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dennyk posted:Had one today that somehow spawned three Harpies all by itself, which is some serious bullshit. Only thing I can figure is that it was due to some Nekker Warrior fuckery; not sure how the game decides which harpy's counter is active in the deck, but it must have switched from one that was about to pop to one of the Warrior copies or something... Fortunately it was his last card in hand in a dead R2 and I won the game anyhow, because if I'd lost due to him dropping eight loving creatures on his board with one play, I'd have been a bit annoyed. it's always the harpy that's closest to the top of the deck.
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Oct 14, 2017 17:12
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botany posted:it's always the harpy that's closest to the top of the deck. Hmm, went back and looked at the game carefully from the beginning, and it appears the Nekker Warrior definitely moved the active counter. First round, he had one Harpy pop (1 tick on the next Harpy in the deck), then ate an egg with an Eki to make a Hatchling (2 ticks), then used a Nekker Warrior on his Harpy. Then he pulled Roach from Ge'els, which should have been the third tick, but no Harpy appeared. Then later that round he played an Archgriffin, and still no Harpy. Then he opened R2 with another Archgriffin and finally out comes a Harpy (1 tick on the next one). Then he played Yen for a Unicorn (2 ticks), then the first Wolf from WS was the third tick and pulled a Harpy, but then that Harpy immediately pulled a second. Then the second Harpy plus the last two Wolves pulled the last Harpy out. The Nekker Warrior must have caused the active counter to move to the topmost copy it created at the bottom of the deck.
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Oct 14, 2017 18:04
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It's because he had harpies in his hand that he mulliganed away between rounds. Nekker Warrior wouldn't have done that. edit: Did he play Frightener in R1? That could have drawn a partially triggered Harpy. Various Meat Products fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Oct 14, 2017 |
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Oct 14, 2017 19:11
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Nope, no Frightener and no other draw effects involved. Harpies in his hand during R1 wouldn't tick, and even if he drew a one-counter Harpy from the deck and then mulliganed it during the R2 draw, that would have been the Harpy that popped when he played his Archgriffin opener; all the others in the deck should still have had three ticks at that point. Plus, if the active counter hadn't changed cards in R1, then Roach would have pulled a second Harpy in that round. Has to be the Nekker Warrior effect changing the active Harpy counter from the one that had one tick left to another one with a full counter.
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Oct 14, 2017 19:48
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Huh. Maybe... if his second and third Harpy were already the last two cards in his deck then Nekker Warrior put the copies in front of them? That's weird.
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Oct 14, 2017 20:24
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nekker warrior is bugged and puts harpies in the deck with the counter at 1 or something iirc
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Oct 14, 2017 22:03
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Was struggling to climb above 4150, so I switched away from my weather and movement ST deck to a weird bamboozle Eredin deck that relied on card advantage and Ocvist to allow for a last round Succubus play. I went from like 4020 to 4150 again using that deck, then suddenly it stopped working because every motherfucker's final card was something to mess with it. Switched back to my ST deck, and got to 4250 this evening. Pretty stoked about that, though I think trying to push for GM would be pretty tough. Mostly faced Skellige on my way up. Very winnable matchup anytime they didn't get the nuts with Restore/Dorre/Sigrdrifa for third round. Anytime I encountered Nilfgaard they generally wiped the floor with me. Nilfgaard just has really good tools for generating a lot of value spread across plenty of units, and my deck runs Aglais, which is literally a 9 point gold against almost every single popular NG deck. I really hated playing against them because I knew exactly how it was going to go each time. If I got full value out of gold weather they could lose, but Vanhemar wasn't uncommon, unfortunately. Monsters almost never runs removal, so once I had two Hawker Smugglers on board, the round was mine pretty much by default. Sometimes they ran scorch or Morvudd, but it usually didn't matter. Northern Realms was pretty much absent - if I saw one, it was the weird machines control deck. Absurd tempo if they were running Henselt. Spell ST the only ST deck I would see, and it wasn't that common. Darke GBF fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 04:18
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Yeah, Aglais is terrible against NG but at least all the mulligan effects I have ensure she's never a completely dead draw. I tried that Eredin deck you mentioned because I wanted to use Succubus for something but I'm really not used to playing with Monsters cards and the harpies kept screwing up my mulligan. I'm assuming it's the same deck - the one with Old Speartip as well? Just checked the season rewards and I thought 21 was the level before GM but it's actually 20, which is where I ended up last time. Pretty much any front-page net deck should be able to make it to 20, right? I'm still enjoying my Francesca mulligan deck but I wonder what it would take to hit 21 this season. I'm guessing the meta at that level is all Dagon/SK Restore/NG Spies? Kalko fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Oct 15, 2017 |
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Oct 15, 2017 07:47
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Kalko posted:Yeah, Aglais is terrible against NG but at least all the mulligan effects I have ensure she's never a completely dead draw. I tried that Eredin deck you mentioned because I wanted to use Succubus for something but I'm really not used to playing with Monsters cards and the harpies kept screwing up my mulligan. I'm assuming it's the same deck - the one with Old Speartip as well? Yeah, the one with Speartip. It was cute but just as dependent on having Woodland Spirit for round one as any Dagon deck these days. Even if you had that, having Frightener and either Ocvist or ADC in hand was pretty much the only way to make it work. Not consistent. With enough games, 20 is definitely doable for the popular netdecks even playing them sub-optimally. Skellige just vomits value and carryover all over the board without any major counters. Above that, not sure. I might try to do some more games to see how far I get but I really hate the NG matchup. Maybe I'll tech in Scorch or something for them.
