sony gear is great. But their pricing is just silly. [/vent over. Sorry.] melon cat fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Oct 26, 2017 |
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Oct 26, 2017 19:50
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Whether full frame is king or not, that's why you're paying a premium. Look at equivalent camera and lens pricing from Canon and Nikon. FF glass, sensors, whatever are more expensive to manufacture. Look at even the new "cheap" medium format stuff too. I think you're underestimating how much people are attracted to Sony's full frame camera specs. 10fps at 42mp is no joke. Personally, I don't like Sony bodies that much and sold my A7s a month after buying it, but they've sold a lot of those FF bodies.
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Oct 26, 2017 20:41
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powderific posted:Whether full frame is king or not, that's why you're paying a premium. Look at equivalent camera and lens pricing from Canon and Nikon. FF glass, sensors, whatever are more expensive to manufacture. Look at even the new "cheap" medium format stuff too. melon cat fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Oct 26, 2017 |
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Oct 26, 2017 20:57
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Sony has big numbers so it must be better. More megapickles, more money.
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Oct 26, 2017 20:57
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blowfish posted:That's dumb as gently caress, Sony isn't exactly a premium brand image wise. Nobody buys Sony over Canon/Nikon just to flash the logo at people like rich hipsters do with Leica, they buy Sony because the camera bodies have good sensors and no mirror at a low weight. If they want to be Smug Assholes: The Camera Co. they should make artisanal special edition $15000 cameras in numbered production runs under 100, otherwise they're basically Fuji with bigger sensors. Well, Sony didn’t but it is a Sony camera on the inside. https://petapixel.com/2012/09/18/hasselblad-lunar-is-a-rebranded-sony-nex-7-with-5000-of-luxury/ Edit: all of these things that you guys are talking about is what drove me from Sony to Canon and then Fuji. Their lens selection for APS-C was a joke, if you wanted to get into full frame then be prepared to open your wallet, if you want to use their menu system then open your butthole with the addition of, at least when I was using their mirrorless cameras, too many camera bodies too quickly without fixing what was wrong on current bodies. rio fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Oct 26, 2017 |
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Oct 26, 2017 20:57
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I have Oly 17, 30 and 45 primes. Would it be worth it to trade them in for the 12-40? I might keep the 17 and trade the 30 and 45. Decisions!
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Oct 27, 2017 01:49
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I'd keep the 45, the 12-40 is reportedly a bit blurrier at the long end and it's such a fantastic lens
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Oct 27, 2017 03:16
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Absolutely keep the 45. it's fast as hell. The 12-40 will give you weather sealing if you need/want it, and I've liked it as a basic walk-around.
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Oct 27, 2017 03:26
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I want to see the Venn diagram of Sony camera owners and BMW owners. Recommend me a m43 macro lens. Is my best option the Olympus 60mm? Side note: Ever since I got this 25mm 1.7 the 12-60 has rarely ever been on my camera.
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Oct 27, 2017 04:18
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GEMorris posted:I want to see the Venn diagram of Sony camera owners and BMW owners. Only one photographer I know shoots Sony mirrorless and he uses two a6000 bodies, one missed to shoot infrared which is totally rad and the other normal. He is very good, has pretty good justifications for using that system and it works for him (and drives some normal car). An adult student of mine has a NEX that he uses as a point and shoot and a friend of mine does the same and they are the BMW types. The others, who I have only met and don’t know, have been younger wedding photographers (20s/30s) who shoot full frame and seemed pretty normal and not rich. I think that is the Sony user base - guys who know what they are doing and choose Sony, people who don’t know what they are doing but are rich and people who do know what they are doing and want full frame for work. I would actually be very interested to see some demographics about income levels and what camera systems they all use.
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Oct 27, 2017 05:16
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When I went to Banff and Jasper at the beginning of the month, I saw an even split between all sorts of Sony alphabet soup bodies I couldn't identify, and Canon Rebels with the kit 18-55.