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Oct 15, 2017 08:42
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This Eredin deck has been treating me super well. It mulligans a little awkwardly - I'll often be stuck with Roach in my opening hand due to tossing frosts and harpies - but it manages to win a lot nonetheless. I switched to this from Spy NG due to its trouble with restore SK and it's been great. They only run Gremist for weather clear and there's no feeling like snatching a 10-point restored silver with gravekeeper. I've had the most trouble with reveal Nilfgaard of all things.
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Oct 16, 2017 15:46
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Are NG Spies players here playing any kind of anti-weather tech? I replaced Vanhemar with Auckes after being stuck for like two weeks at Rank 19 and I'm still having as many issues against Dagon as I was before the change.
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Oct 17, 2017 00:14
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Azran posted:Are NG Spies players here playing any kind of anti-weather tech? I replaced Vanhemar with Auckes after being stuck for like two weeks at Rank 19 and I'm still having as many issues against Dagon as I was before the change. The moment I cut Vanhemar I'll run into weather decks. I Just can't quit that idiot.
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Oct 17, 2017 00:18
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The Emhyr talk on the previous page has got me back to playing spies again, running with this mix. The first thing I noticed after playing so much Calveit is that it's harder to line up the Joachim/Nauzicaa Brigade combo because I can't be sure whether there are any silvers on top, but I wonder if that's just because I'm not thinning enough in R1. If your opening hand has two Emissaries and you can afford to mulligan one, should you? The best case scenario, of course, is that you play a single Emmisary and chain into the others (hopefully with a Brigade or Enforcer on the table) but I feel like I should probably have Ceallach in hand before mulling down to one. Also, I think I'll swap out one of my Enforcers for another Medic for consistency (basically Subvisual Haze's bronze package) because I do feel the difference in thinning compared to Calveit. My most common bounce target is Ceallach, he's just so versatile even if he only really has two options. Assire has been amazing (most recently returning a 17 point Djenge Frett in R3 the turn before he played Sigrdrifa) and I don't really like Vanhemar but I feel like I need some weather protection otherwise it eats me alive on long rounds. I'm 3900 now and seeing a fair bit of Eredin - in my last game my opponent went first and played frost into an empty row. I played an Impera Brigade into it to pre-empt the Drowner but I wonder if that was really a good play. Seemed like a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing. I tried to wait for two weathers to appear before playing Vanhemar but I ended up clearing 2 x 1 with Emhyr bounce. Playing around weather always feels awkward. Lost a game to Spella'tael by five points earlier. I correctly identified the Farseers as prime targets and dealt with all three, and I even won R1 with a two card advantage. I forgot about the Protectors though, and they got me in the final round. Everything he played had a Quen shield, too, so I almost roped every turn trying to work out the best moves with what I had. I can see how Peter is an auto-win against this deck, but what can I do without him? Should I have extended R2 to try to get a Protector or two out of him?
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Oct 17, 2017 07:14
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Kalko posted:
I think in general if you are forcing your opponent to go down 2 cards for winning a round its a good play to just pass against first turn weather.
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Oct 17, 2017 19:20
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Kalko posted:Spy stuff The Emhyr version does leave you a bit more at the mercy of rng when it comes to Joachim. You can sometimes mitigate this by using Cantarella and then doing what I never do, which is actually remembering what card you put on the bottom. Try to thin as much as you can, and use Assire to replace a 9-point Brigade if you've used one. I wouldn't mulligan Emissaries in R1. Chaining them all out is cool, but having too few is much worse than having all of them in your hand. And 2 Enforcer / 2 Vicovaro / 3 Infiltrator seems like the proper mix In most of my games, I do end up using Emhyr to play Ceallach twice, although if you don't need the tempo, you should hold on to Emhyr as long as possible in case you get a chance to replay your opponent's silver spy. Against Spell ST, if you win R1 I think I would bleed R2 and try to take a short R3 with a Joachim power play. Spell ST can match your long round snowball potential but can disrupt your side of the board in ways you can't match.
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Oct 17, 2017 23:40
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Kalko posted:The Emhyr talk on the previous page has got me back to playing spies again, running with this mix. The first thing I noticed after playing so much Calveit is that it's harder to line up the Joachim/Nauzicaa Brigade combo because I can't be sure whether there are any silvers on top, but I wonder if that's just because I'm not thinning enough in R1. Yep, one of those important but never really taught edges in Gwent is knowing your wincon and how to prevent your opponents wincon. As a spy deck you are amazing in a long round with a well established board (multiple impera brigades or enforcers played so each additional spy generates a lot of synergy), and you are probably best in game in a very short round with the famous Joachim-Nauzica finisher. Anything in between can be problematic though. Like you guessed, big shielded DB Protectors are the win condition for Spell'a'spell. Farseers are their ticket to even get to the 3rd round. If you kill off their farseers early, they lack other good options to win an early round and will eventually have to play some Protectors to even reach round 3. Force them to play out as many of their Protectors as possible. In most matchups maximizing card advantage by dry-passing into the round 3 is the correct choice, but against Spell'a'spell you need to force out their Protectors at all costs. Either that or make sure you have a Infiltrator+Menno ready to go.
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Oct 18, 2017 02:09
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Thanks for the advice, guys. I'm sure I will have more questions soon enough - I only just learned why sometimes I would miss some Enforcer shots when pulling them out with Emissaries. It turns out that if you shoot the Emissary with the Enforcer you pulled from its trigger, the spy trigger shot from that Enforcer doesn't proc. Regarding decks and reading wincons, I'm finding as I rank up higher the pool of possible decks per leader is shrinking but I still get tripped up fairly often. Emhyr, Calveit, Dagon, and King Bran are probably the most predictable in the sense that I know exactly what bronzes they're running and I can guess half the silvers. I usually expect swarm from Foltest, but sometimes it's weather control and last night I lost a game because he was running Reaver Hunters. Reaver Hunters! Haven't seen them since last season. I've faced the Brouver Hoog deck that spawns those guys that hit every row for three a bunch of times, so naturally the first time I decided to start out by row stacking I got punished by a weird dwarf buff deck that happened to run Hailstorm (I don't think the bomber deck runs it?) I made a Queensguard player forfeit after my T1 play of sending his QGs back into his deck with Assire (seemed like an overreaction to me but I guess it was a strong play). Crach Swordsmen is one of the most fun decks to play against, whether it was with my Francesca deck that could move his guys around or with my Spies deck that let me block his damage triggers with my Emissaries. Knowing what's in your opponent's hand is a key element for success in any card game, but I have to say the strategizing in Gwent feels more rewarding than in any other game I've tried (though it's not hard to beat Hearthstone in that department). One time I was playing my ST deck against Henselt in R3 and we each still had three cards in hand; I activated Francesca and had to make a choice about what would win me the game. He had stacked three guys on the same row already, which had to be a telegraph for Commander's Horn. I picked Algais and stacked my last guys as well and I was able win the game with a slim margin. That felt good.
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Oct 18, 2017 11:13
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Kalko posted:The Emhyr talk on the previous page has got me back to playing spies again, running with this mix. The first thing I noticed after playing so much Calveit is that it's harder to line up the Joachim/Nauzicaa Brigade combo because I can't be sure whether there are any silvers on top, but I wonder if that's just because I'm not thinning enough in R1. I use Stefan over Royal Decree because the extra 12 points is nice and he's never a dead card. He's slower, but you can use Cant next turn to draw whatever you need or use him with Roach to get a solid 14 points on the board and then pass. Just don't Stefan if you still have emissaries to play that round because it's a waste. Only open with Stefan if you're going to Cant or pass immediately after. The other really nice thing about Stefan is that if you still have him round three (because you didn't need him to pull Menno or Rainfarn), he's great for putting that 9+ Nauzicaa on top of your deck.