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Oct 27, 2017 06:01
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A Sony a6000 is my digital camera. Bought to use all my old glass with... Then never used it for that purpose since I prefer to use my old glass on the cameras they were made for. Now I only use it for "scanning" film... With a vintage Pentax macro lens. Thinking about getting a proper native macro for but I'll have to check with my doctor first to see if I can afford to sell a kidney.
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Oct 27, 2017 11:52
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GEMorris posted:I want to see the Venn diagram of Sony camera owners and BMW owners. I have loved the 60mm, yeah. Great build and can do 1:1. They recently released a 30mm f/3.5 as well which seems nice, but I haven't seen a lot about it yet. The 60mm has been out for years and you should be able to find one used pretty easily.
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Oct 27, 2017 16:41
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I don't give a poo poo about sensor size in regards to quality or resomalution - I just want my old film lenses to have the same FoV when I adapt them. I like my 28mm to act like the 28mm I'm used to, thank you very much.
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Oct 27, 2017 16:44
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rio posted:The others, who I have only met and don’t know, have been younger wedding photographers (20s/30s) who shoot full frame and seemed pretty normal and not rich. I think that is the Sony user base - guys who know what they are doing and choose Sony, people who don’t know what they are doing but are rich and people who do know what they are doing and want full frame for work. Would also like to see some data like this. I have a sneaking suspicion that you're absolutely right, and it's mostly 20-30 year old guys due to the price factor and less family/house/mortgage/whatever financial things to deal with. Either they're independently wealthy through family, or they have decent real jobs and disposable income to use for justifying the hobby cost of FF Sony cameras. I'm sure some are shooting for a living, but I'm not sure what the professional market really uses these days, still Canon/Nikon is my guess. I know I'd personally be all over the new A7RIII if I could afford any lenses in addition to the body, but life has been poo poo for the past 8 years, so I switched to Fuji as a cost vs performance sorta thing, aside from wanting a smaller and lower weight setup. If life had been different, I might be in that demographic above, so I can see how others doing well, at my point in life, would have no trouble going that route. Why me 
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Oct 27, 2017 18:24
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I know this horse has been beaten to a pulp but the only reason I returned an Sony A7R II is that the UI (software AND physical, gently caress PASM dials) made me want to throw it against a wall. Nice files though. If shooting photos was my job I probably would have kept it, but then I would have moved to the Fuji GFX.
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Oct 27, 2017 18:32
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I own a Sony....PS4.
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Oct 27, 2017 19:36
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PASM dials...lol. I have no idea why anyone would put those on anything but entry level Rebels and poo poo like that when you could put an actually useful dial on there. Actually, why don’t brands other then Fuji put on external control dials? That was my first draw to Fuji back when I got the original X100 and that camera was the one that got me to sell all my Canon gear to go completely over to Fuji.
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Oct 27, 2017 19:41
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This is probably a controversial opinion but I think the control layout on modern DSLRs is better than the fuji's retro dials if you're moving fast. In my local photo community I mostly know other professional or semi-pro photographers and only know a couple purely recreational photographer in real life. The stills focused people are a mix of Canon, Nikon, and Sony FF weighted more towards Canon and Nikon, while the more video focused folks are weighted more towards Sony. Any other systems I only know one or two outliers. One guy has a GH5 (but he's mostly a sound guy), another dude is rocking Alpha mount stuff, and then there's a guy who's mostly on phase one MF stuff. Most of the professional folks I know dabbling in mirrorless seem to go with the Sony FF if it's going to be a work camera and Fuji if it's a personal/fun camera. I've tried Panasonic, Sony, and Fuji but wound up back with Nikon. Most recently I had an XT20 but wound up preferring to just keep shooting with my GR or full size DSLR so I sold it. Really all I want is for Ricoh to come out with a new GR 
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Oct 27, 2017 21:52
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powderific posted:This is probably a controversial opinion but I think the control layout on modern DSLRs is better than the fuji's retro dials if you're moving fast. Care to expand on this? what about the fuji control schema is slower than DSLR's? I mean, it's true basically everywhere that Canon & Nikon own the lion's share of the market amongst professionals, but a ton of that is attributable directly to familiarity and people being invested in a platform already and not being able to afford to just switch over. I shoot Fuji professionally and it works just great for the types of things I shoot. That being said I also recognize that DSLR's are still better for many applications, sports/action photography being a prime example. Honestly I think Sony probably gets chosen for larger files/canvas size than it does for FF. For studio & product photography larger file sizes can be a big advantage when retouching. For what I do it just means longer transfer times and there is very little up-side. Full frame doesn't mean anything to me so long as I can get lenses that are high quality and get me a wide enough FOV. They each have their advantages and disadvantages but I don't think Fuji's offerings are any "less professional" than any of the other major brands unless you're talking specific use-cases.
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Oct 27, 2017 22:09
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Sure, I'll try to give my usage examples to explain but I'm not sure if it'd actually gonna sound easier. To me the Fuji method is like having a PSAM but takes a bit longer to get between the modes. Usually I have my Nikon setup in aperture priority, with the rear dial set to adjust exposure compensation, and then semi-frequently flip it into manual mode and use the rear dial adjust shutter speed. I also tend to switch between auto/manual ISO and what base ISO the auto is running at on occasion. To switch between the modes on the D800/D850 here's what I do: press mode button, click control wheel over to M or A. It keeps whatever shutter/aperture setting I had set last time I was in that mode. For Fuji I need to scroll through the full shutter speed wheel to my desired speed every time I want to change between aperture priority and manual. Same thing for switching between auto and fixed ISO—you have to scroll through the whole wheel to get to it vs. just one click over on a control dial. And to me it seems like you wind up having to pull your hands/eyes out of shooting position more often as well. I'm sure you get used to it and they do have the front/back dials that function similarly to Nikon, but it feels to me like the shutter/ISO/EV controls on the outside don't offer much benefit other than looking/feeling nice. Definitely don't mean to imply that Fuji or other mirrorless can't be used professionally. Other than the mentioned difficult switching systems, part of the reason I don't see as many people using Fuji/M4/3 a much is that I'm mostly video and in that world lenses for Sony E, Canon EF, and Nikon F mounts can all go on bigger cameras, while 1st party lenses for Fuji or micro 4/3s don't have that option (outside the AF100 I suppose.)
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Oct 27, 2017 23:14
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I can see your point. I am so used to Fuji that I can make any adjustments as quickly as I could on my 5D without looking at the knobs but with the dslr style layout those functions are closer to your thumbs. Just having aperture rings is a big enough deal for me though to go all Fuji, and the other knobs are intuitive since I spent more time on manual film cameras before getting into digital. Professionally I have never felt slowed down in any significant way and there is basically no going back to any other way now because I like having my knobs and aperture rings - i shoot with the cheap 50-230 lens a lot because it is long, light and impressively sharp for a lens that cost 200 bucks but that lack of an aperture ring bugs the poo poo out of me.
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Oct 27, 2017 23:36
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At my dayjob I use a canon DSLR and it's okay and I regularly test other DSLRs (and hoards of old SLRs) every single model has some control that's a compromise in my opinion.Canon can't figure out how to make on/off switches that you can reach with one hand, Nikon's loving AF mode switch is criminal, Pentax adds extra button functions that literally do nothing, Sony A series bodies aren't built for adult hands, and Olympus 4/3rds (the OG ones) have a perplexing exp comp scheme. I mean you should use what you like and Fuji is very good at catering to a specific type of customer.
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Oct 28, 2017 05:48
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Eh you can always shoot canon lenses on Sony if you find the sony lens too expensive  The canon 16-35 III and 35 1.4 II is amazing on the sony a7r2, while other fast canon primes like the 85 1.2 II and 135 f2 are also all working well or even better than being mounted on a 5d3/5d4 due to eye focus.