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Oct 19, 2017 04:07
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Update : I swapped Royal Decree for Renew, Vanhemar for Iris, and one Infiltrator for a Nauzicaa Standard Bearer as my only weather tech. I figure Dagon doesn't spam a lot of weather and in the decks that do, one Vanhemar isn't enough anyway. Since replacing it I've managed to survive long gold weather rounds by bouncing it but I did have basically all of the NG value bronzes each time. Haven't really played enough games to recommend it generally but it's working out alright so far. Iris has been a major benefit to the deck. Having that one extra big value play has won a lot of games that drawing Vanhemar would have lost, and the NG Spies package has particularly good support for her. And Renew just adds a lot of consistency because each of the three golds (Menno/Rainfarn/Leo) are always great value plays. I just made it to 19, winning against an Eredin that played Woodland Spirit and Yennefer in a short R3. He used Caretaker to remove the spy status from Iris but sadly for him, Menno deals four damage regardless. Just 250 points to go...
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Oct 22, 2017 06:17
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I know Henselt machines is a pretty inconsistent deck and a poor choice competitively but my god when it all comes together it's so satisfying. Just obliterating the enemy with mass ballista fire will never not be amazing, especially when you turn around a huge point deficit. So powerful against decks that rely on lots of small cards like some monsters setups. You're kind of hosed if you don't get at least one ballista and one kaedweni siege support in your hand though.
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Oct 23, 2017 01:38
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My problem with it was that it was always all in. If you try to half rear end your siege support and machine usage, you get bled out and lose later rounds. If you go high tempo and crush them out of the first round, you just have nothing left for later rounds anyways.
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Oct 23, 2017 04:07
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Yeah, I thought I might try and solve that with witchers for a r3 finisher, which went ok, and bloody baron, which went much worse. I still love the deck's explosive plays, but if I were aiming to grind ranks, it would perhaps not be my choice.
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Oct 23, 2017 04:23
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It's a bad deck, but it's fun to combo Foltest with PFInfantry and Thunderbolt Potions.
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Oct 23, 2017 23:00
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when is end of season? end of the month?
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Oct 23, 2017 23:03
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welp, got my lvl 20, don't think i'm gonna try to push for GM. patch please!
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Oct 24, 2017 15:53
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I guess my interest in this game died with gold immunity. Turns out I need more dramatic plays to have fun in a card game... gaining extremely incremental advantage for 15 turns isn't stimulating enough for me I guess.
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Oct 24, 2017 17:04
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No Wave posted:I guess my interest in this game died with gold immunity. I think you're playing the wrong decks then, things like monster board flood or nilfgaard fringilla bamboozle do extremely flashy plays.
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Oct 26, 2017 10:35
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I am like 100 points away from rank 20, struggling a bit with Nilfgaard spies (calveit). I will see if I can hit 20 before the reset.
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Oct 26, 2017 10:41
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Compared to 20, getting to 21 is turning out to be a colossal pain in the dick. My winrate tanks the moment I get to about 4300 
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Oct 26, 2017 13:43
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Is Dagon basically an auto-lose as Nilfgaard spies? It's as simple as dropping a Woodland Spirit and that's it, R1 goes to him.
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Oct 26, 2017 18:38
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Azran posted:Is Dagon basically an auto-lose as Nilfgaard spies? It's as simple as dropping a Woodland Spirit and that's it, R1 goes to him. Dagon isn't particularly high tempo though. Spirits is usually their biggest play and if they use it round one, they don't have it later. It's a rough match up for sure, but if you have your imperas set up you can often out power weather. I like to keep Cantarella or another big spy (use infiltrators) on their board so that I always have the threat of a huge Menno play even if I don't use it. Emhyr is amazingly useful against weather because you can get great 7+whatever tempo plays and then bounce whatever unit has been taking all the fog ticks. Emhyr+ Menno hitting a Cantarella and bouncing a two point unit is a 24 point play (28 if it pulls roach). If you can play cant early round one when they don't have tempo yet, it gives you more control over the game because you'll have enough power to win a card down if they pass early and if they go for a longer round or play their power cards, you can always just pass. Rainfarn is an amazing finisher so long early rounds are usually good for you.
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Oct 26, 2017 23:12
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every self-respecting Dagon deck runs renew for the res on WS or yennefer on 2nd or 3rd round so
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Oct 26, 2017 23:14
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General Morden posted:every self-respecting Dagon deck runs renew for the res on WS or yennefer on 2nd or 3rd round so I know. I ain't saying it's easy, but Menno and rainfarn can match the power of two woodlands. The real issue seems to be getting your timing right so that you can maximize the impact of your imperas without taking too much damage from weather/yen etc. This is why I think Emhyr is better in the matchup and running Cahir isn't bad. They can give you big tempo swings while also mitigating slow damage.