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Oct 28, 2017 09:37
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If I shoot wide angle I would choose from Nikon and Fuji, based on how many wide angle options they have and how early they release wide lens in their lens roadmap.rio posted:PASM dials...lol. I have no idea why anyone would put those on anything but entry level Rebels and poo poo like that when you could put an actually useful dial on there. Actually, why don’t brands other then Fuji put on external control dials? That was my first draw to Fuji back when I got the original X100 and that camera was the one that got me to sell all my Canon gear to go completely over to Fuji. Well if you shoot Shutter Priority (say slowest handheld speed) and Aperture Priority (say wide open) and go back and fore between them, it's faster with a PASM dial. That's the only time I find PASM dial useful. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Oct 28, 2017 |
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Oct 28, 2017 14:41
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rio posted:PASM dials...lol. I have no idea why anyone would put those on anything but entry level Rebels and poo poo like that when you could put an actually useful dial on there. Actually, why don’t brands other then Fuji put on external control dials? That was my first draw to Fuji back when I got the original X100 and that camera was the one that got me to sell all my Canon gear to go completely over to Fuji. You could use big chunky dials on the top of the camera like Fuji, or thumb and finger wheels that do the same thing. Thumb and finger wheels mean you don't have to take your hand off the grip or finger off the shutter to make adjustments. Actually I'm kind of curious how many Fuji users are left handed, and if their control scheme is better suited to lefties than putting all the controls on the right side. Also, do you make adjustments with your eye on the viewfinder, or pull the camera away to look at the dials?
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Oct 28, 2017 19:47
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Finger Prince posted:You could use big chunky dials on the top of the camera like Fuji, or thumb and finger wheels that do the same thing. Thumb and finger wheels mean you don't have to take your hand off the grip or finger off the shutter to make adjustments. Actually I'm kind of curious how many Fuji users are left handed, and if their control scheme is better suited to lefties than putting all the controls on the right side. Also, do you make adjustments with your eye on the viewfinder, or pull the camera away to look at the dials? Fuji cameras also have finger wheels. You can use that if you please. I personally just set my shutter speed, aperture, and ISO before I even power on the camera, and then use exposure compensation to fine tune when I am looking through the view finder.
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Oct 28, 2017 21:47
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I regularly use both by Fuji cameras without taking them from my face to adjust settings. On my xpro2 I can even review images, delete them, and change settings in a menu without taking the cam from my face.
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Oct 28, 2017 22:32
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Finger Prince posted:You could use big chunky dials on the top of the camera like Fuji, or thumb and finger wheels that do the same thing. Thumb and finger wheels mean you don't have to take your hand off the grip or finger off the shutter to make adjustments. Actually I'm kind of curious how many Fuji users are left handed, and if their control scheme is better suited to lefties than putting all the controls on the right side. Also, do you make adjustments with your eye on the viewfinder, or pull the camera away to look at the dials? I do the same where I can adjust the knobs while looking through the viewfinder but also set them before turning on the camera and use exposure compensation, adjusting aperture with the ring when I need to. I like the flexibility and I know it sounds dumb but I just really like to have those controls being external. It has been long enough that I have been shooting not only film that I don’t know if I can say it is because I liked the setup on manual film bodies anymore. I just really enjoy being able to see all of my settings on the camera and not on the screen - particularly when the camera is not even on.
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Oct 29, 2017 00:40
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Parents gave me back my ff Nikon 
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Oct 29, 2017 02:18
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rio posted:I do the same where I can adjust the knobs while looking through the viewfinder but also set them before turning on the camera and use exposure compensation, adjusting aperture with the ring when I need to. I like the flexibility and I know it sounds dumb but I just really like to have those controls being external. It has been long enough that I have been shooting not only film that I don’t know if I can say it is because I liked the setup on manual film bodies anymore. I just really enjoy being able to see all of my settings on the camera and not on the screen - particularly when the camera is not even on. Yeah, I'm in the same boat. There's something about the Fuji setup which just makes more sense to me. Having the EVF to provide instant response helps a lot but being able to quickly adjust things without pulling away speeds things up for me.