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Oct 27, 2017 01:15
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I'm trying for 20 as well (Emhyr) and seeing a lot more Dagon the closer I get. I can handle the weather, it's the swarm that usually gets me. I've been thinking of subbing Vanhemar back in to handle that, or maybe even Yennefer. If you run Yen for anti-swarm, though, do you try to time it so you drop her before they drop theirs, or do you drop it afterwards to negate their use? I can see how dropping it directly after they play Woodland Spirit eliminates a few bodies, but you never know if they have the fire elemental guy or if they've saved a harpy or something. I like the idea of Cahir for catching spies after you've used Emhyr, but that's kind of an edge case. I can see how he has generally good value but the only gold I would swap it for would be Renew, and while Renew is sometimes a dead draw, at other times it delivers a win right into my lap. I guess this is the eternal dilemma; too many great golds (and silvers) competing for limited slots.
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Oct 27, 2017 04:15
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Reached rank 13 which was my goal for this season. Now to wait for new season & patch for the grand keg openings. Went 24-3 this season with Emhyr spies deck but I'm perpetually stuck at low-mid ranks because I find Gwent enjoyable in smaller doses, like occassionally doing the 3-daily quest. Also I assume everyone's heard that there will be a halloween event (Saovine), more info about that and the 20-ish new cards will be in a dev stream on Monday.
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Oct 28, 2017 09:04
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Trogdos! posted:Reached rank 13 which was my goal for this season. Now to wait for new season & patch for the grand keg openings. Went 24-3 this season with Emhyr spies deck but I'm perpetually stuck at low-mid ranks because I find Gwent enjoyable in smaller doses, like occassionally doing the 3-daily quest. This makes me feel better about still being a hair below 19. Thanks.
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Oct 28, 2017 10:01
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Dagon loving HATES redanian knights though and I absolutely love the feeling of forcing impenetrable fog on a crowded row to backfire. Shame most higher rank players realise this and use biting frost instead. Also kind of wish there weren't so many flexible units. Sure, some make sense, but I can apparently put ballistas in close quarters?
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Oct 28, 2017 18:06
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Trogdos! posted:Reached rank 13 which was my goal for this season. Now to wait for new season & patch for the grand keg openings. Went 24-3 this season with Emhyr spies deck but I'm perpetually stuck at low-mid ranks because I find Gwent enjoyable in smaller doses, like occassionally doing the 3-daily quest. I'm also a filthy casual. Got into the season super late, pretty much only did dailies every couple of days, but I managed to get 16.
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Oct 29, 2017 03:31
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Well I just abandoned my climb to 20 due to lack of time. I thought I'd reached it the previous season with NG but my profile says my max is 19, so that's where it's staying for now. I managed to maintain a 56% win rate with Emhyr Spies over 70 games (ie. from when I first installed GwentUp) and I think my highest rank was about 4100. I tended to only play enough games most days to get the 100 ore reward and I really underestimated how long it would take to get 20 (I can't imagine the slog that must be 21!) In hindsight, I should have modified my deck more often, changing up my silvers at least to fit what I was seeing on a day to day basis. One day would be heavy Dagon, but today I hardly saw any, instead a lot of Spella'tael and that new dwarf movement deck. I swapped Roach and Assire out for Auckes and Iris, and swapped Renew for Yennefer, who I really started to like in a bunch of match-ups (despite only having one Dagon game all day, which I won thanks to her). I stuck with Spies because I didn't want to have to go through the process of relearning a new deck and all the nuances of it this late in the season. I'm familiar with all the netdecks and I watch streamers pretty often during lunch at work, so I feel like my game knowledge is about as good as it can be. Where I fall down is not taking enough time for my turns. There were more than a few games where if I'd sequenced the last few plays in R3 a different way I would have won, and it only occurred to me a minute or so after the game ended. I also often feel like a lot of my early round plays could be better, but it's very hard to unravel a game's sequence when reflecting on it later to work out whether a different order of events or a different card played would have mattered. I read a few 'guides' on various netdecks for NG earlier just to brush up on what these super successful 4500+ 65% winrate people say about their decks, and one guy said you should drop Cantarella on T1 if you lose the flip. Is that really a good play? I can sort of see it, and I tried it a few times, but I found it hard to judge whether it was really giving me an advantage (nobody open passed when I did it, and most played their own spy, which I then used Emhyr on, kind of on autopilot). At least I'll have a LOT of kegs to open in a couple of days, and I look forward to seeing how Dagon rises to the top of the meta once again.
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Oct 29, 2017 08:16
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I think using Emhyr on a spy is almost never correct. Spies are playable cards at 12 str - are they playable at 24 str?
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Oct 29, 2017 13:13
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