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Oct 30, 2017 02:36
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I've taken a long hard look at my likely use scenarios going forward, and rethought my budget before taking second look at the X-lens sale. I've read DPReview's take on the XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS, which is $100 CAD off and seems like a good complement to the 18-55 kit lens. It also nails having decent AF, an aperture ring and image stabilization, which are all important to me as a new parent and being relatively new to the hobby and spoiled by mirrorless QOL features. Any strong caveats against, besides the speed seeming just OK? Bear in mind I'm also going to be getting an add-on grip, to help with the weight/handling.
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Nov 1, 2017 18:47
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nice "i had sex" post  You want this as just a general all-around lens? Travel? If you want something to take nice pictures of the kid you're likely far better off with a fast prime than a slow-ish zoom. and congrats on the kid 
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Nov 1, 2017 19:01
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DJExile posted:nice "i had sex" post I'm thinking a bit ahead for recitals/plays and touristy/travel stuff but simply having the flexibility to swap on something with more reach is an attraction. It seems like a total dadly asset driven by utility rather than pure art. I think it would have some use in outdoor portraits though. I'm not expecting greatness for things like wildlife captures but it would be nice to have something that can take a swing at easy (but distant) subjects. I'd get a fast prime first but the 18-55 kit is treating me nicely enough and I haven't figured out my favorite focal length in that bracket to pull the trigger on anything. I'll admit I'm still drawn to the 35mm F2 WR which parked at a really solid retail price I could always grab at any time. Or I could wait/save up and get the 10-24 wide zoom to really round out my focal length portfolio, although it's a bit pricey at the moment even with the sale. I guess I wish I could borrow a given X prime to see the difference between it and the kit 18-55 but I don't have any access to lens rental in my neck of the woods (Eastern Canada). I'm just hitting that mental hurdle of what I could achieve with a fast prime compared to the same focal length (albeit slower) on the kit. ISO just isn't the motivating factor it used to be with these new mirrorless bodies. Whereas reach limitations, particularly in off-the-cuff situations, are always present and palpable and a variable zoom (as opposed to a prime) just inherently feels practical.
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Nov 1, 2017 19:29
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Can anyone recommend a M43 lens for a short trip to New Orleans? I've never been but I expect to want to capture street stuff, probably a lot at night, hand held. Right now I have the Pana 20mm f/1.7 but is there a much better choice for this?
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Nov 1, 2017 20:02
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Kenny Logins posted:Thanks, she's 4 months old at this point. The 18-55 is nice but the primes are in a different league. Another option is getting the 50-235. It is slow so not good inside but for that reach you won’t really be using it indoors in dark lighting. I don’t know how much it is now but when I got it on sale it was 200 bucks which is a great value considering how sharp it is. Autofocus is decent, it is really light (which is also one downside since it is plastic), no aperture ring unfortunately. If you were to find that lens for cheap it would give you long shooting options of that is what you want and also let you put money towards a prime, which to me is really where the X system shines because the primes are so good.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:10
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Honestly, it's really more like the Fuji XF zooms are really, really good. And the primes are spectacular. I think the only XF zoom Fuji has that makes sacrifices is the 18-135, but I'm not sure there are any lenses with a similar range that aren't mediocre-to-ok, regardless of lens manufacturer. Put it to you another way: I still use my 18-55 all the time, even for stuff that I demand high quality from.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:15
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Syrinxx posted:Can anyone recommend a M43 lens for a short trip to New Orleans? I've never been but I expect to want to capture street stuff, probably a lot at night, hand held. Right now I have the Pana 20mm f/1.7 but is there a much better choice for this? That's a pretty damned decent lens for it, so if you wind up only using that you'll be okay! What's your budget?
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Nov 1, 2017 20:49
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